Bruce Perens on the Status of Open Source 241
Lars Lehtonen writes to tell us that Bruce Perens has posted the text of his LinuxWorld press conference. In his talk he takes a look at many of the hot topics surrounding the open source community including ODF, NTP vs RIM, and GPLv3. From the article: "It's interesting to note that Jack Abramoff, the lobbyist implicated in scandal with Republican Tom Delay, was employed by Bill Gates' dad's law firm "Preston Gates", a political proxy for Microsoft. Microsoft succeeded in lobbying both Republicans and Democrats to oppose ODF."
bipartisan scandal (Score:2, Informative)
Even the Minority leader Harry Reid was a big beneficiary of cash payments by clients of Jack Abrahamoff!
No It's Not Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
And this means what, exactly? Abramoff pleaded guilty to a variety of charges, but didn't have much of anything to do with Microsoft or ODF.
This seem to be a nice set of coincidences, but nothing more. If you are going to allege something sinister, please do it with evidence or proof. Throwing a bunch of random things out doesn't really mean much to anybody but gullible leftist slashbot.
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:4, Interesting)
Not much yet. It's just a set of dots which, if they could be connected, would make a very interesting picture indeed. But I agree, the dots haven't been connected. Yet.
Abramoff pleaded guilty to a variety of charges, but didn't have much of anything to do with Microsoft or ODF.
Doesn't mean a thing.
The way this works is, the prosecutor targets a sleazeball who's got connections. He puts together a portfolio of charges on him that, if half of them were proved, would put Mr. Sleaze in jail for the half life of a proton. In exchange for only having to endure being sodomized for three or four years, Mr. Sleaze agrees to hand the prosecutor the ends of all the webs he's been holding.
Microsoft and the Gates family may be on the other end of one of those threads. Or they may not; or even if they are it may not in the prosecutor's view be the best place to start. The prosecutor might also decide to make examples of one or two individuals and leave it at that.
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Schrodinger's Sleaze?
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is why it's rather worrysome to see a state killing people.
Mistaking "interesting" for "suspicious". (Score:2)
But it's certainly still interesting, at least to me. If nothing else because it demonstrates once again exactly how small the pool of actually empowered people in America is.
Re:Mistaking "interesting" for "suspicious". (Score:5, Interesting)
Bruce
Re:Mistaking "interesting" for "suspicious". (Score:4, Funny)
I want people to look into this stuff and find more evidence. I also want people to understand that we are touching the highest level of politics. I understand that some of this will only hit blogs, because it's less substantiated. I can deal with that that without making X-files out of it.
Bruce
Re:Mistaking "interesting" for "suspicious". (Score:2)
I don't mean to nitpick, but when you say you are "more balanced" because you are married and have a kid, you seem to imply that someone without a kid and not married is somehow "imbalanced". I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but that statement can be easily misconstrued. Plenty of people are lacking "balance" that are married and have kids, just as single people without kids are as well.
Re:Mistaking "interesting" for "suspicious". (Score:5, Interesting)
For me, it used to be that Open Source was #1. For Richard, Free Software always will be. For me now, being a dad is #1. And I find that I can look at Open Source with more objectivity because of this.
Bruce
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Those aren't random facts. That's not a coincidence. Those are leads. When we talk about them m
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
Bruce
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
The Watergate crowd seems to have only recently gotten the hang of exploiting Christianity. We're
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
It was nice when we could just have a discussion.
Bruce
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
Who do you call when you can't trust the moderators...
Me, I'm calling the A-Team *que A-Team theme song*
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
We think we learned about metamods, but Slashdot's SW doesn't protect from the anonymous TrollMod. The metamods would be a lot more powerful if some social circuits were closed with a "web of trust" more than the current haphazard system.
Meanwhile, I personally favor extreme politeness until betrayed even a little bit anon
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
It was nice when you weren't automatically assigned the role of conspirator just because you didn't believe in a conspiracy.
I shouldn't have to provide definitive proof against a conspiracy in order to engage in this discussion. But until I prove the negative, I'm considered a "substance-free objection-for-its-sake" poster. Until I can prove that a Microsoft/Abramoff/Republican conspiracy to destroy Free Software does not exist, I'm just a ratfucker.
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
I'm especially insp
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
In which I summarized that the astroturf ratfucking we're discussing follows the justified accusation that Republican Abramoff worked for Bill Gates II to help Microsoft get political favors. We're not talking about software patents in this subthread so much as the Abramoff Republican bribery/favors network serving Microsoft. So we're talking about a Re
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
One thing I've noticed is they tend to include subtle but important misdirections. The first two sentences in the post under discussion have one. It's kinda Reaganesque *dons flame retardant suit*
SB
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
So in other words, if we don't believe in the big Microsoft/Abramoff/Republican conspiracy, then we're astroturfing? I think your paranoia is eating away at your rationality.
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
70% Insightful
30% Overrated
Abramoff's TrollMod minions don't want us talking about the White House bed he shares with Gates, because that's us working together to connect the dots by finding more evidence and logical connections.
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:3)
Hm, do we have no discovery process since Abramoff plead guilty? In that case we may never know what he was talking about. But he was working for Gates. Did he take a bullet for his boss by pleaing guilty?
Bruce
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:3, Interesting)
I Would take that as a place where facts counts for more than suspicion.
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems to me that, based on the amount of money spent on lobbying by Microsoft (some $360,000) they didn't hire abramhoff for much. They're well below average for abramhoff's clients, even though they were the #1 contributor to campaign funds.
Microsoft learned back in the 90's that if you don't contribute to politicians funds, you have almost no voice on capital hill. Since then, they've been pretty strong in contributing to various campaigns, but of a largely bi-partison nature.
Given the small amount of money spent on abramhoff, it seems unlikely that they hired him for much of anything serious.
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
I don't understand why you felt the need to try and lie about such an easily verified fact.
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
Bruce
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
it did strike me odd how *incredibly* fast everything was tidied up with a guilty plea in this case. my money was on a convenient stabbing in a holding cell, but this would have been second.
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:2)
what the fuck was abramoff doing for microsoft? mowing the grounds of the redmond campus?
Re:No It's Not Interesting (Score:5, Informative)
Bruce
Desktop Linux (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Desktop Linux (Score:4, Funny)
Don't be silly! 2002 was the year of desktop Linux. The vast majority of people are now happily using Linux on their desktop, and Microsoft is deparately trying to grab back market share with Vista. Plus, I've heard the new Apple computers will now dual boot to Linux. They have to, after all thats where all the applications are now. Windows, really is going to be relegated to controller applications for cell phones and CD players. Its days as a full-sized computer OS are numbered.
Oh... and Sony is going to buy Microsoft. I read it just today on Slashdot.
Re:Desktop Linux (Score:2)
hmm, for me, 2000 was the year of desktop linux.
Re:Desktop Linux (Score:2)
Re:Desktop Linux (Score:2)
Of course ! Like every other year !
Re:Desktop Linux (Score:3, Interesting)
Bruce
Re:Desktop Linux (Score:2)
Re:For me it is (Score:2)
Don't forget serial killers (Score:2, Funny)
This is nothing but FUD that plays right into the scandal of the day. Perens needs to provide some proof that Abramoff was directly involved in the ODF issue as part of a lobbying effort by Microsoft, Gate's dad or the Easter Bunny. Otherwise I'd say he needs to keep his conspiracy theories to himself.
Yeah, this is interesting... (Score:3, Insightful)
What is interesting about it is the fact that it is lobbying. Lobbying is only organized, legalized bribery! Microsoft lobbies both Republicans and Democrats because it really doesn't care who is in power as long as they can buy the legislation they want. The fact that it was found illegal is something they will probably take care of with the next round of legislation (and partly paid for by Microsoft along with all other companies looking for a special favor).
Republican, Democrat, who cares? What we must get rid of is the entire idea of "pay for legislation"!
Re:Yeah, this is interesting... (Score:2)
Abramoff got $$$ from patent profiteers too (Score:2)
Oh, did I say "companies like"? Oops, no, just eLott
Re:Yeah, this is interesting... (Score:2, Interesting)
Perverse though it may be, lobbyists are one
Re:Yeah, this is interesting... (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand, the rights granted to corporate entities are not enshrined in the Constitution: they are of much more recent vintage. If those were revoked or severely restricted, problems with undue influence in government might improve substantially. In any event, we aren't talking about "redress of grievances", in the sense that a organization is being unfairly impacted by the law. We ar
Re:Yeah, this is interesting... (Score:2)
But not all lobbying is bad, even if backed by corporate money. Businesses do have a legitimate interest in getting their concerns before congress, and if a lobbyist is the only way to do it, then that's what they have to do. We wouldn't need lobbying in a fair world, but thi
Re:Yeah, this is interesting... (Score:2)
You imply that lobbying is the only way for a business to address its concerns to congress. That is certainly NOT the case. Lobbying is a way for a business to press its concerns above those of the common people that can't afford to spend that money bribing their representative (or senator).
There is nothing
Re:Did you really think the U.S. was a Democracy? (Score:2)
Just voting isn't going to help unless there is a candidate who has taken a position on the issue, and those are hard to find. More useful would be to become active in the nominating process to get a supportive candidate on the ballot. You better make sure he's a true believer before you put a lot of effort into his campaign though, or he's likely to change his mind later when someone outbids you.
Look what happened to the Republican's "Contract
Big cheese, fatly melting (Score:4, Insightful)
We are given some rather improbable conspiracy theory around the ODF affair, a long wail about software patents, a few digs at Microsoft, some very tentative ideas about DRM and a slapdown of Linus Torvalds, something that now seems almost obligatory every time the big cheeses of the Linux world open their mouth. I wonder why they feel they have to run Torvalds down. Are they worried they won't be seen as following the correct right-on line and might be made to stand on their own in the playground? Frightened, perhaps, that Big Richard Stallman will say they are sissies and chuck them out of his gang? Whatever the reason it comes over as pretty darn unedifying.
Articles about how awful the patent system is are ten a penny. What is very hard to find are folks who have thought this one through, have some cogent and realistic proposals, and who are prepared to build support for change among those in a position to change things. Anyway, it doesn't sound as if Mr Perens will be one. Big cheese massage sounds more his gig.
Re:Big cheese, fatly melting (Score:3)
(1) Bruce Perens' group claims that Linux might violate many Microsoft patents.
(2) Steve Ballmer cites Perens' claim about Linux violating Microsoft patents
(3) Perens says "SEE? Ballmer's out to get us!"
Perens might not be helping Linux adoption, he's doing wonders for worldwide FUD production.
Re:Big cheese, fatly melting (Score:2)
Re:Big cheese, fatly melting (Score:4, Insightful)
Yep, everyone has one. Here is mine - copied from my blog http://jambarama.blogspot.com./ [jambarama.blogspot.com] As a warning it is long (really long) but I really put a lot of thought into this and I think I've proposed some good realistic solutions (not the "eliminate all patents" bull that gets posted to
D'uh: improving the patent system (Score:2)
Now strengthening the system by making what is patented sounds sensible. However this would lower the "success" metrics of patents/year and actually might allow non-US companies to sell innovative p
Re:Big cheese, fatly melting (Score:2)
A dog that sick, the only mercy is to shoot it quickly.
Abramoff (Score:2, Insightful)
And NO, kids, it was not business as usual. This is what happens when one party takes over everything, and that party only represents moneyed interests.
Re:Abramoff (Score:2)
Slightly OT, but how do you know that? For one thing, both parties - I daresay the vast majority of politicians primarily represent moneyed interests. What scares the hell out of me isn't what Abramoff did, but the idea that there may be hundred more like him in Washington right now.
Re:Abramoff (Score:2)
I'm scared there may be more like Abramoff, and I'm pissed nobody is doing anything about it.
The hesitation to address the issues speaks more about their guilt than any other evidence.
Re:Abramoff (Score:3, Interesting)
Wird fact I read: Abramoff wrote "Red Scorpion", a movie produced basically by the South African secret service and the CIA. Interesting stuff: seems Abramoff got his start working as a factotum for the South Africa
knows his stuff (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:knows his stuff (Score:2)
Bruce
Re:knows his stuff (Score:2)
Bruce
Conspiracy theory (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously, Mr. Bruce Perens couldn't have written a better script for Syriana II. I'll be blunt. ODF and GNUv3 rabbit hole doesn't go any deeper than the usual Bostonian political scuffle. Given enough spare time to ponder about politics, even Boston's Big-Dig project could be tided to Microsoft somehow.
C'mon. We all know Microsoft's deep pocket reaches everyone, but the speculation forgets to mention that Open Source isn
Re:Conspiracy theory (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, they could do a pretty decent job of stopping you from distributing it or using it anywhere that is publicly visible. Now, the law doesn't stop meth labs, but I don't want those who choose to develop or use Free Software to have to operate like a meth lab.
It used to be that people thought that the law had no real mechanism that could touch the Internet. Enough people like Skylarov have gone to jail for writing the wrong software or have had their net worth made negative through the need to mount a legal defense against an unjust civil or criminal claim. I don't want Tridge or Jeremy Allison to go to jail for reverse-engineering Windows file and printer sharing or infringing on some improperly-granted patent. I don't want to go to jail for using it.
Bruce
Another example, better than meth labs. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Conspiracy theory (Score:2)
Someone with mod points mod this up.
Re:Conspiracy theory (Score:2)
He was the first to be prosecuted under US DMCA section 1201(b)(1)(A), prohibition on trafficking in a circumvention technology because FBI wasn't competent enough to know Sklyarov didn't own the software, but ElcomSoft did. Even Adobe realized the mistake later and asked for release of Sklyarov. But that is not to say that what ElcomSoft did was wrong. I am simply saying, Federal case against Sklyarov was dropped, and our lega
Amazing Spin. (Score:4, Interesting)
Who says that rate is slow? ODF is less than a year old. [wikipedia.org] Yet, two state governments have moved adopt it. Can you name any other technology state governments have adopted so quickly?
Let's look at what Peren is angry about again:
[Character Assasination via Boston Globe] ... Microsoft succeeded in lobbying both Republicans and Democrats to oppose ODF. ... There's a chilling effect that stems from the harassment of Quinn: other government CIOs are being scared away from the Open Format issue because now they know that Microsoft will do its best to end their careers if they even try.
That's hardly what you have charged.
I'd like to see you address any of that with more than insults and "say it aint so." The short of it is that M$ used it's money and influence to bamboozle decision makers, the public and other CTO's. The CTO's, who are more difficult to fool than the others, are being threatened. The facts of the case seem to support Perens on all of the above.
If you are not angry about the end of Quinn's career over file formats, you have not thought enough about it.
Re:Amazing Spin. (Score:2)
Repetition is not convincing. (Score:2)
Less insulting than "bitter and impatient" and redirected but still insulting.
this is politics, not Matrix. Quinn's getting the boot isn't some mighty act of evil genius, but rather piling BS that is going on in Boston's Politics as Usual.
More of the same, "Say it ain't so," and it's no harder to understand than it is likely. The CTO is not a political position. File formats are not the kinds of things politicians battle over because no one cares
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:5, Informative)
That, at least, puts him in the same category as most well-known F/OSS advocates. Apparently outspoken is the new sensible.
Why's he so famous in the Linux crowd?
He was project leader of Debian for a bit, and was the primary author of 'The Open Source Definition' (an obfuscated version of the Free Software Definition, based on the Debian version, but with more equivocation). For more information, see bhis bio [perens.com].
OSD pre-exists FSD (Score:3, Interesting)
Bruce
Re:OSD pre-exists FSD (Score:2)
Forks are inevitable
SB
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:5, Insightful)
Really, why is this troll modded up? How many slashdotters were project head of Debian or the first open source evangelist to work in top management at a multi-billion dollar company? You might not like perens' views, but he's a whole fuckload more qualified to make these kinds of statements than the average living-in-mom's-basement slashdotter.
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:3, Insightful)
So he's qualified to make statements about open source because... he has a long history of making statements about open source?
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:2)
Debian Election (Score:2)
Bruce
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:2)
He's the only person IN the open source movement, other than ESR...
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:2)
But, for a guy with all those qualifications, he sure does seem to talk out of his ass a lot. I would like to think that qualified people make qualified statements.
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:2)
Bruce
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:2)
Re:Where are the 20 books written by Perens? (Score:2)
Re:Conspiracy Theory 101 (Score:2)
Not at all.
ODF is important to MicroSoft.
MicroSoft has lots of money.
Money is important to Delay and Abramoff.
Therefore, ODF may be important to Delay and Abramoff.
It is not necessarily so. But is not silly, either.
Re:Bill Gates IS a Democrat (Score:2)
Re:STFU Bruce and write some code ...... (Score:5, Insightful)
I run Linux for four primary reasons:
1. I disagree with Microsoft's anti-customer policies as of late, including no de-activation, their suing of customers, and their DRM-infested media player
2. I believe Microsoft has been abusing their monopoly status, especially since SmartSuite and WordPerfect have been rendered impotent in the marketplace
3. because I like the KDE desktop far more than I like Explorer (tabbed file browsing is great. *nix shell scripting is undeniably superior to scripting on Windows and konsole is a wonderful console manager)
4. Everything, and I mean everything can be automated on Linux/Unix/UNIX where maintenance is concerned. and nearly all maintenance can be performed live. Unix doesn't have to play the "let's redefine the term 'downtime'" game
With that said, I'm interested in what Microsoft is doing with their Linux lab. I'd be interested to see whether they release Visual Studio (Kdevelop is great, but it's no comparison to Microsoft's IDE) and Microsoft Office for Linux. I'm interested in watching the price of Microsoft Office now that OpenOffice is nipping at Microsoft Office's heels in terms of usability/functionality. I'm interested in whether or not Microsoft adjusts their marketing to indicate true TCO of each environment. I'm interested in what Monad has to offer. I'm interested in whether or not I'll be able to watch HD-DVD and Blu-Ray media at FULL resolution on my 2048x1536 CRT displays, or if I will have to downgrade to lower-resolution LCD screens.
Believe me, although some of us hate Microsoft's current actions, we actually view software products as tools, and Linux is not the BFH that is right for all problems.
Re:STFU Bruce and write some code ...... (Score:2)
Re:STFU Bruce and write some code ...... (Score:2)
Re:STFU Bruce and write some code ...... (Score:2)
I've seen this posted many times and I wonder why it has become such a catchphrase. I use Linux because I LIKE Linux. I used Windows for years before and I just plain like Linux better. I think that the majority of Linux users would say the same. It's the users who don't like Linux that keep advancing that meme.
Re:STFU Bruce and write some code ...... (Score:2)
1.
2.
3.
4.
Re:STFU Bruce and write some code ...... (Score:3, Funny)
Bruce
Re:STFU Bruce and write some code ...... (Score:2)
The only OEM Linux distros with a toe-hold in big box retail support DRM because home users want media content from the major providers. Subscription radio. Online rental and sales.
Not everyone has the time or patience to troll the P2P nets for an amateur's mp3 rips. Not when they can get flat-fee rental access to millions of licensed tracks.
2. I be
Re:STFU Bruce and write some code ...... (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's run through it:
- We used to run asp.net - it is slower/less reponsive and more memory intensive than LAMP
- Licensing - we spent money on exchange and SQL server but will be saving the money on upgrades. We develop solutions for SQL Server for clients who want Windows, but since we've removed SQL Server from production and now use it only for development, future upgrades (MySQL and Postgres) will be - yep, the cost
Because there is a connection (Score:3, Informative)
IPI represents MS interests at WIPO [ipblog.org] (euphemism for insults against NGOs), recently wanted to join the MS-EU antitrust case [fsfe.org]. This was rejected by the EU court of Justice for good reasons. See curia.eu.int [eu.int]
Further MS pays ACT, an SME association astroturf w
Re:ODF (Score:3, Funny)
Re:is this really necessary? (Score:2, Funny)
Hang on, let me see if I can go from -1 redundant to +5 funny...
(now watch as I get modded redundant...)
Re:is this really necessary? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Jack Abramoff? (Score:2, Funny)