Reflections on the Holy Trinity 139
1up has a piece looking at gaming's future by reflecting on gaming's past. What do the launches of older systems teach us to expect from the PS3's ... eventual debut. From the article: "Shouts of 'Dreamcast' ... fall a little flat when you consider that Dreamcast was more of a last-ditch attempt from a company that hadn't turned a profit in 10 years. Microsoft isn't bowing out anytime soon, which means that being out in front will probably be an advantage -- by the time Sony launches, the 360 will be over the launch hiccups and rolling with a steady stream of new software. On the other hand, if Blu-ray is as big for the PS3 as DVD was for the PS2, Microsoft could find itself technologically inferior -- a direct consequence of its rush to market. "
I don't care... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I don't care... (Score:2)
Re:I don't care... (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't get me wrong. The Dreamcast look beautiful. I still play some games on it today: Crazy Taxi, Soul Calibur, Sonic, etc. And I maintain it still looks better than the PS2.
However, it's falls slightly behind XBox and GameCube as far as graphics go. It's not way behind, but still not up to their looks/performance.
And the
Re:I don't care... (Score:2)
Re:I don't care... (Score:2, Insightful)
RE4... (Score:2)
Re:RE4... (Score:2)
Re:I don't care... (Score:2)
Re:I don't care... (Score:2)
Re:I don't care... (Score:3, Insightful)
Reminds me of the Amiga. Technically superior in almost every way to it's peers, but poorly handled by the owning company.
I wasted nearly 10 years of my life being an Amiga bigot. Then I realized the thing that matters more is availability and cost of software. I jumped to the Wintel platform in '97 and haven't looked back.
The real holy trinity (Score:1)
Re:The real holy trinity (Score:1)
Atari, Coleco, Commadore
Re:The REAL holy trinity (Score:2, Funny)
BAM!
Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:4, Insightful)
While it is true that history tends to repeat itself, every time when someone tries to divine the future from the past they make the same fatal mistake that makes their predictions totally useless. They simply take into account too short section of the past, quite often only few years, instead of few centuries and their predictions are directed on a too close future, often few months or years rather than decades. Anyway, I don't think this trend is going to stop anytime soon and so here we go with yet another useless prediction.
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:4, Insightful)
But let's look at recent history.
Sony's released the highly anticipated PS2 with a rather meager launch lineup, and the system took off like a juggernaught after a while. The PSP was launched with much anticipation and we haven't seen too much of it since then. It is still there, and it isn't dead, but it wasn't the huge hit many expected it to be. The games aren't helping. (I must admit, I expected the system to take off after GTA: LCS came out and it didn't happen).
Microsoft launched the XBox among much skepticism and speculation that it was more powerful, and the system did fine (not financially, but in general). They launched the 360 to skepticism and speculation that it was more powerful, and is doing fine.
Nintendo launched the GameCube cheap, and it did very well. They launched the DS (which many people thought would be the next VirtualBoy, which was a great system with fantastic games, BTW) and after a short time without many games it has been picking up steam ever since. The system is HUGE in Japan and popular here in the states. Games are all over the map from traditional to experimental and from hard-core to "non-gamer".
Expect MS and Sony to be much like the last generation. Sony may falter some, the XBox may do better. The Revolution is the wild card. It will either be much like the 'Cube (a great system that is beloved by owners but not big like the PS2) or it will take off like the NES did leaving competitors in it's dust. Either way, I'll be happy.
I can't wait for the Rev, and I can't wait for GDC and E3 when we should find out more about all the systems.
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:1)
What are these great games you, I think, are speaking of?
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:2)
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:1)
Otherwise, that was a list of 4 games and I contend that none of them really are excellent games. In the context of history, they're hard games to judge since the system sold so poorly and thus a consensus opinion is difficult to reach. How do you position yourself in relation to the VB unit? I was never able to find a position that didn't bother my neck over an extended period of play.
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:2)
The biggest problem with the Virtual Boy was that it wasn't the GameBoy Color. Everyone was expecting the GameBoy Color and here comes Nintendo with this system that only shows red and isn't portable (they shouldn't have used "Boy" in the name, that implied portability). It was never going to be huge, but it could have done quite a bit better than it did.
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:1)
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:1)
What is your sample size for this supposed link between a lack of calibration and headaches?
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:1)
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft launched the XBox among much skepticism and speculation that
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:2)
As for the XBox doing great, I think that it is for all that it could be. There were so many predictions that the XBox would be stillborn or never catch on. It has mindshare up there with Playstation, and has become the new "Nintendo" that everyone uses to talk about videogames (you used to play Nintendo, then you played Play
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:2)
Is the XBox the best system of the current generation? I'd say no. I'd say that would be the 'Cube but there are many who would argue that the best was the PS2.
The Dreamcast was a very nice system too, but it got slaughtered in the states, rightfully or not.
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:2)
Either you are amazingly bad at math or you are just making crap up. The Xbox had shipped more than 25 million units, the last time I saw figures. That would mean the PS2 has sold more than 250 million units. Last time I heard they had shipped 100 million units. Yeah, the PS2 sold a lot better than the 360, but don't just make up numbers.
So, your analysis that Sony will falter and Microsoft will do better seems to not be
Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world (Score:1)
You obviously never shopped for PSX games around the time of the PS2 launch. It had the largest library at launch time of any system in history.
Irony (Score:1)
Hindsight... (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, I'm sure Sega was thinking that when they designed it... "Well, we're done for. Let's blow a whole bunch of money on one last failed console before closing the doors."
Re:Hindsight... (Score:1)
Pfft. (Score:1)
Where's the holy trinity? Or is that just a sensationalist headline again?
Doh!
Re:Pfft. (Score:1)
Re:Pfft. (Score:1)
C'mon, you know the Holy trinity.. (Score:1)
Yeah, I'd rather have a Dreamcast than a Nintendo Revolution anyday.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:2, Insightful)
What market are you referring to? Because I don't know anyone in my circle of friends, online and off, that could care less about the Rev. Maybe I have a biased circle, but all current consoles are represented.
I bought a Cube for RE4, which was totally worth $100+game. Outside of that, as a "mature" gamer, I could pass on the entire game library other than RE4.
Are people really itching to play NES games that badly? It seems to me
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1)
As a child of the original Nintendo revolution, I get the appeal, I'm just not in that place any more. I can't get excited about collecting coins with a plumber to save the princess anymore.
What do you think the possibility is of Oblivion or the next GTA coming out on the Rev if it's developed for the 360/PS3 crowd? Considering the performance delta this time around, I get the feeling that 3 platform releases are going to be shit this time around. E
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1)
"ask anybody out there"
"The simple fact is"
I love how this smacks of credibility =)
Which analysts agree that HDTV isn't making any headway? All the research I've seen suggests that HDTV adoption is still pretty brisk. The cost difference is not what it used to be, and people tend to think of their television as the hub of their entertainment area. Is HDTV here in force right now? Well, no. But a company that hopes to make money for the average console cycle would likely try to predic
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:2)
this guy has exposed drywall and tattered cloth as doors. But what he DOES have
is a PS2, a great stereo, and a HUGE TV that takes up half of the room. Video
games are now a part of the culture, the street culture especially, and believe that
when you go into the 'hood' they'll have hdtv and a ps3 aNd a 360. The console market
is NOT the PC gamer market, and price is not the obstacle.
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1)
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1)
While I played supernintendo at my friend's house, it just never made it on my 'to do' list. The nintendo 64 was ass compared to it's competitors. While churning out a non-stop collection of consoles for 8 year olds, Nintendo never "got it" when
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, in my circle of friends, I don't know anyone who's interested in a next-gen console. Period.
XBox360 has no games I'm interested in. PS3 has no games - at all, that I've heard of. (Other than random speculation that Series X+1 will be on it.) Revolution has no games - at all, that I've heard of. Not even speculation on sequels.
So, based on that quicky-analysis, I can come up with absolutely no reason why I'd want to get a next generation console.
Yet.
That can all change. But it all dep
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1)
If no one in your circle is interested in next-gen consoles, are any of your friends gamers?
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:2)
Define "interested." Sure, I think most of us would like information on the next-gen consoles.
But there's been no announcement yet about games on the PS3 or Revolution that would make me - or anyone I know - eager to purchase either console. There's just not enough information about them yet. I don't think you need to have already decided on a next-gen console to be considered a gamer.
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1)
You were the one that said none of your friends are interested in any next-gen consoles.
I'm declaring shenanigans on your comment. I think all your friends are interested in next-gen consoles. I wasn't implying that you had to buy or preorder one in order to be "interested". If you're a console gamer, chances are that you WILL own a next-gen console at some point.
There's the implication in some of these posts that MS, Sony and Nintendo are all so far off the mark that the
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:2)
Well I can tell you what market, me for one. I'm barely a gamer at all nowadays. I mooch times off my friends' machines for what console gaming I'm interested in, but haven't actually owned one myself since the old 2600 I had as a kid. I've been planning on picking up a used Xbox at some point,
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1)
I own an Xbox, 360 and a GameCube. If the 360 hadn't come out when it did, I probably would have bought a second-hand PS2 just to play God of War. I'm definitely not console-biased.
I just don't see the Rev biting into the marketshare for the PS3/360. The kid-friendly outlook has made them money, wh
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:2)
Yes, you could. As an alternative, you might also want to consider picking up some of the older A-list Nintendo exclusives dirt cheap. Some day (once you outgrow your 'maturity') you might be grateful for the hours of fun you've afforded yourself. This isn't a knock on you or those who consider themselves to be mature gamers. Rather, it's just an oft repeated word of advice related to how tastes change over time
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1)
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:2)
Crash of '81 (Score:3, Insightful)
I do, but I don't think you do.
None of the current hardware makers made it out. Only new console makers that came into the market after the crash did well.
So if history repeats itself, how does that help Nintendo?
If history repeats itself, then it's more likly that the Phantom will come out on top rather than the Revolution
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1)
umm... no. People mostly want a system that has some sort of standard for it's games (so that they can be easily pirated and/or extended... mostly the first), like CD and DVDs, has nice g
'Forgot one big reason (Score:2)
We'll have to see if this is a major problem over the lifespan of the Xbox, or just launch-day hiccups. If lots of people pick up high-def sets, this could be a big
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:1, Insightful)
I can see nothing positive about the future that faces the XBox 360, but the claims you are making here are so extreme... well, you're so optimistic about the PS3's situation that I can't help but think there's some wishful thinking going on here.
Can you actually demonstrate any of the following:
4) The defect rate is clearly massive no matter how hard Microsoft tries to spin the situation
Your source? All I've heard is anecdotal evidence from people on messag
Re:Course we can go another way (Score:2)
Why is Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD!) such a deal maker? (Score:5, Insightful)
When the PS2 hit, it revolutionized / popularized DVDs. Why? Because a DVD cost at worst $25 at the time, and that's a good cheap buy. Couple that with the value you get out of having a combo game system and DVD player (since DVD players were expensive to buy seperately) and that's a no brainer money saver.
But now, if you want to take advantage of Blu-Ray, you need a multi-thousand dollar television, and potentially more expensive movies. Which is NOT as much of a no-brainer as the PS2 was.
On top of all that, we're rapidly approaching the point where we've gone as high-def as we realistically NEED to go. For a lot of folks, standard DVD is "fine." The upgrade is too expensive and the reward too low when you've got a workable solution; this isn't like VHS tapes which could degrade over time, had blatantly inferior video quality, and interactive features. DVD has plenty going for it and all HD adds on top is more rez, which while nice, isn't important enough.
No. The video capability is not going to be what sells the PS3. It's a nice bonus but not as critical as the game library is at this point. (And given the 360's scrawny library, including unimpressive entries on the release chart, the PS3 has a good chance to sieze advantage...)
Why the blu-ray is a dealmaker: (Score:1, Interesting)
The blu-ray format allows vastly increased storage for games. This gives the PS3 a real and distinct advantage, because game developers-- who are already shipping multi-DVD games-- can just use their disc space frivolously. By the end of this game generation, the XBox 360 will have a ser
Re:Why the blu-ray is a dealmaker: (Score:2)
Re:Why the blu-ray is a dealmaker: (Score:1)
Re:Why the blu-ray is a dealmaker: (Score:2)
Re:Why the blu-ray is a dealmaker: (Score:1)
Another crucial factor is not the amount of data, but the data transfer rate.
The first-gen Blu-ray devices may not even equal the rates of the latest
generation of DVD's, and this may cripple the performance of some games.
Anyone have any hard numbers?
Re:Why is Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD!) such a deal maker? (Score:3, Interesting)
With the revolution this may not be a problem. But if Final Fantasy XII were made as an XBox 360 exclusive game, how many discs do you think it would be? The cinematics take up a lot of room. So do all those high resolution textures (and bump maps, and normal maps, and...). Don't forget all the character/enemy/scenery models. That is a ton of data, and having it all on one disc helps quite a bit.
That said, I don't think it will b
Re:Why is Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD!) such a deal maker? (Score:2)
Yes, high rez textures need more storage. How much, exactly? An existing DVD already holds multiple gigs of data. Assuming you aren't stuffing dozens of FMV sequences on there in high def format, it'll be enough. And arguably, why would you NEED FMV anymore, if you're supposedly knee deep in TEH NEXT GEN which has TEH PHOTOREALISTIK graphics?
You also need the man hours of work to fill that disk, to make that content. What's the one complaint coming out aboute very 3
Re:Why is Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD!) such a deal maker? (Score:2)
Re:Why is Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD!) such a deal maker? (Score:1)
In 2Q 2006, Blue-ray might not seem like much of an advantage.. but in 2009?
Sony has already announced that it will quit manufacturing CRT televisions.. there's not enough demand to make a profit on them. I don't think people are going to be buying anything less than HDTV in 2007,
Real Numbers (Score:1)
Sales of 360s have been falling each month. Last month sales are all the way down to 160k units. Sales of the PS2 were 300k.
To make that perfectly clear, Sony's six year old machine is outselling Microsoft's brand new console by almost 2 to 1.
The cries of the 360 being sold out everywhere just don't add up anymore. It was true back in December, less so in January, and by March 360s were in stock in all major retailers in the US. The local Walmart, BestBuy, and other
Re:Real Numbers (Score:1)
SWAG (Score:5, Funny)
I think for Microsoft, truly the third time is the charm. And the cool thing about my prediction is that it's as well reasoned as those put forth by this article's author and I just pulled it out of my ass.
Re:SWAG (Score:2)
Have you considered sending your ass' resume to 1up?
Re:SWAG (Score:2)
Attempt To Repeat History (Score:5, Informative)
I think the Xbox 360 launch pushed up the PS3 launch a year or even two ahead of where Sony wanted it to be. They really needed that time to get Blu-Ray established with movies and stand alone players. Then the PS3 would come along as a great game machine and a probably lower cost alternative to play Blu-Ray movies. Unfortunately, Microsoft has ruined that script. Now the Playstation 3 is going to have to live or die on gaming alone at launch, something that its predecessor would have had a hard time doing given the so so launch titles of that time (especially in Japan).
I'm not saying that Sony has no chance to prevail against the competition, only that their attempt to repeat history has failed. They might have been better served by a more Nintendo-like attitude of releasing things when they are ready rather than being too worried about the competition and building so much hype. Of course, Sony probably has a lot of reasons that they really can't wait, especially since the Playstation brand is basically carrying the company these days.
Re:Attempt To Repeat History (Score:1)
Re:Attempt To Repeat History (Score:2, Interesting)
Plus, u
Re:Attempt To Repeat History (Score:2)
Actually, I think they're trying to repeat history, but in reverse. They have an established game market. They want to establish an install base of Blu-Ray players, so that they can sell licenses to produce Blu-Ray content.
By the time the PS2 was released, DVD players were already an established market. The PS2 rode the demand for DVD players by offering something of added value above a normal DVD player (games) at a lower cost.
Blu-Ray has no real market at this point. Very few people are interested
Re:Attempt To Repeat History (Score:2)
The price point problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft has been losing money in their game business since the original XBox launch. Their stock has been flat for five years [yahoo.com], and the stockholders are starting to get annoyed with the money drain. Microsoft may at some point be pushed into "concentrating on their core business area". Losing money forever isn't a business.
Re:The price point problem (Score:1)
The Holy Trinity (Score:1)
Consoles are overrated...
article says no profit in 10 years? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:1)
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:1, Offtopic)
Which is what I first thought it would be about on reading the article
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:1, Offtopic)
Tank/Slower/Healer
Play Station (Score:3, Interesting)
Does the history of the Play(space)Station [wikipedia.org] make Nintendo the father and Sony the son?
Three buttons on the PlayStation controller are X, Square (a box), and Circle (which has 360 degrees). X, Box, 360. So do we have a holy ghost?
Re:Play Station (Score:2)
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:1)
Maybe not in the first 2/3 of the article...
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:1)
I'm gonna go ahead and say the PS3 is Jesus, because Sony's press reports lead me to believe the Cell processor will enable it to turn water into wine and walk on water.
And that makes Revolution the Holy Ghost - it will have no physical form, but will rather be the heart of gaming enjoyment that lives in each of us. (Which is unfortunate, because I was looking forward to some
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:2)
This holy trinity: (Score:1)
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:2)
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:2)
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:2, Funny)
Re:What holy trinity are we talking (Score:1)
A moderation for deliberately wrong stuff? Try "Troll".
Oh... wait... *head implodes*
:-)
Relaunch could do one thing (Score:1)
However, I think that is unlikely to actually happen. The relaunch will probably just add more features. Because this is Microsoft we're talking about.
To think there was a point at which I thought they might win this round...
Re:Xbox 360 Has No Viable Scenario Of Relevance (Score:1)
If you don't understand the reference... (Score:2)
Re:I think... (Score:1)