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Dungeon Masters in Cyberspace 119

The New York Times has a piece this afternoon about the launch of Dungeons and Dragons Online. They talk with some of the folks who made the game, and reflect on roleplaying's move from table-top to online spaces. From the article: "While players in most online games communicate by typing, Turbine has tried to enhance the in-person feel of D&D Online by building voice-chat software into the game so players can speak with one another using a microphone plugged into their computer. And while most video games try to adopt a cinematic mode of storytelling, D&D Online plainly reminds users that they are playing a computer approximation of a pen-and-paper game. During combat, an icon of a spinning 20-sided die appears in a corner of the screen, just as modern slot machines still show spinning reels even though a microchip has already decided if you've won the jackpot."
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Dungeon Masters in Cyberspace

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  • But these days, aspiring wizards, druids and paladins are more likely to click and type their way through the evil necromancer's tower rather than huddle around a table casting spells between grabbing bites of pizza. In recent years, millions of people have flocked to rich online games that let players express their inner warlock without leaving home.

    There's only one unique advantage of online play is when you don't have any friends. I really wanted to be into Dungeon & Dragons in the early 1980's, b
    • > There's only one unique advantage of online play is when you don't have any friends.

      Not true; there is also ease of access. Once you and all your friends are out in the real world with jobs and partners and all those things regular peopel do it's very hard to try and schedule a time to get together to gaming.

      MMORPGs let you jump in whenever it's convienient and play online with friends (both from the real-world and that you only know online) whenever it's convienient.

      I'd love to be able to play more t
      • Not true; there is also ease of access. Once you and all your friends are out in the real world with jobs and partners and all those things regular peopel do it's very hard to try and schedule a time to get together to gaming.

        This is why my group of friends has switched over to boardgames. We all really like playing D&D but it is too hard to get everyone together regularly to keep a campaign up and running.

        Therefore we switched to boardgames, there is no carry over from one session to the next and i

    • Finding other people to play pen-and-paper D&D is pretty easy if you don't live in some remote rural area. Gaming stores, the RPGA, local gaming organizations, and the Internet can help you find a bunch of people quite easily. I live in a small city, and there are dozens of groups playing D&D around here.

      No, the real problem is convenience. Playing online in your own home is a lot easier than gathering a bunch of people somewhere. You can playing online for half an hour if you like, but if you

    • But these days, aspiring wizards, druids and paladins

      Sorry buddy, they're not launching with my two favorite (core) classes: druids and monks. That gets a big laaaaaame from me. I doubt they'll ever have psionicists either, much less any of the other core psychic classes (soulknife would be way cool). I'll just keep playing my old favorites, like Diablo II or Neverwinter Nights.

  • They had an offer that if you pre-ordered from EBGames or GameStop, you'd get a pre-access key that would let you start playing now, a full 10 days before the game showed in stores.

    The offer was prominently displayed on the EBGames website, until last week, when they ran out of keys. They asked Turbine for some last Tues, and still haven't gotten them.

    In a moment of near-irrationality, I went to the EBGames site to buy the game, excited about playing early with people in the office that had also pre-ordered
    • Not exactly correct. The pre-order pack let you get in during the ending stages of the beta test for 10 days. It also let you start playing this past Friday instead of waiting until Tuesday (tomorrow) (or whenever you manage to pick up a copy of the full release game), which is only four days of early play, not 10. There was also a +1 amulet of natural armor for your character if you pre-ordered.

      I think the limit on pre-order keys was probably more based on an effort to manage and balance server populati
    • Unfortunately, in my book, Turbine is synonymous with faux pas. The first one's that come to mind is letting M$ distribute Asheron's Call, making it part of M$'s Gaming Zone, and licensing the developmental reigns to M$ for waaaaaaay too long.

      Then of course there was the release of Asheron's Call 2, which we're told is a completely different game then Asheron's Call, and is not meant to compete with it for customers. Nevermind the fact that the game never contained the features mentioned on it's box, web
    • I bought my copy of DDO early this morning (2 AM EST) and they e-mailed the headstart key to me within minutes. I was actually surpirsed they were still issuing them the day before the retail launch...
    • No. They ran out of pre-order keys a couple months ago, then got more from Turbine. Then they chewed through those in a couple weeks and got more, and on and on.

      The reason there was no pre-order offer on the 27th is because the game is officially released on the 28th.
  • by mooncaine ( 778422 ) on Monday February 27, 2006 @05:58PM (#14812570) Journal
    Their support pages say they have no plans to make a Mac version, so if you're a D&D fan who only uses Macs [or just prefer them], you're out of luck.
  • Personally, I found (yes, without playing) the descriptions of D&D Online to be lacking in the creativity and originality that makes the pen and paper game worth playing, and I was pleased to see that the article actually took some time to explore that. Frankly, I see nothing particularly creative about the new game. I look forward to future experiments in the field, but this just feels like a solid commercial product, nothing with soul. I'd love to see some software designed to help p&p gamers d
    • I did play it during the stress test 4 days. The article and the descriptions are much more exciting than the real thing. No surprise either, that those "screenshots" are the videos and artists' concepts, not the actual screens.

      I found the interface cumbersome, movement was difficult, it was difficult to keep track of quests, I strongly dislike the current ruleset (a dwarf paladin able to shoot a bow is wrong to me), and the ability to solo disappeared very quickly. The fact that in 12 hours of playing and

      • In The Hobbit, Thorin Oakenshield shoots a stag dead in the forest, and near the end of the book he shoots at a messenger and hits him right in the shield. He may not have been a Paladin, but he was certainly the fanatic of the bunch.
        • I truly enjoy all the Tolkien books, and yes, I recall those excerpts. I don't doubt that dwarves in many mythos use bows and are paladins.

          However, my point that I failed to elaborate is that I prefer the original (to me) 1980-ish rules and I've been very reluctant to accept the newer, more politically correct, anyone can do whatever they wish, ruleset.

          I wasn't opposing a dwarf being a paladin at all. I'm fairly certain they were the only other race besides humans that could be paladins. The paradoxes as

  • squeaky kid voice: "And I was like, so into it, ya know? We pwned that baby dragon like it was your little brother, hehehe. LOL"

    seasoned adventurer voice: "Are you supposed to say LOL or just laugh?"

    squeaky kid voice: "Huh?"

    seasoned adventurer voice: "Here, drink this swirly potion, it'll fix that voice problem you have."

    squeaky kid voice: "'Kay."

    seasoned adventurer voice: "Bye now, have a nice day."

    squeaky kid voice: *gulp* "Wha..Aiiieeeeee......." (squishy sound)

    Any chance there will be a way to weed out
    • >>
      Any chance there will be a way to weed out the, um, weeds? Otherwise, I'll have to say no. Unless, PK is allowed, in which case the weeds have a purpose in the game.
      >>

      No, no PK. Try Darkfall (still in production): http://www.darkfallonline.com/ [darkfallonline.com]
    • No PvP, which is the primary reason I wont be picking up this title. From many of the (veiled in NDA) comments I've read and been told, D&D Online offers nothing new to the genre and is basically a hack and slash RPG and could have easily been a singleplayer game.
      • I tryed a friend's Beta of D&D Online. I agree it seams just like a single player game ported over to to a want'a-be MMORPG. This concept might have worked before EQ, DAoC or WoW.
        I am guessing Turbine thought playing by the on D&D rules would keep the new people that don't role-play away. It doesn't. All I seen in there was 25% hard-core D&Drs and 75% want'a-be's talking like they would IRL.
        Seamed funny after playing the game with all the non-RPGers that the beta selection was not too good,
  • D&D online is of course far from being the dirst D&D-based computer game, nor is it the first to try to stick close to the source material as a pen-and-paper game. Remember Neverwinter Nights?

    What's always been missing, though, is the truly freeform experience that a pen-and-paper game provides. When being chased by enemies, can you knock over a crate of apples to trip them up? When fighting an enemy on a bridge, can you grab them and chuck them off the side? Can you pay an assassin to get ri
    • Remember Neverwinter Nights?

      Remember Pool of Radiance? [the-underdogs.org] (And no, I'm not talking about that hideous bastard child from Ubisoft.)

    • Damn straight. Although it doesn't try to emulate the pen and paper, it just borrows a lot of the rules.

      Voila, you know what's going on. Want to see what you get next level? That's as easy as opening up the Players Handbook 3.5.

      I played DDO on Fri when it came out, then D&D on Sat, DDO on Sun, and a few hours during lunch.

      The rules are the same, it's easy to follow, and quite fun. Both have their advantages. Can you get your normal group together during lunch for a quick 45 minutes of play? Can you get
    • Maybe a few games have tried things like the above on a limited basis, but the point is that computer gaming and pen-and-paper will always be two wholly different things. It doesn't seem to me that either type of gaming is well-served when one tries to emulate the other.

      Good point. Just as the media affects storytelling (eg books vs movies), different media are conducive to different play styles.
      Online lets you enjoy the thrill of complex battles and consistant pacing, at the cost of freedom. P&P of
    • What's always been missing, though, is the truly freeform experience that a pen-and-paper game provides. When being chased by enemies, can you knock over a crate of apples to trip them up? When fighting an enemy on a bridge, can you grab them and chuck them off the side? Can you pay an assassin to get rid of a troublesome bad guy? Can you choose to spare the bad guy's life if he helps you overthrow the reigning king? Can you seduce, marry, and then murder an NPC so as to inherit their land or an important

    • Remember Neverwinter Nights?

      Remember it? It's still going strong, nearly 4 years after release (IIRC). There is still plenty of servers floating around even with the likes of WoW here in great force. The main reasons I can think of is a) a lot of people are against pay-to-play games, and b) NWN has so much scope for customisation, in regards to both the look of your character and also your character "build" when compared to the MMORPG games.
    • Good point - I remember playing D&D when I was young and the party reached a moat, the wizard in our group decided to turn me (a stupid warrior) in to a fish to check if the moat was acidic or not... needless to say I failed the saving throw, got thrown in the moat and got burned.
  • No PvP.
    Ten levels.
    Forced grouping.
    No exploration.
    Everything's instanced.

    The Everquest fans that haven't moved on to EQ2 will have a field day. Not sure who else this game is for, exactly.
    • My thoughts exactly. Don't forget the monthly fees on top of that.

      I don't see any reason to play this game. Especially since I've got a group of real people that play the real deal at least twice a month.
    • I think the EQ fans that still play the original game do so mostly for raiding, moving through the content they haven't yet finished.

      I would be incredibly surprised if any of them wanted to go back to level one in a game based on a pen & paper RPG that few of them ever played.

      I think D&DO will mostly draw younger (age 10-15) MMORPG players, which I consider a good thing for all other MMORPG players in all other games.
    • Ten levels.
      I keep seeing this mentioned, and I can't figure out why this is a determining factor in anything.

      "But, EverQuest has 65 levels!"

      So? The pace of those levels and the content available is all that matters. If there is equal content in DDO's 10 levels as there is in 65 levels of EQ, then it ceases to be an issue.
    • Have fun playing D&D by yourself. Let me know when it gets published.
    • Are you kidding me? Lack of exploration and instanced dungeons are the LAST thing an ex-everquest player wants to see.

      The only thing that I can think that this game might remotely appeal to are those who like the PvE part of Guild Wars. But Guild Wars has no monthly fee, has awesome PvP as well, and much better charactor creation. And halfway decent bots for when you can't find anyone to group with (or are short a monk or whatever).

      Then again, Guild Wars isn't D&D, but Neverwinter Nights is, and

    • You left out "Realtime Combat Clickfest" and their somewhat random implementation of the 3rd edition rulesets. I tried it during the stress test and figured it would be a much better idea to wait and see how Neverwinter Nights 2 turns out.
  • This is such a fluff piece that I'm surprised it didn't float away. The writer obviously didn't even try to find a review of the game before going to press. The game is almost the opposite of a real PnP (Pen and paper) adventure.

    In the PnP, you have wide flexibility in what you can do, limited only by your GM. In the MMO, you have a limited number of 'dungeons' that you can run, which only seem to involve going into someplace and killing monsters to get stuff. If you ran any of these dungeons, you kno

    • Actually, the mob AI is really pretty damn good in DDO.

      The mobs will attempt to evade your attacks. Mobs that cast will regularily hop backwards to create casting space. They select spells that are much to your detrement. The sometimes climb up on things to make reaching them harder, especially casters or archers.

      This isn't EQ/EQII/WoW/CoH-V/DAoC (shall I go on???) or any of those other games where the mob stands in place and you beat on it. Their AI isn't limited to "kill the mob that is doing the most
      • I don't expect much from the AI from an MMO, but you'd think it'd be easy in this case. Take down the cleric, and the party dies. They didn't seem to have any threat system that involved healing. I could cast as much as I wanted, and nothing would ever decide to take me down. Casting was even worse because it was almost random who it would cast at, with random spells as well. The darkness spell that kobold shaman could cast was a rare occurance really, and even then, it was unpredictable. Luckily, eve
    • Was accepted into one of the final beta's, played it for a bit and just went .....

      Suprisingly it wasn't very buggy. A few crashes was all but compared to other MMO's who have been released for years (Hello SOE) it was like a linux kernel so stable.

      What was wrong with it then? Well there is an odd level design. The starter level (after the tutorial) has no healing potion merchant. If you screw up during the first mission and use all your potions to keep alive then you are stuck. You can't get healed and s

    • Actually, I think it might do very well in the beginning. Longevity though is going to be based on how well they can add in new content. I very much agree with you in that they have the rules down pretty well. That being said, they are doing the exact same thing as the PnP game does, giving you the basic rules and making them work well. In the PnP game, you take those rules and do whatever you want with them. In DDO, they are presenting you the material. Now that they have the rules down, if they can produ
    • From what I've read, virtually everything outside of towns in the game are instanced--just like Guild Wars. Except D&D online has a monthly fee.

      So what exactly am I paying for with that monthly fee? Since everything is instanced, it requires very little bandwidth or overhead on their part. And non-instanced MMORPG's like WoW are available with much larger user bases and much more developed worlds for the same monthly fee.

      The only thing D&D online is selling is name brand recognition, and who still g

  • I thought this was going to be about BDSM.
  • "Thanks for reading our uninformative marketing press article. Back to your regular schedule."
  • This is not a new idea. There are a ton of different apps out there that do the same thing, better:
    • GRiP [rpgrealms.com].
    • ScreenMonkey [nbos.com].
    • Fantasy Grounds [fantasygrounds.com]. Excellent graphics, but mostly just for D20.
    • KloogeWerks [kloogeinc.com]. Java-based, with lots of neat features.
    • OpenRPG [openrpg.com]. My favorite -- it runs on Linux and is open source!
    • NWN: Neverwinter Nights is, IMHO, the current benchmark for an online D&D implementation, has a version for Windoze/Linux/Apple too
      • Pros:
        • You can design your own worlds
        • You can add to the set of functionality provided
        • You are encouraged to infact
        • PvP
        • Lvl 40 cap
        • No monthly subscription fees
        • DM Client
      • Cons:
        • 3.0 ruleset
        • typical CRPG limitations
        • Rather hard to build worlds/areas/encounters unless you know what you are doing

      On the whole though it is a great product.
      Oh and there are soooo many fre

      • The programs I listed are not CRPGs. They are computer-assisted RPGs: chat-based RPGs where multiple real people interact in real time to play a real RPG. CRPGs like NWN are cool, but their flexibility is limited (you get a limited number of choices in any given situation, for example in NPC interaction, unlike in an RPG where anything is possible), and there aren't actual other people involved. Computer-assisted RPG programs like the ones I linked to are basically the same as real, face-to-face RPGs -- the
  • For those too lazy from eating pork rinds from 10 am Saturday morning until 2 am Sunday morning playing it FTF to bother actually getting on the bus or their bike to go play it next week.

    Wow.

    Plus, you don't have to pick up after your friends who leave all their dirty socks, pizza boxes, and scribbled on pieces of paper all over the basement that your mom gets on your case for, and you can press mute when your mom yells at you to finish your chores.

    Bonus: if you talk in a really deep voice, noone will know y
  • GIVE SWORD TO TROLL
  • Since the end user of DDO has absolutely *no* control over the content of the game whatsoever, making comparisons between it and actually playing AD&D is ridiculous.
  • by building voice-chat software into the game so players can speak with one another using a microphone plugged into their computer

    I've had DMs kill an entire party for making too much noise (arguing) and attracting wandering beasties with the noise... and then penalize us with - die roll modifiers with the surprise attack... Remember, it's not really 'Role' playing if you're not playing your role.

  • by jhughes ( 85890 ) on Monday February 27, 2006 @09:24PM (#14813930) Homepage
    My friends and I hoped that DDO would allow us to relive our D&D pen and paper days, but as others mentioned, DDO falls far short of that. We did however search the net and found a couple of programs that did a better job of it.

    My personal favorite is Fantasy Grounds (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/ [fantasygrounds.com], which mimics a table top with dice and such. There's no real automation in it, but if you know XML you can customize the rulesets and such.

    There are a few others, Klooge (http://www.kloogeinc.com/ [kloogeinc.com]) is a bit more complex, but you can tweak the heck out of it if you know what you're doing. OpenRPG (http://www.openrpg.com/ [openrpg.com]) is another one.

    To each their own, but these programs (combined with voice comms) can really help ya relive the tabletop experience if your friends are long distance like mine.

    H
  • I've played the beta for 2 weeks @ 4 hours/day (IAABT). DDO looks great and is well made but I can't recommend it because of an utter lack of content. After the beta I had a level 7 and level 6 toon, having played every dungeon to boredom. Hard core players maxed out their first character in less than 2 weeks.

    During the last week of the beta the hardest part in starting a party was deciding what to do: noone cared anymore which dungeon to go to.

    You may want to read the beta reviews at http://www.mmorpg.co [mmorpg.com]
  • So far I've enjoyed DDO. And I know a lot of you are disappointed with it,but I went into the game not looking for a PnP in MMO form but something that isn't WoW. I played WoW for half a year. I had a level 60 orc lock and a 40 something troll theif. I never liked the raids. I would rather be forced to play with 5 other people(11 others if it is a raid party) than to have to deal with 40 people.

    So far I haven't ran into any whiny kids on the voice chat, or immature 1337 speakers! My guild is doing qu
    • I liked it a lot for the same reason, but the siren's song of EQ2's Kingdom of Sky pulled me back :P

      DDO is amazing for the casual player. It's also a ton of fun to play, because positioning and such matters. There's something to be said for a dungeon crawl where all you have is six players and you don't automatically recover mana.

      I think I'm going to come back to it later after I binge on Kingdom of Sky for a month or three.
  • D20... I just don't feel as good about it as I did when I use to sit with my old AD&D books. Does anyone else feel that Wizards have destroyed something that was once good? How can the MMORPG be any better? I think I'll just be sticking with EQ2.
    • It depends on the DM. I've played with some that sucked and some that didn't. This might end up being a good thing. If you live in an area where there's not a good DM, you'd be able to get on line and find one.

      I've been playing NWN for ages and we've got a really good DM. I don't really see what the difference is. Done well it could work. Done poorly and it could suck. Just like anything else.

      Just because you can remember when Moses was in short pants doesn't make you old. It just means you've had a
      • At least try it before you say it sucks.

        I've been playing 3rd edition on a regular basis for about 3 years now.
        • As a fellow old-school RPGer (mid-1970s) I have to ask, what do you say is wrong with DND3 relative to its ancestors?

          Personally I think DND in general has some major problems(*), but D20/DND3 is a gazillion times better thought-out than any of DND, BDND, ADND, XDND, or ADND2.

          (*) = AC & HP are wrong in their entirety, spell memorization by level is annoying, class feature progression is too rigid, etc.
    • The new system seems to be designed, unlike the AD&D system. AD&D seems to be 75 different thoughs all smushed into one game and never really fleshed out. Then again, I haven't purchased anything after 3rd edition.
    • D20... I just don't feel as good about it as I did when I use to sit with my old AD&D books.

      For reference, I have a copy of D&D first edition.

      The rules in that game were barely designed - all too often, you have characters that get insta-killed because they only have one hitpoint. Not only that, but once you pick a character class, there is no further variation.

      In a way, the same applies to AD&D. Although it was at least better since character flexibility was improved with dual classes (a ch

    • I played D&D, AD&D, and 2nd Ed AD&D (as well as other systems) back in "the day" and had a great time doing it. We used the rules to add structure to the stories we told and to conduct the battles we fought within those stories. If there was a rule that we didn't like as a group, it got changed or discarded. If new rules were needed, we added them. We had a lot of good times.

      Now we use DnD 3.5 (with a couple of house rules) and I have to say the mechanics are better in almost every way. Th

    • I've also played every iteration of D&D since the early 80's and I have to say the d20 system is by far the best evolution of the game to date. To me, a good system is one where the game mechanics are consistent and streamlined enough that I only have to look something up in the book if its complicated or used infrequently (like grapple rules, arg!). This keeps pacing of the game steady and allows us to concentrate on having fun and playing rather than wrestling with the rules and tables. This was par
    • I have played, and still have the books of, D&D Basic to Master, AD&D 1, 2, and 3. D20 is the best D&D system. The base D20 mechanics are consistent with few special cases or weird rules. More importantly the D20 system is easily extensible. My group's house rules were easily ported over.
  • ....I'm attacking the darkness!
  • 'nuff said.
  • by ultranova ( 717540 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2006 @05:07AM (#14815307)

    But these days, aspiring wizards, druids and paladins are more likely to click and type their way through the evil necromancer's tower rather than huddle around a table casting spells between grabbing bites of pizza.

    But suppose I'm an aspiring necromancer working towards lichdom ? Can I reanimate the remains of these intruders of my home once I've dealt with them ? And if so, what happens if they respawn and try again - or does this game actually have a permanent death system ?

    Really, why do necromancers take such bad PR all the time ? Using zombies and skeletons as workforce is perfectly logical and hurts no one - their souls have long since departed, after all. Would that "noble" paladin rather have me using slave labor ?

    And what does the tree-hugging hippy care - I'm not hurting any trees or small (or even large) animals, am I ? Undead are perfectly natural, or does he perhaps think that every skeleton roaming some long-forgotten tomb was rised by a necromancer ? "Nature" - bah ! Druids only accept part of nature, and declare everything else "unnatural", while using their own utterly unnatural powers without remorse - or do you think that it's natural for a human being to become a squirrel at will ?

    Hmmph. It's all baseless propaganda, malicious wrongfull accusations. They are all just jealous of the fact that if they get a tiny hole in their body they die, while if I get my head hacked off I'll simply pick it up and reattach it. It is pure bone envy, I tell you !

    • Really, why do necromancers take such bad PR all the time ? Using zombies and skeletons as workforce is perfectly logical and hurts no one - their souls have long since departed, after all. Would that "noble" paladin rather have me using slave labor ?

      Bah, Necromancers are the CEOs of D&D. Outsourcing mindless killing jobs which could have gone to hard working gnomes.

      And what does the tree-hugging hippy care - I'm not hurting any trees or small (or even large) animals, am I ? Undead are perfectly na
      • Bah, Necromancers are the CEOs of D&D. Outsourcing mindless killing jobs which could have gone to hard working gnomes.

        In the end it works for everyone's favor. Only by using the most cost-effective available labor can a necromantic treasure retrieval effort stay competitive in todays fiercely competitive adventuring environment. This, in turn, means an economic boom for local businessess. The gnomes can find new jobs in supplying equipment for the armies of the dead, and if they can't, at least they

        • In the end it works for everyone's favor. Only by using the most cost-effective available labor can a necromantic treasure retrieval effort stay competitive in todays fiercely competitive adventuring environment. This, in turn, means an economic boom for local businessess. The gnomes can find new jobs in supplying equipment for the armies of the dead, and if they can't, at least they'll starve to death while lying on streets paved with gold - and once dead they have a guaranteed job at the employment of Nec
          • The Necro-Industrial Complex is a self serving means for wealth redistribution, not wealth generation. This wealth redistribution also does not benifit the working class gnome displaced by cheap undead labor.

            There is no Necro-Industrial Complex. It is merely a myth perpetuated by the unpatriotic thought criminals who are against the advancement of necromancy for their own less than wholesome reasons.

            In this time of interplanar competition, we must employ all of our strategic resources for maximum gain

            • In any case, I thank you for volunteering for our breeding program (that was your intention, wasn't it ?). We shall contact you as soon as we liberate your hometown from its current administration. We look forward to working with you, or at least your Earthly remains. I will see to it personally that the experiment will also involve the remains of an elf clad in chainmail bikinis; such remains shouldn't be hard to come by, due to bikinis less than ideal coverage of vital areas. Unfortunately, I cannot guara
  • I've read reviews of this MMO, and the once promising hype seems to fail to deliver. What makes or breaks any D&D game is the ability for extraordinary things to happen. And unfortunately, this really can't be managed without a real life GM. Planescape Torment came close, but that's single player, but a great example of what this game should have been. NPCs with real, meaningful backgrounds that are not only enticing, but explain certain unique characteristics about them. Name another game where th

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