What Might Have Been: Microsoft Almost Bought SAP 208
steveorama writes "This article from Bloomberg indicates that 'Microsoft Corp, the world's largest software maker, approached late last year about buying the German company, a combination that would have vaulted it to the biggest seller of software for business applications.'" The talks came out in advance of likely disclosure in the ongoing merger battle involving Oracle, PeopleSoft and the U.S. Department of Justice. An anonymous reader points to this article in the Financial Times, adding "Microsoft says the discussions were halted due to the complexity involved in the transaction and in integrating the two companies. A merger with SAP would be a profound break with previous Microsoft strategy, and would likely have raised eyebrows among regulators."
Raising eyebrows is right. (Score:5, Funny)
I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:4, Funny)
> German anti-trust law, which are a wee bit more strigent than the US anti-trust law.
If you violate German anti-trust law, you get a slap on the wrist with a wet strudel.
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:2)
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:2)
And no, Austria is not the country with the kangaroos. It's the country with Apfelstrudel. And Germknödel. And Veltliner. And Welschriesling.
I think I need a holiday.
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:2)
Oh, yes it is. [news.com.au] (well, at least one).
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:2)
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:5, Insightful)
Vertical monopolies can be just as bad as horizontal ones. Let Microsoft have both and we may as well add a line to our tax forms for them.
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:2)
They've had that power before, with the per-processor licensing agreements that were found to be illegal. They want it again (see Trusted Computing).
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:3, Informative)
This is of course completely off topic, but I love this free speech rethoric so much, I have a "spot the difference"-type exercise prepared specifically for those occasions:
U.S. Constitution, 1st Amendment:
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:2)
In Canada you are not allowed to have any hate-speech in the media, and in Germany if you're doing anything in public related to the former Nazi party you'd better be very careful.
Some countries believe the benifit of allowing hate speech (freedom) do not justify the pote
Re:I cannot see how that's going to fly (Score:2)
When it comes to gambling, drinking, abortion and emergency contraception, Germans are undeniably more free than Americans.
Also, it's arguable whether stronger competition law increases or reduces freedom; this point isn't the slam-dunk you seem to think it is.
Mmm right... (Score:4, Insightful)
Like that'd bother Microsoft.
Re:Mmm right... (Score:2)
Probably, if you can't compete with them, just buy them. "Hey, I have a few tens of billions of dollars burning in my pocket"..
Re:Mmm right... (Score:4, Interesting)
In a nice demonstration of the Law of Perceived Value, sales of MS Money fell off as the price went down. People figure that if it's marked down that heavily, then it must suck. Pretty much everyone who bought it at all paid at least $39.95 for it.
Then they tried to buy Intuit and the FTC raised an eyebrow.
And it would have resulted (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And it would have resulted (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, but is there an ERP package that isn't bloat-ware? The fact is that MS wants to get into the market and Bill has $50 billion burning a hole in his pocket. On first-look, it made sense for Bill to at least "kick the tires".
Re:And it would have resulted (Score:2)
That's $60 billion and counting.
Re:And it would have resulted (Score:4, Informative)
My experience is that the big ERP systems are pretty bloated. One of the things that went on with these systems was that every company had to have a whole set of "modifications" to make the ERP system fit their business. These mods were often poorly done, poorly controlled and caused no end of reliability problems. These mods often contributed to the implementation projects being way over budget and way late. These mods, that almost all of their customers did, became a major obstacle to installing new versions. One of my past employers had a highly modified ERP system that they wanted to upgrade from 2.x to 3.y. They spent serverl hundred thousand dollars implementing the mods on version 3.y and finally just gave up because it was too hard. (I wasn't on that project!) They kept using 2.x until they were acquired by a competitor (who was actually using something older, more modified, and worse).
The ERP systems companies started making their software more "customizable" or "configurable" in an attempt to prevent mods. This made these already very large programs into true behemoths. A lot of companies still want their mods and that still causes a lot of cost and grief.
There are some systems that are not bloated--these are often called mid-range or tier 2 systems. One that I have used is Fourth Shift. It is not a perfect system, but it is low bloat and can be implemented pretty quickly and reasonably painlessly. I've installed FS into 4 businesses and each of those projects went very well. Some of these suppliers of smaller systems don't allow mods by the simple expedient of not distributing source code.
Microsoft CRM and Great Plains (Score:2)
Too bad it didn't happen (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Too bad it didn't happen (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not so sure of this. While the regulatory powers did not see fit to break up Microsoft in the last round, it seems unlikely that they would approve of acquisitions of the SAP type either. I think truthfully, Microsoft's acquisition tentacles are to some extent being held at bay for the time being. This, of course, does not prevent them from continuing to screw everyone with t
Re:Too bad it didn't happen (Score:2)
Re:Too bad it didn't happen (Score:5, Interesting)
And that's the problem with Microsoft. They either are downright stupid or suffer from massive hubris. They seriously need to split apart because although they apparently won the antitrust case (in the long run), their size and market strength is keeping each division from making decent acquisitions to keep them competitive with other companies.
Microsoft seriously needs to split into at least three companies, and dump MSN outright. One company would focus on operating systems and web services technology. The second company would do applications (Office) and business software (Great Plains). The third would be the videogame division.
Microsoft's size is curtailing the success of their videogame division. The Xbox division needs to acquire some large scale publishers and try to guarantee exclusives for the Xbox Next so they don't have to heavily subsidize each machine. Buying for example Activision, Atari (Infogrames), Midway, and UbiSoft would do just that (EA will stay independent). But if they did that currently, they'd be hit with another antitrust case.
Separating the company into three and splitting the booty of ill gotten gains evenly ($20 billion a piece since Microsoft has $60 billion now) woudl go a long way to shoring up the companies and jettison antitrust concerns. After all, we all know Microsoft Office needs to be released for the Linux platform, but as long as Microsoft stays in tact, this will not happen out of concern of jeopardizing the Windows monopoly.
Re:Too bad it didn't happen (Score:2)
They should have been broken up like Standard Oil -- into compaines that have to fight each other for market share. That means one company would end up with a server OS and excel while a different one would end up with the home OS and word. That would result in decreased costs for consumers and increased competition in the marketplace.
Re:Too bad it didn't happen (Score:2)
Re:Too bad it didn't happen (Score:2)
What??? You propose the "Baby Bill" scenario that was talked about during the Antitrust trial. You are talking about multiple Microsofts marketing different distributions o
Yawn... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not like this is a transit of Venus or something...
Re:Yawn... (Score:2)
OT? Maybe -- but more interesting than this story
Enjoy!
Paraphrased from my friend... (Score:5, Funny)
(Non-flame, I'm German!)
Re:Paraphrased from my friend... (Score:2)
It takes extreme organization and skill to pull it off. Done well and completely, it is extremely effective. Done less than perfectly, the imperfections are automated with predictable results.
My impression is that SAP can make or break a company. It would be interesting, in a morbid sense, to watch the combination of Microsoft and SAP. You can automate what you understand. Automation
Oh my (Score:2)
Merger??? Yeah, right! (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft would merge with SAP the same way I merge with a cheeseburger.
Weaselmancer
Re:Merger??? Yeah, right! (Score:3, Funny)
I don't get it...
Re:Merger??? Yeah, right! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Merger??? Yeah, right! (Score:2)
Re:Merger??? Yeah, right! (Score:2)
Wellington Bear calculator, too... (Score:2)
"We are Trapper-Keeper, we are one."
Monopolies and mergers (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Monopolies and mergers (Score:2)
Re:Monopolies and mergers (Score:2)
Re:Monopolies and mergers (Score:2)
That didn't stop Microsoft from buying Bungie or Rare. Bullfrog too, if I remember correctly.
Re:Monopolies and mergers (Score:2)
Not MS, EA (Score:2)
Likewise Origin, Westwood, Maxis, etc.
Wow, what a story. (Score:5, Funny)
Bullshit (Score:5, Interesting)
MS want ERP vendors to think they almost acquired SAP. Then ERP vendors will think wow that could be us. How can we make ourselves more attractive to MS for buyout. I know, we'll program a bunch of
This gets vendors to try to play extra nice with
In related news... (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds from Linux Business Week as if... (Score:2)
hehe (Score:2)
Isn't it ironic... (Score:5, Insightful)
It might have actually made SAP usable (Score:5, Informative)
For all the negative we say about microsoft, they have done a lot for generating a consistant user interface. On SAP, sometimes you have to hit enter, sometimes you click the green checkmark (in "random" locations), sometimes you click the clock icon, sometimes you hit f8.
Unless you use it every day, you forget how to use the basic functions.
You forget how nice it is to use Windows until you use SAP!
Re:It might have actually made SAP usable (Score:2, Interesting)
With that said, I used to work for Tivoli, an IBM subsidiary, and we used RETAIN for problem tracking so that we could be tied into IBM global operations and receive support calls internationally, So I know all about crappy mainframe applications.
Re:It might have actually made SAP usable (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It might have actually made SAP usable (Score:2)
Yes! I have the triton rack as well. Evil machine, but it sounds damn good:)
Re:It might have actually made SAP usable (Score:3, Funny)
Kludge does not even begin to describe it.
Even that wouldn't be so bad if it actually worked. Somewhere, SAP salesmen are laughing all the way to the bank.
AMEN - mod up (Score:2)
Re:It might have actually made SAP usable (Score:2)
No, Apple has done a lot for consistent user interfaces. Microsoft has provided a widget set and a set of programming tools, but their own programs aren't even consistent. Having just been introduced to Visual Studio.NET, I'm a lot le
Re:It might have actually made SAP usable (Score:2)
This, from an AC? buwahahahahahahahahah!
Has anyone noticed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Has anyone noticed (Score:2)
Re:Has anyone noticed (Score:2)
Which administration did the Time Warner/Turner merger take place in? Which administration was the AOL Time Warner merger first proposed? Which administration allowed SBC to gobble up the majority of the former Baby Bell telcos? T'was not the George W. Bush Administration.
When did the infamous freshman Republicans show up and halt the federal budget for a month? What year did congress declare that profit was the only measure of corporate success? Just because a democrat is in the whitehouse doesn't mean
Which is complex? (Score:3, Funny)
I think it was more a COMPLEXITY of the SAP code that M$ did not understand!
Rocco
Obligatory Joke (Score:5, Funny)
Q: What do you get when you merge Microsoft and SAP?
A: Microsoft
Re:Obligatory Joke (Score:2)
A: Microsoft"
Q. How do you pronounce BP Amoco?
A. BP...the "Amoco" is silent.
Which reminds me, Arco is now displaying logos telling its customers that it is part of the BP family.
Too bad this didn't happen (Score:4, Interesting)
Obligatory pun? (Score:5, Funny)
At least MS ran away in time... (Score:5, Funny)
This is in sharp contrast to most companies who deal with SAP that end up spending up to 2 billion dollars for a product that doesn't even work.
Re:At least MS ran away in time... (Score:2)
Re:At least MS ran away in time... (Score:2)
Now they must give SAP 2 Billion dollars to fix it!
Not invented here (Score:4, Interesting)
Does explain the SAPDB sale to MySQL a little more rationally though. That was one piece of baggage MS would not have tolerated.
I also suspect that WGIII and Uncle Fester took a hard look at the install base, evaluated their chances of actually converting some of the largest customers, overestimated it by at least double and still realized they'd be buying into supporting a product on competitive operating system platforms and databases for a basically a decade at least. Further noticed that many of these customers have ahem connections that they'd rather not mess with (it's rumoured that Haliburton is or was the largest single instance SAP system in the world, this appeared on a chart at one SAP conference and then disappeared for future appearances of the same presentation).
Re:Not invented here (Score:2)
Re:Not invented here (Score:2)
Doesn't change the fact that until recently SAP owned the commercial rights and SAP execs in Europe were using SAPDB to openly attack Oracle and IBM and Microsoft saying in effect that databases were a commodity so use our product which is "good enough". A message that disappeared suspisciously about the time these talks were going on.
MS bought Navision instead (Score:3, Interesting)
Whatever the reasons might be, MS in fact went ahead and bought Navision Financials instead, which probably was better for the overall backoffice strategy.
Navision was two years ago (Score:3, Informative)
Instead (Score:3, Informative)
Not sure how it would have been much different than strategy in other markets, but it should be pointed out they did buy out another large ERP company. [greatplains.com]
Wow. Microsoft is that big (Score:5, Interesting)
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SAP [yahoo.com]:
Market Cap: 51.18B
It would have cost them all their cash, but they'd have bought a company that works very much against all the way different than MSFT:
Re:Wow. Microsoft is that big (Score:4, Insightful)
Bye egghat.
Microsoft's SOP for merger "talks" (Score:4, Interesting)
Perhaps this is what Microsoft's intent was with SAP?
How would it have worked? (Score:5, Insightful)
It would have been astonishing for Microsoft to end up supporting J2EE applications for Sap on RedHat, at least for existing SAP users. Any move to close down the portability or application language support for an acquired SAP would surely have led to serious monopoly issues.
Re:How would it have worked? (Score:4, Insightful)
I think you have very little idea about the attitude of IT professionals with 15-20 years experience; the sort of people who implement SAP solutions. We are not the sort of people who can be forced to do anything. We trust no-one. If a company does not supply vendor-independent products and solutions they are history as far as we are concerned.
MightySloth would have done it.... (Score:2)
Ah-ha! (Score:3, Funny)
Wow. Microsoft halts due to any sort of complexity, eh? No wonder their software is so user friendly...
In case you're wondering (Score:2)
too bad. They would have choked on it. (Score:2)
Microsoft's Shopping Policies (Score:2)
Technology company merges rarely work. The techies that make a company worth having tend to find new jobs during the uncertainty of a merger. The rest have have more difficulty merging different corporate cultures than merging product l
Re:MSSAP ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:MSSAP ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not really an acronym anyways. (Score:2)
Maybe he meant "MSSAP" as in "Miss Hap" but I don't think he's that whitty.
Re:Not really an acronym anyways. (Score:2)
see http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=initiali
Re:Not really an acronym anyways. (Score:2)
Not the best example, because SQL is an acronym (pronounced 'sequel'), depending on who you ask.
Re:MSSAP ... (Score:2, Informative)
SAP = Sanduhr Anschau Programma (German for eggtimer watching application)
MS is not known for speedy software either.
Re:merger battle (Score:2)
Didn't you realise that had already happened?
Re:Microsoft asks SAP out for a date (Score:2)
Re:Makes perfect sense (Score:2)
SAP and a bunch of saps.
How true. Companies that have made the mistake of paying for SAP and all that it won't do will not allow you to pronounce it "sap", it must be in the contract somewhere. It is ess-aay-pee until the manager turns his back, then you've got two saps.
Re:Makes perfect sense (Score:2)
I suppose you think it should have a big red button labelled "Look, feel and behave exactly like our old system"?
I suppose you think that companies should have to change their business rules in order to adapt to SAP? I'm a software developer, and I believe it should be the other way around.
Re:M$ already has SAP... (Score:2)
The history of M$ is full of this. They buy out any competitor they can, remember stacker? That was useful until hard drives became so cheap that compressing a hard drive is a waste of time. This has happened to many companies that brought out products that did something better than the original. M$ buys company, faces no more competition in that area.
Then again maybe they got stuck with that one. Pay millions for a company and watch it become useless in four yea