Microsoft Cuts Ties With the Surface Duo After Just 2 Android Version Updates (windowscentral.com) 62
Microsoft is done supporting the original Surface Duo, three years after it first launched on September 10. From a report: The company has stated from the very start that the Surface Duo would receive just three years of OS updates, meaning today is the last day that Microsoft has to stay true to its word. Going forward, Microsoft will no longer ship new OS updates or security patches for the original Surface Duo, meaning Android 12L is the last version of the OS it will ever officially receive. Surface Duo only ever got two major OS updates, one shy of the average three that most high-end flagship Android devices get these days.
And they're suprised (Score:3)
And they're surprised that customers didn't get behind this device.
Re: (Score:2)
I never would have expected Microsoft to strongly support a device on a Google platform.
I was expecting the article to say they stopped at Android 13 just before 14 was to be released, as a dick move, but 12L?
Makes one wince at their mobile strategy.
Re: (Score:3)
Well.. they were pretending they like Android now. They have Phone Link which they collaborated on, and they've given up their failed attempts to ursurp Android.
Re: (Score:3)
> their mobile strategy
That intern went back to school. Nobody even looked at the work the Intern did.
Re: (Score:2)
The DS was a pretty solid device but things were designed around it.
Planned Obsolence (Score:3, Informative)
This is something I really hate about a lot of modern devices including cell phones and e-readers. They are designed to last about two years (give or take a bit) and that's it! These things way too expensive to have such a short lifespan.
My previous desktop PC lasted over a decade. I DID upgrade the memory and the graphics card myself, once, over the lifetime of the pc. But even so, if you average the total cost over the lifetime of the device I did way better with this than I would have on any modern s
Re: (Score:2)
Do we have color eink tablets yet? I'm sure Amazon will give you one sometime, albeit with all the things an Amazon product entails.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, we have a few color e-ink tablets. Bigme and Boox make them. And both constantly phone home to China, run on an already-outdated version of Android, and won't receive major Android version updates.
Re: (Score:2)
So good luck. No will make a durable good any more. No money in it. Better to get idiots to buy it every 2 years.
Re: (Score:2)
Fairphone has seven years of OS updates [slashdot.org]. It's not as good as a PC, but it's pretty good.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's hardly expensive if you view it as 5 to 7 year investment instead of a one time expense. Probably cheaper in the long run than an entry level Android you have to replace every year or so to continue getting updates on.
Re: (Score:2)
That was only $150. New.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
I know the hardware lasted that long, so the software should have as well.
But devs are greedy fuck nuggets. Prolly stopped supporting it to force people to newer versions.
Re: (Score:2)
I guess if you find a cellphone that supports open Android firmware, you can run it as long as you want. But I was looking at Android phones the other day, and the cheapest ones are $US 80, and they're not even that bad. Heck, I have a flagship Samsung, and the $160 phones I could run and not even feel really deprived. It even had an IR blaster which my flagship doesn't have, and 8GB RAM which is the same as some base model Samsung S23s. What's the point in keeping these things running 10 years?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Planned Obsolence (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
They are designed to last about two years (give or take a bit) and that's it!
If you're only keeping a cell phone for two years you're doing it wrong. Apple and Google (via the Pixel) both provide years of software updates for their respective platforms. I used an iPhone 8 through 2022 and would still be using it if my employer hadn't provided me with a free (to me) 13. It continues, to this day, to get software updates. It came out six years ago. Is it cutting edge hardware? Nope. My 13 has a better camera, cellular modem, and display. Is it still serviceable? Absolutely.
Re: (Score:2)
Samsung offers 5 years of updates now too.
Re: (Score:2)
You want a color tablet that’ll get 10 years support? It’s called an ipad pro.
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't know that Iphones get security updates for 10 years. Thanks for the info, I will have to look into this.
Re: Planned Obsolence (Score:1)
iPhone 5S (Score:2)
The iPhone 5S that I've repurposed as a security camera last got a security update in January. It was introduced in 2013. It stopped getting major OS updates in 2019, but they still patch the more severe security holes in the base OS.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
And they're surprised that customers didn't get behind this device.
Interesting theory, but far from reality. *Most* Android devices don't receive updates beyond that period. Heck Google's first party devices max out after 3 OS updates, and this is *FROM LAUNCH DATE*. That distinction is important because in practice it means the new phone I got last year has already gotten its OS update, just a single one counting from the day I purchased it.
The reality is few OS updates are the norm, and really customers largely don't give a shit. OS updates stopped mattering about 5 year
Re: (Score:3)
Heck Google's first party devices max out after 3 OS updates, and this is *FROM LAUNCH DATE*.
Someone missed that Google is doing 5 years of support starting with last years Pixel 7 series [endoflife.date].
Though I don't blame you for the mistake - it's a fairly new development that *any* android device maker gives a single shit about ongoing software support and patching.
Re: (Score:1)
Nope I did not. Google does not release a new version of Android every year. Over those 5 years you're likely to get 3 OS updates.
Re: (Score:2)
Since the Pixel 6, Google has offered 5 years of updates.
Re: (Score:2)
Since the Pixel 6, Google has offered 5 years of updates.
Indeed that's what I said. 3 OS updates. Google doesn't release a new version of Android every year.
Re: (Score:2)
There has been a new version of Android every year since the initial release.
Re: (Score:2)
Why would literally anyone except for the most uninformed ignorant buyer expect Microsoft to continue supporting a competitor platform beyond the time period necessary to mitigate exposure to false advertising claims?
I, for one, find it exactly expected that Microsoft would kill support for a product they advertised with 3 years of updates on day 1096 of that product's public existence, otherwise known as 3 years + 1 day.
Its beyond stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
What makes you think they always update the whole OS? Plenty of patches for download are quite small.
Re: (Score:2)
Feels weird that if ARM or Qualcomm had an update for my hardware in my phone, that I must wait for Moto to package and send it to me months later.
Re: (Score:3)
It's got nothing whatsoever to do with ARM or Qualcomm. They just sell little semiconductors. A better question is why Google doesn't push out the updates, since they are the Microsoft of phones. And the reason is, they don't want to take responsibility for all that hardware working.
Re: (Score:3)
Not true, the phone OS are much closer coupled and baked together so there was some kind of mess that I don't particularly care to untangle but it required direct involvement from Qualcomm/Samsung etc:
Part of the challenge of Android updates is the continuous chain of software custody that has to be maintained across several companies, from the Android repository to your phone. Google and Qualcomm now say they are willing to pass the update baton to OEMs for three major updates and four years of security updates, but OEMs will actually need to update their Android skins and ship working builds to each of their devices. If they don't, we at least know who to blame now. ...
Google's blog post goes into detail about how it has made updating easier for SoC manufacturers like Qualcomm. Android's Project Treble re-architecture split the OS in half, separating the OS from the hardware with a modular interface. This makes it easy to run the same build of Android across multiple pieces of hardware (it's called a Generic System Image, or GSI). While that makes things easier if you're an OEM building an Android skin, Google was apparently heaping update requirements on SoC vendors.
SoC vendors are partly responsible for the "vendor" implementation in Project Trebleâ"the bottom half of OS split that contains the hardware support. While things above the Project Treble split (the software) were guaranteed backward compatibility, the hardware support was not. For each SoC, Qualcomm would need to maintain a vendor implementation for each software history permutation. That means one for phones that launched with Android 10, another for Android 11, and a third for devices that launched with Android 10 and were upgraded to Android 11.
https://arstechnica.com/gadget... [arstechnica.com]
Re: (Score:3)
Why are the manufacture pushing the updates and not the chip makers.
Perhaps you answered your own question.
Why are you asking what chip makers are responsible for? They make fucking chips.
Let me know when their give-a-shit level should exceed chip-level.
Re: Its beyond stupid (Score:2)
They should be held responsible because they are all special snowflakes. They haven't come together to produce a standard for their hardware that an OS vendor could support. That's not the OS vendor's job, it's theirs.
Re: (Score:2)
Why are the manufacture pushing the updates and not the chip makers.
Two reasons:
a) Because the manufacturers don't control their hardware. These aren't NVIDIA or AMD GPUs where the design is strictly specified and works in a single way. These are more like the RAID cards of the days of old, or a motherboard UEFI where the chip maker releases drivers to the manufacturer who needs to package them to suit the product they made in the very much custom way that they made them.
b) The drivers are incorporated into the OS partition in a read only way as part of the security model A
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Its beyond stupid (Score:4, Interesting)
It is beyond stupid to me that the manufactures of the device must update the whole OS. I have always found it weird that Android isn't more PC like in its updates.
Manufacturers don't update the whole OS. There's a difference between a new version of the OS (like a new version of windows), and the constant stream of small patches that get pushed. Just because I'm on a 3 year out of date version of Android doesn't mean I don't get quarterly security updates. And that's also before you consider that many core components of Android are now controlled and patched directly through the Play Store.
Android is very much like a PC in its updates. You just haven't looked at Android since version 7 where this model was introduced.
That is part of the problem (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed, but also don't care. On launch I got monthly security and bug fixes. Now a year after I got my phone (and well over 2 years since it was launched) the bug fixes are virtually irrelevant. We're not patching a first day release of Android 14 beta here, it's Android 12, any bug that is still there is likely to be insanely minor.
It's been well over 5 years since I found an Android bug that actually affects usability and for all the noise about security on mobile, actual bugs in the Android are rarely if
Re: (Score:2)
it's that way because the manufacturers want it that way. They don't want to give up their highly-profitable control of the OS, notably for the bundled software you're not allowed to uninstall. Having the phone go unsupported in a few years is a bonus; guess you'll have to buy a new one!
Trust Microsoft? (Score:3)
Trust Microsoft to get behind its product and support it to the hilt? Bwahahahaha How many failed MS phones do we have to see before we get the message. Remember Windows CE, Windows mobile 5.0, Window Phone? Microsoft Kin? And should I mention the Zune again?
Re: Trust Microsoft? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The top flagships are 12GB, unless you skimp on the lowest spec.
Re: (Score:2)
And what's the surprise?! Google's Pixel 4a ... (Score:4, Insightful)
... was launched one month earlier (August 2020) and guess what ... it's out of support (EVERYTHING, including security fixes) as of last month.
Re: (Score:2)
Huh?! It's an Android phone with another Google reference Android phone, very relevant because Google had at the time the same three years policy. If you are somehow concerned that 4a is from the "cheap" line the flagships Pixel 4 and Pixel 5 had PRECISELY the same 3 years update policy, ending in October 2022 and 2023 respectively. I picked the 4a just because it was the closest and already aggravating because we KNOW the updates really ended.
Re: (Score:2)
You're comparing a $349 budget phone to a $1399 laptop??
The Surface Duo 2 is not a laptop, it's a phone.
Really only two years (Score:4, Insightful)
Support time should be measured from when they stop selling it, not when they start. If you buy a brand new phone, how long will you get support? For some Duo customers, that was only two years. "But it was already a year old when you bought it!" No, it was a brand new phone. As long as they keep selling it, they need to keep guaranteeing several years of support.
Well i'd think people would take this into account (Score:2)
I mean I wouldn't spend hard earned money on a Microsoft tablet or laptop, given their poor support record. But i'm not the average buyer.
Re: (Score:2)
If you are referring to the failed ARM experiments sure, but you need to specify that because "Microsoft tablet or laptop" means just regular X86 machine for many people (as there are many more tablets from Microsoft that are x86, both as models and as sold/marketed units, plus I guess ALL laptops?). The first Surface Pro that came with Windows 8 is over 10 years old and it's just a regular Windows ma
Re: (Score:2)
I have a Surface Book 2 and 3. Horrific BIOSes, both out of support by now anyway, and they need the support with the touchscreens and other custom, unnecessary stuff. These are the kind that can convert from laptop to tablet. Company machines that they just didn't reclaim when they went out of service. Pieces of utter garbage. Makes Dell look like a champion, which is hard to do. The magnesium cases are probably the only actual nice feature of them.
Re: (Score:2)
We are talking about OS updates. Everything but the lowest end Surface Book 2 can be officially updated to Windows 11, and with minimal effort even the ones that aren't officially supported work just fine (as do any similar machines even 5+ years older than the oldest Surface Book 2 which are 5+ years older already).
BIOS for a portable, what the heck we aren't talking about complex lights out management things with a full network stack, SSL certificates, Java security issues and so on. There are plenty of m
so? (Score:3)
Micro$oft (Score:2)
Headline choice (Score:2)
I suppose "Microsoft Honours Three Year Commitment" doesn't strike the desired tone,