1447389
story
Kaseijin writes
"'We believe that if peer-to-peer flourishes, the Internet flourishes.' Earthlink's Research and Development division has released SIPshare, a prototype file-sharing application based on SIP. The code is available under a BSD-style license."
Like a flower flourishes (Score:1)
I do agree with them however, network technology such as p2p is important.
Good Bye EarthLink (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Good Bye EarthLink (Score:2)
This reminds me of WASTE and Nullsoft/AOL.
It sounds like someone forgot to tell the legal department they were doing something special
Re:Good Bye EarthLink (Score:3, Informative)
To quote what is on DSL Reports [dslreports.com] "To dodge potential legal bullets, the company notes SIPShare is NOT a supported EarthLink product. 'It is more than anything else a manifestation of an idea,' says the company. 'So if you call our Tech Support with SIPshare questions, they will have no idea what you are talking about. So please, if you use SIPshare, you're on your own.'"
Re:Good Bye EarthLink (Score:4, Insightful)
And this differentiates SIPshare from anything else offered by Earthlink... precisely how?
Re:Good Bye EarthLink (Score:3, Insightful)
Okay what part of "earthlink is not putting this out as a product" do people not get??? There are no legal issues to dodge here. This is not a product. This is not meant for average consumers. This is a research project. A science project. They're trying to show that "SIP is cool" and "can achieve cool things".
people are interpreting this as earthlink supporting p2p file sharing development when in fact, file sharing is a completely irrelevant use case for this technology. Even if you can share files wi
Re:Good Bye EarthLink (Score:2)
Maybe finally someone will make an IM client that can actually transfer files behind a nat box without this bullshit port forwarding. .
Here's hoping.
Re:Good Bye EarthLink (Score:2)
Yea! And then we will only need to make sure that it can connect over HTTP proxy servers and pretend to be a web-browser. That way the IT people cant filter for it. Yea! We will p0wn all those corporate PCs! Yea! Nothing like a music sharing app to get all those dumbasses in marketing to install it. Cool idea!
Earthlink supports P2P! (Score:5, Insightful)
EarthLink believes an open Internet is a good Internet. An open Internet means users have full end-to-end connectivity to say to each other whatever it is they say, be that voice, video, or other data exchanges, without the help of mediating servers in the middle whenever possible. We believe that if peer-to-peer flourishes, the Internet flourishes. SIPshare helps spread the word that SIP is more than a powerful voice over IP enabler --- much more. SIP is a protocol that enables peer-to-peer in a standards-based way.
Re: Caveat! (Score:5, Interesting)
Scientology out, Christian Right In (Score:4, Interesting)
t part of their in-crowd your days as at Earthlink were limited. That is unless you're in India and work for two dollars a day. Then you're okay.
Re:Scientology out, Christian Right In (Score:2)
actually, the Indian's got the axe some time ago. Earthlink now outsources customer suport to the Phillipines. they're leading the pack on this trend...
Re:Scientology out, Christian Right In (Score:2)
Re: Caveat! (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah there had to be the obligatory earthlink and scientology post. Okay could we like, move on? This is old and utterly irrelevant gossip that takes away from talking about what's more important, such as the future of the internet, the future killer applications of the internet and how earthlink just might be the last big player to keep the other big players and regulators in check.
on one hand you have the major telcos who are lobbying like mad motherfsckers to keep their stronghold on the pipes, while
Re: Caveat! (Score:2)
okay first, yes they make money on dial-up, that's *the* profitable aspect of their business. Look at their 10K reports and you'll see that their DSL margins are very very low. Haven't looked-up satellite in a while, but it's a small fraction of their user base.
second, i'm sick and tired of those wet-behind-the-ears idealists-wannabe who've likely never worked a single day in their lives, getting all up in arms at anything that tries to make money. I've got news for you fscktard, if there weren't some c
Re: Caveat! (Score:2)
Re: Caveat! (Score:2)
And I'm still an Earthlink customer. I've considered going wireless, or signing up with the phone company, but those and cable (expensive, since we don't bother having cable TV) are my alternatives.
Re: Caveat! (Score:2)
Sorry, but, again, comparing Christianity to Scientology is highly disengenuous. Whether or not you agree with the beliefs of Christianity or Catholicism (and I happen to disagree with both... I'
Re: Caveat! (Score:2)
First, I consider "Christian Right" to be synonymous with "Christian Fundamentalists", so when I speak of the former, remember that I am not talking about moderate or liberal Christians. Christian Fu
Re: Caveat! (Score:2)
Sure. Where I come from, we call that "integrity in one's beliefs." Personally, I don't see a whole lot that says the modern Catholic Church is a Bad Thing(tm) as an institution, so I won't be joining your boycott. The practices of the Church of Scientology are well-documented elsewhere, however -- see other poster in this thread -- and
Re: Caveat! (Score:2)
Let me try:
- discreminating against women (no woman as priest), gay (which is ironic considering the number of priest who are gay).
- way too many pedophile problems, probably helped by preventing priest from marrying and being not very helpful for the victims.
- being generally against sex education, condoms or pills and abortion on a *very* crowded planet.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Earthlink supports P2P! (Score:2)
Re:Earthlink supports P2P! (Score:1, Insightful)
Just post under here with your email address, they will magically appear in your inbox.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Earthlink supports P2P! (Score:2)
Besides unreliability of those servers are there any other reasons not to forward your mail this way?
Re:Earthlink supports P2P! (Score:1)
Does there really need to be a reason other than the unreliability of ISP servers?
Also, what if you own your own domain and want to send email out using it instead of your ISP's domain? Some ISPs are refusing to relay anything that doesn't have their domain as the sender, which doesn't stop spam and only inconveniences their customers.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Earthlink supports P2P! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Earthlink supports P2P! (Score:2)
Stupid Mozilla mail, I
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Trust (Score:2)
I don't trust Earthlink and all of its employees implicitly - do you?
I send my mail to my mail server via SMTP+AUTH+STARTTLS which then does SMTP over TLS to my clients who then read the mail via IMAP over TLS. You would have me give this up because I happen to use Earthlink?
I wasted abou
Re:Trust (Score:2)
The problem with send rates are your using router CPU time vs putting it on a cluster of boxes that can be scaled a lot cleaper and faster. It's trivial to add another scanning box but not to add
Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:5, Informative)
Then again we've all seen the US court system make mind-bending leaps of illogic so I guess anything's possible.
Re:Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:3, Interesting)
The crowbar analogy isn't so great because, on the other hand, lockpick tools are (generally) illegal.
The difference between the crowbar and the lockpick tool isn't that they have the potential for bad uses (obviously both do) -- it's about what they're generally used for.
The question about this Earthlink P2P will boil down to: is it mostly just another market for illegal filesharing, or will it mostly be used for legit sharing
Re:Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:2)
They know people should be able to look around heck people even have the constitutional right to spread information but then they are trying to draw lines to prevent it.
That's because all the policy people haven't gotten their thumbs out about developing a system to keep intellectual development moving and if they don't they worry that some of the emerging economies with diffrent political systems will triumph.
Re:Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:2)
Hmmmm, not sure, but wouldn't that be similar to someone using AOL's mail client to send an MP3?
Re:Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:2, Interesting)
Harhar, nice idea
We take some of these spam viruses and modify them, to spam mp3 in attachments, whatever mp3 they find on an infected computer they spam.
Re:Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:2)
Assuming that INDUCE gets passed, Earthlink will be responsible for fixing their P2P app to recognize "digial rights." This may be as simple as adapting Creative Common's sharing scheme, or it could be as convoluted as flagging and enforcing DRM.
Re:Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:2)
Re:Earthlink Opening Pandora's Box? (Score:2)
and to think... (Score:2)
Re:and to think... (Score:5, Insightful)
At least RoadRunner is nice enough to tell you [rr.com] where they're scanning from so that you can block them. Thanks iptables
Chris
Re:and to think... (Score:2)
Re:and to think... (Score:2)
Actually, I believe they were widely touting the fact that they were the last large ISP that hadn't (yet?) turned information over to the RIAA.
It should read (Score:5, Insightful)
1 - Release new P2P program
2 - Everyone needs more bandwidth
3 - People buy more bandwidth
4 - Profit!!!
5 - Internet flourishes kind of or something.
Re:It should read (Score:2)
Re:It should read (Score:2)
Re:It should read (Score:5, Insightful)
That should read "release proof of concept that wont work for 90% of users". It's a tech demo. It's not like there's some shortage of p2p apps anyway.
I think the bit that's missing is why SIP-based p2p would be better than other p2p apps. Someone care to explain that?
Re:It should read (Score:3, Informative)
Daniel
Re:It should read (Score:3, Informative)
Also, it's more likely that SIP would be allowed by default through various corporate firewalls, while typical P2P protocols will be blocked. Think of it as a firewall circumventing feature.
I was actually impressed, the idea is clever.
Re:It should read (Score:2)
VoIP and P2P are in the layers above 4.
Please go back and re-read the manuals.
Live audio has quite a bit in common with transferring large files (movies, ISO images) at the transport level, it is more or less a continuous stream of data. But there are dissimilarities as well, i agree with that.
I believe the main reason for choosing SIP has to do with firewall circumventing, not with similarities wi
Niggling thought (Score:2)
After reading the article I got the impression there was some kind of voice over ip connection protocol being established in a p2p format (connect to p2p network share id and allow p2p network to share your ip for incomming callers to connect to) but the guy above seems to think it's straight p2p as do most of the commentors.
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL US WHA
So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So what? (Score:2)
The labor union bit I'm a bit more iffy on. I'm theoretically supportive of the right of a group to collectively bargain, but in many cases (not all) strong labor unions tend to decrease personal iniative and motivators for efficiency and producitivity. And in others they just seem to drive sectors of the economy
Re:So what? (Score:2)
Do you support coercive labor unions?
I'm generally-libertarian, and I very much support the idea of labor unions. Just not *coercive* (read: if you work for X company, you are required to join, or, "if you don't vote for so-and-so, we'll bust your kneecaps") labor unions.
Labor unions are just organizations of people on the labor side of the economic equation; corporations are organizations of people on the capital side.
Enviro regs -- I
Re:So what? (Score:2)
Do you support coercive labor unions?
I do not know. I tend towards "no", but I think the circumstances would very much dictate my answer. I can imagine a situation wherein the balance of power was so in favor of the management that it was necessary for every employee to be a member, and that if that mechanism failed certain horrible consequences were fairly certain to happen.
So do I support coercive labor unions? Only in certain limited circumstances.
I try not to
Re:So what? (Score:2)
Re:So what? (Score:2)
Where, exactly did I say that Earthlink was doing something wrong? Maybe you read it into what I wrote, but you are the one that has a problem with corporate profit then.
Settle down, partner. I wasn't attacking you. If that's not what you meant, ok, but the tone was certainly in that direction, and it certainly wasn't clear why you brought up the point. It's been my experience that people don't usually bring up profit as a motive unless they are denegrating it. Without further context your message could
Re:So what? (Score:2)
Where, exactly did I say that you were attacking me? Maybe you read it into what I wrote, but you are the one that has a problem with you attacking me. What you just wrote is the equivilant of me saying "muskrats live in extensive burrow systems," and you turning around and saying "but there's nothing wrong with living in extensive burrow systems if you are a muskrat!"
Re:It should read (Score:1)
You think that's an intelligent observation or something?
They know who butters their bread, and it's not any *AA group, or the lobbyists behind the INDUCE act.
Companies exist to make money.
Re:It should read (Score:4, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underpants_Gnomes [wikipedia.org]
The Underpants Gnomes had 3 steps. If you make it into more, or don't end in "PROFIT!!!" then you aren't doing it for the right reasons. The goal is profit. The goal is ALWAYS profit.
Re:It should read (Score:2)
Only a proof of concept... (Score:5, Insightful)
No. All messaging, including the file transfer protocol, are based on UDP. If you want to extend EarthLink SIPshare by incorporating something like STUN for NAT traversal, by all means do so.
Obviously this wasn't originally intended for anything other than the proof of concept as a large group of users interested in P2P would be using some form of NAT. If anything it may be dangerous (if it became popular) because users would DMZ or disconnect from their router to put their machines straight to the net to use this application.
Re:Only a proof of concept... (Score:1)
Re:Only a proof of concept... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Only a proof of concept... (Score:2)
Now, if you're using some kind of external SIP proxy, then "automagically" all your clients behind NAT will work. That's all that's required for SIP to work through NAT.
Good! (Score:1)
Re:Only a proof of concept... (Score:2)
Yea not having single firewall support (one user outside one inside) is really really weak when so many programs implement it easily.
QOS SIP Traffic (Score:1)
Re:QOS SIP Traffic (Score:2)
Nah, can't see any reason that might happen, wouldn't be in any big company's interest to kill SIP now would it...
Adoption (Score:3, Insightful)
Quoting the Wikipedia link sited for "SIP": (Score:4, Funny)
Does SIP reproduce the "Doot-doot-doot-We're sorry, the file you are downloading has been disconncted."?
Looks like... (Score:2)
Re:Looks like... (Score:3, Interesting)
Well. Didn't work when I just tried it in 2k. I only wanted to try it at work because I think they used a look and feel I've been trying out with some of my apps.
P2P with Jabber/XMPP? (Score:2)
The studios/labels should leave the MPAA/RIAA (Score:3, Interesting)
What good are laws that are simultaneously unenforceable and make the people more contemptuous of the thought of paying for your products? If the labels had said publically, "we believe the No Electronic Theft Act more than adequately addresses online piracy, and the DMCA is bad for consumers" then they would have been the good guys. The people who pay attention to what they were doing at the time would have bought more CDs, and the RIAA would have been right, the NET Act was more than enough.
As I have pointed out on my blog before [blindmindseye.com] the solution to illegal file sharing is not in lawsuits, but in repealing the DMCA and replacing it with a "right of private action for prosecutions in IP." That's right, let copyright holders hire a lawyer and prosecute you. Think about it for a second. It makes them pay to prosecute you, which means your tax dollars don't get drained by endless hours of DOJ/US Attorney expansion and action. It also gives the copyright holders a real means to go after people that'd work in the USA. Lawsuits aren't too scary, private initivative on prosecution is to college students and other young file sharers. When 5,000 sit in prison, not getting hit up for a few grand, people will stand up and take notice.
Yes, it would cost the RIAA considerably more in the short term, but it'd put a deep chill on illegal file sharing use. I have lost my patience with people who steal from the labels and musicians and hide behind things like "oh I am just sampling." If I sample something off a newsgroup or something, I either delete it right away and buy the album or I delete it because it's pure shit not worth keeping on my hard drive or buying. A few of my friends work the same way, but most of my peers do not.
The only reason I still have some support for the "other side" is that if the RIAA and MPAA were left unchecked they'd make my computer into a VCR that can run Microsoft Office and licensed video games. But seriously, the copyright holders are not entirely wrong. There is a moral problem with those who say that no one gets hurt. We have already been forced to deal with the fact, thanks to people like Courtney Love, that the artists don't get a fair deal in most contracts. Are you going to compound that by making it even harder to get out of debt? I seriously doubt most of the whiners even buy merch or go see them live.
"Normal people" aren't nuanced, at least in America. They will end up just seeing a bunch of free loaders and will be too lazy to challenge the MPAA/RIAA's latest IT industry killing plan du jour. If you make moral arguments for your freedom to be left alone from the copyright holders, you have to be virtuous so that the people can see that you are a libertarian, not a libertine.
Re:The studios/labels should leave the MPAA/RIAA (Score:2)
Supposing, sadly, that you believe this notion, I should like to point o
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
We Are Visionaries! (Score:5, Funny)
Trouble us not with your lame questions! We are busy making the internet flourish!
Re:We Are Visionaries! (Score:2)
Level of integrity (Score:2, Insightful)
I would hate to think they are starting down the road of many other P2P companies which eventually start throwing spyware on your machine and making money the sleazy internet way.
Why they did this. (Score:5, Interesting)
Companies and universities use packet-shaping to stop and block P2P from taking up too much bandwidth. They wouldn't dare touch the data over SIP though, their bosses would kill them if the conference calls ever died.
Re:Why they did this. (Score:2)
Re:Why they did this. (Score:2)
Once set up, the media is a seperate connection. So your bosses conference call won't die more often if this application hogs the BW, but it might become impossible to actualy make or recieve the call in the first place...
=Shreak
hehh, being outpaced :) (Score:2)
While I still have the plans, I never started on it, and I most certainly will never have the time for it now, so I'm very happy and pleased to see such apps popping up.
SIP was and still is a personal favourite of mine for
CALEA (Score:3, Interesting)
Great Quote... (Score:2)
Sadly, I've found that even if you have even a basic problem, Earthlink Tech Support still has no idea what you are talking about. Three-cheers for outsourcing call-centers! Hip, hip...
Earthlink is a pretty good service, with very little down-time (so I don't call support often) but their support is terrible. So please, if you use Earthlink, you're on your own.
blocks socks smarts (Score:2, Funny)
Port 1080: SOCKS versions 4 & 5 - Same as Port 80 above.
that's a really smart inclusion, to proactively scan for vulnerable SOCKS hosts.
i remember way back when on irc, just scan chatters' hosts for open socks ports and try plugging their hosts into mirc if it bounced back, voila, 3/5 times i had a new hostname as visible on irc. unbannable, especially if using an ops hostname ^^
in wonder if that's still the case...
ya gotta plug the kiddie holes first, imho
(GOD could that be taken p
WRONG! It's my (ex-)ISP! (Score:1, Interesting)
WRONG!
That would be TERRA NETWORKS [terra.com.br].
They have JUST called me (last half hour) and woke me up to tell me that I was pirating a copy of Windows 2000 professional using "some kind of file sharing application", and that "in case of reincidency I would have my account cancelled" and legal measures etc etc
Needless to say, they got their butt cancelled in the same hour.
Re:WRONG! It's my (ex-)ISP! (Score:2)
Re:WRONG! It's my (ex-)ISP! (Score:2, Funny)
He should of said it like this:
He WAS using Windows 2000 to priate some other kind of free operating system using "some kind of file sharing application"
The intent is there & that sounds much better (esp. on
Re:WRONG! It's my (ex-)ISP! (Score:2)
I'm sure -all- ISP's care about what people are doing with THEIR bandwidth they're leasing to you.
Re:WRONG! It's my (ex-)ISP! (Score:2)
It's better than having the BSA knock down your door.
Re: FP (Score:1, Offtopic)
Free Speech Doesnt Apply Here (Score:2)
its only the government that is bound by those rules.
Too bad our founders could never have foresaw the commercialization of the world and accounted for it in their documents..