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Alan Cox to Leave if RH AOL Buyout Happens?

Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon Jan 21, 2002 12:26 PM
from the now-that-would-be-something dept.
According to MartinG, Alan has posted to the LKML and said "Im insulted that anyone believes I would continue working for RH if aol/time warner owned them. " This of course refers to the Red Hat/AOL Buyout Rumors that we have been talking about all weekend.
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  • Doesn't mean he'd stop kernel programming.. by popeydotcom (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:29PM
  • Good for him by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:30PM
    • Re:Good for him (Score:4, Insightful)

      by SuperDuG (134989) <be@ecle c . tk> on Monday January 21 2002, @12:52PM (#2876945) Homepage Journal
      Well leaving just because you don't like your boss is cocky ... and well at least Cox has a well-known name that would let him score a job somewhere else.

      I don't think anyone really likes their boss ... I mean you can get along with them, but you're not going to want to grab a beer after work with them and shoot the shit about all the pens you stole the day before from the storage closet because you're too lazy to take your kid school shoppin.

      Then there's the wonderfulness of ... AOL HASN'T BOUGHT RED HAT YET ... and throwing out these kinds of attitudes can definantelly cause you to loose your job even if there is no merger.

      AOL has yet to put massive controls on a company that they've acquired ... they're just looking for a solid investment ... AOL = online ... redhat = server ... these are just IT buzzwords ... and are recognizeable buzzwords ... hell I know quite a few people who will ask me if I run linux 6.2 or 7.1 ...

      But Cox really needs to look at who puts food on the table ... I know if I had a nifty little job where I could do what I enjoy ... I'd work to keep it ... with or without slashdot's approval.

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Good for him (Score:4, Insightful)

        by gmack (197796) <gmack@in[ ]fire.net ['ner' in gap]> on Monday January 21 2002, @12:59PM (#2876998) Homepage
        There are times when how much you enjoy a job depends on who's bottom line your contributing to.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Good for him (Score:5, Interesting)

        by MartinG (52587) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:07PM (#2877059) Homepage Journal
        I get on very well with my boss.
        I regularly grab a beer after work with him.
        I also often tell him to fsck off if he gives me work I don't like.

        It's a good thing and its based on honesty and mutual respect.

        If you don't have that, then you have to realise that many bosses will do whatever they can to exploit you as far as possible, and that old bullshit "putting the food on the table" is one of the buggest reasons It keeps on happening. Can't you see that if people weren't such cowards as to cave in to the "but how am I gonna pay the bills" argument then bosses would be forced to do more of what made their employees happy. All you "food on the table" bods are part of the problem allowing companies to become greedy and exploitative in the first place.

        If your employer knows that you fear leaving them, they are suddenly in an extremely powerful position over you.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Good for him by doorbot.com (Score:3) Monday January 21 2002, @01:35PM
        • Re:Good for him by maxpublic (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @03:12PM
        • hmmmm by PeelBoy (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @03:36PM
          • Re:hmmmm by WeedMonkey (Score:1) Tuesday January 22 2002, @09:23AM
            • Re:hmmmm by PeelBoy (Score:1) Tuesday January 22 2002, @10:58AM
              • Re:hmmmm by WeedMonkey (Score:1) Tuesday January 22 2002, @11:08AM
          • Re:hmmmm by PeelBoy (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @05:08PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:Good for him by Lumpy (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @04:09PM
        • Ending Line by cgleba (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @09:20PM
        • Re:Good for him by ahde (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @11:07PM
        • Re:Good for him by jedidiah (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:46PM
        • Remarks by virg_mattes (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @05:43PM
        • 4 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Good for him (Score:5, Insightful)

        by MisterBlister (539957) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:11PM (#2877085) Homepage
        Leaving your job because you don't like your boss may be cocky..But leaving your job because you don't agree with the policies of a company that has aquired you is completely different.

        Would anyone bat an eyelash if the potential buyer is Microsoft and Alan Cox said this?

        Well, many people feel that AOL/TW is just as bad as Microsoft... Microsoft is trying to control the computer OS and application space, AOL/TW is trying to control virtually EVERYTHING you see, hear or do ALL DAY EVERY DAY. Both have extremely questionable business practices, both abuse their positions of power. Which is worse?

        [ Parent ]
        • Re:M$ v. AOL by rifter (Score:1) Tuesday January 22 2002, @11:11AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Yeah, well... by slow_flight (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:21PM
      • Re:Good for him (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Arkham (10779) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:25PM (#2877197)
        It's crazy to think Alan is "cocky" for saying he would not work for AOL. I worked at CNN.com when AOL bought Time Warner, and I left before the deal could go through because I didn't want to work for AOL.

        Lest you think I'm just another lunatic, about 15 of the 20 developers I worked with also left around that time. Of the developers that remained, only one of them was a developer of any quality, and he was big into MS tools.

        My point is, working for a faceless conglomerate is one thing. Working for one with significant philosophical differences from your own is another thing entirely.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Good for him (Score:4, Offtopic)

          by Jay L (74152) <jay+slash AT jay DOT fm> on Monday January 21 2002, @01:34PM (#2877270) Homepage
          Just so I'm following...

          You left *TIME WARNER* because you didn't like *AOL's* philosophy?

          I'd love to hear more about that, in private if you like.
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Good for him (Score:4, Offtopic)

            by Arkham (10779) on Monday January 21 2002, @02:28PM (#2877648)
            > Just so I'm following...
            > You left *TIME WARNER* because you didn't
            > like *AOL's* philosophy?

            I had no problem working for CNN (which was owned but not managed by Time Warner). CNN was committed to providing unbiased news, and I felt they delivered on that promise.

            I was there from 1998 to 4/2000. CNN employees felt like Turner employees, not Time Warner. You would have had to have been there to understand that. CNN was like a family.

            Well before AOL even began to talk "merger" (which is what they told us it was), we were in talks to provide them with news feeds (CBS's contract was expiring). I got a glimpse into their idea of technology working as a developer on that project, and it was truly frightening how bass-ackwards they did things. The project eventually got canned and I gained some insight into their management during that debacle.

            When the deal was announced I was wary of working for AOL, but I took a wait-and-see attitude. When I started seeing the changes they were making before the merger even went through, I saw all I needed, and I left in April 2000.

            If I look at the CNN web site today, I feel it's worse today than it was 2 years ago when I worked there. I blame the acquisition by AOL for those problems, and I am glad I don't work there anymore.

            As to your implication, the DMCA did not exist back then. The RIAA was not making headlines. From my perspective, Time Warner was mainly a company that made movies, DVDs, CDs, and books. I did not associate a political philosophy with them. I'm not sure if I would feel the same about them now (but maybe I would). AOL on the other hand is just as bad as Microsoft when it comes to dirty business practices. They're just not quite as good at it.
            [ Parent ]
          • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:Good for him by jazman_777 (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:56PM
      • it's called ethics! by Juju (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:26PM
      • SuperDuG, you're such a tool by JoeBuck (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:33PM
      • Re:Good for him by pivo (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:53PM
      • Re:Good for him by rjamestaylor (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:12PM
      • Re:Good for him by The Cat (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @02:16PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Good for him by The Cat (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:18PM
      • Re:Good for him by jedidiah (Score:3) Monday January 21 2002, @02:43PM
      • Re:Good for him by poemofatic (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @03:46PM
      • Re:Good for him by GreyPoopon (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @03:56PM
      • Has Alan's message been authenticated? by CaWAJuGA (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @07:12PM
      • 5 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Good for him (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Erasmus Darwin (183180) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:54PM (#2876962)
      "It's good to see that *someone* on the Internet isn't so willing to sell out."

      Is getting financial benefits, in and of itself, really selling out? In my mind, selling out comes when you actually start compromising your art for the sake of cash.

      Whether or not it's selling out is something we can't really decide until we know what AOL's plans are for RedHat. If, for example, it's part of an effort to displace Microsoft, it's feasible that AOL might be content to just throw extra money at RedHat to get some of the classic Linux desktop usability problems solved.

      On the other hand, it's possible that AOL might turn RedHat into one giant AOL ad. Just as they've done with ICQ and Netscape, they could coat RedHat in an annoying layer of ads designed to increase their user base.

      Overall, though, I don't think it's fair to call it selling out just yet. It's possible for AOL to benefit from this action without compromising RedHat.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Good for him by Milliardo (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:56PM
    • Re:Good for him by Silver222 (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @04:11PM
    • Re:Good for him by Ron Atkinson (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @04:19PM
    • Re:Good for him by mazor (Score:1) Tuesday January 22 2002, @01:22AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by FortKnox (169099) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:31PM (#2876763) Homepage Journal
    Linux out in the open, with big company backing?

    Or, are we going to start up with the "elitest want Linux to stay small"?

    Linux (even the RedHat distro) has the GPL protecting it. Even AOL/TW's big lawyers can't break it. Why is it such a bad thing??
  • by LordOfYourPants (145342) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:33PM (#2876774)
    Alan Cox develops a kernel for an OS which is exchanged on the Internet. The Internet was invented by Al Gore. Al Gore uses AOL. Who's your daddy?
  • Wouldn't that kill the deal? by Desmoden (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:33PM
  • You can't *buy* employees... by sheldon (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:33PM
  • Good for you Alan by CDWert (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:33PM
  • nice words words Alan, (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sluggie (85265) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:34PM (#2876791)
    but you forgot to give a reason.

    AOL bought ICQ, AOL bought Winamp.
    Did anyone notice that one of those products did really change to the worse (besides the ads in ICQ, which is ok I guess because they are not that annoying)?

    No, no one noticed, because they didn't.

    But what changed is that the coders of ICQ and Winamp got nice paychecks.

    So, Alan where is your problem?
    Don't like opensource OS coders who dare to make money?
  • You've Got FUD by Multiple Sanchez (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:35PM
  • by sinserve (455889) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:35PM (#2876793)
    Cuz the guy must be a star!

    Seriously, I salute the man for standing up for his
    principles, but I don't think his "pre-judgement"
    should receive such an attention.

    He already works for a corporation, if the new
    parent company promises to continue supporting the
    spirit of the old company, and remains commited to
    open source, then ACs comments are unjustified.
    Atleast in my humble opinion.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Can RH prevent this? by kimodo (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:35PM
  • Not just Alan, the user base (Score:4, Insightful)

    by crow (16139) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:36PM (#2876801) Homepage Journal
    Not only will Alan Cox probably leave Red Hat, but much of the userbase will leave. While Red Hat is a for-profit company, it is generally respected within the open source community for being solidly supportive of the community. AOL/TW, however, despite its good works regarding Mozilla, has no such reputation. The TW side of AOL, in particular, is very much a part of the traditional copyright establishment; the same establishment that opposes open-source DVD players and is pushing for additional copyright protection measures that would exclude the possibility of open-source support.

    So if Red Hat is bought by AOL, I expect much of their user base will move to Mandrake, Debian, and Suse.
  • The history would repeat itself (Score:5, Insightful)

    by felipeal (177452) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:37PM (#2876805) Homepage
    Jamie Zawinski left netscape, as shown here [jwz.org] and here [jwz.org] shortly after it was AOLized. Here are some highlights from those pages:

    April 1st, 1999 will be my last day as an employee of the Netscape Communications division of America Online, and my last day working for mozilla.org.

    I think AOL still has all the stigma that it always has, as far as image goes. My friends keep saying ``jwz@aol.com'' and then laughing uncontrollably...

    AOL is about centralization and control of content. Everything that is good about the Internet, everything that differentiates it from television, is about empowerment of the individual.
    I don't want to be a part of an effort that could result in the elimination of all that.
    • by hatless (8275) on Monday January 21 2002, @04:29PM (#2878404)
      It was good for Mozilla and Netscape 6.x when jwz left. It was under him that the project scope kept changing, the notion of scheduled milestone releases went out the window, and most of the good longtime coders left.

      It was after he left that the team began releasing frequent milestone builds, stopped adding major new features to the project plan, and.. showed signs of having a plan.

      The Mozilla/Netscape 6 project is still a mess, with bug fixes and addition of missing features slated for a given milestone pushed off to infinity on a regular basis. But without jwz, it at least resembles a project and has produced what is now a decent browser and mail/news client.

      Mr. Zawinski is now running a bar, and the world of software development is blissfully free of his project management "skills".

      Alan Cox--who unlike jwz is a really sharp coder and a good project leader--is showing himself to be just as much a child, spoiled and twisted by too much time spent in academic computing, shooting his mouth off before he's got a real situation to evaluate. Hey. If AOL turns Red Hat into an unpleasant place by changing its focus in distressing ways, or by engaging in massive, traumatic waves of layoffs, of course he'd be right in leaving. If Red Hat lets him pick his projects and AOL instead wants him to port the AIM stock ticker to KDE or sit in meetings all day, of course he'd be justified in leaving.

      But this knee-jerk aversion to a parent company just because it's a big company? Or because of AOL's commitment to actual ease of use that Cox, jwz and RMS all abhor?

      What if AOL is trying to assemble all the pieces necessary to go after Microsoft with Free Software? Doesn't Red Hat also employ some Postgres maintainers? If they bought Staroffice/Openoffice from Sun, they'd be on their way to something mighty compelling. If an AOL-owned Red Hat lets him continue working on low-level kernel pieces and device drivers while they fund an aggressive desktop-oriented Red Hat, why wouldn't he want to come along for the ride? Because they also own an old-line record label and film studio with rabidly protected intellectual property? Okay.

      I wish the best of luck to any company, school or organization that wants these guys on its payroll.
      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by SimplyCosmic (15296) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:37PM (#2876807) Homepage
    AOL/TW is up there with Microsoft in terms of average Linux community member, for even if most people don't outright hate them, they think of them as the haven for the spammers and the clueless.

    As I said it's a matter of perception.

    Now, while AOL/TW wouldn't care one bit about all the Linux users ceasing to use RedHat products (their goal in buying the company, after all, would be to use its knowledge to create a AOL-OS) it cerainly could help on RedHat's end, as they'd lose any and all goodwill that they have from the community.

    And when a significant amount of work is saved for a Linux company by having the community on your side and contributing various things, this certainly would be nothing but a pain for them.
  • RedHat is no longer an OS. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AugstWest (79042) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:37PM (#2876809)
    It is now a brand. Like Coke, or Tommy Hilfiger.

    Thank you, AOL, for pointing this out to us.
  • Not that surprising by archen (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:37PM
  • This could be dumb. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Verteiron (224042) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:38PM (#2876812) Homepage
    If he does leave, he loses his chance to put the resources of an enormous company like AOL/TW behind the development and acceptance of Linux. To me this doesn't seem like the smartest move he could make.

    There's plenty of time for him to leave afterwards if it looks like AOL/TW is going to do a Bad Thing, but up to and until that time, I think it's in his best interests, and Linux's best interests, to take advantage of the possible benefits of being backed by one of the largest, richest companies on the planet.
    • Re:This could be dumb. (Score:4, Insightful)

      If he does leave, he loses his chance to put the resources of an enormous company like AOL/TW behind the development and acceptance of Linux. To me this doesn't seem like the smartest move he could make.

      Nope. Perhaps you have not worked with/for AOL/TimeWarner, or any Very Large Corporation (tm)?

      There is no way on God's green earth that Alan Cox will be put in the position of Project Manager or any position of real power. Therefore, the assertion that he is giving up this imaginary position is untenable.

      Only Steve Case and the other executive committee/steering council weenines decide what goes into RedHat and what its primary focus is - Alan has *much* more influence as is. After the merger he will be at best a small fish in a *big* pond.

      I would seriously run for the door if i was him - we can use his talents to more productive use than being a lackie for AOL.

      ..Brent

      [ Parent ]
  • AOL only RedHat? by estoll (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:38PM
  • Does OS brand loyalty exist? by Medievalist (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:38PM
  • Question Is: Where would he go? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dbretton (242493) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:38PM (#2876817) Homepage
    The fact that Alan Cox would leave RH if bought by AOL/TW is not a big deal. RH != Linux. That is, he wouldn't leave the kernel project altogether to pursue a life as a skydiver or the like.

    A good question is: who would pick him up?

    I could definitely see IBM bending over backwards to get Alan, but would he work IBM, given IBM's overwhelming Linux support?
    Mandrake might be a good fit, seeing as their distro is similar to RH. Then again, the fact that they have centralized their development out of France might not be a good deal for him...
  • two opinions by itzdandy (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:38PM
  • Gee, get named to the T100 and ya get all huffy ! by beanerspace (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:39PM
  • Stupid AOL by DJStealth (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:39PM
    • Re:Stupid AOL by Syberghost (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:54PM
    • Re:Stupid AOL by philglanville (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @02:31PM
  • Linux is popular. Get over it. by Mighty-Troll (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:40PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • what if by -ryan (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:41PM
    • Re:what if by oconnorcjo (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:45PM
    • Re:what if by Tony-A (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:06PM
  • How many users will switch distros if AOL buys RH? by DJStealth (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:42PM
  • This is a Good Thing(tm) (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dbretton (242493) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:44PM (#2876875) Homepage
    If RH is acquired, then you better believe that AOL/TW would drive RH to become a company that supported the AOL/TW initiative (i.e. world domination by AOL/TW).

    AOL/TW is an 800lb gorilla.
    MS is an 800lb gorilla.

    The RH acquisition would be like giving one of them a dart-gun: while it may hurt, it would stil only be a little weapon.

    As a consequence, RH's gameplan would change from Red Hat Domination via Linux to AOL/TW world domination. Linux is dropped from the big picture, and only becomes a little piece of the puzzle.

    Having Alan leave for a company that would support the World Domination thru Linux initiative (like Mandrake or SuSe, or Debian) would be a good thing for Linux.
  • What a martyr! (Score:4, Flamebait)

    by SuperRob (31516) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:44PM (#2876876) Homepage
    Way to go, Alan. Rather than make sure that Red Hat REMAINS what you've strived to make it, you'd pack up your bags before you know what AOL's plans are. You'd rather leave than be associated with the company. You'd help contribute to RedHat FAILING under AOL rather than make it what it SHOULD be.

    Standing up for your ideals is one thing, but by leaving, you're tossing those exact same ideals out the door.

    I'd much rather suck up my pride and tell people that I was employed by AOL, but trying to make it better, then tell people I gave up rather than try.
  • Shocked -- well, no not really by prisoner-of-enigma (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:46PM
  • AOL buying RH may not be that bad.... by Orangedog_on_crack (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:46PM
  • Enough dissing AOL (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2002, @12:48PM (#2876906)
    This is not a troll, just something I wanted to get off my chest. I don't work for AOL (heh, or Red Hat) or use AOL.

    I'll post anonymously, and nobody will see this unless it gets moderated up. Moderators, this post is at your mercy.

    AOL has done a lot for the net by getting a lot of people online in places that would not otherwise have had access. Sure, many of these people are lamers who ask stupid questions. But they learn. And then they can come to contribute. Diversity is a GOOD thing, but in order to have diversity, we do have to put up with a bit of noise. That's life. The real problem with AOL is not the users, but the fact that AOL builds a kind of fake internet that tries to contain its users inside a mall full of commercials. But give them a break. Noone else has as many dialups for the little towns out in the boondocs. In that respect they are doing a great thing. Even if they are making money at it.
  • Morale grounds by aralin (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:49PM
  • Damn... (Score:3, Funny)

    by voodoo_bluesman (255725) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:49PM (#2876924) Homepage
    Now I'll be getting Redhat at least three times a week in my mailbox...
  • Sounds like a lame ultimatum. by grub (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:51PM
  • Don't get mad Alan... by ImaLamer (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:52PM
    • Re:Don't get mad Alan... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jay L (74152) <jay+slash AT jay DOT fm> on Monday January 21 2002, @01:06PM (#2877049) Homepage
      And this is exactly the biggest danger of AOL buying a company - and in one sense, it IS what happened with Netscape.

      Don't worry about AOL taking an established, successful company with a real future and running it into the ground. Hasn't happened yet. (Netscape, GNN, CompuServe were already dying when we bought them. CompuServe is a relative success, GNN couldn't be saved, and Netscape has a new lease on life now that the MS contract is dead.)

      Don't worry about AOL taking open stuff and making it proprietary. Hasn't happened yet either. (Everything that's proprietary at AOL started that way, and has slowly, if much-too-slowly, grown more open.)

      Don't worry about TW's influence on the AOL side. There isn't any. Steve Case and Bob Pittman run the show.

      Worry, instead, about people who simply don't want to be associated with AOL, cuz it isn't cool. Is it immature and short-sighted? Probably. Are geeks known for their maturity, social competence and rational decision-making? Not particularly.

      Too bad, because when AOL buys a smaller company, that's usually what they're really buying - the brains behind it. Redgate got us Ted Leonsis. WAIS got us Brewster Kahle for a while. Netscape got us hundreds of net-savvy software engineers. Ditto CompuServe. Medior got us Barry Schuler - well, can't win them all.

      It's stupid for Red Hat employees to announce they'll leave simply because they don't want a triangle with an O above their main entrance, but if they do, then THEY will have killed Red Hat, not AOL.
      [ Parent ]
  • Hurray For Not Selling Out! by Grassferry49 (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:53PM
  • and what about cygnus by scirocco (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:53PM
  • Why RedHat? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2002, @12:53PM (#2876957)
    My biggest question is, "Why RedHat?"

    If AOL is making a push into the desktop OS market, like some leaked memo's said before, why RedHat? Someone else mentinoed reading about AOL pushing into the web appliance market like the WebTV boxes.

    In either case, why are they looking to buy RedHat? They could very easily hire 1/2 dozen talented admins and programmers to put together their own distribution in 6 months or less. I'd personally be more than happy to be collecting a nice steady paycheck from a company I know is going to be doing well no matter what.

    The scenerio we've come across that seems to work logically is that RedHat is having financial problems, and they're looking for a buyer. If this is the case, Alan is screwed anyways.

    If they don't find a buyer, he's out of work.

    If they find a small buyer, he'll take a paycut, or potentially loose his job anyways.

    If they find a big buyer, he'll cry that a big company got him.

    I think Alan is trying to cry like JWZ . He doesn't know how to handle the whole thing, so he knows another hacker cried about the same type deal years ago. Not saying JWZ was right or wrong, but that was years ago with a different scenerio.

    AOL adopting Linux is a great thing. He should recognize and embrace it. I'd rather see them develop their own distribution though. The more big companies that start working with Linux the better. That's how Micro$oft got into the market, they got everyone to start working with them.

  • This would be a *GOOD* Thing by cybrthng (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:54PM
  • Is everyone forgetting the point? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sethadam1 (530629) <adam@@@firsttube...com> on Monday January 21 2002, @12:55PM (#2876969) Homepage
    The point here is that AOL wants 1) an established Linux name 2) a solid base for their own interactive OS that can be web-enabled and coupled with their service 3) a product written in a language that many can already program. They don't give a shit about Alan Cox or current Linux users and, frankly, they shouldn't. The existing code is GPL'ed anyway, so we have nothing to whine about - they can't kill Linux. My guess is by the time AOLLinx or AOLos hits the streets it looks and feels nothing like Linux and doesn't even attempt to compete with Linux as we know it today.
  • WTF cares? by Syberghost (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:56PM
  • Slashdot Alaska ?!? by Mr.Phil (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:58PM
  • by ishmalius (153450) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:59PM (#2876997)
    If anyone recalls, AOL needed Netscape so that they would have a cross-platform player for their content, especially on their planned Internet devices. Wouldn't they also need an OS on which Mozilla-based products could run?

    Yes, this could be a corporate dilution of a community-supported company. But it might also be an awesome opportunity to expand Linux's presence infinitely.

    Certainly a corporate giant such as AOLTW is not a philanthropic patron, but maybe they will support Linux the way they have supported a profitless project like Mozilla for years. Not for charity, but enlightened self-interest.

  • let's not forget who owns Netscape... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rahga (13479) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:05PM (#2877041) Homepage Journal
    ...honestly though, my only real beef against the entire inbred megacorporation is their cable division. I don't believe that "utilities" which are granted government monopolies should have any ties to outside industries from inside that utility. If you hold government-granted control over a certain crop of power lines, you shouldn't be able to push for a patented power outlet that directly links you to other products you produce.

    Remember when Time-Warner cable said "Disney took your ABC away?" in New York... Those problems will only get worse as AOL Time Warner push more of their own content down "their" pipelines.
  • RH - AOL - MS by Konster (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:07PM
  • Who says... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by polar_bear` (29382) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:08PM (#2877062) Homepage Journal
    that the deal is about Red Hat's Linux assets, anyway?

    Red Hat has some pretty nice embedded stuff going on, and a big name in the market. AOL may very well want Red Hat to provide some type of embedded Internet appliance that will allow them to bypass M$.

    Think about this:
    AOLinux/Red Hat appliance that uses a Mozilla front-end (like the OEOne device) to connect to Sun Liberty Alliance systems and utilizes Sun's Star Office and stores files on AOL servers (powered by Sun or Linux...).

    Alan doesn't figure highly into such a plan, but eCos and other Red Hat technologies would.
  • Reasons Why (Score:5, Funny)

    by briggsb (217215) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:13PM (#2877116)
    Here are 11 reasons why [bbspot.com] AOLTW might be considering buying Red Hat.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by mlg9000 (515199) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:14PM (#2877122)
    Sure AOL bought Winamp, ICQ, and Netscape and left them mostly unchanged... but that's the problem! Can anyone honestly think of any real improvements made to any of these pieces of software since AOL bought them out? Winamp added that useless browser and that's it... ICQ added "cute" icons and turned into the first spam IM service... Netscape, how long did it take to come up with a new browser that still can't compete with IE? AOL also bought out the cable companies and look what's happened there. Prices are going up. (Read the $230 a month ./ story from last week) Service levels are going down. AOL\TW will just use Redhat as leverage against Microsoft, they aren't going to bring Linux to the desktop! Get real people! As far as I'm conserned AOL is a MUCH bigger threat then MS ever was.
  • the real reason aol wants redhat by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:16PM
  • I wonder by frameshift (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:22PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by MisterBlister (539957) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:22PM (#2877177) Homepage
    Why is everyone so hostile towards Alan Cox about this?

    AOL/TW (The TimeWarner part is very important, this isn't your daddy's AOL anymore, where elitest-non-AOL-attitude might be the primary driving force in Alan's decision) is not just any old large company.

    As I mentioned in another post (a reply, actually), if the company considering buying AOL was Microsoft, nobody would bat an eyelash about Alan Cox saying this stuff. Well guess what? AOL/TimeWarner is just as bad, if not worse, than Microsoft. Not only are they wanting to control computer use as much as Microsoft does (just doing a poorer job of it), but they want to control virtually everything you do! Do you have any idea how much of everything you see at the movies or on TV or on the web is eventually controlled by AOL? In many ways they are much more powerful than Microsoft has ever been.

    AOL/TW (again, TW being important) is directly involved in much of the backassward technology & lawmaking that Slashdotters decry every day: DMCA, copyrighted CDs, SDMI...

    If you REALLY disagree with those laws and the very idea of huge media conglomerations controlling everything we see, how could you possibly suggest someone should just shut up and be happy working for AOL/TimeWarner?

    I'm one of the people who often attack Linux users and programmers for their stupid elitest attitudes, but in this case I say bravo, Alan.

  • The enemy of my enemy not NECESSARILY my friend! by penguin_dance (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:24PM
  • It's about money by kyras (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:24PM
  • If AOL bought red hat, wouldn't that be good by xg0blin (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:24PM
  • AOL are NOT interested in Linux!! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nagora (177841) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:24PM (#2877191)
    Wake up! AOL are in so way, shape, or form, interested in Linux. What they are interested in is control of content. They will quite happily move "their" Linux (and the general public will quickly see AOL Linux as being Linux) into a nightmare of propriety changes and patches and no one other than MS has the cash to do anything about it. not Linus, not Alan Cox, not the EFF, and not the FSF. These guys will go through the GPL like an elephant through rice-paper.

    AOL will not be happy to have competing version of Linux and they will do what is needed to "standardise" Linux after they have bought it.

    And that will be their attitude - they will not act as if they've bought just one distro. Think about why they want to buy RH. They know that, to the extent that the public know about Linux at all, they think of RH (at least in the US). So they are, in the eyes of the general public, buying Linux. For god's sake, how many posts have there been on /. over the years complaining about people equating RH and Linux!?

    With this approach, what do you think AOL's attitude to SuSe and Mandrake will be - a spirit of healthy competition? Does they sound like AOL/TW to you?

    AOL's one worry in the world is losing the content control war to MS. They will want, and try to make, one, standardised, non-MS, copy-regulated, platform for their content and that is why they want Linux - because they can't have Windows. Standardised means not letting "little guys" do their own Linux and they will do what it takes to get rid of them.

    Do not fall into the Charybdis of AOL just to avoid the Scylla of MS!

    TWW

  • What's the worst that can happen? by markmoss (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:30PM
  • AOL/TW == !Linux (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rogerborg (306625) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:31PM (#2877244) Homepage

    What a strange assumption I keep reading, that AOL-Time Warner actually have any interest in Red Hat Linux in particualr, or GNU/Linux in general. What advantage would that give them, distributing an OS that actively encourages its users to get a clue and consider alternatives?

    What I'd expect to see is for them to buy up a bunch of developers (Red Hat or any other) and set them to work in the bowels of the AOL/TW Death Star producing something based on a Linux kernel, with most of GNU stripped out, no daemons, no package manager, no compiler, a brand new GUI, AOL-only apps with built in copy restrictions and automatic billing (already got your credit card number), and a daemon that hunts down and kills non-AOL approved processes, all for your security and convenience. I expect it to ship branded as "AOL", not "Red Hat" or even "AOL Linux". Possibly "Secure Linux" if they want to resell it as a perfect Son of SSSCA compliant implementation.

    Impossible, you say? How much would it cost to develop? Ten million? Twenty? Fifty? A hundred million? A billion dollars? To control the desktop and the distribution and billing of content before Microsoft get in there first with Blackcomb and Homestation, that's pocket change.

    They don't need any particular distro to do that, they just need developers. So run Alan, run for the hills, and take as many as you can with you.

  • It's the PRINCIPLE, Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Eagle7 (111475) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:36PM (#2877286) Homepage
    IANAlan Cox, but what 99% of the people in this discussion fail to realize is that this probably has nothing to do with the future of Redhat/Linux, but with the principles involved.

    Fact: Alan Cox has serious issues [linuxsecurity.com] with the DMCA, both practical and philosophical.

    Fact: AOL/Time-Warner, being an industry leader in the area of movies and such, is a proponent [loc.gov] of the DMCA and other similar laws.

    Alan, being a man of principle, probably feels that the merger would be a bad thing becuase of this, and his working in the resulting company would comprimise things that he believes in. Unlike many people in this world (and, it seems, on slashdot), he feels the finding a new job is the proper course of action in this case.

    As an aside, the non-Alan consequences of this are interesting - AOL/TW owns RH, in order for RH to play DVDs (which is an important feature of a modern desktop OS) it needs to violate the DMCA, AOL/TW supports the DMCA. So with AOL/TW owns a product that endorses breaking the DMCA, or they give RH (and by that, perhaps all of Linux/x86) a "legal" (if not open) method to play DVDs.
  • Hey - by loraksus (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:39PM
  • Alan Cox == So What by pclminion (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:42PM
  • To All the fear freaks by Shadowin (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:44PM
  • This might not be so bad... by Uttles (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:45PM
  • It's just rumors! by KjetilK (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:53PM
  • Why blame AOL? by Freija Crescent (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @01:56PM
  • If this happens, it's the end... by Oswald (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @01:58PM
  • It all boils down to... by nam37 (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @02:02PM
  • blimey by SKicker (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:03PM
  • Give me a break... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mustang Matt (133426) on Monday January 21 2002, @02:04PM (#2877460)
    That's just plain and simple narrowminded.

    I hate AOL as much as the next person, but for all you Netscape fans out there, if it weren't for AOL, netscape would not be around. (This would actually have been a blessing to those of us developing websites.)

    AOL has a lot of money. Who's to say that they won't offer Alan an agreement such as, "We won't interfere or tell you what to do, we'll simply keep paying your bills."

    Maybe even give Alan more resources than he currently has to get things done.

    I thought linux was suppossed to be for the openminded person who can think past windows. Shouldn't the development be the same way?
  • So, will AOL.... by Junta (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @02:07PM
  • RH != Linux by borgheron (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @02:08PM
  • window dressing by rabbits77 (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @02:08PM
  • Attention Red Hat folks by jd (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @02:09PM
  • AOL For Linux by LowellPorter (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @02:10PM
  • Slashdot Editorial Sensationalism by Anderlan (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:11PM
  • Remember the past by lkaos (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:24PM
  • One question... by jparker (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:34PM
  • Four words by acroyear (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:35PM
    • Re:Four words by IntlHarvester (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @04:06PM
      • Re:Four words by acroyear (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @04:38PM
  • Insult? Why, Alan? by dinotrac (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @02:51PM
  • another take by MSG (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @03:08PM
  • Great spirit, what a community. by WildBeast (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @03:11PM
  • AOL needs an established name? by NotDialtone (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @03:13PM
  • Why the GPL is an Albatross around Cox's Neck by Plugh (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @03:20PM
  • Bob Young selling stock! by molo (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @03:55PM
  • Would someone please give Alan some credit! by SashaM (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @03:59PM
  • Errrr... by selmer (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @04:02PM
  • Cool.. by someonehasmyname (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @04:09PM
  • If he wants to leave redhat, let him! by Restil (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @04:12PM
  • But AOLserver... by gruntvald (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @04:38PM
  • AOL Buyout Rumor is False by dananderson (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @04:47PM
  • Hmmm....buy Lindows instead! by YeOldeCurmudgeon (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @05:01PM
  • Same here by mnordstr (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @05:09PM
    • Re:Same here by Rubbersoul (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @05:21PM
  • In defense of AOL and Alan Cox by LunaticLeo (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @05:28PM
  • The Alternative: Red Hat out of business. by dybdahl (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @05:34PM
  • Just wondering... by wdr1 (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @05:45PM
  • get over it by GravySkin (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @05:55PM
  • Someone important with morals... Great! by fire-eyes (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @05:58PM
  • AOL/TW is just too big,,, by shic (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @06:02PM
  • Top 11 Reasons AOL Wants to buy Red Hat by Ironix (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @06:13PM
  • Might be a good thing....for at least somebody. by EvilStein (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @06:34PM
  • who gives a fat rat's ass by whereisthelinuxhypen (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @07:22PM
  • Strange judgment about what constitutes news by inkswamp (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @08:00PM
  • I respect his position by MZoom (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @11:20PM
  • Re:Whooptie fucking doo (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dreamchaser (49529) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:31PM (#2876765) Homepage Journal
    Because if a major corporation buys a distro like Red Hat, or any other for that matter, it will reduce the elitist factor of Linux users.

    Heaven forbid that a company with the clout to get Linux out to the masses get involved. Then Linux might not be just for the computer savvy anymore.

    The ongoing hypocricy astounds me. Most Linux users don't seem to really want Linux to succeed. Having used Linux since long before it was 'fashionable' to do so, I for one hope that if this purchase comes to pass, it helps get Linux out to the unwashed masses of computer users out there.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Quick heads up, Alan (Score:4, Insightful)

    by RollingThunder (88952) on Monday January 21 2002, @12:39PM (#2876831)
    Nobody ever said that sticking to your principles was painless.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Quick heads up, Alan (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rlowe69 (74867) <ryanlowe_AThotmailDOTcom> on Monday January 21 2002, @12:39PM (#2876833) Homepage
    It's okay to stand your ground Alan, but in this economy [nasdaq.com] even a kernel God may find alternative employment hard to come by.

    I hardly feel as though I have to defend Alan Cox, but he's not one-dimensional. He knows much more than just the Linux kernel and as far as I can remember he didn't even work in the operating systems business before he started working for RedHat (was it telecom? I don't know for sure).

    But how this post gets modded up is beyond me (and that's why I'm picking on it). It's obvious Alan is a very very good software developer. Who cares how bad the economy is, good developers can get a job anywhere.

    It's the bad developers that need to worry when the economy goes sour.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Could be worse.. by Stone Rhino (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:40PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Quick heads up, Alan by ferat (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @12:41PM
  • Re:Quick heads up, Alan by pubjames (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:48PM
  • Here's a thought by prisoner-of-enigma (Score:2) Monday January 21 2002, @12:55PM
  • Re:Who really cares? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by polar_bear` (29382) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:01PM (#2877011) Homepage Journal
    Ever hear someone who develops the HP-UX or AIX kernel blast of a bunch of half baked political rants?

    1. The AIX and HP-UX kernel devel lists probably aren't open for public view, so we really don't know what they talk about.

    2. Some of the programmers probably do make political statements -- who doesn't? -- but they don't get much attention because they're not as well known.

    3. If you look at Linux as the equivalent to Sun or IBM, Alan is about at the same level as Bill Joy or Larry Ellison over at Oracle. They make political statements all the time. Alan is employed by Red Hat partly because of his skill and also because of his status in the Linux community. They could hire someone just as talented, probably, but they wouldn't have the same priviledges when it comes to working on the kernel. Red Hat can't buy that priviledge -- it has to settle for hiring someone who has it, or submitting code to someone who does.

    4. If you disagree with Mr. Cox, that's all well and good -- it wasn't his choice for someone to report his statement on the mailing list. He's discussing something in his usual forum. The fact that it's been widely reported and speculated over is not his fault, nor do I really think he's trying to call undue attention to his opinion.

    Obviously, many people do care what Alan thinks -- why does that bother you?
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Who really cares? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by j7953 (457666) on Monday January 21 2002, @01:41PM (#2877314)
    Ever hear someone who develops the HP-UX or AIX kernel blast of a bunch of half baked political rants? i don't think so...

    Yes, if you work with them, probably. I'd guess they sometimes chat about politics in their offices just like anyone else is doing.

    The office of Linux kernel hackers is the internet. So, when Alan chats with his co-workers, everyone on the net can see that. This doesn't mean he's arrogant or feels like a mighty political figure or something. This impression is created only by the free software world's tabloid press (i.e. Slashdot). It's not like Alan asked for this story to appear on Slashdot, did he?

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Whooptie fucking doo by tgrossner (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @03:19PM
  • Illegal transmission of dangerous content by Netw0rkAssh0liates (Score:1) Monday January 21 2002, @07:11PM
  • 44 replies beneath your current threshold.
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