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New Wheel of Time Author Chosen
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Dec 10, 2007 01:49 PM
from the better-late-than-never dept.
from the better-late-than-never dept.
kdean06 writes "Brandon Sanderson has been chosen by Tor Books to finish the best-selling Wheel of Time fantasy series by the late Robert Jordan. Harriet, Jordan's widow, chose him after reading his Mistborn series. An interview is also available via Dragonmount.com."
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Fantasy Author Robert Jordan Passes Away 571 comments
willith writes "James Oliver Rigney Jr, author of the long-running fantasy series The Wheel of Time and better known to millions of fans by the pen name Robert Jordan, died on 16 Sept 2007 from cardiac amyloidosis. Jordan announced he had been diagnosed with the disease in March 2006 and vowed to beat the odds, but determination and gumption sometimes just aren't enough in the face of a disease with a median survival time of just over two years. Jordan was in the process of writing the twelfth and final book in the Wheel of Time series, A Memory of Light, but the book was not slated for release until 2009 and is still incomplete. While there is hope that the book will still be finished from Jordan's notes, this is devastating news to all of us who have been reading the series since 1990."
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And to think... (Score:4, Funny)
Wait, What? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wait, What? (Score:5, Funny)
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Whew! That was close... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sure that was poppycock... heh heh... right?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Your next mission, should you choose to accept it, (Score:5, Informative)
You know what to do.
Re:Your next mission, should you choose to accept (Score:3)
I do not think it means what you think it means (Score:3, Funny)
Suddenly, the word "Edit" has lost all meaning.
Kill some people this time. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's always been the issue with these books is that Jordan created a handful of characters, then added a few side characters and said "Oh my these are interesting let's flesh them out!" and he did...over 10 f'n books worth of side characters!
G.Martin, Glenn Cooke, Dan Abnett, all are good sci-fi/fantasy writers that can handle multiple characters and wack them off at a whim and leave you feeling that you are sad to see them go but there's a reason they are gone and the story moves on. These hangers on from seachan whichs to aes sedai, to aielmen of the north to whatever in the later books all come and STAY. Noone leaves the main thread, hence why his books are 1k pages long and full of worthless fluff "She fluffs her green jade dress full of sparkling diamonds while pulling on her hair and frowning at "
I was able to carve the book down by 1/3 by simply ignoring most of the side plots and only reading stuff that concerned Rand,Matt,Perin. If it didn't involve them I didn't care, I moved along.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, but... (Score:4, Funny)
That's why they chose him (Score:3, Informative)
UUUMMMMMMMM (Score:5, Informative)
All I can say is... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:All I can say is... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
He's also reported as saying "it's obvious" who is the killer :-\
Book Twelve. The End (Score:4, Informative)
This IS the end (Score:5, Informative)
Note that I'm not saying there won't be more Wheel of Time material released. That's not up to me. There were notes for prequels (Mr. Jordan wrote one of a planned three) and some notes on what happened to certain characters after the end of book 12. However, those are all intended as extra information and separate books outside the Wheel of Time main series.
Book 12 will deal with the final battle and give resolution to the story started in EYE OF THE WORLD. It will be one volume if it's within my power to make it so.
--Brandon Sanderson (Who really needs to sign up and get a Slashdot account sometime.)
teh s3cr3t!!1!! (Score:3, Funny)
Have some respect, guys (Score:5, Insightful)
I won't say you're wrong (though personally I think you are) because it's largely a matter of opinion - but to claim that everyone else is wasting their time is just plain rude. If it's too long for you, move on - don't tell everyone else they're stupid for reading the series. I happen to love long books and long series with deep characters and plots - even if it's frustrating sometimes.
It reminds me of the thread about Robert Jordan's death. Those of you who made comments to the effect of "Good Riddance" are just plain horrible people. That's very insensitive. Have some respect, seriously. Those comments made me bitter towards the general slashdot populace for several weeks (and I'm not a bitter person). I guess some of that is still lingering.
Don't ruin the mood of those of us who are looking forward to the last book, or I'll send you spam email with a picture of a cat saying "IM IN UR HEAD HAXING UR PASSWORD"
Re:Have some respect, guys (Score:4, Funny)
If you have a problem, the come to me about it, but leave Robert alone.
after all he has done, and all he has provided, you all just attack him.
so just LEAVE ROBERT ALONE!
The Wheel of Time is Written... (Score:4, Funny)
read them all and liked them (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't think of a better author to finish this series.
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:5, Funny)
Details Are an Artistic Choice, My Friend (Score:3, Insightful)
Every author has a right to express situations to the point they see fit. If you want to pull a Hemingway and tell things how they are, go ahead. "The night was dark." But
Re:Details Are an Artistic Choice, My Friend (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Details Are an Artistic Choice, My Friend (Score:5, Insightful)
Master story-tellers know which elements of their story help their audience understand the point of the story. Hacks simply describe things. Details may be an artistic choice, but they definitely drive what I think of the artist. Sometimes, less is indeed more.
Re:Details Are an Artistic Choice, My Friend (Score:4, Insightful)
Its often said that in short stories, more than novels, its important to relate only details that matter (whether its to the mood or to the plot, or its best that if the detail serves the former purpose it also serves the latter) and ruthlessly eliminate the fluff.
I think that that is, perhaps somewhat paradoxically, just as true in works much longer than a typical novel as it is in works much shorter than one. While in the shorter forms you lack the space for both fat and meat, in the longer forms you are more likely to exhaust the readers tolerance for fat, but the effect is the same. A 2 million word megastory, I think, really needs to be nearly as lean, overall, as a 1,000 word piece of flash fiction; you've got some room to be more verbose in the first couple novel-length chunks of the bigger work, but beyond that you really need to buckle down if you want to avoid drowning the reader in a tide of minutiae that overwhelms the story itself.
Re:Details Are an Artistic Choice, My Friend (Score:5, Funny)
Book 1: Hansel and Gretel live happily with their mother and father. Their mother falls ill and dies. The family mourns her loss. The father starts courting another woman in the village, to the dismay of Hansel and Gretel. At the end of the book, she wins over the hearts and minds of the two children and marries her father. They live happily ever after.
Book 2: Oh, wait, they don't live happily after all. The stepmother turns out to be hateful and cruel. Ultimately, Hansel and Gretel resolve to run away from home. Gretel expresses fears about the wicked witch who is rumored to live in the Forest, but Hansel insists nothing could be worse than living at home with their stepmother. After much bickering, they depart.
Book 3: Hansel and Gretel cross the boundary between Village and Forest. Gretel reprises her misgivings about the dangers of the forest. Hansel reiterates his arguments in favor of running away. After much bickering, they agree to continue, using bread crumbs to mark their trail. They get lost. Gretel blames Hansel. Hansel stubbornly refuses to admit his mistake.
Book 4: Hansel and Gretel wander through the woods, lost and disoriented. Gretel continues to complain about the foolishness of running away from home. Hansel continues to insist it's the right thing to do. Gretel continues to berate him about the bread crumbs fiasco. Hansel persists in his mule-headed self-righteousness. They meet a Wise Owl, who warns them about the Wicked Witch of the Forest.
Book 5: Hansel and Gretel wander through the woods, lost and disoriented. Gretel continues to complain about the foolishness of running away from home. Hansel continues to insist it's the right thing to do. Gretel continues to berate him about the bread crumbs fiasco. Hansel persists in his mule-headed self-righteousness. They meet a Cunning Fox, who encourages them to visit the Wise Woman of the Forest.
Book 6: Hansel and Gretel wander through the woods, lost and disoriented. Gretel continues to complain about the foolishness of running away from home. Hansel continues to insist it's the right thing to do. Gretel continues to berate him about the bread crumbs fiasco. Hansel persists in his mule-headed self-righteousness. They meet a Cryptic Raven, who warns them about the Wicked Witch of the Forest.
Book 7: Hansel and Gretel wander through the woods, lost and disoriented. Gretel continues to complain about the foolishness of running away from home. Hansel continues to insist it's the right thing to do. Gretel continues to berate him about the bread crumbs fiasco. Hansel persists in his mule-headed self-righteousness. They meet a Devious Serpent, who encourages them to visit the Wise Woman of the Forest.
Re:Details Are an Artistic Choice, My Friend (Score:4, Funny)
You missed the three books where Hansel doesn't appear at all and Gretel camps outside the witch's house complaining about the weather for three days. One book, one day.
Re:Details Are an Artistic Choice, My Friend (Score:4, Funny)
Other than that, great job!
Sincerely,
A fan of the series
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:5, Insightful)
After book 3 Jordan expected the series to be complete at 6 books. after book 5, he thought he was closer to the end than the beginning. He was on a good pace to do that until he experienced a major death in his family while writing book 8. That book got away from him, and in order to complete his works and tie off all of the ends of his story, we needed books 9 and 10 to put things back on track.
Jordan rarely used "filler prose" as you claim. His descriptions were allways vivid and captivating, and all of his writing for his more than 20 main characters was exceptional.
Maybe you're looking at it wrong. This is not a simple story about a few characters on a quest, AKA J R R Tolkein style. this is 3rd generation hard fantasy. This is a collection of stories about seperate individuals following seperate paths each intertwined in common fates inside of an expansive world. This is really no different than the Dragon Lance series, other than in this case, each individual story has the power to move others. If this is more than you can follow, (not to say too complex, but simply the sheer volume of information and time required to invest in it) or if the collection is simply longer than your attention span, then I can reccomend many other great authors to you, and I will caution you to avoid Tad Williams, Neil Stepheson, George Martin and many other emerging fantasy gods of writing who are also on paths to publishing stories that cross 7-10 1000 page novels.
I mean no disrespect, but maybe it's just not your style.
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:5, Funny)
Female character sniffed. "Wooly-headed men," she thought.
Male character sighed. "If only other male character were here," he thought. "He understands women."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, one may be tempted to state that such phrases were repeated regularly in the series, but c'mon, all this means is that each book could have been 30-50 pages shorter... also, it's a long series, auth
Harry Potter films (Score:3, Insightful)
Rather choppily, I'm afraid. The last two movies were rushed Cliff Notes versions of the books, showing the high points without any sort of through line. As visuals to go
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:5, Insightful)
- "rarely used filler prose". If you read books 5-9, you will find that increasingly, that is all they were. Phrases were repeated a painfully large number of times. Characters expressed the same emotions and reactions to various situations over and over and over again.
- "his writing for more than 20 main charcters was exceptional" Well, there was little if any character growth for the majority of characters since book 4. If anything, it is shockingly repetitive in that the character's changed in no significant way for so long. And female characters in particular tended to the caricaturish in their unidimensionality.
No matter what excuse you care to use, it is obvious that a much firmer editorial hand was required. The number of people that simply stopped reading (based on comments here, on Amazon, and other forums) is very large. It just went on. Not only were questions not answered, and plot details not resolved, but new, seemingly irrelevant questions were raised, and new plot threads started. You may want to defend the work as "3rd generation hard fantasy" but it reads a lot more like Edward Gibbon than anything that is remotely interesting or compelling as a work of fiction.
Finally, I would not that Jordan's work has nothing redeeming from a literary point of view either--there are no compelling themes explored in interesting or insightful ways; no compelling use of metaphor or allegory; no deep (or even shallow) discovery of human nature and growth through conflict; nothing tragic about the conflicts; nothing at all. So without plot and character, there is simply nothing at all of interest.
And for reference, I have worked through Martin's books without losing interest. And Erikson's (who has more happen in a chapter than WoT had in whole books) even though he is up to 7000+ pages. Glen Cooks. Gene Wolfe. Etc. But that doesn't mean that I am uncritical or read uncritically. Jordan lost the plot and jumped the shark a long time ago, and those problems are compounded by dreadful style, awful characterization, and the total absence of compelling plot developments. (I am also pretty critical of Goodkind for similar reasons--the prose is simply awful, as is the characterization.)
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, I'm not so sure... I think his illness may have played into the picture in a couple different ways.
Note: this is COMPLETE SPECULATION
1. The Heinlein Effect - As Heinlein grew more and more ill, he began to pump out books at a crazy rate both as sort of a way to postpone his passing (notice EVERYBODY is alive in the last books), and
2. to provide for his wife. When contemplating ones mortality you want to take care of you loved ones - providing more books provides more financial stability for your loved ones.
One other comment you made stuck out- your comment that "it is obvious that a much firmer editorial hand was required."
In reading the announcement it appears that his wife was his primary editor. That might work in some cases, but I don't think this was one of them. I think it would be really hard for a person to be firmly critical of beloved spouse's artistic work - especially when they are ill as well.
I'm glad the series will reach a conclusion. I hope the final work redeems the wandering that occured from about book 5 on - perhaps it will really benefit from a new voice working on it... And maybe an abridged edition will eventually be put out that, like say Stranger in a Strange land, is better than the unabridged version.
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, RJ started out writing just one book, then during the process came up with more story and wanted a trilogy. If you read carefully, you can actually see how Book 3 really is a good ending to the saga, and it's evident how Book 4 does start on a new thread entirely. It's a very different series starting at Book 4 (similar to how Book 2 started).
But this is about when Tor came in and asked for more. So, he drew up some extended storyline of course for books 4-6 or so. Book 4 was stunning. just great!. Books 5-7 were *definitely* filler with mild forward-moving story. But then he got his act back together with Book 8 and THAT's when he did another 'reboot' of sorts and started putting story elements back together. The second half of Book 8, the whole of Book 9, and the interesting storytelling of Book 10 are all very tightly woven and they work very well.
Book 11 certainly was the house-cleaning book (heh, some "decisive action" taking place rather early made me smile) and sets the stage very smoothly for Book 12.
So yes, I agree it got slow and lazy in the middle. If we could have those books plus first half of Book 8 condensed and re-written to a 200 page novel, that'd be great
Anyway, I just wanted to toss that bit of insight up. I hope it helps 'cope' in some way with the whole thing. Once I found out about it, I felt better about it.
Seeya!
Just One (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, the last 2 books really picked up steam as he started moving toward the conclusion.
Books 6 through 9, however, were pretty tedious.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In the early
Donatello and Michaelangelo have the right idea (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:4, Informative)
I don't think Rand even killed any of the Forsaken in The Shadow Rising (although he captured Asmodean), and I don't think there where any blademasters in that book either. The closest thing I can think of is in book 2, The Great Hunt, when Rand defeats a blademaster in Falme and then defeats Ishamael, who is going by the name Ba'alzamon (and at that time he was thought to be The Dark One). But even Ishy hardly deserves to be called a "minor deity".
Anyway, why would you be surprised by Rand defeating major enemies? By the end of The Great Hunt (and even before) it is clear that he is a "foretold hero", and The Dragon Reborn. Heck, at the end of the first book, he kills a (minor) Forsaken and singlehandedly changes the outcome of a battle, so it is clear he is an extremely powerful character.
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps you meant that a lot of the fan fiction out there reminds you o
Re:Does that mean another 10 tedious volumes? (Score:5, Informative)
I feel that in Book 1 he hadn't really found the series' "voice" yet, that the story and prose are amateurish as you say. Books 2-5 are both much better written and much more interesting as stories. You get the sense sometimes while reading them that he wishes he could undo some of the things that happened in Book 1, or that he wishes he made the 'rules' slightly differently in Book 1. Books 2-3 carry on the same themes as Book 1 did, but in a richer way.
In Books 6-9 the tone changes. The stories start becoming very complex, very mature. Many people don't like 6-9 as the plot lines tend to deal more with politics and character motivations, rather then personal growth and exploring exotic lands (the primary motifs of 1-5). The villains in particular become less cartoon-y. Ishamael, the howling, ranting, "join the darkside!" villain of 1-3, is replaced by Moridin a quiet, sinister figure whom manipulates all the characters from the background, and who's motives are completely unknowable. Lanfear of the early books, who's only function is to tempt the protagonists with sex and glory or to fly into jealous rages, is swept aside in favor of Mogedian, a much more three-dimensional villain. Jordan also develops characters such as Elida, Verin and Asmodean, characters who are acting in the moral grey areas, neither completely good or evil.
In Books 10-11 the series' tone changed one last time. Maybe responding to fans complaints, Jordan begins wrapping up plot lines rather then creating new ones. The storys become more personal: a love story, a war of succession, and a personal vendetta of revenge. There are more battles, and the hero Rand loses much of his near-invincibility he possessed in the previous books. There is a sense of impending catastrophe, lacking in previous volumes.
The series isn't perfect, but judging the series by the first half of first book is misleading.