Fiber TV Install and Experience

SkinnyGuy writes "The same guy who brought you the Fiber to the Premises (FTTP), FiOS broadband installation process, now brings you a detailed look at the FiOS TV install. He's thrilled and apparently couldn't be happier to say goodbye forever to Cable TV. There's a lengthy story and interesting slideshow." From the article: "I chuckled a bit to myself. After all these years of the phone company having to lease out and let competitors use its phone lines and utility poles, Verizon was using a competitor's wiring (and the work they did to run it into my house). Sorry, Cablevision."

FIOS is GREAT!!!

I had FIOS installed a month ago. Right now only internet is available, I'm just waiting for Verizon to get permission from the state to start offering TV. I can't wait. Comcast thinks that they can do things with impunity, such as dropping channels, moving channels around, adding new service (and charging more), etc. The day after Verizon announces FIOS TV, I'm ordering it.

Competition is GREAT!!!

Honestly the problems with the cable provider have little to do with the technology and more to do with the cable provider having a de-facto monopoly on the distribution grid. Competition does wonderful things for forcing companies to provide what consumers want and to keep them in line, as consumers have the option of still getting similar services from someone else.

If too many people change to another provider as you have done then that provider might eventually take on the attitude that your old provider had. When that happens, assuming that there is another option then people will switch to that provider instead.

Re:Competition is GREAT!!!

Indeed. I saw a report that statistically, towns which have 2 competing cable companies have cable rates that average 9% lower than towns where there's a cable monopoly.

Re:Competition is GREAT!!!

I used to live in Cambridge, MA, right on the border with Somerville, MA. Our next door neighbors got their cable TV for $5 a month less than us from the same company, because they were in Somerville and had the option of moving to a competing company.

So yes, the cable TV companies really are that sleazy.

Re:FIOS is GREAT!!!

I can't wait for the phone companies to decide what VoIP networks are trying to take advantage of me and protect me with their own VoIP services. I mean I can't wait for them to try and "clean" up the internet so only fine upstanding companies in good standing can deliver their content to me...oh wait. I can't wait for them to decide what I can watch on TV...oh damn.

These companies are trying damned hard to be content providers because it changes alot of the rules, gives them ALOT more control, and basically lets them swing you around by your balls whenever they want and do it with the protection of the government. These companies are infrastructure, and need to be taught to stay the hell out of content. When they get in the business of content we get things like the Tiered internet, and commercials about how "Net Neutrality means the consumer pays more". I think them extending the fiber network to the home is definetly very cool, and definetly the way of the future, I just don't want them to be on either end of the fiber.

Re:FIOS is GREAT!!!

Net Neutrality means the consumer pays more

I have to say, I was honestly shocked when I first saw this ad campaign. Perhaps my naivete is showing, but that's the only time I can recall seeing something I know to be a complete, bald-faced lie in an ad. Normally it's spin, shading, vague terminology, inapt comparisons, rigged tests, the works. But my jaw literally dropped when I heard that claim.

And of course, the problem is best illustrated by my fiancee, who had no idea why I'd be so amazed at such a statement until I explained to her what they were actually talking about.

We seriously need a contravening campaign - of course, good luck getting the cable company to show it.

I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was.

Yeah I was pretty stunned by that, too. I guess I shouldn't have been, because it's probably going to work -- people don't expect commercials to flat-out lie to them, because of truth-in-advertising laws, so they'll probably believe that Net Neutrality is bad, because they saw it on TV.

Unless Google and some other deep-pocketed companies get together and start running some serious counter-advertising (and just running stuff on the Internet is not going to work; people who use the internet "recreationally" are almost all already sold on the idea of Net Neutrality, it's preaching to the choir), I think Congress is going to roll over and we're going to have a tiered Internet before people even know what happened to them.

I know a guy who works as an attorney for the telecom companies, actively working against Net Neutrality every day, and not even he would say something as cut-and-dried as "Net Neutrality means you'll pay more." Everything he says is the usual beating-around-the-bush lines that you'd expect, and that's the line I expected they'd maintain in the commercials. But they really decided to kick directly for the balls.

I suggest a counter-advertising campaign of "Telephone Companies Are Funding Al Qaeda" or perhaps "Comcast's Executives Worship Satan."

Re:FIOS is GREAT!!!

I'm so happy that Verizon has to ask for a franchise in every area in which they wants to supply video. Second - my cable provider is Cox. Not a bad deal at all and I loathe Verizon like there's no tomorrow. They've been responsible for all my major headaches from drowned DS1/HDSL carrier to botched installs, etc. Cox has its problems, don't get me wrong. But at least they're responsive. Here's what I suspect is going to happen. Verizon will roll in with nice cheap rates for voice/data/video and within a 6 to 12 month period those rates will rise sharply. Then once they know they've got you on a contract, you're up the creek without a paddle. It's typical incumbent behavior on the part of Verizon as they still play from the Ma Bell handbook. What they don't realize is that other players in the market don't play by the same book, hence why Verizon has lost 30-40% of its customers in the last couple of years. That's a pretty big hit and they're way over extended with the expense of stringing fiber. And they're cherry picking areas where they actually string fiber. That won't help them.

Re:FIOS is GREAT!!!

Really? Whom do I have to choose from? Let's look at my options:

1. Cable TV from Comcast
2. Over the Air antenna, except that there are trees and other natural obstacles in the way
3. Satellite TV, except that the trees still present a problem

So in short, for me, and others, there isn't really much in the way of options. Cable TV companies were granted monopolies when they were originally set up. And until recently, that monopoly was legally enforced. They have since, in principle, been required to open up to competition, but because it requires somebody the size of Verizon to compete with them at this stage of the game, for most consumers, there aren't other options.

-dave

how is the compression?

anyone know? On my Time Warner HD channels most shows are pretty good but a lot of times you can see pixels

Re:how is the compression?

For standard def TV, the compression is unnnoticeable... we switched from DirecTV, and it was a huge quality improvement.

On the other hand, some of the high-def channels do have very noticeable compression. I see it particularly when watching NOVA -- there are glaring blocky compression artifacts in complex, fast moving scenes (espcially scientific visualization graphics). However, this is not widespread- I haven't noticed it during major network prime-time viewing, nor with sporting events. So I'm guessing their throttling the bandwidth on the local PBS station (or get a very compressed feed from them).

-R

It doesn't have to be that way.

Because of the fact that the harder you compress the channels, the more you can push down the wire, the cable companies have every incentive to push the compression to the limit, and then push a bit more.

At least as I understand it, most Video-over-IP systems (which may or may not include FiOS, I don't really know that much about how it works) ought to be a little more resistant to that, because they don't transmit all the channels simultaneously as cable does.

There is an incentive to over-compress on cable TV systems because that's the only way to add more channels. If you want to go from 150 channels to 300 channels, and you're already using all the bandwidth, you need to compress each one at 2:1 in order to squeeze more in.

IP based systems don't work this way, because they only transmit down the wire the channel that you're watching. That's not to say that your entire connection is used to transmit that one channel (because that would prohibit having more than one tuner per household, or doing things like TiVO-style watch+record or PiP, which would put them at a disadvantage compared to cable), but it's not transmitting all the channels, all the time. When you want to change channels a command is sent upstream and you get a different feed hooked up at the head-end. So each channel can take a much larger percentage of the total bandwidth than on a cable system, at least theoretically. I think in practice, both IPTV companies and cable companies will compromise on some sort of de facto standard quality, which they think is just enough to not cause a person on a SDTV to get too pissed off. That's the way they work -- they'll deliver the bare minimum necessary to prevent people from switching, and not an ounce more.

Reading the FiOS article [wikipedia.org] on Wikipedia, it seems as though Verizon's system in addition to the upstream and downstream data channels, also has a separate and distinct channel (1550nm) for RF video overlaid on an optical carrier. So conceivably they could be using data circuits for switching, and then send the video down the RF channel. This seems somewhat unlikely, but who knows.

In theory anyway, a circuit-switched system like that offered by optical fiber could give more quality with an equal or greater number of channels than conventional cable. It also makes the addition of On Demand services or additional channels relatively simple, since an additional channel doesn't require an allocation of 'to the curb' bandwidth when it's not being watched by anyone. In practice though, I expect Fiber-based and coax-based TV services to sink to the same levels of mediocrity.

Re:It doesn't have to be that way.

Reading the FiOS article on Wikipedia, it seems as though Verizon's system in addition to the upstream and downstream data channels, also has a separate and distinct channel (1550nm) for RF video overlaid on an optical carrier. So conceivably they could be using data circuits for switching, and then send the video down the RF channel. This seems somewhat unlikely, but who knows.

My understanding is that it's not switched per say. Each fiber coming out of the CO is passively split into X number of fibers (32?) in the neighborhood that then go to the individual houses. Downstream is sent to everybody (encrypted - your terminal ignores packets not addressed to it) and upstream is shared with a TDMA scheme. With that setup I would assume that all the channels are being pushed down that fiber all the time -- regardless of what the end users are watching.

Quantum fibre TV

You turn on your tv to watch your favorite show only to discover that channel surfing collapsed the wave and moved it to a different day.

Damn fibre!

In reality, we have had fibre for years here in england (NTL) and its nice and stable (apart from when its not).

Am I the only one?

I love my cable company. In fact I am considering switching *away* from Verizon telephone service and getting Charter's phone service. I have digital cable through them (including about 10 HD channels and on demand), plus 6M/1M internet service. Everything works great, and when I call to make adjustments to my service they are always very helpful.

I feel sorry for this guy moving everything to Verizon. My experience with them has been less than stellar.

Re:Am I the only one?

But at least he can take comfort that their (Verizon's) math will be spot on.

Known Carcinogen?

My cable representative told me that FiOS causes cancer ... is this true?

Monopoly

Didn't he tell Cablevision in TFA that he wanted to get away from a monopolistic operation? Isn't Verizon just another monopolistic company that wants to lock you in?

FIOS

Every time a story mentions FIOS I have to post to say how desperately I want it. I [i]hate[/i] my cable company with a passion (Cablevision), and I can't install a dish. I'm in Brooklyn and am counting the days until FIOS is available.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how many days that will be.

FiOS much better than normal Verizion service

I just made the switch to FiOS... I'm pretty happy with it.

So far, it's been like dealing with a totally different company when dealing with anything related to FiOS. They show none of their old nickel-and-diming that they did on the normal phone service, and they have been very responsive.

Not only that, when they got to my house, we didn't have a fiber drop to the house (it was at the end of the block), so the tech called his boss, who sent a truck full of people to dig the trench and run the line the rest of the way to the house (across several neighbors' yards). When they were done they cleaned it all up so well you wouldn't even know they had been there.

The combined install time for Cable and Fiber was about 6 hours I think, but I wasn't there for the whole thing.

Moo

Fiber TVs?

Great! Now my TV dinners have fiber too.

Can you switch phone company later?

This is a little off-topic, but I guess it'd be helpful for those thinking about switching such as myself. There is a little disclaimer at the bottom of the FiOS ordering page, saying that once switched, we can't go back to DSL again because the wiring has been changed. Does this mean that we can't ever have DSL again even with another phone company, say AT&T? What about the phone service? Thanks.

I can't get FIOS

I can get FIOS neither at my office nor at home.

Verizon will only install FIOS in single-tenant buildings. I rent an apartment, and I rent space in an office suite. :(

WTF Verizon? Every time I try to come back there is always, ALWAYS a technical reason I can't come back.

And every time you send your reps to my place of business to sell me services, I inform your rep that you can't deliver what you're offering, they call to confirm (actually they call to prove me wrong and try to sell me the service) and find out that I've already inquired about the service and can't get it unless in a single-tenant building and/or (in the case of HIGH-speed DSL) am willing to settle for five or fewer non-consecutive IP addresses.

Government-guaranteed monopolies suck.

What's the point of FIOS TV...

If you use coax to hook all the TVs up? Screw that.

Verizon oughtta start pumping out multicast MPEG2 over IP, and give everyone a small IPTV reciever with fiber gigabit port on the back. So. Fucking. Lame.

Cablevision is Scared

I have been living in upstate Jersey for about a year now. I have seen Cablevision frantically try and upgrade their systems to compete with the invading FIOS. My speeds on Cablevision tests at about 13Mb/1.8Mb which is close to their advertized 15Mb/2Mb. So not bad.

But, they have throttled me 3 times and have told me next time they will either not release the throttle or terminate my account. They have told me the throttle is a function of the processor load on the managed switch over time (wtf?). So I have to be very careful now. I have been referred to a section in the contract I was forced to agree to that states something very vague along the lines of "Cablevision reserves the right to do anything we want".

Verizon save me!

I've been working on this stuff for two years...

Right as this article was posted I was starting to draft the fiber distribution plans for an area in the Journal Square C.O. in Hoboken, NJ.

Must Be Nice (*wistful sigh*)

So when can us schlubs on the San Francisco peninsula get fiber? The best we can get around here is 6000/768 DSL, or 8000/768 cable (but Comcast are jerks, and their TOS are laughably unrealistic, so they don't get my money).

Please dig up our street. I won't mind, honest. It won't even be that big a deal. Pacific Bell's... er, SBC's... Um, AT&T's central office is just a block and a half away.

Schwab

So what's the IP bandwidth like?

The article is all about receiving one-way broadcast video content. That's fine for the couch-potato crowd, but what do you get in Internet bandwidth?

Fiber or HDTV

To me, this guy seems to be mis-attributing his excitement to Fiber, when he's ready just excited to be getting HDTV for the first time.

That said, getting an HD feed is always great (especially the first time you see your new HDTV the way it was meant to be displayed).

Outside?

Why are the fibers etc mounted in a box outside of the home and then is the signal led into the home? This would be the same as hanging my NT-1 (for ISDN...) on the sidewalk.: not too wise.

Similar experiance

I had FiOS internet installed a couple of years ago and the TV service installed over the summer in my home. I'll focus on the TV like the original article. I don't have a HD set, and I already owned a TiVo (with the lifetime subscription) so I just got the regular tuner box, not the DVR. Installation was pretty straight forward. My ONT was a little too old (it didn't have the sort of DOCSIS-like support that the modern ones have that allow the tuner boxes to call back and set up streaming video sessions), so I had to have a separate box installed on the network. It wasn't a problem, but it's the second wall plug Verizon has needed for FiOS (the first being on the ONT itself). Install took a couple of hours all told and the tech was very well informed and friendly. He didn't mind that I was using a TiVo instead of spending the extra $12/month for their DVR, he even supplied the somewhat oddball digital optical cables needed to connect the box to my receiver.

The box itself isn't bad. It has a program guide and a reasonably extensive selection of PPV and Video on Demand. There is even a decent amount of free VoD options. That said, the quality of the VoD is not all that wonderful (even at SD resolution), and the ones that they're actually trying to sell are grossly overpriced. For stuff you can purchase, the cost is generally in the $10-$15/hour range, and for something that you can only view for a couple of hours and has somewhat crummy quality I can't see myself ever using it. Frankly, even the free VoD offerings aren't all that compelling and I've used the feature a grand total of twice--both times I was just playing around too. Example free VoD things are: One of the better sketches from the latest Robot Chicken, A discovery channel program about something or the other, some music videos, ads for videogames, extremely patronizing "help on making the most of your FiOS service" clips, and so on.

Some bad news: The box has USB and serial ports on the back, with an optional ethernet port. All impressive features that could set it apart from the normal cable boxes, all disabled. Yes, this means if you want to use a TiVo you have to set up an IR blaster. I believe the serial port was disabled entirely out of spite. If you don't use the router they gave you when you got the FiOS install it is very difficult to get the VoD working. The router they give you is a buggy piece of crap Linksys DI-604. I had to swap out the router because it was constantly generating packet storms over my FiOS link, and I still haven't managed to get VoD working again.

Overall, I prefer Verizon over the old Cox service we used to have. The base price is slightly cheaper, but since we didn't have to rent the box from Cox the price is a wash in the end (although Cox bumped their prices a few months ago around here, making FiOS cheaper again). One interesting thing with their plan is that they offer several ala cart options, typically for foreign language channels. While they're somewhat pricey ($7-$10/month for each channel), Cox didn't offer them at all. The HD selection is much better than Cox, not that I care yet since I still only have a SD TV.

From what I understand, Verizon is dragging their feet on coming out with a Cablecard for FiOS TV, which is a real shame because I hate cable boxes and I don't really care about their VoD options or guide. IR blasters suck.

Oh, about the guide: Unlike TiVo they apparently don't have a staff that double checks the guide info they get. It's not unusual to fire up a show on the TiVo and notice that the guide information that the TiVo recorded on the bottom of the screen is wrong or generic.

Cable Really is Fiber in Disquise.

What many people don't realize is that cable vision has an all fiber network. And watching that guys setup, fios is the uses the same method as CV. Cable Vision just does the fiber to coaxial at the pole. If was a fiber line that went directionally into the home and into my modem I would be impressed. Also I made add that I get 30mbps (3.2MB/s) down and 3mpbs(340KB/s) up with CV for 55.

Also verizon brings me nothing bad news. I had verizon dsl, I switched to another caires business class, and as I was canceling my verizon setup they said they where going to give better speeds for cheaper. Believing this, I canceled my business class order. Verizon lied. I was still the same speed. 45 dollars a month for 60KB/s down 10KB/s up.

After looking at the pictures of the install, I am disappointed at verizon. I though it was fiber to the home, not fiber to the outside of my house.

Also if any has a brain think of what happens in an apartment building.

Fios is bad.

So where is it?

I keep hearing about how great FIOS is, blah blah blah, yet according to dslreports it's nowhere to be found near me. I'm in the midwest (Northwestern Indiana now, Kalamazoo Michigan soon), and there's neither anything nearby now, or according to their maps in the future. What the crap? How long do I have to live with the crapulance that is Comcast?

pricing comparison

I live in northern New Jersey. I currently have the Cablevision triple play. I have the IO package (I forget if it's the standard or Silver) with HBO, one HD cable box, one standard cable box, phone service, and Internet all for $140/month. Everything works fine, the only reason I would consider switching would be considerably lower pricing.

What is the price for a comparable Verizon setup?

MythTV?

Any way to hook-up a MythTV box to one of these?

Verizon keeps calling me...

About once a month Verizon calls my home to promote FIOS. Apparently the no-call list doesn't apply if you do business with the vendor. (I get my land line from Verizon.) The salescreature usually waxes enthusiastic about the performance of FIOS, and I have to wait for him to wind down before I can get a question in edgewise. My question is always: Can I continue to use my current ISP? (I have DSL, but with an alternate carrier because Verizon charges an unreasonable price for a static IP.) The answer (so far) is always no, I have to use the one Verizon assigns me. I then ask what the price per month is for a static ip. The answer (so far) is always about 2.5 times what I'm paying now.

I'd like FIOS. A friend has it and loves it. But until they either open it up to other ISPs or provide a competitive price for static IPs, I'll have to stick to what I have. Too bad, as I'm also interested in FIOS TV as a replacement for our elderly DirecTV setup, but until they budge on the network issue, I won't be budging on the TV issue.

Ron

Verizon? Are you kidding?

Buried as SPAM for Verizon... oh wait wrong site...

Switch From Cablevision to Verizon?

As it stands now, nothing could ever motivate me to switch from Cablevision to Verizon for any service. While support is part of it, in that Cablevision's is generally good and Verizon appears to be staffed by idiot used car salesmen, the billing is the real clincher. Cablevision's bill for $49.99 monthly high-speed Internet? $49.99. No contract, no equipment fee, no installation fee, no surprises. I have their cable and VoIP services also, same thing. Contrast with Verizon's billing scheme for their services--count on 2-year contracts, equipment rental fees, and bills with what they criminally quote you as the monthly rate listed as the 'subtotal' above an ever-expanding list of inane little line items nickle-and-diming you up. Verizon doesn't want you as their customer so much as their bitch.

Just say no to this bull, it's the only way they'll ever learn.

My Experience With FIOS

I've had Verizon FIOS since June 2006 (I live in Long Island, NY.) For their triple play package (tv, internet, phone) it couldn't be any better, and is way better than Cablevision.

Installing FIOS
The installation went easy, the install techs are knowledgeable and rewire everything over the old stuff. The install takes about a day, and it's done cleanly.

Internet (first, cause thats what most people here are interested in)
I have 20mbps/5mpbs, and on a wired connection, you get your full advertised speed (I actually get 21/5.5 usually) For wireless, they give you a free Actiontec wireless router (the thing is a monster is size.) On a 802.11g wireless connection I get speeds around 11/4, which is still plenty fast. The connection is on 24/7, no outages or anything, ever, like all the crap I had dealt with from Cablevision. With FIOS, I can torrent all the time at full speed, no caps. The FIOS internet rocks.

TV
The FIOS tv is also great. There are like 1000 channels, which breaks down into like 250 real channels, like 200 HD channels, and a ton of movie and music channels that I didn't pay for. The standard def tv from fios looks great, much better than normal tv. The cable boxes work well, the guides make it easy to find shows over different channels or days. The only gripes I have with the tv are the somewhat random order of the channels (they BETTER fix this in the future) and that the channels aren't always in order, for example, the range from 30 to 60 only has like 12 channels, for some reason. Can anyone want to clear this up for me?

Phone
It's POTS, nothing more, nothing less. Works the same as before.

Choices

The guy was being wise about the CABLE company being a monopoly, while getting TV service from the phone monopoly. Ironic.

While that may be true, The bells have done no less - they also seek to maintain their monopoly over wired basic telephone.

What is really needed is a choice (for wired broadband Internet, at least) OTHER than EITHER the cable company *or* the phone company, and then people can choose to get their phone either from the monopoly or over IP, and their TV either from the monopoly, a Dish/DirectTV, or (hopefully someday) over a standards-compliant IP protocol.

Here is my summary of the pros/cons of the various options for high speed net (this is US-centric)

DSL - cheap, contract required, slow, mandatory phone service (from the monopoly telco, even if your DSL is from a 3rd party) even if you dont need/want it, you can choose between a single ILEC and a few CLECS - ILEC will usually drag their feet on any CLEC install, limited availability - max 3 miles from CO/DSLAM

CABLEMODEM - less cheap, no contract, slightly faster, usually mandatory cable TV service even if you dont need/want it, you cant choose between cable companies, cable not available in many areas

WIRELESS - expensive, usually slow, reliability issues, either contact or large up-front equipment investment required, availability varies

SATELLITE - expensive, slow, reliability?, high latency, contract or large up-front equipment investment required, almost universally available

cable lines in the house arent the cable companies

I find the following quote very interesting.... "I chuckled a bit to myself. After all these years of the phone company having to lease out and let competitors use its phone lines and utility poles, Verizon was using a competitor's wiring (and the work they did to run it into my house). Sorry, Cablevision." I gotta say, he's just wrong. The cable lines in the house are owned by the homeowner, not the cable company. Just like the electrical wires in the home aren't owned by the power company. Cable companies have been using the existing phone wires in the house when they moved users over to digital phone/VOIP. It's simply the easiest and most non-intrusive way to set it all up, but if the author thinks that the verizon is using the cable companies lines, he's dead wrong. That would likely be illegal anyway.

Re:Frist Post

What's the point of posting anonymously if you're going to mention your name in the subject line, Senator Frist?

Redundant

I like your signature. I like your mod rating too.