Dell Pre-Installing Firefox in UK

seizer writes "Blake Ross, creator of Firefox, has confirmed on his blog that Dell are now shipping Firefox on all desktop and laptop machines in the UK. While rumours had been floating around before this, and UK buyers had been reporting that 1.0.6 came pre-installed, this is the first official confirmation of Dell's decision. Is the US next?"

Default browser?

Definately good news, but if it's not the default browser the impact will likely be limited. Most people will use whatever's the default.

1.5 is out?

Shouldn't they ship it with the latest version at least... oh well still a step in the good direction.. but I doubt they remove IE on the system...

Re:1.5 is out?

It's quite funny. Your type seem to cry "anti-competitive practice!" and "monopoly!" when Microsoft chooses to include a product of great quality in their operating system suite, however, look at you now. "I doubt they remove IE on the system". Heh. It's alright when theoretical anti-competitive practice favours Firefox, but not Internet Explorer?

That's because Firefox isn't leveraging an existing monopoly in one area to gain ground for another (usually inferior) product. That's anti-competitive behavior. For example, if Firefox firmly controlled 95% of the browser market, and told OEMs "We won't allow you to install our product if you install another browser, and unless you bundle Thunderbird with it", that would be anti-competitive monopolistic behavior. If the OEM simply decides not to include what they consider to be inferior but competing products of their own accord, that's the free market in action.

If MS simply bundled apps with Windows and OEMs left the other products out, I would be quite happy with that. I'm glad they've finally decided to give anti-virus another go for a number of reasons. It's when they tell OEMs, "If you want Windows, you can't install X" that they really need to be backhanded.

Sounds like a step in the right direction...

I suppose this is a step in the right direction. When I got my laptop. The first thing I did was remove any trace of MSIE (short of uninstalling it) and installed Firefox. I'm sure this will help with XP security. I just wonder how much this is gonna piss of MS and how they are gonna strike back. We shall see.

Re:Sounds like a step in the right direction...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_Internet_E xplorer [wikipedia.org]

Same way with Netscape back in the day..

..back in the day, computers came with Netscape and MSIE installed. You'd see infomercials saying, "This computer comes with the two leading internet browsers. Netscape and Internet Explorer, so that you can choose which you'd like to use". It will just start bringing more competition to the table for MSIE. I feel bad because I remember in those days recommending that people uninstall Netscape and use IE.

Pictures??

Anyone seen the version? is it with a custom dell skin? just currious.

And somewhere

Inside the corporate offices of Microsoft, an angel dies.

Re:And somewhere

Inside the corporate offices of Microsoft, an angel dies.


You used "Microsoft" and "angel" in the same sentence without the "of Darkness" phrase. You should know better.

And somewhere else

Inside the corporate offices of Microsoft, a chair is thrown.

News from the future...

Wait and see if a hurricaine hits Britain next year. Billy Boy will say that it was God punishing the sinful, wicked infidels.

Great First Step

If Dell is going to buck Microsoft and install Firefox, perhaps the day is coming when they will openly and consistently offer Linux on their desktop machines as an alternative to Windows. But we will see. Something tells me MS isn't going to take this lying down.

Re:Yes

A good alternative might be for Dell or (more likely) a third party (for profit or otherwise) to release 'brand specific' Linux distro installation ISOs. Rather than running a standard install script, you download the ISO for your particular model of new big-brand machine and the installer simply writes a disk image onto the hard drive which already has all the appropriate drivers and config settings for the standard hardware. The only question is whether it's worth the effort when most installers are pretty good at figuring it out for themselves now anyway.

Re:Great First Step

They can't "buck" Microsoft by installing Firefox as IE is still installed. It's just giving users an alternative version to use.

This is a carefully weighted decision based on its ease of support for Dell's staff. Hence we're more likely to see Firefox as a default install, along with iTunes, Realplayer, Winzip and goodness knows what else before we'll ever see Linux offered on the desktop. In any case 99% of prospective Dell buyers don't want Linux on it anyway, and would probably moan that it wasn't Windows if they did choose it...

Dell: I would buy a pre-installed Linux laptop

perhaps the day is coming when they will openly and consistently offer Linux on their desktop machines

Well, in case Dell is listening, I am one customer for a Dell laptop with Linux pre-installed (the model that has nVidia graphics, as ATI is totally hopeless with OpenGL).

I always install my own Linux systems on desktops, but laptops are somewhat different to desktops in that they often have custom features that aren't covered well (or at all) by standard Linux distros.

A Dell Linux-based laptop with all its hardware features supported would be a very welcome product.

Re:Great First Step

Your entire post needs a reality check.

First of all, Dell already bundles RealPlayer, WordPerfect and other software that competes with Microsoft, so tossing Firefox into the mess isn't that big of a step.

Second, while Dell ships RedHat Linux on it's high-end desktops, most of you whiners don't want to pay for a RedHat subscription anyway. Fortunately Dell will sell most of its desktops bare (without Windows), so you are free to install Ugentou or whatever the linux flavor of the month is.

Finally, the key victory in the antitrust settlement was that MS must take this lying down. If there was even a wift of them threating an OEM about bundled "middleware", they would be opening themselves to an new round of lawsuits.

Re:Great First Step

Fortunately Dell will sell most of its desktops bare (without Windows), so you are free to install Ugentou or whatever the linux flavor of the month is.

I call bullshit. Not on you but on Dell, who do offer/sell many of their computers bare however at a price point of almost the same as with Windows. Often considerably more.

It is highly likely that Dell is still paying for the Windows licence for each and every computer they sell, even if they don't pre-install it for you.

Lying down, all right.

Microsoft's income based on IE is negligible if not negative. It costs them absolutely nothing for Dell to preinstall Firefox; the only cost is altering the Windows Update site to allow for both browsers--which they're doing anyway.

Eventually, MS might reach a deal with the Mozilla Foundation to bundle Firefox with Windows, saving them the expense of maintaining IE. Then everyone wins--the users get a better browser and a more secure OS; Microsoft's reputation improves all around; Firefox spreads further; and website designers get redesign their sites to support standards and nix ActiveX controls.

Where's the problem?

1.06? Isn't 1.5 out now?

A wee bit behind the times no?

Version what?

Doesn't 1.0.6 have known problems? Is Dell shipping security risks now?

Yes but...

-Is it installed like the rest of their nagware? (e.g. buried in the menus)

-Is it the default browser?

-Will it remain the default browser?

-Is there an icon on the desktop? (still will probably not switch the trained to click the "e" people.)

In one way it's very good news.

I don't think it changes much though once IE7 is available. The IE7 hype for a feature set that Mozilla browsers already have will be deafening.

Re:Yes but...

My sister got one of these, to my surprise, the fox was there.

There is an icon on the desktop, along with Internet Explorer's and about 30 others. I believe Internet Explorer came as default, but I didn't observe the first seconds directly.

It seems a standard install, no obvious branding or skinning - the start page has been set to Dell's EULA.

Neither browser masks the other that I can tell, of course each has it's standard 'I'm not the default' message.

... and today

... is the day when software bundles is a Good Thing!

(err, right?)

This is very bad news for Microsoft

If Dell does this all over the world it will have a large impact on IE browser numbers. This is the single largest reason IE/Windows has the largest install base. Think how good Firefox needed to be to get people to take the time and download, install and use over IE. Now it is there by default? Man that will be powerful.

Perhaps prompt the user at first login?

Perhaps the new PC could prmopt the user at first login to choose clients for the various protocols. Thunderbird could be available as an alternative to Outlook Express, and some alternatives to the commercial chat programs could also be available. I like that idea.

This is nuts..

I, for one, am outraged. Could you imagine if Microsoft did the same thing and had Internet Explorer installed on every new computer?

Oh wait... [microsoft.com]

One down....

Now if we could just get them to preinstall OpenOffice.org, offer Linux as a real alternative OS, and (god forbid) even consider offering AMD based systems then we would really be making progress...

Why 1.0.6?

For those wondering why this particular version, it is the latest to support FULL msi options http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=1380 33 [mozillazine.org] as listed on the official mozillazine forums.

However if the people at DELL had of just gone one more click to the guys full site, they would see the latest MSIs built ready for pre-install or corp rollout needs http://www.frontmotion.com/Firefox/ [frontmotion.com].

Big thanks to "DraconPern" for doing this, OEMer i been working at has been rolling this onto default install for around 14 months now, not had one gripe about bloatware, and quite a few thankyous from people for saveing them the effort :)

doesn't work with McAfee

I set up a bunch of new Dell laptops and set Firefox to be the default browser.

Much to my chagrin, McAfee (which is pre-installed) has a self-update is almost entirely ActiveX/javascript dependent. It loads about 10 pages in succession, which is rather strange. Even though it "fell down went boom" about 80% of the time in IE because McAfee's servers were continuously overloaded or down (thus resulting IE error pages which you can't continue from- you have to hit 'update' again and wait another 5-10 minutes.)

The incompetence in the decision to use complex ActiveX/javascript bouncing off 10 different pages and a couple webservers...just to check for effing definition updates...is astounding. Do they really not have anyone capable of writing a decent simple Windows 2k/XP program?

Seen it on a dell 2weeks ago

When I first saw this article a few days ago, I remembered that a clients dell that I ordered for them turned up with firefox on it already. It was out of date but still very surprising. Shame there is sooo much other bloatware that takes ages to remove.

already do this

As a small system builder, I've been doing this since Firefox 1.0.1

When I sell a machine, I install the latest version of Windows, firefox, WinAMP, Norton AV, and OO.o (unless they "upgrade" to MS Office) and set firefox & WinAMP as defaults. I also offer a "bonus" CD with competing products such as Opera, RealPlayer, MusicMatch, and iTunes, and clear, conside directions on how a user would uninstall the software on the computer and replace it with what's on the CD. I also make sure the latest patches, updates, drivers, and virus definitions are installed.

Of course, I also sell linux boxes priced at the cost of Windows and Norton less than the Windows boxes. For those I just deliver the machine completely clean.

FirefoxInternet Explorer

Looks like people are beginning to realize the benifits of open source technology. For a while people were very cautious about it. FInally the end of Internet Explorer seems a possibility!

Is it a response to spyware?

I imagine that Dell's support costs for helping people remove spyware are ASTRONOMICAL. And, truly, using Firefox as your browser goes a LONG way towards preventing spyware from being installed. I mean, a lot (most?) spyware comes in the form of ActiveX controls.

I wonder if McAfee and Norton Internet Security are going to get the axe next? Both of those programs tend to be a major hassle, too. I've always been amazed that Dell would install those programs on every machine, when doing so almost GUARANTEES a support call. Or ten.

Eleven years ago

OS/2 Warp was pre-installed on the machines from large retailers (typically Escom or Vobis). This was almost one year before Windows 95 was released. We all know how that story ended.

OK, the configuration of OS/2 on those machines (often 486DX2 with 4MB of RAM) was particularly crappy, sharing a FAT partition with DOS and Windows 3.1, but all I'm saying is that pre-installation doesn't imply mass adoption yet.

Business users ?

Does this include business machines ?

If so, I don't think it'll make much difference to the number of firefox users, as most large firms I know, who buy from Dell, have IE only web sites and intranets. It will however boost the statistics for Firefox, viz. number of installations.

Just more BloatWare

First Off, I love FireFox and use it every day, it's default on every computer I use except this one (damn you work!).

Anyway, to play Devils Advocate, does everyone see that this should be considered more bloatware from Dell? I mean, the HardOCP review of Dells gaming rig (last week on /.) proves what everyone says, Dell puts too much crap on their boxes. Well, now thier putting another browser there, albeit a better one. It's technically another thing we (consumers) don't need.

I am probably going to get flamed for this post, but it has to be said. They put lots of programs that aren't needed on their computers and people bitch. Well, now thier putting another browser on there (again, I know its a better one) and everyone is happy.
I know it's a step in the right direction in general, but am I the only one who sees the majority of the previous posts as somewhat hypocritical?

Hey, tell 'em to call me when I can buy bare metal

It'd make my eyes really twinkle if I didn't have to pony up an extra c-note just to remove the preinstalled OS.

If I want Windows (which I might), I'll purchase a Genuine Windows CD; uh, that is, when they get the x_64 version working. It's in Microsoft Beta - that is, what the rest of us would call Alpha. SuSE 10.0 did a better job of recognizing my hardware right "out of the box", while the XP x_64 not only missed two cards, but refused to install the vendor-supplied (32-bit) drivers for the cards.

So, just for my sins, I now have an AMD x_64 machine running a 64-bit aware OS with application code compiled to take advantage of x_64 architecture. This begs the question - why does <insert hardware vendor name> trundle a 32-bit OS with 64-bit hardware?

dangerous road.

Dell is playing with fire. Don't get me wrong I really like that they are installing Firefox, and hope it makes it to the US soon. But is it wise to slap the hand that feeds you? MS's support is one of the reasons Dell was able to undercut HP and become number one. Dell also got big support from Intel for rejecting AMD. Out of the two players to piss off I would think piss Intel would be a better move since everyone is going to HP/Sun to get some 64 bit opterons.

On the flip side HP has been warming up to MS with things like supporting HDDVD and MS/Disney tech over the HP/Java tech.

A little old?

1.5 is out now and 1.0.7 was out before that.

I know 1.5 crashes on me while 1.0.7 does not but its more standards compliant and more secure. They could use a more recent version.

About time!

I'd like to think that this would be a wake-up call to the other big PC companies... but then again, I'm an idealist.

Firefox's download stats

Amusingly, this move may *hurt* the download statistics of Firefox, as more people get it for "free". Not to imply that less people use it though.
On the other hand, the browser usage stats could change significantly because of this policy.

my dad just bought a new dell, FF on desktop

Yep. Much to my surprise, my dad's new Inspiron 1300 came with Firefox on the desktop

Default home page was google uk

bookmarks were dell and a coupla other weird OEM ones.

My new dell pc

I have just recieved my new pc from dell, and yes, firefox is pre-installed as the default browser, and is nice and prominent as a shortcut on the desktop and right at the top of the start bar under Internet. And no, it doesnt have a special dell skin, but the home page is to Dell's EULA. IE is also still installed of course and still has its icon on the desktop which will make people that are used to clicking on the 'e' continue their bad habit (yes i am a firefox supporter).

I just hopes this gives the browsers support a boost.

Firefox the only browser

Someone in Blake Ross's blog said that it was the only web browser icon on the desktop. So the probability that people are actually going to use it is high.

Subject Line Roulette

Does anyone else find it ironic that this story appears right after "Challenges to Microsoft for 2006"?

1.0.6 isn't such a bad thing...

Given that Firefox has this nifty (and actually functioning) feature which can check for updates on it's own, I think people will have plenty of opportunity to upgrade gracefully.

I'd still use FF 1.0.6 (and did, until 1.0.7 came out) over IE any day of the week. In fact the only real bug I've found in 1.5 has to do with a self-signed cert on a Radware accelerator (SSL site), which I cannot explain. It happens at random times too so I can't just duplicate it either. Very odd.

diagnostic tools

IIRC, their diagnostic cd uses active x to figure out what drivers and stuff you are missing. i believe their website also does something like that. does this mean they are going to change their tools too?

This is good for Microsoft and Firefox

Firefox is more widely used, IE is forced to get better.

Who cares, Firefox has lost the plot.

Ah Firefox... how promising you once were.

You started off well and genuinely seemed to be designed to help me control what I saw on that there intermaweb. You blocked popups and gave me control of what I viewed (courtesy of Ad Block etc.) You really did seem to want to let me "take back the web".

But now you keep insisting that "additional plugins are required to view this page". Sorry but I disagree. I don't REQUIRE any plugins. Sorry but I don't want Flash. I'm just not interested in viewing those Flash adverts. I'd rather those CPU cycles went to Seti@home instead. Hell I'd rather they went to Sony's rootkit than to some fucking retarded marketroid's idea of what a web advert whould look like.

If Firefox is helping me "take back the web" then why does it insist I REQUIRE Flash to be installed ? Sorry I just don't want it. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

So whilst Firefox is still marginally better than IE (at least there's no Craptive-X in there) it's now a complete pain in the arse to use on any mainstream sites (i.e. anything with Flashvertising due to the following sequence of events:

"Additional plugins are..." clicks no thanks, clicks a link in the page,
"Additional plugins are..." clicks no thanks, clicks a link in the page,
"Additional plugins are..." clicks no thanks, clicks a link in the page

Gives up in disgust and goes back to the pub :)

Yet it started off with so much promise... Ho hum.

P.S. And no, setting "plugin.default_plugin_disabled" to false in about:config doesn't switch this off anymore so there.

uh, big deal?

Uh.. They did this with Netscape for about a zillion years, so what's the big deal?

Re:Heh

And if the users don't want it (I'm not sure why) they could uninstall it unlike IE
--
Get a free Playstation 3 here! [freepay.com]

Re:Not news

Dell has done their experiments before...outside of the US and most often in their server related products. Wake me up when they install Firefox on their consumer desktops, in the U.S.

Yeah, when it's on an AMD 64 system. Until I'll keep hitting the Snooze on Dell related articles.

Re:Not news

Did it occur to you that this really is news to people in the UK, who also read Slashdot or follow FireFox developments?

The UK is the second greatest market for both Slashdot and Dell, so reporting this only makes sense.

Re:The Next Step...

This is just not true.
You can order a Dell without an OS [dell.com]. At least in the US.

That's great, but...

They've got the same system with XP media center for $20 less.. Tell me again how there's no "Microsoft tax". http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?CS=19&kc=19&oc=DE510SAP [dell.com]

Re:A quick rant about Firefox

Ok, so just don't use it and cool down.

Re:Nonsense.

You misunderstood, firefox is installed in addition to the inferior browser. IE is still shipping as it is "part of windows and cannot be removed" :-)

Re:A quick rant about Firefox

give me easy adblock for opera linux, and I'm game.

Re:More Dell Installed crap I will have to remove

hahaha... lol! sooo agree with that! In the office we bought 2 dell for the office ladies (clerical work like data entry) with 256mb of ram. and good all the junk it had on it. it needs like 1gig of virutal memory. sight. took me a good hour to uninstall the junk. now i have to fight with the office ladies to tell them its not virus that slow the computer down and that i have to unistall all those stuff that they use once every aeon!

Re:Dell giving free memory upgrades too?

Is Dell going to be giving free memory upgrades and tech support ...

They're preinstalling Firefox, not OpenOffice.

Re:A quick rant about Firefox

What is so good about Firefox?

Extensions.

I tried Opera 8.5 for about a week, and while versus Firefox without extensions there would be no contest, there were just too many things I could not acheive in Opera, that Firefox extensions provide. Opera was fast and stable though.

It's a unfortunate that extensions are also a bit of a weak point for Firefox. It would be nice if the APIs for extensions were made robust enough that it was harder for extensions to break the browser, and I still haven't had a problem free browser upgrade without doing a clean reinstall.

Re:A quick rant about Firefox

Ok mister, lets get a few things straight. Just because

• most of firefox features were in Opera first and
• Opera has features that will take years to be implemented in firefox and
• Opera's mail client was gmail like before gmail even existed and
• Opera is faster and has a smaller memory footprint than firefox and
• Opera is beautifully designed and integrated instead of being a patchwork frankenbrowser and
• Opera's download is smaller

slashdoters will still not love it. Why? Because Opera is not open source. Therefore, although most people won't ever modify Firefox's code, it will forever remain everyone's sweetheart.

Firefox is not just a browser, it is a symbol of rebelion against the system. We should rename it the Ché-wser and make t shirts! :-P

Cheers,
Adolfo
Opera user since forever.

Um...

We can very easily see that you're a zealot. You haven't said a single thing about why Opera is better than Firefox (and I personally don't believe that's true, both have things going for them).

Come on Opera is the best.

Why? You certainly haven't told us. Your saying so won't convince anyone.

It's just regional variation

Dell is a company, and as such, is a SINGULAR NOUN. Usage rules dictate that singular nouns are incompatible with plural verbs. Would you say "My mom are going to the store?" Of course not. Why, then, would you say "Dell are now shipping" ?

Learn some fucking English, people.

Learn to accept different regional usages. Where I come from, saying 'Dell are' is standard usage [learnenglish.org.uk]: 'Dell' is a collective noun and can be treated as a plural.

Not necessarily

I'm sure someone will correct me if this is not the case, but I believe in the Queen's English (as opposed to American English), organizations are often represented in the plural because they are a group of people. You will read a US headline that says "Manchester United is likely to sell to Glazer", but in the UK, it can be "Manchester United are likely to sell to Glazer". Check out this site [learnenglish.org.uk]. Given the English source for the story, this makes sense.

Re:A quick rant about Firefox

You don't even have to pay to use it without adverts anymore!

This last statement answers the question why I found Firefox better than Opera. The primary reason I wanted to get away from IE was to get away from "in your face" advertising. And it appears [opera.com] you still have to purchase Opera to use it without adverts.

I'll accept that Opera is smaller and faster. But I don't accept that "best browser" is soley defined by being "smaller" and "faster" especially when they're given in non-meaningful terms.

Re:Grammar Alert: Singular Noun vs Plural Verb Usa

Sir,

I am not normally moved to put pen to paper these days, but I feel I ought to make an exception for your folly. I shall keep it simple, for it is clear that you are of a reactionary bent and I fear that a lengthy response might be a little too much for your poor little brain, triggering what I believe is termed a "buffer overflow".

I like to count myself amongst those of a gramatically Naziist persuasion, but I am always mindful of one golden rule - the central tenet of pointing out the mistakes of others, as it were - make damn well sure you are right before jumping into the fire. Failure to do so will result inevitably in a demonstration of your limited intellect to all and sundry, as is the case here.

I can only note in closing that it is a pity that you lack even the self-belief to attach a name to your comments - the anonymous grammar Nazi is perhaps held lower in the collective self-esteem than are the goatse and BSD trolls.

Yours faithfully

iqu :|

Re:Obvious Reason Why Dell Is Doing This...

It makes sense. I've done Dell support in the past, and I know that many times things like viruses, corrupt OS and/or IE files and registry errors will prevent IE from opening. This makes it ugly trying to obtain fixes, patches, and other solutions when troubleshooting OS, driver or other problems. Of course, with most of Dell's English speaking tech support in India now, troubleshooting will be (for the most part) limited to endless DFFR's. Had they done this before they shipped the support overseas, it may have made some difference in support costs.

Re:This is BAD news

If you disregard the gaping security hole that is ActiveX, you might be correct. Certainly, as more people use it, it will become a more valuable target for black hats, but that doesn't mean it will be vulnerable.

We'll know the answer in a couple of years once Firefox really moves into the mainstream.

Re:Not news

I can't believe a comment about firefox & dell being marked as "troll" in a thread about dell & firefox. I guess somebody didn't get what they want for Christmas.