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California Considering Recycling Fees on PCs
Posted by
michael
on Tue Feb 26, 2002 08:51 AM
from the nickel-deposit dept.
from the nickel-deposit dept.
Jeff writes: "It looks like two US senators are introducing bills that would impose recycling fees on new computer systems sold. These bills look to cover every high-tech product a consumer might buy, including computer and video monitors, desktop and notebook PCs, and handheld gadgets."
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California Considering Recycling Fees on PCs
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Recycling Fees (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Recycling Fees (Score:5, Insightful)
Hm. I have a couple points about this statement I would like to make:
1. I'm not against recycling. It's a good thing in my opnion, but I do not want some big-brother government entity charging me a tax on everything I buy so I can recycle it.
2. I think someone has said it before, but I'll go ahead and say it again. There's a thing called conservation of matter. Sure, stuff gets shifted around alot, but the "stuff" remains the same amount. Filling up a landfill? How about dumping garbage into that stip-mine, quarry, etc...? Yes. It would fill it up. But it was filled with something to begin with.
All we're doing is shifting matter aound this earth and/or recombining it and dropping it off elsewhere. True, sometimes we recombine the stuff here into things that are toxic to us and everything else that lives here. But it's all from the same stuff.
Re:Recycling Fees (Score:5, Insightful)
This is where atoms and molecules -- which existed beforehand -- are combined under circumstances where they change their molecular properties. After having done this, the molecules have different properties: these properties are often advantageous to some process. However, in a different context (e.g., as waste) these properties may in fact be harmful.
And, moreso, the concentrations of material may provide hazards because it overwhelms the environment's ability to tolerate normal levels -- the material being concentrated because someone went to great effort to extract the material from deep in the earth where it was previously harmless, dilluted, and/or in a chemically more neutral state.
I don't know what kind of science you were smoking, but this stuff should be junior high level material.
Re:Why oh why can't they do things right. (Score:4, Insightful)
You make a valid criticism, but do you have a better solution?
What does it take to break down an old PC into its constituent parts (iron, aluminum, plastic, copper, etc..) so that it can be re-used? Is it possible? Is it practical? What about smelting?
I guess my concern would be that there may not be a good target for the money, so they'd collect it, but never setup a nationwide recycling system.. so where would the money go? I shudder to think. I'd say "go for it" if they have a very solid plan to setup (the very costly) infrastructure to ACTUALLY recycle discarded consumer electronic devices.
Vortran out
Re:Why oh why can't they do things right. (Score:5, Informative)
In Europe, the law around electronic equipment works as follows. The company that produces the equipment is responsible for its care, use, and disposal before the sale and AFTER the consumer is done with it. While the consumer owns it, its their responsiblity. But when the consumer is done with it, it goes back to the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM). The OEM then disassembles the equipment, and recycles what it can. If the plastic can be reground and reprocessed, that is done. Glass (where possible) is melted down, all metal components are melted down as well (or reused for the same model or other model electronic equipment. Screws, bolts and brackets for example). Difficult items to recycle include circuit boards (epoxy plastic, metal (some of it toxic), silicon and semiconductors), cathode ray tubes, and sometimes the plastic.
What the European OEMs try to do is reuse what they can and incenerate the rest. If the plastic cannot be reused (off color, decomposed), they'll just burn it up and recycle the energy gained from combustion. However, materials that don't burn (semiconductors, silicon, etc.) are left as slag in the incenerator, and also are concentrated in toxic elements which can leach into ground water. How to deal with this waste is currently a big sticking point for the recyling of electronics waste. There are some refining techniques that one can use to separate out the elements in this inorganic "slag", but, they're quite expensive, and, there currently is no desire/regulations in place to reuse this slag material. Electronic circuit board OEMs and chip OEMs don't want to use material from this slag for fear of contamination may ruin finely tuned electronic properties, which are often affected by minute impurities. Part of the reuse taxes that EU citizens pay goes towards research to solve this issue, and set up an infrastructure to get the whole recyling system to work.
There are systems in place to get this to work, so you just have to give them time to catch up and get fully implimented. It took 10+ years to get PET and HDPE (#1 and #2 plastic) to the level where it was widely implimented and cost effective. Electronics recycling has probably only been going on for 3 years now, so give it time.
voodoo economics (Score:3, Insightful)
Donations and Recycling Programs (Score:5, Informative)
You can go there to see what options you have on recycling computer parts in your area.
Safety deposit (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:lucky for me.. (Score:5, Informative)
What total crap. (Score:4, Funny)
The job of Freddy J. Bumfuck High School down the street is to teach things like reading, writing, math, history, biology, physics, chemistry, etc, not to make dozens of computers, all different mind you, function. It's a high school for God's sake, not ITT Tech. 99% of schools have enough trouble with the basics to bother teaching kids how to be computer repair people. The idea that you can throw your useless piles of 10+ year-old hardware their way and have them do something with it is idealistic to the point of silliness.
I'm amazed at the naivete of this. You're computer people dammit, doesn't "Garbage In Garbage Out" mean anything to you?
We already got these taxes in Europe (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know what the problem is here. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's always gone within 24 hours. I can only assume that some techno-geek takes them and uses them for spare parts.
I did the same thing to my comic book collection.
Tough Economics (Score:5, Funny)
We need to tell people their 800 Mhz is a worthless piece of junk and that they SHOULD upgrade to one that will make their word processor
This tax will make everyone into a tree hugger, finally making people realize that their instant pornography boxes are ruining the world. We need MORE garbage, more pollution, more waste... if not then terrorism has won.
No wait... Tax them all.
Responsible thing to do. (Score:4, Insightful)
Adding, $5, $10, or even $20 to a system is not going to kill us. However, I would want it to be used directly for the recycling of the machines and everyone (business and individual) alike must pay at point of purchase. The fact that a company buys 1000+ boxes, is no reason for a discount on recycling. By putting it at point of purchase, we can still donate boxes, etc. without having to worry about the charity paying the fee.
In addition, we should be able to put the stuff at the curb with the other recyclables. Who would spend $100 shipping back a PIII three years from now? It would end up hidden in the dumpster.
Finally, my favorite statement was:
"the high-tech industry hasn't done nearly enough and foists costs onto consumers that should be picked up by the manufacturers themselves" There are no zero return business costs anymore. NONE, ZERO, zilch,
Donate! (Score:3, Interesting)
Tapping the revenue stream... (Score:3, Insightful)
With widespread mandated fee-based recycling for computing components, I fully expect to see the leeches emerge. But at least some good should come of it.
They're not U.S. Senators (Score:3, Informative)
That's OK; most Californians I know can't name the two U.S. Senators they elected (Barbara Boxer [senate.gov] and Dianne Feinstein [senate.gov])
But what will either of these bills do.... (Score:3, Insightful)
One of these bills doesn't seem to do anything about the problem; it just wants to set up yet another tax. Does that mean, okay we've collected the tax, now you can throw your old computer in the dumpster?
I would much rather see something closer to the second bill: an active recycling program that encourages computer makers to get older computers to schools and others non-profits so as little as possible ends up on the dump. I would rather see a reward system set up rather than a punitive one, however. Any costs penalizing these companies will simply be passed on to us.
In Europe... (Score:3, Interesting)
If only... (Score:4, Insightful)
No one had any clue.
I spent a several afternoons trying to find an environmentally-friendly way to get rid of the damn burnt out monitor, but without any luck. Eventually I was forced to just put it out on the curb for the garbage men to pick up.
So I was determined to recycle my old monitor, but still failed in the state of CA. You think people who don't care in the first place will do anything other than just chuck the thing in the trash? If there's a purchase-recycling fee, then they sure as hell need a very robust system to actually do the recycling. And the most important part of such a system would be advertising to let people know the service is available and how to use it. Because otherwise there will be people like me who have the best intentions, but don't know where to take the hardware.