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It's Just the 'internet' Now?

Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:30 PM
from the check-with-saint-martin dept.
This morning Wired News announced that 'web', 'net', and 'internet' will no longer be capitalized in their stories. Is this the next logical step after ditching 'e-mail' in favor of 'email' , or should the global computer network still be treated with a proper name? For more discussion, see Wikipedia, The Chicago Manual, and an article profiling Joseph Turow's de-capitalization efforts.
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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 16 2004, @12:31PM (#9982299)

    ... we should decapitalize "Google".
    • by abb3w (696381) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:33PM (#9982330) Journal
      No, that only happens if the SEC get antsy enough about the Playboy interview during the IPO quiet period.

    • by 88NoSoup4U88 (721233) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:52PM (#9982615) Homepage
      How about decapitalizing 'God' ?

      *gets struck by lightning*

      • Re:Next move... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by trentfoley (226635) on Monday August 16 2004, @02:52PM (#9984023) Homepage Journal
        An interesting point that I have considered many times.

        Those that want to keep "God" in the U.S. pledge, etc., claim that "God" is a generic term for a spiritual, not religious concept; and, therefore, does not endorse any specific religion. Bill O'Reilly holds this belief, as do many conservatives.

        Those that want to remove "God" from the U.S. pledge, etc., claim that "God" is the proper name for the Judeo-Christian supreme being and represents an endorsement by the U.S. government of a specific religion. Which is, of course, unconstitutional.

        My suggestion to mend this dilema has always been to uncapitalize "God" thereby removing the association with the Judeo-Christian supreme being. Hell, I'd even be for making it plural... One nation, under gods, indivisible...

        My unrealistic suggestion is to change "God" to "the laws of physics".

    • It worked for "digital". But then again, they couldn't afford the capital letter.

    • by 0x0d0a (568518) on Monday August 16 2004, @01:23PM (#9983039) Journal
      Actually, if you're just trying to be Wired (which means being relentlessly hip to try to avoid losing their self-assumed position as authority on Internet culture), there's a fair number of predictable "next moves":

      Internet becomes "iNet". This is to fit with Apple's product naming scheme, which is cool, and therefore something that Wired is terribly concerned about associating itself with.

      "I see" becomes "i c". Wired constantly promotes the claim that the Internet (oops, sorry -- "internet") is going to completely drive our lives and our culture, and currently most authorship is done via chat. What better way to argue their point than to let themselves be completely swayed by typos and shortcuts from chat?

      Micropayments are "hip", so Wired stops selling "subscriptions" and starts selling "micropayments in twelve chunk block minimums".

      "Internet time", or "beats" (a desperate attempt by Swatch, who has put every useful gadget and more onto a watch, to produce new required features to drive watch sales) will be adopted by Wired. I'm not sure that "beats" are hip or not, but they're certainly stupid and Internet culture-oriented, so Wired should love them. They can say "It took me @45 to write this article".

      Wired will no longer refer to themselves as a "magazine". "Magazines" are pre-Internet culture, and "'zine" is only marginally more "hip". No, tablet computers are "hip", and so Wired will sell "paper tablets".

      Speaking of "'zine", almost any word can be made more hip by chopping some prefix off and replacing the prefix with an apostrophe. We know this because a couple of sci fi authors have done this. Therefore, I won't "Download and read Wired on the Internet by 4:00 PM". Instead, I'll "'nload 'n rez wired on the internet by @3452". Where would we be without Wired for entertainment?
      • by American AC in Paris (230456) * on Monday August 16 2004, @12:45PM (#9982506) Homepage
        The internet was never a brand name, thus, there was no need to capitalize it.

        ...hwah? Ever heard of proper nouns? Is "Thomas MacKenzie Darby" a brand name? If so, where do you most frequently buy me?

        Next, you're gonna tell us that you can verb a noun so long as it's a registered trademark.

        Which would be seriously McDonald's'ed up.

      • Re:Next move... (Score:5, Informative)

        by slamb (119285) * on Monday August 16 2004, @12:49PM (#9982564) Homepage
        The internet was never a brand name, thus, there was no need to capitalize it.

        Wow, you've been thoroughly commercialized. Brand names aren't the only things capitalized in English.

        Proper nouns (also called proper names) are names and denote unique entities. [...] Proper nouns are capitalized in English and most or all other languages that use the Latin alphabet; this is one easy way to recognize them.

        (from Wikipedia [wikipedia.org])

        We refer to it as the Internet. Corporations have intranets. The capitalization conveys meaning. Wired's usage is wrong.

        • Re:Next move... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by JabberWokky (19442) <slashdot.com@timewarp.org> on Monday August 16 2004, @01:26PM (#9983080) Homepage Journal
          Thus the fairly interesting tracking of usage. For instance, some works refer to the south (as in the American south), while others refer to the South, which gives it a stronger identity. The same thing can occasionally be seen for the west/the West. It certainly gives the voice of the author or publication a stance on how they view the region.

          --
          Evan

          • Re:Next move... (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Hobbex (41473) on Monday August 16 2004, @01:58PM (#9983475)
            "The Internet" is the NAME of a single computer network. There are other networks with names, like Fidonet, Bitnet, Arpanet, etc, but most of them are not around anymore. Saying that it is no more a proper noun than car, refrigerator, or restaurant is simply wrong.

            If you had named your fridge "Old Whiny", your car "Betty", and your restaurant was named "The E-Coli Farm" it WOULD be correct to say:

            "Old Whiny is broken and the food is bad, so let's jump in Betty and go to The E-Coli Farm." (I skipped the food because few people name individual items of food.)

            That the The Internet happens to be a name in definite form does not make it any less of a name, just like The Netherlands is still the name of a country, and The Rocky Mountains is still the name of a mountain chain. (Note that "a rocky mountain" is something entirely different - just like "an internet.")
          • by Proteus (1926) on Monday August 16 2004, @02:09PM (#9983599) Homepage Journal
            There are scores of unique things which don't have their names capitalized. The earth. The sun. The internet is now one of those things. Initially, it was named the Internet because it wasn't unique. "Internet" was only capitalized in order to differentiate it from other large internetworks of computers back in the early days.
            Your very argument is flawed. The Earth should be capitalized, but "earth" may not be. Likewise with the Sun. If you refer to it as the name of the specific object (I live on Earth), it gets capitalized. Otherwise, (I enjoy having fresh earth between my fingers) it may not be.

            Capitalization of proper nouns exists to increase comprehension. The Internet was named that way because it was unique. There were, agreed, many inter-networks, but the Internet was the "mother of all internets" as it aimed to connect them all into one global inter-network.

            Corporations have intranets, but they may also have inter-networks with various vendors and customers -- these may not always be part of the Internet. So, as long as it is possible to have an internet that is not the Internet, the proper version should be capitalized.

            Wired is merely hoping to be ahead of the curve in suggesting that it won't be long before all internets are part of the Internet -- and then it won't matter if the term is capitalized at all.
      • Re:Next move... (Score:5, Informative)

        by iksowrak (208577) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:49PM (#9982579)
        The Internet was never a brand name but the capital I Internet is used to differentiate between the global Internet and other internetworks or internets. There's more than one internet but only one Internet.
            • by cheese_wallet (88279) on Monday August 16 2004, @02:44PM (#9983933) Journal
              "Intranet" is meaningless marketspeak which usually applies to a Web site.

              The technical term "internet" applies to a collection of "networked networks".

              Genius.


              Apparently you haven't made it into the real world yet. Intra means within. Inter means between. You have interstate roads (crossing boundaries) and intrastate roads (stay within the state). A corporations network that is not open to the public is an intranet. It is used only within (intra) the company.

              intranet is most certainly not meaningless marketspeak.
      • by 0x0d0a (568518) on Monday August 16 2004, @01:06PM (#9982806) Journal
        The internet was never a brand name, thus, there was no need to capitalize it.

        Capitalization is determined by whether or not something is a proper noun, not by whether it is a brand name. The Internet is a proper noun, as opposed to "the internet", which would refer to, say, one's private corporate internet.

        If you'd like other examples: nobody owns the "Pacific Ocean", but because there is only one "Pacific Ocean" (despite being many oceans that could be called pacific) we capitalize it. There are many moons, but only one Moon. There are many presidents, but President as a title is capitalized, because it is used as a proper noun.

        The proper way to refer to Google is "Google" when using the term as a noun -- it is a proper noun that refers to a company. The *verb* "google", meaning "to search for on Google", is not capitalized.
  • wired is stealing my thunder. i started this trend when my shift key broke. curse you wired.

    damn shift key, i can't use the exclamation point to emphasize my rage.
  • by jdallien (564954) * on Monday August 16 2004, @12:35PM (#9982353)
    It doesn't bother me either way, captialized or not, but I think the comparision to television and phonograph isn't quite correct at this point. As of right now, we only have one Internet, hence referring to it as "the Internet", whereas there are many televisions, etc. To me the captialization comes more from using it like a proper name more than like a brand name. Somewhere down the road maybe there will be many networks called internets and it would make more sense to use it just as a normal noun.

    Or we could just not worry about it and get to work on the more pressing problems... should Microsoft be spelled with a $?
  • No more /.? (Score:5, Funny)

    by JohnGrahamCumming (684871) * <slashdot@@@jgc...org> on Monday August 16 2004, @12:35PM (#9982356) Homepage Journal
    Hopefully we can drop /. now and instead hold down the SHIFT and all surf over to ?>

    John.
  • by garcia (6573) * on Monday August 16 2004, @12:36PM (#9982367) Homepage
    Why? The simple answer is because there is no earthly reason to capitalize any of these words. Actually, there never was.

    Well there was never any reason to capitalize "net" for the simple fact that it is really 'net which is a shortened version of "Internet". I consider the Internet a specific place and thus deserving of capitalization.

    If It's Capitalized, It Must Be Important.

    There are a lot of things that are important that aren't capitalized. Take for example "air" and "water". Most people don't capitalize either one of those. I suppose there may be some groups out there like "wateries" or "airheads" that may refute my claims but they can write their own damn non-sense. I'd prefer they save it for 4/1/2005 though.

    That it transformed human communication is beyond dispute. But no more so than moveable type did in its day. Or the radio. Or television.

    Small nitpick here... If you are talking about "the radio" instead of radio there is a slight difference. Radio is talking about the medium where "the radio" is talking about the big box over in the corner of the living room that talks.

    I will continue to refer to it as "Internet" as it is my all knowing God. Maybe that's why Google is capitalized? :)
  • by sulli (195030) * on Monday August 16 2004, @12:36PM (#9982368) Journal
    lowercase makes one handed typing easier
  • by barzok (26681) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:37PM (#9982390)
    people stop writing WEB when it's not an acronym or abbreviation.
  • The reason (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Order (469817) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:38PM (#9982399)
    There never was a reason to capitalize "Internet"?!
    Or perhaps Wired News simply don't know what they're talking about?
    The "internet" is any set of networks connected with routers. The "Internet" is the largest such network, that uses TCP/IP.

    From FOLDOC:

    Internet [ic.ac.uk]
    internet [ic.ac.uk]
  • by Chairboy (88841) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:40PM (#9982433) Homepage
    Based on observed trends, it seems to be a good move. As a manager, I rely on my team to give me direction on technological improvements. Decapitalization of key words is consistent with the observed behaviors 'in the wild'. For example, I recently received the following emails that suggest Wired's decision is accurate:

    'im working on something alredy, so go stuff yourself and get back to browsing the internet'

    'Hey ass, next time you can't get to your stupid Sims board, check whether your network cable is even plugged in before telling everyone that "the internet is down"'

    'Jeesus, Ben, stop sending me that gd Bonzai Buddy trash! I don't care if it's cute, that little bastard screwed up my internet settings! I lost a weeks worth of work!'

    If my team uses that type of capitalization, then I know it's just a matter of time before it catches on.

    Regards,

    PHB
  • who cares (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nuggz (69912) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:40PM (#9982438) Homepage
    Does it really matter?
    Does the capitalization improve or impede understanding in any way?

    English is a fluid language, constantly changing and slightly different everywhere.
    It has different spelling pronounciation and accents everywhere. Despite the best hopes of the wannabe language police, english has and will continue to change.
  • Name of place (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Barryke (772876) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:40PM (#9982441) Homepage
    I see the Internet as a place, like Amsterdam or Mars.
    A proper name of place is capitalized, hence i capitalize the Internet accordingly.
  • by nlawalker (804108) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:41PM (#9982460)
    The internet will continue to be a victim of capitalism.
  • Tanenbaum (Score:5, Informative)

    by Gumshoe (191490) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:41PM (#9982461)
    The reason we capitalise 'Internet' is so that we can distinguish between it and mere 'internets'. 'Internet', with a lower case 'i', refers to any set of interconnected networks. Whereas 'Internet', with a capital 'i' refers to "the specific, worldwide internet that is widely used to connect universities, government offices, companies and [...] private individuals". That quotation incidentally comes from Tanenbaum's textbook, "Computer Networks" (3rd edition, page 16) where he made the exact same distinction that I have just made.

    It's always been capitalised and always will be AFIAC.
  • Wikipedia comment (Score:5, Informative)

    by Raul654 (453029) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:43PM (#9982484) Homepage
    (Speaking as a Wikipedia admin) - god, oh god, why did you link to the *TALK* page and not the article? Sigh...
  • Another one that always bothered me..."worldwide" [reference.com] is one word. So it should be Worldwide Web...as in ww.slashdot.org and not www.
  • by Black Perl (12686) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:46PM (#9982529)
    e e

    cummings

    would
    be

    proud

  • Some cap changes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by davidsyes (765062) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:47PM (#9982533) Homepage Journal
    I almost NEVER proper-case microsoft (lower-casing/deprecation intentional). Sometimes, to get around honoring uppercasing for ms, I just use the initial msie, ms excel, NT4.0, win XP or W2K SP#... This way, it looks like a minor omission.

    Hmm, I guess ms will try to use meta tags and other technology to "clean up" documents, especially those that have "microsoft" (lower-casing/deprecation intentional) in them. Or, didn't they try that, only to be blasted for over-reaching into peoples' documents?

    When will we get people to correctly use:

    -"log on" as a verb and "logon" as the noun?

    -"insecure" for emotional states of mind

    -"non-secure" regarding the nature of the Internet. The Internet cannot be "insecure", since it is not a sentient/organic/thinking thing.

    When I was aboardship/aboard ship, and was Petty Officer of the Watch, I/we answered the landline/land line as "Quarterdeck, USS Flint. Petty Officer Syes Speaking. This is a non-secure line; how may I help you sir, or ma'am?"

    Phone lines are never insecure, so why the Internet? I think it was because a bunch of marketers took over the security message aspect of the Internet. Or, some engineers who are FANTASTIC programmers just happened to select the wrong word from the dictionary and it "stuck".

    Even "unsecure" might seem better that "insecure".

    =========
    Hmmm... I just ran a "dictionary.com" search on "insecure" and got these:

    1. Not sure or certain; doubtful: unemployed and facing an insecure future.
    2. Inadequately guarded or protected; unsafe: A shortage of military police made the air base insecure.
    3. Not firm or fixed; unsteady: an insecure foothold.
    4. Lacking stability; troubled: an insecure relationship.
    5. Lacking self-confidence; plagued by anxiety: had always felt insecure at parties.

    ========

    Well, to me, number 2 sounds stupid, as if someone POST-COLDWAR got caught up in the "insecure Internet" description thing.

    I guess I'll have to go to pre-Internet boom dictionaries to find out if "insecure" back then was described as in item #2 above...

    David Syes
  • by p0rnking (255997) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:47PM (#9982544) Homepage
    With most of the words in question, I don't see the point in having the first letter capitalized, such as email, web, net (wich is slang for Internet), but with Internet vs. internet, I thought there was a difference between the 2, where internet refers an "inter-network (a link between networks which has not been tied to The Internet), and Internet refers to the "net".
  • by Sam Nitzberg (242911) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:49PM (#9982580)
    Wikipedia has a good write-up at the top of its entry for Internet:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

    and I appreciate the manner in which it addresses the "popular parlance" for "internet" in terms of the commonly used services on the Internet, e.g. "A system running internet services." (my example, based on Wikipedia's narrative).

    There is also a good discussion of Capitonyms:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitonym

    I think Wikipedia got it right.
  • Stupid Wired (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 0x0d0a (568518) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:51PM (#9982603) Journal
    (a) Nobody cares. Nobody, most of all Wired (which tries to coin terms and screw with the language unsuccessfully on a very frequent basis) has the ability to just decree that everyone is going to change capitalization or spelling of a word. The includes dictionaries -- they just codify common usage.

    (b) Insofar as there is a correct way of doing things, "Internet" should be capitalized. We use "the Internet". It is a proper noun (which, surprise surprise, should be capitalized) that refers to something quite different from "an internet" -- I can build "an internet" running IPX attaching a couple of networks, but "the Internet" runs IP and is a rather large entity that currently spans the world.

    (c) I hate journalists that try to leave their mark on the world by affecting the language.

    (d) Tell you what. I think that there's "no reason to capitalize 'Wired'" -- after all, there's another term, "wired", which exists, and surely we should just merge the two. So from now on, "Wired" can be referred to as "wired". Of course, the newly-redubbed "wired" people will probably take issue with this, as it's confusing and doesn't gain anything, and violates English rules, but I want to get my name out there on etymologies for mucking with a word. It's "wired" now. Oh, and "Tony Long", the editor pushing this? He can be "tony long", or just "long" for short.
  • More importantly... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cafebabe (151509) on Monday August 16 2004, @01:08PM (#9982833)
    Can we now ban apostrophes in "CPU's", "MP3's", etc.? It just kills me that even The New York Times (which is normally a stickler for grammar) has adopted that bastardized punctuation as their standard.
  • It's a proper name (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dracolytch (714699) on Monday August 16 2004, @01:18PM (#9982982) Homepage
    We still capitalize the Earth, Atlantic Ocean, and McDonalds. Just because something's world-known and basically ubiquitous doesn't keep it from being a proper noun.

    ~D
    • by ack154 (591432) * on Monday August 16 2004, @12:36PM (#9982364)
      eh hem...

      "The internet is a communications tool used the world over where people can come together to bitch about movies and share pornography with one another."

      Great movie.
    • by IshanCaspian (625325) on Monday August 16 2004, @12:42PM (#9982465) Homepage
      A lot of people joke around about this, but the truth of the matter is that he never claimed that he "invented it," only that he secured funding for it. This funding was instrumental in its creation. Really, this whole joke is just another example of a witty Republican smear that has no basis in fact.

      http://dir.salon.com/tech/col/rose/2000/10/05/go re _internet/index.html
          • by EvanED (569694) <evaned@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Monday August 16 2004, @01:31PM (#9983138)
            The abbreviation 'i.e.' does NOT mean 'for example.' If you want 'for example', use 'e.g.'

            The former is an abbreviation for the latin 'id est', which means 'that is'. It's a rephrasing of what came before.

            Your use is probably not strictly wrong, as reading it with 'that is' works, just 'e.g.' ('exempli grati') would work better.
        • by Valdrax (32670) on Monday August 16 2004, @01:37PM (#9983234)
          I thought the point was that my 192.168.1.0/24 behind my linksys access point is "an internet". The 66.35.250.0/24 slashdot is on is "an internet" (unlike mine, a publicly routeable one). An internet is any network that uses, surprise surprise, the "internet protocol".

          What you are talking about is an intranet, not an internet. The Internet is the connection of multiple networks to each other. It is a network of networks, thus it sits between other networks and earns the inter- prefix. Intra- means within one's own logical grouping. A corporate network, Slashdot's server farms, and your person home network are intranets because they are a network of machines within one logical organization.

          This is why there can be only one Internet unless you make a completely separate other network between networks that doesn't talk to the first one at all. That's very unlikely to happen until we start building colonies on other worlds, and we'll probably have slow, laggy connections between them even then. I see no reason to decapitalize the Internet since there can be only one. (No Highlander jokes, please.)
          • by j1m+5n0w (749199) on Monday August 16 2004, @02:09PM (#9983597) Homepage Journal
            I thought the point was that my 192.168.1.0/24 behind my linksys access point is "an internet". The 66.35.250.0/24 slashdot is on is "an internet" (unlike mine, a publicly routeable one). An internet is any network that uses, surprise surprise, the "internet protocol".
            What you are talking about is an intranet, not an internet. The Internet is the connection of multiple networks to each other. It is a network of networks, thus it sits between other networks and earns the inter- prefix. Intra- means within one's own logical grouping. A corporate network, Slashdot's server farms, and your person home network are intranets because they are a network of machines within one logical organization.

            A collection of machines that can talk directly to each other over a common link layer (like ethernet) is a network. A network may use IP for convenience, but if everyone's using the same subnet, its just a simple network. (Calling it an intranet may be correct, but it's not very informative (unless you're talking about administrative domains), since an intranet could be a network or an internetwork.)

            A collection of interconnected networks that communicate using a common link-layer independant internetworking protocol (like IP) is an internet (regardless of whether it is connected to the Internet).

            The Internet is the largest connected internet.

            -jim