How Do You Get Into Robotics? 118
Chosen Reject asks: "With Voyager I passing the 100 AU mark, and the Mars Rovers continuing to work longer than expected, there's been a lot of talk about robotics. There are cars that can park without humans, the DARPA Grand Challenge, the Autonomous Underwater Vehicle Competition, and even the X-Prize. NASA has the pros, the others have all levels of amateurs, but where does a newbie go to learn about robotics? Obviously I can't start out with the next Mars Rover, but where do I go to learn how to make a simple robotic arm that can hold my can of Root Beer?"
Mindstorm (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Mindstorm (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously, this isn't rocket science. It's all about making a machine, then programming it to do something that we humans think is intelligent. (Or at least, not too stupid.)
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And there's a whole swathe of alternative programming languages.
Re:Mindstorm (Score:5, Informative)
There's a surprising amount of things that can be done with Mindstorms. You can even use a wide variety of alternative programming languages such as robotC [cmu.edu] or leJos [sourceforge.net] a form of Java. These are just two of many different projects.
Just have a look around and you'll find lots of different pages about modding, and making custom bricks. It's much more potent than any of the "build your own robot-arm" type of kits. (which you can also do with Mindstorms [umontreal.ca])
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I'm not too familiar with the different Mindstorms programming projects myself. For beginners it would probably be best to use Legos own softwar
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The very first Lego Robotics kit, back in the early 1980s, was a turtle robot. To program it, you used Lego Logo- a special version of the Logo programming language, which was well known as a teaching tool for object orientation (before it was popular) and top-down design, by using turtle graphics. Lego Logo was indeed text based, using such commands as FW (Forward, with a units parameter), RT and LT (Right and Left with a degrees parameter), PU and PD (Pen Up and Pe
2nd reply (Score:2)
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Mindstorms is a great tool to get into Robotics.
I think the best way to get into robotics is actually with Lego's you can start putting them together and gradually working in mechanical capabilities into them. When you are comfortable putting together mechanical movement devices then you know you are ready to move to the next level.
Mindstorms and also the Vex robotics kit are great though they require a lot of work and need someone dedicated.
But really all it takes is some interest and a little bit of
The matrix... (Score:1)
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It Depends.... (Score:4, Informative)
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Mechanical Engineering would be a good major as well (and of course ME + CS would be ideal).
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I'm also a robotics guy (just finished undergrad with a big focus on controls/mobile robots/embeded systems, accepted to U of I and UCLA for masters work in controls in ME but decided to delay.) I'm currently a Chicago resident, and am trying out a few different career paths, still thinking that robotics is going to be a part of wherever I end up job-wise. Would you be interested in chatting over email on the subjects of robotics and jobs and such? drop me an email if so, stcorbett on
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You say that "engineers and scientists...must be able to communicate in an efficient, effective manner." Why do you think that powerpoint is overused? Most of us train in technical skills, not in writing or communication.
You erroneously state that "engineers and scie
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In fact, 60% of engineering types are not effective communicators at all.
I you have ever worked in an engineering office or team, there is a lead or manager that communicates to the clients.
FIRST (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:FIRST (Score:4, Informative)
FIRST is a great competition. And even if you can't get directly involved, some of the teams sites have a wealth of robotics information. www.chiefdelphi.com, the home of one of the original teams, has some great resources.
The competitions are also a great gathering of engineers and recruiters from the big names in engineering - Delphi, NASA, GM, Ford... there are hundreds of sponsors.
But most importantly, by volunteering, you're helping high schoolers have something nerdy that they can feel proud of.
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I am on the design team for the FIRST Lego Challenge for next year. Cool stuff, and the Lego Mindstorms are cheap and flexible.
Oddest. Question. Ever. (Score:3, Informative)
2. There is no step 2, you've started.
Maybe check Amazon for some highly rated books, play with some Lego Mindstorms [wikipedia.org], etc. It's really not all that hard. A robot is just a machine that follows pre-programmed commands. It circuitry is capable of controlling a set of electromechanical parts (like a stepper motor), so the rest is up to software. The primary difference between a robot and say, your car, is that a robot's software makes it autonomous. Simple software just plays back commands (e.g. an assembly line) while complex software uses photoelectric sensors, touch sensors, accelerameters, etc. to determine how to interact with its environment.
If you want to make this a serious hobby, then I highly recommend getting yourself a background in computer programming, electronics engineering, and mechanical engineering. You don't need anything special. Most of the info you'd need you can get from the library.
Good luck.
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Please get it from a website, not Radio Shack. Most of the stores carry a few Vex items, but most of the workers will not really know what you're asking about. Radio Shack does not deserve patronage from intelligent folks right now. [slashdot.org] Also, a hobby store will be a good place to meet up with someone who can help you with hands-on experience, while a local electronics shop can help with the engineering aspect of things.
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Get some Galoob toys (Score:2, Interesting)
The big thing you want to keep in mind is that robotics is no different from any other sort of engineering field. The same physical laws that work in Structural Engineering will work in Robotics. The same development g
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There are multiple BSPs available for the Gumstix HW. I believe that they provide a Linux port, and I know that you can get the WinCE Platform Builder OS design/development software for free for 180 days and there are groups out there working on Gumstix packages for that.
But what? You don't like Galoob?
My favourite robot site (Score:2)
Depends (Score:5, Insightful)
Just realize that robotics encompasses several disparate fields - various software disciplines, electronics, electromechanics, wood- plastic- and metalworking and so on - each one of which is more than a full academic field in itself. Don't expect to develop real expertise in all areas; find the areas in robotics that especially fascinate you and focus on that.
For academic or industrial "real" robotics, expect to first take a Masters or equivalent in any of the disciplines you need (some areas could be mechanical engineering, control theory, computational neuroscience, even psychology), then widen your general knowledge and deepend your area of expertise through a good PhD program. After which, of course, you'll find few real research positions and a lot of very qualified applicants - but that's a different issue
How do you learn robotics? (Score:2)
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In my reality the slashdot army throws out the instructions along with the warranty cards and celophane wrapings.
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Vex Robotics Kit (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, Lego Mindstorms is always good for a quick fix if you want to play around before getting too committed.
Finally, for the wannabe robot expert in all of us, you might consider trying Mind Rover: The Europa Project [lokigames.com] to create virtual autonomous robots on your computer and make them compete.
Linux Journal to the rescue! (Score:3, Informative)
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But honestly, this is not the kind of article were you can learn how-to do a linux-running: it simply says how they use it, but you are not going to find anything "usable" from there.
Try digging in HackADay [hackaday.com] or Make [makezine.com] instead.
3 main ways... CS, ECE, or ME (Score:3)
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How Do You Get Into Robotics? (Score:5, Funny)
Step 2: Climb in
Robotics clubs (Score:1)
.,. by thinking and doing (Score:1)
The three main things (Score:3, Informative)
You're looking at three main bits to get the whole thing up and running:
(obviously there's some overlap here)
If you have limited experience with these things, a kit from somewhere like Lego or Fischertechnik is an excellent place to start. These will take care of the hard stuff, letting you get straight in. Its also a good way to test the waters - see if you really want to get into robotics (it can become addictive and expensive very quickly).
If you want to do it yourself, I recommend these books by David Cook:
See also http://www.robotroom.com/ [robotroom.com]
I tend not to get into the body building much, preferring off-the-shelf stuff. Basic Lego Technic sets have served me well, and I'm currently using Tamiya gearboxes and bases. I'm far more interested in the computer side, building small microcontroller-based computers and writing the software from scratch.
Hobby electronics. (Score:2)
After that it's easier to see what you want to do with robotics, and it's a LOT less intimidating to go forward to bigger and better things.
heres a short list of some stuff to get you started.
Elect
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Couple suggestions (Score:5, Informative)
2) Hobby robot clubs. They're sprining up quite similarly to the computer clubs of old.
3) As already suggested, lots of people like mindstorms, but I've no personal experience with these.
4) Kits. You can purchase kits for a number of robots, including robot sumo competition kits.
5) Pyrobot. You might want to check it out. It's a software simulation kit (I think that it can drive some robots too) that was being pushed at AAAI-2005 for teaching robotics at the undergraduate and perhaps high school levels. It comes on a Linux LiveCD. It's mostly about writing software in python.
One thing to kick around. If a project that you want to do out of one of the older books asks for a computer... check out a less-expensive alternative. Most of these projects were written for hardware that is positively old and inexpesive by modern standards (it's been 10 years since I read The Robot Builder's Bonanza, first). If you have the cash and patience to learn about PICs, you might consider it time well spent later in life.
So, now you're looking at college perhaps? Major in computer science, mechanical engineering, or electrical engineering. Each focus on different facets that can be of use in robotics. If you're into cognitive science, psychology isn't a bad bet... I have no personal experience with that one though. I went computer science, which is also a fairly good route to cog sci if you go artificial intelligence.
The breakdown looks like this though:
Computer Science - Artificial Intelligence
Mechanical Engineering - Design & Control
Electrical Engineering - Control
If you want to go straight out into industry building robots, mechanical engineering isn't a bad bet. If you want to do research with humanoid robots and the like, computer science is your best bet. Mechanical engineering also has lots of good research in robotics, and you'll have more opportunities to fiddle with them as an undergrad. If you're in college, check out your school's Mechatronics course, they're becoming far more common.
Research will certainly require a PhD. I'm currently in a PhD program working in a robotics lab with a humanoid robot. It's very very very cool.
At any rate. If you're still in high shcool, starting out in high school isn't a bad bet, just make sure you keep up with your classes and grades. If you want to go the PhD route, the best thing to do is to go to a good undergrad school, get solid grades, and, most importantly, find a professor to do some work with... preferably research. Your letters of recommendation will make or break you for admission to a PhD program. Stay on the good side of your professors, at least three of them. Also, remember, it doesn't hurt to have a famous professor in your corner, but a professor who knows you better, but is less influential, is more helpful than a professor who is quite influential but barely knows you.
If you screw up any of the above steps, that's ok too. I definitely didn't do everything perfectly on my route here, but I still got into an exceptional school with a world-class lab and work with a professor who has made quite a name for himself.
Also, check out these cool pictures, featured in this month's issue of popular science http://www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/b67188432
The 4 step plan (Score:4, Funny)
2. Bodypopping
3. ?????
4. ROBOTICS
Re:The 4 step plan (Score:4, Funny)
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BEAM (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.solarbotics.net/ [solarbotics.net]
In the professional sense, many engineering schools have faculty specializing in robotics. They tend to dwell in CS, EE, or MechE departments.
Get a phD (Score:2)
The post below assumes that you are interested in robotics as a career path, not as a weekend hobbyist thing.
I'm in a robotics undergrad degree at the University of Waterloo (the Mechatronics program, to be specific), and I've involved in quite a bit of robotics on campus as well as on the internship level. My suggestion is: don't stop at undergrad, or even masters. You can get INTO robotics with an undergrad or masters degree, sure, but if you want to touch any of the very interesting work, or have high-
Step 1...alcohol (Score:1)
2. Go to car factory.
3. Get drunk.
Well first off (Score:2)
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I want some.
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The gp post is a reference to the anime series Neon Genesis Evangelion. I've seen friends financially broken by their devotion to it.
As the t-shirt says: "Anime: Drugs would be cheaper"
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I musn't run away... (Score:2)
I musn't run away...I musn't run away!!!
*sigh* shinji is such a little b*tch.
This may change your mind. (Score:2, Funny)
Read a book! (Score:2)
Lego Technics sets got me started with mechanics at a young age, and the book (my yellow covered, dog eared, marked up 1st edition) pushed me the rest of the way. I grabbed the books on the Rug Warrior from the MIT crew as a second step, though I didn't pursue them.
The Parallax BOEBot [parallax.com] is wonderful too. it's a lot more expensive, but it's an all in one kit that can get you a light reactive
Bear in mind how little is going on commercially (Score:5, Insightful)
There are academic programs, but the US robotics industry is tiny. I have a slide I use in talks; it compares total spending on robots, mobile robots, and ringtones. Ringtones are far bigger.
Robot R&D in Japan is serious, but in the US, it's the same old academic groups grinding away. The number of US commercial companies shipping products in the mobile robot space is very small, as is number of units shipped. Above the Roomba/toy level, there just aren't any volume applications. This seriously limits job and business prospects. There's a market in teleoperators for bomb disposal applications, and the machinery developed for that is quite nice, but it's not autonomous.
Even industrial robotics and factory automation is declining in the US. With manufacturing moving offshore to low-wage countries, the end of union labor, and a huge supply of illegal immigrants, plants are less automated than they were twenty years ago. The original Macintosh had less assembly labor in it than today's PCs. I can't recommend a US career in manufacturing engineering today.
Robot hardware is better than ever. The Lego Mindstorms stuff is primitive, but around $1000, things get quite good. Check out RoboNova [hitecrobotics.com]. Further upscale, see Mobile Robots, Inc. [mobilerobots.com]
The theory is getting better. Vision is starting to work. Planning actually works in the real world now. Adaptive control and learning finally work. There's enough CPU power to do hard stuff in real time on cheap hardware. Much is technically possible. But the market isn't there.
I ran one of the DARPA Grand Challenge teams [overbot.com]. That didn't really lead anywhere. The two best young people we had are doing very well, but not in robotics. One is running a hedge fund and one is working for an offshore derivatives fund. Of the older people, one is running a big web server farm, and one has retired. If you understand all the practical stuff and all the theoretical stuff to operate at that level, you can do very well at other things. But the payoff isn't in robotics.
This field needs a killer app.
Re:Bear in mind how little is going on commerciall (Score:2)
This field needs a killer robot.
Re:Bear in mind how little is going on commerciall (Score:1)
Make love robots, not war robots.
KFG
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Industrial automation is becoming so inexpensive that its a no brainer... as small shops like o
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While i do conceed that the overall manufacturing levels in the US are declining, the amount of manufacturing done by automation is rapidly expanding.
Right. What manufacturing is left in the US is heavily automated. Visit a US plant that makes some high volume consumer product, and you'll see barely any people. If it's labor-intensive, it's been offshored by now.
US robot sales are falling right now. For the first half of 2006, "total sales for North American robot suppliers totaled 7,141 robots va
Lego? (Score:1)
Microhydraulics (Score:2)
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Are you in college? (Score:2)
Also if its a student run team with nothing solid pushing them (ie: failing a class if
As with most fields of knowledge... (Score:1)
I started... (Score:1)
-Taylor
The secret is: (Score:2)
Make Robot
Teach it English
Program it to hit keys on a keyboard
No-one would ever guess you're not a real person.
Unexpected Next without For
Core Dump
EEEE:3244
Suggestions..... (Score:3)
1) If you're in high school (US), try to see if your school has a First or Best team. If they don't, find one close by and talk to them. You might be able to start one
1b) If you're not in high school, find a local school that has a First or Best team, and offer to mentor. You can learn a lot
2) Join a local hobby robot club. I'm co-vice president of the atlanta hobby robot club (www.botlanta.org).
3) Build something! Get a kit...Vex, Boebot, Mindstorm, etc.
4) Combat robotics is an almost entirely different field from the rest of hobby robotics, but it can still be fun. (I'm talking here of the radio controlled combat robots, not autonomous sumos)
Okay, so go build yourself a sumo bot! And remember, a robotic arm is NOT simple....
ttyl,
--buddy
Like Louis Armstrong said about Jazz (Score:2)
You get into it by getting into it. You start by starting. Go do something!
I started in 8th grade by just saving my allowance and buying parts from radio shack and the local hardware store. Just try something. Build whatever you want to build. If you need to learn something to build what you want to build, learn it. If you're building something to impress your friends, fine, build something shiney and awesome. Otherwise, just do what you want and follow yo
Local Positioning System (Score:1)
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Until they make robots water-tight, mast producing them is counter-productive.
Mindstorms and a good imagination (Score:1)
My advice to you is go spend $250 at Target/Amazon/etc on Lego Mindstorms NXT. Then use your imagination and come up with 20 or so simple robots you can think of to do cool little things. Then, depending on how much free time you have, take one off the list and actually build it with your set. One a month, one a week, whatever. Just start building. You'll learn so much while experimenting wi
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Fischertechnik. It is double the price but worth it. Many colleges use it in their robotics curriculum. The par
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I didn't intend to exclude other kits, I was simply comparing NXT to say, RadioShack sets which are the same price but much harder to get started with if you're a total beginner with no formal background in robotics. I'd rather spend my $250 on it than any other set.
Also with your set, which you say is twice the price, may not appeal to someone just getting started. It may be more of an intermediate set to get when he grows tired of Lego Mindstorms
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How do you get into (insert interest here) (Score:2)
You do it. If you want to be really good at it you do it a lot.
And don't just read about it (unless the interest IS reading), books and the net are good for pointers but experience counts a lot more in getting good at things.
Start wth kits, cobble together junk, make some mistakes (try to make them non-lethal on non-dangerous) You will get a "feel" for what works for you and what doesn't.
You can never be too old or too young - but you can be too lazy or just not interested enough.
Hacking toys (Score:1)
1. buy a book like "The Robot Builder's Bonanza" (already mentioned elsewhere)
2. go get an OOPic (http://www.oopic.com/ [oopic.com]) this is less than $100 and lets you start learning about microcontrollers. It even has some microswitches and led's onboard, so you can start learning without getting into electronics yet.
3. now go buy a radio controlled tank from your local toystore. take the top off and remove the
College (Score:2)
FIRST VeX Challenge (Score:1)
Ron
Coach Angelbots (www.angelbots.org)
Another list here (Score:2)
LEGO NXT [lego.com] & Mindstorms are both great kits to play around in. Especially if you have traditional LEGO bricks and Technic pieces already.
If you are more into Erector style kits, then go with the Vex [vexlabs.com] kits from Radio Shack. They are clearing them out for some reason, so they are cheap. Make sure you get a programming kit though.
If you want more "professional" robots, maybe take a look at Lynxmotion [lynxmotion.com], they have really really coo
Robot books by David Cook (Score:1)
Very VERY hard work! (Score:2)
Some people might argue that we already have robots in the form of assembly lines, remote-controlled vehicles and other machinery. For some definition of robotics, this is true, and s
How to get into robotics (Score:1)
2. Open access panel with screwdriver
3. Insert favorite appendage into access panel
4. You are now into robotics
On a more serious note, the Omron C200H programmable logic controller, which was several thousand $ when first released around 1990, is now available on ebay way cheap. These things are full scale industrial automation controllers (Can control pretty much anything with it, servomotors, lights, pneumatics, hydraulics, anything.) Can get these tiny 3/4 proximity detectors
Some Very Useful Links (Score:1)
Mmm robots (Score:1)
Hear's another vote for FIRST-related stuff. I was on a high school team and now I mentor and help to run the Boston regional competition. It's a really great program.
LEGO MindStorms and VEX kits are great. I took a BOEBot (parallax.com, I think) to my senior prom -- it ran on a BASIC Stamp (old school!). These all come with great documentation.
If you're in to programming, try a Roomba. The ones iRobot makes. They opened up their SCI protocol and they're inviting hackers to do fun and interest
How to start... (Score:1)
The traditional way to genuinely get into robotics is to go to graduate schools in a school with a strong robotics groups (or person) in Computer Science, Electrical Enginnering, or Mech Eng, or Robotics. Seriosu robotics requires a good background in mathematics to
Trossen Robotics (Score:1)