Mac Mini and iPod Hi-Fi Over-Hyped? 317
RX8 writes "Analyst Michael Greeson takes a look at Apple's new products, the Mac Mini (Intel based) and iPod Hi-Fi and explains why they were over-hyped and how that can damage Apple. Michael explains that when you are 'an industry innovator - when your products fall short of being truly original, your own success becomes your worst enemy.'" Update: 03/04 00:07 GMT by Z : As many posters have pointed out, the article here has little to do with the synopsis. This article is mostly about the design for the mac mini and its remote, which is a fairly interesting topic. Mea culpa, folks.
Amateur Hour (Score:5, Informative)
For one, Greeson specifically states that he's not going to go into whether or not Apple overhyped their latest releases; by the tone he takes, one suspects that he sees the grumbling of "Apple's fanatical base" as a largely unavoidable cost of taking innovative risks. Beyond that, though, the focus of his article is on the remote control included with the mini; how it is simultaneously easy-to-use and powerful--he calls it "sophisticated simplicity"; and how he hopes and expects future devices to try to mimic Apple's design choice.
Instead, this summary takes a throwaway bit from the introduction and completely ignores the entire point of Mr. Greeson's article. The summary goes on to state that Mr Greeson thinks Apple over-hyped their latest product release--even though he explicitly says otherwise in his article. If I were Mr. Greeson, I'd be more than a little peeved that you'd so fundamentally butchered and misrepresented my work. Not even two minutes of the most basic editorial work would have revealed this.
You've been trolled, Zonk, and now it falls to us to clear the air. Of course, the joke's on us, too: we're not the ones who are getting paid to do the job in the first place.
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:3, Funny)
Well, at least I'm not the only one who was frustrated.
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:4, Funny)
Well, you've got to learn from the article submitters and moderates and only read the first paragraph of every submission, and then see how you can best angle that to stir up discontent between Mac using /.ers and Mac-hating /.ers.
Seriously, that summary is absurd. It might as well have read, "Apple Not As Cool As It Thinks, Study Shows," with bar graphs representing how cool Apple thinks it is (10), how cool it actually is (6), and how cool Steve Jobs thinks Apple is (und).
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:2, Funny)
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Re:Amateur Hour (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:3, Interesting)
The Mini revamp, anyways, adds those necessary yet simplistic features to make
Zonk, your fired!!! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Zonk, your fired!!! (Score:2)
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:2)
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:4, Insightful)
The new masthead (Score:2, Insightful)
Slashdot
News for nerds. Summaries that bear no resemblance to the articles they summarize.
YMMV. HTH. HAND.
--
Sig null
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:2)
Could it be that Zonk is not a carbon-based unit? Maybe he's just a script that accepts stories at random.
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:4, Insightful)
How many people do you know who bought a Mac mini for cutting edge gaming?
Would you whine about your new Dodge Neon not doing very well in the NASCAR standings?
Re:Amateur Hour (Score:5, Insightful)
I've written articles for a few sites in the past, not as anything professional, but come across the same problem. Enough of the feedback in site comments or email comes from people who betray their lack of comprehension by their comments. I'll write about how to install an apache module for example, and specifically state three steps to be taken in order to get everything working; the responses indicate people have jumped in and tried only step three, done all steps in a random order, or in some cases completely misread the point of the article. "Hi B, I'm writing about your article on how to get eaccelerator working, and I'm getting errors decompressing the archive according to Step 2"... so I reply "Hello user, I have never written an eaccelerator article, step 2 is how to decompress the archive for installing mod_gzip". Any & every permutation comes back at me. It's possibly a reflection of bad writing skills, but honestly I don't think my writing is THAT poor.
So it goes on, and I blame half-hearted attempts in school to introduce speed reading, where anybody can be taught in minutes to skim over two paragraphs and get words like "hype" "apple" "mac mini" and "intel" then make up their own story in-mind, without getting any real context or meaning from what's read.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Wait... (Score:2, Informative)
Don't take my word for it. Look at line 1 of the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor [wikipedia.org]
Re:Wait... (Score:2, Informative)
The article's not about hype at all... (Score:3, Informative)
As soon as the invitations hit the 'net, all sorts of rumours (note: these are *not* Apple-created) surface. Some people publicly projected their own desires onto the event, irrespective of how likely it is, and then these self-same people get all disappointed when their fantasy doesn't come true. These people need to (a) get out more, (b) have more sex, and (c) move on from the mental state of a five-year-old ("Me want", "Me want", "Me want"). [aside: note that (c), as applied to (b), is more likely after (a). Just a hint to get you started...]
The fault here lies solely, completely, and utterly with those who raise Apple on too high a pedestal. There's only so much cool stuff any one company can make (although I thought the new mini *was* pretty cool, personally).
Simon.
Re:The article's not about hype at all... (Score:2)
There are a lot of "communities" like this, but the most loony and entertaining to watch are the rabid Mac Lifers.
This isn't all Mac users, but enough of them
Re:The article's not about hype at all... (Score:2)
To a fanboy, the "conspicious" silence says more than a large advertising campaign ("Out Soon!" "Behold!" "Prepare To See Things You've Never Seen Before!") ever could. It's sort of like some conspiracy theories: Apple's not telling anyone anything (yet) or hyping anything, therefore they must be hiding something.
Re:The article's not about hype at all... (Score:2)
(a) get out more, (b) have more sex
Top of my to do list just as soon has I stop posting on slashdot.
Snoozer (Score:2)
But, then again, Apple wasn't the only one who hyped this up. Didn't the rumor sites all predict a bigger video iPod?
Re:Snoozer (Score:3, Informative)
Not really. It runs on d-cells just like any other portable boom-box.
That said, it has several strikes against it:
1. It costs to much to take it with you while tubing down the Apple river or to a tailgate party at a St. Paul Saints game. For the kind of places one usually hauls a boom box, you want to bring something that won't make you break down in tears if it gets run over by a car or smashed against rocks.
2. It's called
Re:Snoozer (Score:2)
but then, so does the iPod you connect to it.
Wait just a minute (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wait just a minute (Score:3, Interesting)
Instead of the PortalPlayer chipset, it switches to the SigmaTel 3500 series, the chipset that powers many no-brand "memory stick" style flash mp3 players (most end up getting stamped with a generic brand name by whatever compan
The old "gifted child" syndrome? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've seen lots of kids drop out of college because of reasoning like that from their parents. They get discouraged and stop trying, because they are capable of doing better, even when they aren't interested in "doing better" at the time.
Just seems counter productive to expect something groundbreaking from Apple everytime there's an annoucement. Apple didn't overhype it - the press did. The rumors sites did. Apple will display innovation when they have something innovative to ship - they never promised that the Intel-based machines would be anything groundbreaking - just Macs with Intel processors - which is exactly what they are, and more (Front Row).
So don't expect the gifted child of the computer industry to display brilliance in every assignment. That's not what being "gifted" about - even Ansel Adams made more average-level work than masterpieces.
Re:The old "gifted child" syndrome? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm reminded of this this study [nagc.org] estimating that perhaps 18 to 25% of American gifted and talented students drop out of high school.
Re:The old "gifted child" syndrome? (Score:2)
Hell, I almost became one of them.
I was light-years ahead of the other students in various subjects, but I was unlucky enough to have little aptitude for Math. Now, you have to understand that there is a pervasive belief that a high level of intelligence automatically translates into "Math Genius". If you are brilliant at math, weaknesses in other areas will be
Re:The old "gifted child" syndrome? (Score:4, Funny)
How is this overhyped? (Score:5, Insightful)
When they pull out the stops, it isn't in an event of this level.
Overpriced leather case aside, the stuff they rolled out was worth holding a minor event over...That's what this was, a minor event.
*=yeah, it wasn't the Cafeteria, but it was held in a location they already own, it's cheap floorspace to hold an announcement.
Re:How is this overhyped? (Score:2)
Umm? (Score:3, Funny)
Kind of neat, but what about channels with 7 8 9 and 0?
What are these "Channels" (Score:3, Informative)
Apple is bypassing the whole legacy model of Broadcast that is so ingraned, even technical people think we need "channels" instead of browsing for video content like we browse the web. Do you visit a web page on channel 8, then browse it for 30 minutes only to have it suddenly vanish?
The Mac MINI is primarily a home media center, not a PVR (though you can use it as such).
Re:What are these "Channels" (Score:2)
But note!! (Score:2)
Even that is "Channel 9" (as you typed), not just "9".
We don't browse by IP, I fail to see why the long term method of finding video does not use text I can read instead of arbitrary numbers with meaning mapped by temporality alone.
Re:What are these "Channels" (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What are these "Channels" (Score:3, Insightful)
So if you're looking for CNN, you look for CNN, not a number that happens to be associated with CNN.
Kind of like my post last week about Vista still using letters to designate drives. Its necessary to have a simple designation, but these sesignations are meaningless to the end user.
Re:What are these "Channels" (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it just me? (Score:2)
(I came to the conclusion, eventually, that it is Consumer Electronics - am I right?)
Re:Umm? (Score:2)
Also the on/off button, record button, volume, channel up/down, replay, mute... the buttons that TV and DVR (Tivo) users have gotten used to.
TFA misses TF point when he lavishly praises Apple's 6-button remote over Windows Media Center remotes. Try controlling Front Row's television/DVR functions with that 6-button remote. Of course, FR doesn't controll TV/DVR.
I suspect he
Maybe overhyped for the Mac fanboys... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm thinking about taking out my school loans just to buy something cool. I think both the Mac mini and the iPod Hi-Fi are totally sweet.
Over-hyped? Did the submitter read the article? (Score:3, Informative)
He explains why the 6 button remote is a great idea.
The article clearly says:
For the purpose of this essay, let's forget about whether Apple failed to live up to its own PR. In fact, let's ignore the PR strategy altogether and focus on one of the product announcements: the new Mac Minis.
Re:Over-hyped? Did the submitter read the article? (Score:2)
Mod article down (Score:2)
Re:Mod article down (Score:3, Informative)
They screwed the pooch on the hi-fi (Score:5, Interesting)
It's my belief that if Apple TRULY wanted market share, they'd follow Microsoft's lead on the Xbox and sell it at a loss but then make it up in other ways. If they sold the Mac Mini for $299 or even $349, they'd sell millions overnight, still make money on dot-Mac, iWork, keyboards, iTunes songs, iPods, etc. And they'd get a hugely larger share of the market. Then, when mom and dad send junior off to college, give him the mini and buy an iMac for at home, or buy junior an iBook, etc.
Re:They screwed the pooch on the hi-fi (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of your complaints can be traced back to the iPod itself. When it was first announced most people around here laughed it off as being nothing new and overpriced. Don't underestimate Apple's excellent product design and marketing expertise.
Re:They screwed the pooch on the hi-fi (Score:2)
Re:They screwed the pooch on the hi-fi (Score:2)
You are missing the market (Score:2)
Just as people who dissed the iPod mini not realizing that it was going after the flash player market, you miss the market Apple is going after with the iPod HiFi - the people that are buying other things j
Re:They screwed the pooch on the hi-fi (Score:2)
The sort of mystifying thing is that they simultaneously released the media center machine and the stereo syste
Re:They screwed the pooch on the hi-fi (Score:3, Insightful)
My first thought upon seeing the picture of it was, "where are the tweeters?"
Frequency response: 53Hz to 16kHz ± 3 dB
(From Apple's "Tech Specs")
16kHz? Absymal. It's not Hi-Fi - I've seen ghetto blasters with better specs. For what Apple's charging, you could buy a Chinese-made tube amp from eBay and still have enough money left over to buy a pair of speakers with better specs.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What the mini is missing (Score:2)
But as for the actual products the Mini needs one specific upgrade to be great option for living room multimedia: a faster hard disk [gadgetswanted.com]. At 5400 rpm they'll be slow at recording. But then PVR functionality doesn't seem to be in Apple's interest. They want us to download video through iTunes. But the Mini should have a faster HD to be ready to handle PVR functionality that others will program for or Apple will add later to sta
Firewire HD up to the task (Score:2)
On current mini's that provides a good boost in disc performance.
Re:What the mini is missing (Score:2)
No, you're wrong.
Off the top of my head, I can name at least 2 SD DTV PVRs which use 5400RPM, ATA-33 drives - the Topfield 5x00 [dtvforum.info] series, and the Humax Smart [dtvforum.info].
Note that both of these machines can simultaneously record 2 SD DTV streams while playing back a third from disc. That's 3 streams (2 write, 1 read) of ~6Mbps each, for a total of ~18Mbps. Or, roughly 2.5MBps (note "B", not "b").
Assuming a sustained transfer rate of 10MBps for a 5400RPM ATA-33 drive - which, hon
Re:What the mini is missing (Score:2)
Try gzipping a huge text file and browsing the web at the same time on a powerbook or mini. You'll see what I mean.
PowerPC Mac Mini For Cheap (Score:2)
Ignoring the article completely... (Score:4, Insightful)
Overhyped? More like hardly hyped at all.
Remote Controls (Score:5, Interesting)
In the European market things like design and elegance and simplicity are percieved to be important. Therefore a "good" remote control for the european market has very few buttons.
In the US, a remote control with a button for every feature and not as much software menus/interactions is more normal.
In Japan/Asia/Pacific, a remote control is considered to be "macho" if it has lots and lots of buttons. The more buttons, the better. A "lady's" remote control will be a little bit smaller and have a few less buttons. According to the folks who I learned this from, the average family would have a remote for the man of the house and a smaller lady's remote.
In the US, there would just be one remote and no one would think of it as a "macho" thing to have more buttons.
With regards to the Front Row remote, Steve Jobs (as usual) takes his queus from european sophisticates on his notions of design, simplicity, etc.
Re:Remote Controls (Score:2)
Mehhh! THIS [msrcsites.co.uk] is the only remote control worth having...
Re:Remote Controls (Score:2)
Which no one likes.
Even the most technical savy people I know will look at there remote to figure out what to do, or which button they accidently fat thumbed.
As far as the Japan market is concerned, they could always out with a one meter square model to show there friends how macho they are!
"With regards to the Front Row remote, Steve Jobs (as usual) takes his queus from european sophisti
Re:Remote Controls (Score:2)
"Fewer buttons" ought not to be confused with greater simplicity.
Consider the example of a DVD player remote control that I own -- many DVD player remote controls work in the same way:
The fast-forward/rewind buttons are overloaded to control the chapter skip functions. Press and release quickly for chapter skip. Press and hold b
Re:Remote Controls (Score:3, Insightful)
A True Lost Sale Mac Mini Story (Score:2)
I WANTED a Mac Mini.
My brother (unfortunately) purchased a G4 laptop 3 weeks before they released the Macbook pro, so I was in no hurry to by the Mini until they released it with the new chip.
I was expecting the same low price with a better processor.....like everything else tech.
Then I see the actual price....and it costs far more than the original and for what? A new chip? A puny hard drive? Not alot of memory? No DVD writer?
Apple......you can stick it.
Re:A True Lost Sale Mac Mini Story (Score:2)
You are paying for a small quite device. well, not YOU, but people in general.
Personally I think it is a great trade off.
Re:A True Lost Sale Mac Mini Story (Score:2)
Wait another month or two for Celeron M processors based on the Core Solo core [theinquirer.net]. That should add a nice sub-$500 option back to the Mac mini selection.
I was actually shocked that Apple used Core Solo/Duo for the Mac mini. Those processors are not meant for "low end" computers, although the price increase makes the mini "less low-e
Re:A True Lost Sale Mac Mini Story (Score:2, Informative)
Which, if you added those options to the "old" Mac Mini, would have sent the price to about $700. It's actually a better deal. Plus, if it is 2 to 4 times faster, where's the beef?
I wish every one of my relatives running Windows would switch to
Re:A True Lost Sale Mac Mini Story (Score:2)
I've seen this comment a few times now, and I'm puzzled. Didn't Apple add this to the Mini at the last refresh (when they bumped the iMac's processor speeds)? I'm pretty sure I noticed this on the specs at least a couple of months ago...
agreed with over-hype claim (Score:2)
these 2 products are more evolutionary than REVolutionary, and hardly deserves the fanfare of a separate launch party hosted by Jobs himself
maybe a true video ipod does, but these 2 products yielded a big YAWN in my mind when i saw the live blogs
Not quite as ho-hum as you make out (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you listened to any of them?
I sepnt some time in an Apple store comparing them (not even to buy, just curious) and frankly all of them soundly really weak. Yet people buy them.
If the Apple unit produces much better sound then the extra cost may well be worth it for the same people that are buying these things already (I must admit I am not quite sure who they are, though I suppose they'd be nice for a sewing
What hype? (Score:4, Insightful)
And they could have hyped this. Look, they announced the switch to Intel last year and said they'd have Intel Macs in June this year. It's March, and already they have a mid-range desktop, high-end notebook, and two low-end desktop machines out.
Re:What hype? (Score:2)
What "overhype"? (Score:2)
And secondly, what hype? I don't remember seeing ads everywhere advertising these new products. I surf tech web sites. I read news on Slashdot. I heard a rumour that Apple were going to make an announcement and was curious - but that's it. But I don't remember any hype coming from Apple.
Nonentity (Score:2)
Who?
"a dedicated TV output"? (Score:4, Insightful)
Where? I see a Firewire and a DVI port, no composite, S-Video, 75ohm coax, or component video you'd expect for the term "dedicated TV output". Indeed, from the specifications:
So Apple makes a scan converter, which could probably be used with any of their machines. It still doesn't make the DVI port a "dedicated TV output".
Re:"a dedicated TV output"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"a dedicated TV output"? (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah. There isn't even a switch for channel 3 or 4, and there's no tin box with a slide switch and double-sided tape for me to put in series with the rabbit ears on my Magnavox.
By the way, while you were out, TV sets have been going digital. There's this new broadcast standard, and newer sets, the ones that will handle digital signals, tend to ship with the DVI/HDMI connectors that accept the signal from the Mac Mini.
Re:"a dedicated TV output"? (Score:2)
I think this was intentional (Score:2)
1. Next announcement will be one heck of a blockbuster announcement. Like iPod Video, Mac Pro and totally redesigned Intel iBook in one shot.
2. They'll slash the price on the minis by a hundred bucks a couple of months down the road. Crowds of Mac fanatics will bust the doors down if it's just $100 less.
3. They'll re-price their boombox at $299.
Re:I think this was intentional (Score:2)
Don't see the $499 model with no bluetooth or wiress - Apple has that in as standard for a reason. I agree we'll see a $499 model again, I think Apple may just be mining the early adoptors a bit.
Overhyped? (Score:2)
Article's Real Contents (Score:2)
The article is mostly praise for Apple's view of the future and reminds me of a discussion I had with a freind of mine about the Apple remote when it first came out.
My take was that simplicity and easy to use will appeal to more people than shear number of buttons and number of button presses to reach a fuction. The goal of a remote control is not to "shock and awe" the consumer into being afraid
Audio lessons from Apple (Score:2)
2. What cannot be reproduced on three inch speakers is monophonic.
3. Surround sound does not exist.
Re:Jobs reality distortion field (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Jobs reality distortion field (Score:2)
The new mini kicks all kinds of ass, but the iPod Hi-Fi is a dud.
(Not that they won't sell a ton of them... I'm just saying that I'm not impressed by it.)
Re:The 6 Button Remote - I vote for Tivo (Score:2)
since you are talking about remote design, it would seem to me that it is part of this story.
Re:New revision (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:New revision (Score:2)
Re:New revision (Score:2)
The HP Pavilion s7320n Slimline Media Center PC has a GMA 900 [intel.com] in it (and either the 910 or 915 chipset) . The new Mac mini has a more capable GMA 950 [intel.com] in it and the more capable 945 chipset (not to mention a better processor).
Re:New revision (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:New revision (Score:2)
I would reserve judgemt until you see it play games for yourself.
I would say this about any device, not just because it's apple.
Re:New revision (Score:2)
Not the same chipset, GPU, or processor. The HP Pavilion s7320n [hp.com] uses the 915GM chipset (not 945GM), GMA 900 graphics (not GMA 900), and a Celeron M (not Core Solo/Duo). I know the chipset and GPU aren't that much different, but Core Solo/Duo is significantly better than a Celeron M based on the previous generation Pentium M core.
Isn't the HP s7300 supposed to be a l
New form factor too (Score:2)
It's kind of ironic though. One of Apple's selling points (Google Cache) [64.233.179.104] for the PPC Mini was that it didn't have an integrated graphics card:
Go ahead, just try to play Halo on a budget PC. Most say they're good for 2D games only. That's because an "integrated Intel gr
Re:iPod Speaker Reviews (Score:5, Informative)
As I said elsewhere, they sound a lot like the compact Bose offerings.
In other words: Fancy use of fake imaging, exaggerated bass boost with no real bottom end, and overall unsettlingly nothing like true high fidelity.
In other words, it's designed with the intention to dazzle the casual observer long enough to run their credit card through the register, not to faithfully reproduce music.
It's NOT a "Boombox" (Score:2)
This is meant to be a simple and elegant home audio device. If you want some grotty lo-fi portable with radio and CD player and "UberGigaBass!" (read: cheap, dsitortive filters) where the sum is far less than the parts, look elsewhere.