MSN Messenger Access To Be Restricted 576
linuxwrangler writes "According to Infoworld, Microsoft has announced that as of October 15 some third-party software and older versions of MSN Messenger will no longer be able to log in to their Instant Messaging service. Microsoft cited 'security issues', but declined to offer specifics. The company sent an email alert to Messenger users, but users reported thinking the message was a hoax or virus after receiving over a dozen copies of the email."
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Informative)
EULA snippet:
Replacement, Modification or Upgrade of the Software
Microsoft reserves the right to replace, modify or upgrade the SOFTWARE at any time by offering you a replacement or modified version of the SOFTWARE or such upgrade and to charge for such replacement, modification or upgrade.
In the event that Microsoft offers a replacement or modified version of or any upgr
I didn't get a message (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I didn't get a message (Score:5, Funny)
Not even Microsoft wants to email me.
Sign up for Microsoft's security bulletins and your inbox will never be empty. Hell I got three today.
Re:I didn't get a message (Score:5, Insightful)
MS02-040 REVISED: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-040: Unchecked Buffer in MDAC Function Could Enable System (Q326573)
MS03-030 REVISED: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-030: Unchecked Buffer in DirectX Could Enable System Compromise (Q819696)
MS03-029 REVISED: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-029: Flaw in Windows Function Could Allow Denial of Service (Q823803)
And people wonder why I won't install a MS Patch on a production system without thorough testing.
They have a proven (and documented) track record of breaking things, both intentionally (DR-DOS) and unintentionally. They have been convicted of anticompetetive practices.
And they expect me to believe that this move is for 'Security'? Sounds to me more like the security of their wallets.
jabber? (Score:5, Interesting)
I really really want to keep useing jabber for my IM stuff (its not like I have a whole heck of a lot of choice , but running msn in wine is not my idea of a fun time).
Re:jabber? (Score:5, Informative)
-dr
Re: more info on msn 8 protocol (Score:4, Informative)
From the site's main page: "This website is intended to be an unofficial guide to the MSN Messenger protocol. It is written primarily for programmers that want to utilize the MSN Messenger protocol in software."
It WILL be reverse engineered (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It WILL be reverse engineered (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It WILL be reverse engineered (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It WILL be reverse engineered (Score:4, Funny)
*Looks over at Gentoo running on the XBox*
Yeah, I'd give it a few days.
Re:Not necessarily (Score:3, Insightful)
You know that they could use a GPL'ed encryption scheme, and still it would not be crackable unless MS gave^B^B^B^B sold you a valid secret key. I'm betting they just make the price of a valid key for your IM program a) secret (to find it out, you have to promise not to tell) and b) horrifically high.
security, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
The "security issue" is, of course, the "leak" of vital advertisement money they would be getting (:
Re:security, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:security, eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:security, eh? (Score:3, Insightful)
The ICQ network allows anyone to add anyone else to his or her contact list without notification or authorization. The client simply sends the contact list to the server upon connection. If the server is to support older clients, it must allow for clients to be able to add users without confirmation, because the older clients don't do anything to confirm the user allowed them to add him or her.
As the old PRO
What happend to being open and cooperative? (Score:5, Interesting)
Good way to cut off *nix users too..
And yes i realize its their software, their network but i thought at one point they said it would remain open...
Re:What happend to being open and cooperative? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What happend to being open and cooperative? (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, it will remain open I think. For anyone willing to cough up an appropriate license fee and willing to sign a pretty little NDA, which basically states your first born will belong to Microsoft.
Re:What happend to being open and cooperative? (Score:5, Interesting)
They have a poor track record on this. Take, as a recent example, their forced opening of protocols vital to Windows from the anti-trust case. Where was that link? Aaah:
This IM thing is a new development. There probably aren't any sources to cite yet, since this is new. However, their past behavior is indicative of future misbehavior, especially in this (interoperability) regard. Doubly so since, in the above quote, Microsoft was forced by the U.S. Department of Justice to reveal the protocols, whereas they are not required to reveal their past, present, or future IM protocols. If they're not licensing protocols under the duress of the U.S. Government, how much less are they going to interoperate voluntarily?
Microsoft simply isn't the benevolent dictator we wish it were.
Re:What happend to being open and cooperative? (Score:3, Interesting)
Did you mean to say that Microsoft is not licensing their protocols because the U.S. Government is under "Coercion illegally applied" or "Forcible confinement?" Microsoft certainly is guilty of coercing users and could be broadly guilty of forcibly confining those same users within a single set of choices (via its monopoly), but neither case seems to provide any impetus f
Use AIM/ICQ/YIM instead? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Use AIM/ICQ/YIM instead? (Score:2)
Re:Use AIM/ICQ/YIM instead? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Use AIM/ICQ/YIM instead? (Score:5, Insightful)
If a network is split in two, the value of each network is (.5)^2, or a quarter of the value were the network to be united.
Even though there are now two separate networks, the total value is half what it would otherwise be.
yeah right... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:yeah right... (AIM/MSN role reversal) (Score:5, Informative)
Remember back in 1999? It was MSN who was complaining that AOL wouldn't play nicely with them [com.com]. Now MS throws their IM-bot in with windows, and makes it frustrating to remove if installing Outlook, and then closes the door.
But don't think AOL is now held irresponsible in this battle. A few months ago, AOL asked the FCC if it could break the rules [com.com]. It seems yesterday, AOL announced it would go ahead and break the rules [ecommercetimes.com].
It sounds like there needs to be a group "time-out". Everybody goes to their corner and sits for 5 minutes.
Formal agreements (Score:5, Insightful)
Requiring formal agreements could be a sly way to keep open source software out. How would an open source project go about making such an agreement?
Re:Formal agreements (Score:2)
Ever since the Phonecians invented money, there has only been one answer to questions such as those... how much are you willing to pay for open source access to MSN messenger?
Not about open-source, about profit (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not a "sly way to keep open source software out"*, it's a not-so-sly way to counter OTHER people getting ad revenue/sales off YOUR network service, among other things.
MSN messenger only really makes money off:
(last two being market-share 'enhancers')...which is pretty much why AOL offers AIM independently too. When a client like Trillian is a)letting people use your service without showing you ads and b)letting users talk to anyone on any network...well, now, you've just shot 2 out of 3 reasons for MSN messenger's free-ness, haven't you?
Not to mention, someone at MSN's sales deparment finally realized "Hmm,, people are making money SELLING a client for our network! Hey! I bet WE can get a piece of that money!" They probably approached Trillian, Trillian probably told them to go screw, and MSN said "hah, watch us pull the plug". So, basically, Trillian etc will be forced to sign an agreement forking over xx% of their [gross/net/whatever] sales, the business world will perhaps do a little more than yawn, and the sun will rise tomorrow...meanwhile, Instant Messaging Planet will generate a dozen news stories and at least one conference over the whole thing ;-)
* let's drop the persecution complex, for crissakes- companies do things for one reason, and one reason only- to MAKE MONEY, not join The Man in fucking open source over.
Wasn't it MS who was fighting to make AOL open up? (Score:5, Informative)
Here's one of the many stories on it:
http://net4tv.com/voice/Story.cfm?storyID=1693 [net4tv.com]
Re:Wasn't it MS who was fighting to make AOL open (Score:5, Insightful)
[1] Attempt to crack market with new software
[2] Bundle software with OS - make pain in ass to remove
[3] wait for large user base to build
[4] close off to other vendors (you are here)
[5] wait for competition to die off
[6?] China decides to make it's own impementation =P
Re:Wasn't it MS who was fighting to make AOL open (Score:3, Interesting)
Are we definately sure about this? (Score:5, Funny)
Third parties not totally cut off...yet (Score:5, Informative)
"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after Oct. 15," Sundwall said. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
So....then I guess third parties will likely not be able to use the service but apparently MS is fine with them contacting them to work things out. Doesn't seem so bad. Unless of course MS starts charging exorbatant fees for third-party users of the protocol. Which would be pretty insane. For now, benefit of the doubt is what I'll give. Partly b/c I'm crazy
Re:Third parties not totally cut off...yet (Score:5, Insightful)
MS is stifling interoperability. Just like they have in the past, and just like they will do in the forseeable future.
Re:Third parties not totally cut off...yet (Score:3, Insightful)
1. All software is property of owner, but cannot be open sourced and must be distributed under a standard MS license.
2. MS has a need to collect personal informations. All clients of MSN Messenger must supply any requested information.
3. MS has the right to cut off access at any time or demand an upgrade.
4. All clients must support ads t
Re:Third parties not totally cut off...yet (Score:5, Funny)
Do you think they would settle for my second born child? My first born is very well behaved. I would miss her terribly. My second born is a monster. I am pretty sure that Microsoft would be begging to give him back after a month or two.
He is my first born *son*, if that makes a different.
And the Anti-Microsoft folks will roar in response (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh yeah... GAIM... my favorite (Score:2)
Re:Oh yeah... GAIM... my favorite (Score:2)
It doesn't matter (Score:2, Funny)
Security is a bogus reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I guess it would reduce Microsoft's exposure since everyone using the network would have agreed to a Draconian EULA that stripped them of all their rights.
Be assured, this is not about security, it is about control.
Re:Security is a bogus reason (Score:5, Interesting)
It looks to me that that may be what Microsoft is doing. They are not just disabling 3rd party software. They are disabling access with some old versions of their own software. If they start dissallowing access by software even when there are no known vulnerabilities in the software, that is when we should get mad.
Your comment made the assumption that this is for Microsoft's security. I believe that it is for user's security. Microsoft is not providing a worthwhile service to the user if their "service" is a public backdoor into the user's computer. Microsoft knows this and they are doing the right thing. They have evidence of ways to crack certain softaware that connects to their servers. They have the ability to close the door on the vulnerability and they are doing so.
As soon as Trillian fixes their bugs and opens a dialog with Microsoft assuring microsoft that the flaws have been fixed, Microsoft will open the service back up.
But then again, I'm probably not paranoid enough for slashdot today. ;-)
MS was just waiting for a precedent? (Score:2, Interesting)
decentralized instant messenger service (Score:2, Interesting)
The IM community is so partitioned now, that most users have to run 2-4 different clients in order to talk to all of their friends. What about a service that is open, cant be bought out, and will last for a long time?
Has anyone run into a decentralized IM service?
jabber` (Score:5, Informative)
2. Anyone with a domain can use it, even on a lan that isn't connected to the internet. I am sheenmaster@frob.us
3. It has "transports" to access the other IM services.
4. It has clients for literally everything, and is easy to program for.
get it [jabber.org]
Security, eh? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, and look how well that suited AOL. (Score:5, Interesting)
So what did the engineers at Trillian and GAIM do? They reverse-engineered the OSCAR protocol [sourceforge.net] and Trillian and GAIM can now use the AIM network again.
If Microsoft locks down their network, I give it all of 3 days before Trillian and others can access it again. AOL tried and was unsuccessful. I doubt Microsoft will be able to stop this for long considering the negative publicity (and Trillian patch) that would result.
Trillian Pro 2.0 already supports MSN 6. (Score:5, Informative)
It's already in beta testing, and should be out before the deadline.
Re:Trillian Pro 2.0 already supports MSN 6. (Score:3, Informative)
Everyone's reaction to this is overkill -- all they're doing is dropping support for an old protocol... But then again, people around here seem to think that something should be supported for the duration of copyright, so
Defeating the whole purpose... (Score:3, Funny)
Thanks Microsoft, for breaking the IM unity that Trillian was successful at providing. Is it just me, or does this paint M$ as a sore loser?
Whew! Thank God they're on the ball! (Score:5, Funny)
~Philly
Tracking? (Score:5, Interesting)
Do we read this as: The upgrade is required because "we can't track the behavior [slashdot.org] of our Messenger users " with the older versions of the Messenger clients and third party clients, he said, declining to specify those issues.?
A similar action by talkcity.com about 4 years ago killed the activity in its chat rooms, wonder if Microsoft will let that happen or use strong arm techniques to keep the users!
MSN 6.x (Score:3, Interesting)
I also develop plugins for Msn plus, and like the fact that msn 4.x is nice, small and fast to start up when debugging.
I want a fast, small, simple IM app. Not a freaking huge application that takes up half of the screen , gaming centre, washes my dishes, takes care of the kids, walks the dog. I cannot stand that program, I tried it twice but no! I hate it. This really sucks.
Hopefully it will be rev eng soon. dmca? ARGH@#$
DMCA and USA PATRIOT (Score:5, Interesting)
After circumventing the access control layer one of two things will take place:
Micro$oft will claim some sort of copyright on some of the data stored on their servers. This is not have to be the messages. It could be the compliation of the directory information of the user. By circumventing their access control you have gained access to a protected copyrighted work. DING DING DING DMCA VIOLATION DING DING DING
Since all communications must go through Micro$oft's (or their duly delegated agent's) servers, by circumventing the access control layer you have gained unauthorized access to a protected computer system. DING DING DING USA PATRIOT VIOLATION DING DING DING
Of course we all know why Micro$oft is really doing this:
Lock in - Keep users in your system and don't let them talk to other systems either by your own client or by some third party client.
Security through legality - This is one more piece of legal wrangling they can use to avoid any realy responsibility about any security concerns. Any security breach would require an exploit that the MSN client is not programmed to do. Thus any exploit would require writing a different client or modifing the MSN client. Either way this is an unauthorized client and the DMCA and the USA PATRIOT Act can be used.
Same too ya - Uhhh, AOL is doing it to MSN so MSN is doing it to AOL.
Gee, I guess I'll just use that analog, electro-mechanical, voice messaging system that the FCC won't let the baby bells completely destroy.
Pioneer days... (Score:5, Interesting)
It made Trillian that much more exciting to use, all the more so because I loathed (and continue to loathe) AOL so much. Of course, I always had ICQ to fall back on. Then AOL bought them and drove them into the ground.
What we need is an open source, secure protocol for chatting, newly implemented for today's uses. I'm getting tired of chatting over AIM, just because it has something to do with AOL. Yahoo I don't like either, nor MSN, or ICQ for above mentioned reasons. And other chat programs with half-standards aren't at all what we need at all. There are more than enough able geeks out there, some solution shouldn't be too difficult to organize a consortium to address the situation. Mayhap I smell an Ask Slashdot in the future.
Re:Pioneer days... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's been a while since I used it and didn't like it, but let's see if I can recall.
XML's fine and all, and indeed, it is open. That is good, and that leaves it flexible. If I recall, however, I didn't really get along with the transport system. I'd much rather not have to rely on a remote computer for communicating through other mediums.
That's still not really the problem I have with it, however, b
Re:Pioneer days... (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't have to rely on remote servers... Jabber is decentralized. To make this happen, run a Jabber server on both the target and destination machines. Voila, only two computers involved in the IM transaction.
If that's not good enough and you're thinking even more decentralized, then you're getting really radical and you're going to find other nice properties of an IM system will suffer; in particular all schemes for even further decentralization will cost you full seconds (or even tens of seconds) for routing, and I think you'd find that largely unacceptable if you actually had it working in front of you right now.
You'll need to run a server on either machine anyhow if you're going to have a "decentralized" system, it's oxymoronic to try to create a "server-free" system, so it might as well be Jabber. (Remember "server" here just means "recieving TCP/IP packets".)
Of course, by running your own server, assuming it's on a machine that isn't always on, you sacrifice the benefits of running the server on an always-on system, like message queueing while you're offline... but if you're like me and don't consider IMs to be critical, that's fine.
2. I want it to be encrypted (by default and as part of the protocol, so my non-techie friends don't have to touch it to be done properly..
Valid criticism, though this is a client problem, not a server or protocol problem.
3. Easily integrated other types of data through use of a paralell decentralized stream (sounds contradictory, doesn't it?). I want to be able to easily put files across to the other user, streamed if I'd like to, for webcam use. Something of an IRC blend in that latter aspect of it.
This is covered in the Jabber protocol, via the OOB specification. I believe some of the clients implement this. Some of what you are saying is sorta contradictory sounding; Jabber is as decentralized as you can reasonably get already.
4. Obviously open source. Not even a question. I want people tinkering with this constantly, making it better and harder to interfere with.
The Jabber server is listed as GPL v. 2 by my Gentoo portage system. It doesn't get much more open source then that. The existance of a commercial branch is a net gain; it makes it that much more likely it will continue to be around.
It would be popular and desireable enough that I wouldn't have any friends on the other mediums to bother with.
Of course there's not a damn thing any IM program can do about that; not even Microsoft can create users by executive fiat.
but a bit quicker due to the message protocol itself, which is vague in my head, but starting to form.
I don't think you dislike Jabber... I think you tried one or two, probably half-baked, clients and disliked those. Sounds to me like Jabber is 90% of the way to what you want, except for the "number of people using" it issue which really can't be held against the IM system itself. Please don't try to create a competing protocol; you'd be much better off spending your time polishing up one of the more-mature Jabber clients to add the last couple of features you want, not creating an IM system from scratch.
(My other desire is better compression of the stream; apparently SSL gives you this in addition to security, so I guess that kills two birds with one stone if you get more people to use that automatically.)
Just affecting MSN protocols 8.0 (Score:5, Informative)
BTW, I use Miranda [sourceforge.net] and think it's a great Open Source alternative to Trillian. Check it out.
Can't believe slashdotters didn't pick this up yet (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft's IM letter means you agree to pay and upgrade
END USERS OF Microsoft's Instant Messenger software that got multiple copies of a mail advising them to upgrade yesterday need to read the fine print of the firm's terms and conditions most carefully.
The end user licence agreement (EULA) for the new version of Instant Messenger has some clauses that suggest changes are afoot in the way Microsoft deals with this popular little software item.
By clicking on the new agreement, users promise to pay for future upgrades and to acquire future chargeable upgrades whether they're wanted or unwanted.
Read on... [theinquirer.net]
What does this mean? It could mean that Microsoft may charge fees whenever it wants, and that you also have to stop using the software if the firm decides.
Always read the fine print. If Microsoft addes this particular clause to operating systems, everyone might be forced to utter "Hail Palladium" when the push came to shove.
It's only a matter of time..but... (Score:4, Interesting)
The less they have to worry about catering to others, or time spent on monitoring 'others' on their products or network is time they can spend in their deployment of the one product end user goal. We've seen a glimmer of that mindset when last week they announced that the reason for BSOD's was outside programing etc.... LI}But eventually changes like this that ostracize entire portions of computer users will eventually lead to the better development by those who subscribe to deviant technologies. So in the end this move could start off the stages needed as a catalyst for better development and increases onward and upward.
..So naturally (Score:4, Informative)
Come on, MS. You can do better this blatant attempt to isolate your market under the guise of a security issue, especially when there are so many more important ones that have been left lying around for so long now...
So, now MS will make me Schizophrenic .... (Score:4, Funny)
I have for the past few months being trying to consolidate my personality into a few well defined slivers ...
- handling different email identities with a single email package has helped a lot, and the fact that I can receive messages from different boxes, and send messages from different boxes - all from a single application is godsent
... MS has a product called Outlook which dominates the market ..
- I also am warming up to password management programs so that I have fewer passwords to forget
... MS came up with something that was supposed to help me - PASSPORT
- I am trying to consolidate my "buddy" personalities into a manageable interface, and Trillian helps me. Now, wouldn't it be nice if MS came up with a product like they have done for earlier needs. But, no sir, they got nothing in this category. So, what do they do. They try to destroy the entire category.
I think this is unfair. I think this is injust. I think this is immoral.And I think it is worse.
Instead of helping me manage my different identities, MS is actually doing the opposite. MS is driving me to multiple personalities. MS is driving me to schizophrenia. This, I think is just, so, wrong.
Amazing (Score:4, Insightful)
The only thing, and I mean the ONLY THING this is about is preventing the sort of widespread IM Spam garbage that permeates other IM networks. Messenger has always been top notch at this in the past, but if they don't lock down the service to known, registered client programs, it's just a matter of time until someone creates a high volume IM spambot (if they haven't already).
MS Product lifecycle stage 6 (Score:3, Interesting)
Hands up who is surprised. It's standard business practice for MS.
Hands up who is surprised. It's standard business practice for MS.
Gates calls on FCC to examine AIM [com.com] (ZDnet)18 Dec 2000 - Microsoft chairman Bill Gates telephoned the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission last week to urge a close examination of America Online's dominance in instant messaging, a Microsoft representative confirmed.
Leading Technology and Instant Messaging Companies Form IMUnified [microsoft.com] (The Devil Himself) - One of the things that makes this coalition so exciting is the opportunity to work together and learn from each other so that we can create a system that is even more private and more secure than what is available today, said Yusuf Mehdi, vice president of MSN at Microsoft Corp.
AT this stage, I think we are only at stage 6 of the product lifecycle. Although the IETF announced Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) almost a year ago, IBM and Microsoft have promoted a separate standard known as SIMPLE (SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions). As IM becomes more important in the corporate sector the issue really starts to revolve around this proposed standard and the conditions under which it will be available or licenced.
You bunch of dorks. (Score:3, Interesting)
Last year, my friend went through the MSN messenger API and found all sorts of goodies. Within a few minutes, he was sending messages as if they were from other people. He played jokes on us for a little while, striking up weird conversations out of the blue.
Think before you open your mouth.
Why is this such a big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Gaim MSN status information (Score:5, Informative)
Just a Marketing Ploy or backlash from FCC Ruling (Score:3, Interesting)
"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after Oct. 15," Sundwall said. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
Let me rephrase a bit of that.
"We would encourage those thrid parties to contact us to work out payments by which they can drive away your customers"
I've also heard a rumor that a new version of MSN messenger yet unnannounced will include the ability to work in a similar manner of Trillian which allows you to consolidate all popular IM Programs into one program. I have no way to verify this "Rumor" but it's really hard to say MS wouldnt do it.
Has anyone else heard otherwise?
HA HA! (Best Nelson voice) (Score:4, Interesting)
As Clausewitz said, "fixed fortifications are a monumnet to the stupidity of man."
Microsoft is just building a moat around their customers to protect their revenue stream. That never works.
Actually MS might help others out (Score:3, Informative)
A long while back, Trillian got an impromptu upgrage because MS was changing the network and was letting Cerulean Studios in on it. They say unauthorized third-party clients, meaning there exist some that ARE authorized, or at least less of a security threat.
Heck, Trillian has blowfish encryption on SecurIM!
Yahoo Messenger for Linux, BSD, ... (Score:3, Interesting)
from the faq (Score:3, Interesting)
Where
It is unlikely that we would ever build a Caldera/SCO version, however.
hehe funny
They said it was a virus themselves (Score:4, Interesting)
They told me on the phone it was a virus email.
Movva-Lai Draft (Score:3, Interesting)
How long till MSN Subscription is needed then? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Gaim? (Score:3, Informative)
No more Messenger for me while playing around with X, but then again, I prefer AIM anyways.
Re:Gaim? (Score:4, Interesting)
The question you should ask yourself is why MS is going this very public about "closing" their protocol.
Re:Gaim? (Score:5, Funny)
Is Gaim a MS sponsered MSN Messenger?
Nope.
We are out in the cold.
Re:Gaim? (Score:3, Interesting)
So, there's still some hope. The code to GAIM is freely availeable for Microsoft to audit, so theres at least a small chance they will certify it as not being a "security risk".
Re:Gaim? (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, you're going to cover the licensing fees for GAIM? Cool! Thanks! Hey guys, didja hear that? Gherald is covering the MS license fees for GAIM to keep working with Messenger . . .
Re:Gaim? (Score:3, Insightful)
No offense, but are you smoking crack?
MS will never, ever endorse gaim. You see, Microsoft is something of a Monopoly, and they have demonstrated many times over that if they are given a choice, they will always try to tie things into their own OS and screw over the users of other OS's.
What I'm getting at here is that gaim is a product that allows you to use
Re:Gaim? (Score:3)
Lol, speaking of multiple sclerosis, there's a great billboard in the subway tunnels in my city. It says something like "Every penny counts in the fight to stop MS." I know they obviously mean multiple sclerosis, but it's kinda funny to think that there's an organization taking donations whose sole purpose is to destroy Microsoft.
Anyway, it's possible for acronyms to have multiple expansions. Take ATM, for example: Adobe Type Manager, Automatic Teller Machine, and I
Re:Gaim? (Score:3, Insightful)
If Linux users want to do all the work of support MSN for them, I don't see MS having anything to lose right now. If MS was in AOL's position, then I could see them shutting out the Linux people making sense. But if someone is willing to help you fight a war that you're losing, why fight them?
Re:Gaim? (Score:3, Insightful)
Aside from the fact that you could be leaking propriatary information to the world (via microsoft product, who's have thunk?), it's NOT designed for that.
If you're concerned about asking people to change their client, they should probably change their client anyway. Microsoft logs everything on their consumer networks, and they make no promises to keep your information confidential.
Read their TOS
Re:Gaim? (Score:2, Funny)
I know that most slashdotters don't RTFA, but this is bordering on the ridiculous! It's one thing not to read the artcile before replying, quite another not to read the blurb. :P
Oh shit, it's the end of the world (Score:5, Funny)
"We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
Sundwall would not comment on what type of agreement Microsoft would want with third-party IM software providers. "We are very interested in interoperating with all third parties, there just needs to be a formal agreement," he said.
Yep. Sounds like M$ is really out to crush the competition and strike a blow to open source. Yep, they're being completely unreasonable here. Light the torches boys, we've got a rabbelous mob to form!
Re:Gaim? (Score:4, Informative)
I am hopeful that the developers of Gaim will be able to implement the latest MSN protocol by the Oct. 15th deadline. If not, well, my Gaim is also running Yahoo Messenger, ICQ, and AOL... any of which are fine with me. I'll have to get my parents to switch to ICQ but that shouldn't be a problem.
Re:uh huh... (Score:5, Interesting)
Now they'll pretend that never happened and act like people trying to circumvent their protections are some kind of criminals.
Re:uh huh... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:uh huh... (Score:3, Interesting)
1. talk on a zillion dif't protocols without all the resuource hogging of running them. With a bunch of great skins to switch around when I get bored.
(the rest are with plug ins.)
2. Let's me know when I get email on the exchange server so I don't have to keep Outlook running all the time.
3. Let's me know the current
Only on slashdot... (Score:5, Insightful)
... do you see something like this:
uh huh... ... bullshit!!
(Score: 2, Insightful)
What is it about microsoft articles that cause the average IQ to plummet around here?
Re:Only on slashdot... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Only on slashdot... (Score:3, Funny)
Repair Windows machines all day long for a living and you too will begin to hate windows (and its users) very quickly....
OTOH, I suppose I should like Windows... I mean as long as MS makes an OS I'll always have a job ;) LOL
Re:uh huh... (Score:3, Informative)
Unfortunately MSN Messenger has no such third parties (to bring this back on topic) that I know of.
Re:Jeez.... (Score:5, Interesting)
But I bet they're losing users to third-party clients in far greater numbers in the windows platform than anywhere else.
Linux users are already willing to go through some inconvenience to NOT use their OS OR their Office suite, areas over which they had a much tighter control in the market over the years. It's not like they hope to "bring them back" through Messenger.
I'm using Trillian right now on a Windows machine. Why? Not because I can't use Messenger, not because I have ethical issues about using Messenger, but because Messenger and its network (like RealPlayer) is a product that has gone from decent to inferior to catastrophic with each "upgrade".
Perhaps if the network did not kick me out sporadically, if their client didn't take that long to sign me in, or took up over twice the memory size of Trillian, or if I didn't constantly get spam through it, or if it didn't have authentication problems with my hotmail account (which Trillian doesn't have)...
Well, you get the idea. Perhaps if their client didn't suck that much I wouldn't mind using it.
I mean, I love having all my IM ids in the same client, and probably wouldn't want to live without it by now. But it's like tabbed browsing in Mozilla... it's a feature that solves a problem many people don't know they have.
What made me try Trillian was not my admittedly crowed taskbar, it was one too many popups from Messenger advertising porn.
If their products were merely competent, they wouldn't even have to match the 3rd party products feature by feature. Not until a mainstream IM client (IM or Yahoo) forces them to by including those features itself.
MSN messenger = bloatware (Score:3, Interesting)