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Mandriva Businesses

Mandrake Linux... Not Dead Yet? 499

bloodeu writes "Mandrake Linux has been beaten down by linux experts alike, but this new release of Mandrake may hold many promising Linux users what they have been waiting for, like NTFS resizing(which is a first), Automatic Network config(zeroconf), Supermount, and many more. You can download the Mandrake 9.1 RC1 Here"
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Mandrake Linux... Not Dead Yet?

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  • by bryanp ( 160522 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @11:59AM (#5364753)
    The obligatory Monty Python reference. I'll go sit quietly now.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      "promising Linux users what they have been waiting for, like NTFS resizing(which is a first), Automatic Network config(zeroconf), Supermount,"

      How much does it really matter that they have all this? They don't make any money, thats their problem!
      • Re:I'm not dead yet! (Score:5, Informative)

        by packeteer ( 566398 ) <packeteer&subdimension,com> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @06:21PM (#5366681)
        Ok first of all it does matter a lot that they have these improvments and its NOT true that they aren't making money. They do have sources of income which for certain areas actually create a profit. The overall Mandrakesoft situation is different. Mostly because of their failed investments such as their Mandrake Online Learning plan. Once they go through bankruptcy and rescructure their spending they will be able to turn a real profit.

        I dont understand why people are saying they are going away. The only place i hear about "Mandrake Linux is dying!" would be slashdot. I am surpirsed i dont see trolls more often screaming that since there are some good FUD opportunities here. If you read almost anywhere else about Mandrake all you see is people talking about the upcoming version which looks very good so far.

        To address your first point last i will say that most definetly what they release matters. Even without an increase in income they can probably turn a profit so by releasing a better product they can get even more profit. You know... that's what business's do. If Mandrake can put in many more firsts for linux yet continues to improve their ease of use and auto-configuration, which they did in this release, then more people will join the mandrake club.

        Also as a side note the Mandrake club is a great idea and i think if you download this and you like it you should join. Some people say that setting up a business on a subscription based model will scare off investors and you should buy the CD's instead. That is oh so very wrong. If MandrakeSoft can pull it's self out of debt and show everyone that their business model works i think we could potentially have many more sucessful open source companies make it.
  • by Twister002 ( 537605 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:00PM (#5364758) Homepage
    So we can all go download it and not pay them a cent.

    uhhhhmmmmmm

  • NTFS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NickisGod.com ( 453769 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:02PM (#5364770)
    Um, okay. Maybe I've been out of the loop when it comes to Linux/NTFS compatibility. I thought we were still kinda' afraid to write to NTFS partitions. Now we can resize them.

    Can someone please elaborate?
    • Re:NTFS (Score:5, Informative)

      by y2dt ( 184562 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:17PM (#5364841)
      Mandrake is using ntfsresize [rulez.org] which is part of the Linux-NTFS [sourceforge.net] project.

      This is the project that contributed the NTFS driver to the Linux kernel
      • Re:NTFS (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Selanit ( 192811 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @02:44PM (#5365540)
        Another thing worth pointing out about NTFS is that Mandrake is not the first Linux distribution with NTFS resizing support. Xandros had it when they announced their first official release a few months ago. I suspect that they used the same code as Mandrake, though I don't know. Xandros's PR pages claim that they were the first with that capability.

        I have no idea who to believe, and frankly I don't care who got their first; I'm just glad it's implemented. Now, if we could just get decent NTFS write support, we'd be in much better shape. Being able to read/write your Windows partition from Linux makes dual-booting much more tolerable. On at least one occasion, being able to write a FAT32 partition from Linux has saved my butt. (Windows was refusing to boot because some vital configuration files had gotten corrupted; I couldn't boot from floppy 'cause my disk drive was dead, but I was able to replace them from Linux -- disaster averted!)

        Not being able to do similar things with NTFS partitions is a significant drawback which may be discouraging some people from trying Linux out on their shiny new 2K/XP machine. I hope it gets worked out in the not-too-distant future.
        • Re:NTFS (Score:3, Insightful)

          by DickBreath ( 207180 )
          I have no idea who to believe, and frankly I don't care who got their first

          FYI... off topic...

          In about 1982, PC World magazine says, on the front cover, that MS-DOS 2.0 is the first operating system with a hierarchical file system.

          The first in a long list of Microsoft innovations.
    • Re:NTFS (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Remember, kids: Nothing makes a better first impression than corrupting a user's existing NTFS partition during installation.
    • Re:NTFS (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:30PM (#5364912)
      Resizing NTFS isn't as difficult as writing to it. The resizer only has to alter a few pieces of metadata. This is relatively safe.

      Note that the resizer cannot defrag, yet, so it can only shrink NTFS partitions by the amount of free space you have.

      Mandrake are using a 2.4 kernel patched with the new NTFS driver. This driver has limited *safe* write support. It can overwrite existing files (using write or mmap). This is enough to read-write loopback mount an NTFS file as a filesystem and use it as your root filesystem.

      FlatCap (Rich)
      ntfs at flatcap dot org

      Linux NTFS Project [sourceforge.net]
  • Mandrake rocks. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Big Mark ( 575945 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:03PM (#5364773)
    Yes, so it's the really simple distro for thickies and n00bs. It's also by far and away the easiest Linux distro to set up and use that I've tried (and I'm from the days of Yggdrasil, me) so it's my distro of choice - it has (or is easily made to have) all the power of "proper" distros but isn't as condescending as Lycoris and friends.

    Mandrake should be kept alive, it would be a loss to the Linux world if it were to die.

    -Mark
    • Easiest to install (Score:2, Informative)

      by Yonder Way ( 603108 )
      The distro has been dead for years, but I have yet to see a distro that is as easy to install as Corel Linux. IIRC, it prompted me maybe twice to make decisions about things, and had sensible defaults for the average user. If they had more fully exploited DHCP/DNS I think they could have gotten rid of one of those prompts (asking for a hostname).

      Corel was, for all intents and purposes, a Debian for the average joe. I have yet to see any other distros approach the friendliness of it.
      • by Ed Avis ( 5917 ) <ed@membled.com> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @01:09PM (#5365078) Homepage
        I have yet to see a distro that is as easy to install as Corel Linux.

        Maybe this is cheating, but could I suggest Knoppix [knoppix.net]? It really _is_ 'Debian for the average Joe', probably more so than Corel, since it requires no installation at all.

        (On a slightly related note - can anyone recommend a tiny Linux distribution that runs off floppies? I am hoping to run an X server, icewm, PPP and ssh.)

    • I predate ANY distro, back when the kernel wouldn't even properly compile..

      And I've still found Caldera's to be the easiest for the newbie to install, if it supports your hardware..

      Though, with the incarnation of 'unitedlinux' and their recent SCO attitudes, I've stopped recommending them to clients as they cant be trusted..

      ( Disclaimer, I moved to FBSD for 'server land' a while ago, due to the progressively fragmenting Linux desktop community.. )
      • Disclaimer, I moved to FBSD for 'server land' a while ago, due to the progressively fragmenting Linux desktop community..

        Wait a sec. You changed what you used as a server based on the fragmenting desktop? I don't get that. Why change servers if the desktop situation is wierd?
        • by nurb432 ( 527695 )
          Was just clarifying that im not as much into the linux community, so that my statement was based on older info.. that things could have changed somewhat..

          Due to the fragmentation in the linux community i changed to FBSD for servers, yes. Cant have a community like that when it comes to the back room.

          I have stayed on linux for desktop, but at this rate that may change too..
      • That's like saying "This is the best, most solid car there is, as long as you don't kick the tires". Because once Caldera (I refer to 2.2 here; I sure as hell wasn't going to pay for their bugfix 2.3 release) was installed, if you wanted to reconfigure something, you were pretty screwed.

        It shipped with an incompatible version of RPM, and had no development libraries, so upgrading something (like its glitchy version of X) involved compiling it from scratch, including its huge tree of dependencies. Changing other settings was done through the "Caldera Open Administration System", a linuxconf workalike except for the fact that it didn't work. It would often exit quietly without successfully changing any settings.

        When talking about the "ease of installation" of a distro, it's not just the original installation that matters. It should be easy to keep installing packages, and to upgrade the system without buying a new boxed release.

        It's amazing I kept using Linux after Caldera. They were a crappy distro even before they were a crappy business.
    • Re:Mandrake rocks. (Score:5, Informative)

      by Hatter ( 3985 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:33PM (#5364931)
      I find it funny that so many people overlook urpmi. It's apt-get for rpms. It can retrieve packages from cdrom, or the internet and handles dependencies automatically.
      • Re:Mandrake rocks. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by JSCarr ( 312656 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @01:16PM (#5365112) Homepage
        I just installed urpmi for the first time last night, after ten minutes of snarling at the RedHat 8.0 package manager (which, frankly, needs a LOT of work). Apt-get for rpms is brilliant, in my noobish opinion.

        It's not funny though that it's overlooked - it's sad that it's not publicized more heavily. I wish I'd have known about it sooner. It would have saved me lots of frustration over the last six months.
  • Anyone got a link to a screenshot showing Mandrake's "Galaxy" Gnome theme that made it in this release. Just curious what it looks like.
    • I too am looking for screen shots of this theme. Will someone please post.

    • by buchanmilne ( 258619 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @02:24PM (#5365443) Homepage
      Here (195kB PNG) [dnsalias.com] is a screenshot of Mandrake 9.1rc1 running Gnome with the Galaxy theme. I hae done almost no changes to Gnome (I don't usually use it), so this is pretty much how it looks currently out-the-box after changing to the Galaxy theme (which I assume will be enabled by default on rc2). The window decorations for KDE went in only a few days ago, wait till I update some stuff from cooker for a KDE screenshot.

      My USB flash disk was detected automatically, just had to right-click on the desktop and check "removable" (in KDE an icon appears which you can just double-click). ACPI works (though I am not sure how much functionality my Thinkpad 600X supports). Note the ACPI is not enabled by default (acpi=off is in the default append for the bootloader) due to problems with desktops. Zeroconf works (ie over a crossover to a windows box I get a "auto-configuration"-compatible IP address and can resolve my own hostname via "dns"), but the gui tools need a bit more work (config only works during install currently), but my NIC does not support ifplugd, so I do not get automatic interface management.

      I did make some changes to the fonts in Mozilla, which may have affected how Galeon displays.

      We just hope that freetype-2.1.4 will be out in time to make it, since the maintainer will not agree to shipping CVS versions (which Redhat seems happy with, even with glibc to the point of breaking things like winbind - for those of you who think Mandrake is not stable).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:04PM (#5364783)
    Trying to out live apple [slashdot.org]
  • by swtaarrs ( 640506 ) <swtaarrs@comcast. n e t> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:05PM (#5364785)
    I tried it (9.0) for a few weeks and the only thing I didn't like was that wine wasn't installed/configured like in RedHat (7.3). Is this another case of some linux people hating a distro because it's too easy to use?
    • by Pike65 ( 454932 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:58PM (#5365019) Homepage
      Is this another case of some linux people hating a distro because it's too easy to use?

      Too right!

      If everyone learns how to use Linux then I lose my smug feeling of superiority.

      Seriously, does this seem like hypocrisy run rife? Everyone says they want the world to use Linux, but when someone produces a distro that is easy enough for Win users to use as a stepping stone to *cough* 'greater things', everyone mocks it for being too dumbed down.

      I wish some people would keep their attitudes in line with their principles . . .
      • by 7-Vodka ( 195504 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @02:11PM (#5365386) Journal
        that's the thing about mandrake. It was never too dumbed down at all. I had to use mandrake as a rescue system last week and i was really overjoyed by how quick and easy it was to install a base system and from the cli, urpmi all the rescue packages I needed and use them.
      • Everyone says they want the world to use Linux, but when someone produces a distro that is easy enough for Win users to use as a stepping stone to *cough* 'greater things', everyone mocks it for being too dumbed down.

        I don't think most people in the community are really after that "smug feeling of superiority." Sure, there are elitist assholes. But I think the majority of the so-called elitist comments come as a result of frustration with those who want a free ride all the time. You see, what we REALLY want is for people to be self-sufficient, and able to figure things out for themselves. If everyone operated like this, then there would be very little time wasted explaining the documented solutions to common problems, which would free everyone up to concentrate on the real problems, in order to make progress.
        • by gregmac ( 629064 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @03:28PM (#5365773) Homepage
          You see, what we REALLY want is for people to be self-sufficient, and able to figure things out for themselves.

          But the thing is, 98% of people use computers because they are a tool to get a job done. They don't CARE to become self-sufficient, they want it to work. Like it or not, it's a reality of the computing world.

          If your car broke, and you took it to a mechanic, and he refused to do any service on it - even though he knew exactly what was wrong - until you read the engineering spec manuals for all the parts he had to replace, how happy would you be?

        • Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by bonch ( 38532 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @03:52PM (#5365868)
          Let me get this straight...you consider a "free ride" like the ability to go from Windows to Linux frustrating? You want people to be "self-sufficient" and "figure things out for themselves?" In other words, you want them to take time out of their days learning to use their system in order to be productive, when they could be using that valuable time to actually BE productive?

          If everyone operated like this, then there would be very little time wasted explaining the documented solutions to common problems, which would free everyone up to concentrate on the real problems, in order to make progress.

          Instead of this ass-backwards view, how about developers get around to FIXING those common problems, so they don't need to be explained? Expecting people to make tinkering with their OS a hobby in order to use it--lest they get a "free ride"--is ridiculous to me. It reaks of the "smug feeling of superiority" you say isn't so prevalent. Linux being difficult to set up isn't a fault of the users. I am so tired of people who imply such. Some out there need to spend some time away from their command prompt and Emacs sessions and interact with the rest of the world and see how they use computers. Otherwise, Linux will forever remain just a nice file and web server.

          Sorry for the frustrated tone...I just want Linux to succeed, and I see so many attitudes holding it back.
    • I used Mandrake throughout the 8.x series. A PowerPC person for years, I needed a PC running Linux and Windows at home and tried Mandrake. I was very impressed with its installation (far, far easier than Windows for someone unfamiliar with Windows) and other features like easy configuration and font importing.

      Why I've abandoned it:

      • The software updating blows. I use apt-get to update the Yellow Dog Linux on my laptop and it is vastly better. The ease of Debian, without having to be one of those irritating Debian users.
      • The user-friendliness got in my way when anything went wrong. Try adding a new window manager that Mandrake doesn't offer, or a secondary (CVS, for example) version of an existing one. Now fight the system until kdm learns about it. Or, when audio-CD or floppy mounting doesn't work, try making sense of the spaghetti in /etc/fstab.

      Still, having hosed that same PC trying to install Gentoo, and under orders from my wife to get some form of Linux running TODAY so she can run some software (she just doesn't get what using Linux is about ;-) ), I suspect I may be going back to that. Either that, or I'll be soon seeing some of you in #gentoo...

    • Here's my experience...

      I bought their 7.2 version at Best Buy. I thought it was pretty easy to install and use. Then I started having problems with packages. It would get to the point where I would install, uninstall a package, or even refresh the list of installed packages, and the rpm database would get corrupted. Being a newb, I didn't know how to recover from this other than a reinstall (the menus were screwed up, the installed packages went missing, etc.). I installed the updates and even got their updated CD in the mail (after badgering them for a couple of weeks -- which I shouldn't have had to do since they promissed it to registered users -- they sent me a used copy with visible wear). Even after all the updates, I still got a corrupted rpm database. After this third time, I gave up on Mandrake for good. Even though I haven't touched Mandrake for a few years, I still get occasional spam from them. Serves me right for registering.

      Maybe they have gotten better, maybe it's just my experience, but these are my reasons for not using Mandrake.
  • by stud9920 ( 236753 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:05PM (#5364787)
    I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Operating system distro Mandrake was found dead in it's Paris siege this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss it - even if you didn't enjoy their work, there's no denying their contributions to the free software movement. Truly a French icon.
  • by nicsterrr ( 529317 ) <{moc.oohay} {ta} {111retscin}> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:07PM (#5364792) Homepage
    It's worth pointing out to anyone thinking of installing this as their main OS that this is an initial release candidate and is nowhere near prime time.. be warned unless you want to find and report bugs.
    • What is a release candidate if it is not something that is considered possibly ready for release?

      john

      • What is a release candidate if it is not something that is considered possibly ready for release?



        Something to see if they have all the bugs worked out (they don't, I've filed bug reports on rc1 personally) before they release it on non-testers. That said, a release candidate is something that should be fairly stable, so the more timid beta-testers can start helping with the QA.

      • This 91.RC1 defiently is not a proper release candidate. It isn't even frozen yet! I'm really getting sick of using RC tags in linux world, and Mandrake had been the prime offender until KDE released seven candidates...
        • This 91.RC1 defiently is not a proper release candidate. It isn't even frozen yet! I'm really getting sick of using RC tags in linux world, and Mandrake had been the prime offender until KDE released seven candidates...

          Not frozen yet? Better go read again... [mandrakelinux.com]

          Quoting from the webpage:

          RC1 - Feb, 19th 2003 Release notes:
          • The list of packages is frozen
          • New Mandrake theme "Galaxy" is available
          • "Supermount" is back
    • and if you do... (Score:3, Informative)

      by 7-Vodka ( 195504 )
      wish to try it and report bugs, you won't regret it. In my experience they tend to have the fastest turn around I've ever seen fixing bugs. All of mine were fixed within 24hrs of reporting.
    • by Thing 1 ( 178996 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @03:41PM (#5365822) Journal
      be warned unless you want to find and report bugs.

      And if you do want to report bugs, they have BugZilla [mandrakesoft.com] set up to make it really easy.

      Sometimes it's difficult to determine which package things go in when reporting, but the developers have been very nice and helpful in moving my bugs around to the proper places. And as another comment mentioned, the turn-around time is quick.

  • As a distro... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous DWord ( 466154 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:07PM (#5364794) Homepage
    Mandrake is great. They've really built something that's useful in its own right, and provides many useful things back into the community. Maybe it's not for you, but it's a great place to start for a lot of people. A nice introduction.

    The problem is, Mandrake as a business is like a comedy of errors. All sorts of crazy problems, some of which were outside their control, and some that could (and should) have been avoided in the first place. 20/20 hindsight is nice, so I can't carp too much, but if they could get their shit together for just one release (no distribution problems; keep the paying club members happy, and get them a box before it's been on shelves for 3 months), I think things could turn around in a hurry.
    • Mandrake the distribution is and always has been profitable. The problems are not with the distribution. The Mandrake has is they signed a bunch of e-education contracts during the internet boom, they have not been able to deliver and they owe money to financial distressed companies.
  • Good for Mandrake (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gyorg_Lavode ( 520114 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:08PM (#5364797)
    I'm looking forward to Mandrake 9.1. I had alot of gripes about Mandrake 9.0, not least of which is the separated package management, but I've gotten acustom to using kpackage so that doesn't bother me any more. Hopefully 9.1 will include many of the bug fixes for the other problems I had.

    Now all the new stuff I"m looking forward to, zeroconf network, kde 3.1, gnome 2.2, XFree86 4.3, 4.21 kernel and a cornacopia of other programs, are in mandrake 9.1. While in the end I intend to move over to debian completely, IMO mandrake is the best of the others for me. I can't wait for 9.1 to become available.

  • My experiance (Score:4, Informative)

    by hswerdfe ( 569925 ) <[slashdot.org] [ ... .swerdfeger.com]> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:09PM (#5364800) Homepage Journal
    I've Been Using
    9.1 Beta 2 for about a month and I have to say ...
    it rocks

    it is much beter than Mandrake 8.0....

    it is by far the easiest distro I have ever used
    and with the exception of Knoppix the easiest to install...:)

    I personaly hope they survive....

    all of the needed aps are there I only have few complaints....

    1. I had to specially select Vi for install and emacs auto installed...(Flame away)..

    2. Gnome meeting was not installed...by default

    3. I am having trouble changing some of the default loggin, and boot manager stuff....

    other than that....I give the 9.1 Beta 2 an A+ ....
    give it to any newbee they will be happy
  • by A_Non_Moose ( 413034 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:10PM (#5364806) Homepage Journal
    Mandrake was a French distro....so it will never die.

    Surrender, yes, but die? Never (pronounced: Nev'air!)

    {SEG}
  • WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zulux ( 112259 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:15PM (#5364832) Homepage Journal
    Mandrake Linux has been beaten down by linux experts alike

    Ok. I'm a Linux, more specifically a Unix "expert" and I can see nothing wrong with Mandrake:

    A easy to install, easy to use, full featured Linux desktop? How horrible! Oh the humanity! When will it stop!

    It's not like Mandrake Linux pissed in my Wheeties this morning.

  • by timothy ( 36799 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:20PM (#5364860) Journal
    Even if you don't use Mandrake, you've probably benefited from the work they've put into "making the Linux desktop user friendly."

    (That's a category I'm in right now: I don't currently have any systems running Mandrake, but for about three years running -- until about a month ago -- I did.)

    - Mandrake concentrates on ease of install. Not that everyone's intuition is actually the same, goes the past-the-nipple argument, but Hey, Mandrake 6 did a lot better job with *my* intuition (and hardware) than did any of the contemporaries I can remember putting on.

    - Automount. Yes, it's come and gone strangely (back now?), but Automount is a very good thing. Try explaining to a Mac user the procedure of mounting a CD drive, or a simple %$#@ USB memory key thing.

    - Mandrake (afaik) was the first and so far only Linux distro to be sold as a standalone product in Walmart, and I bought several versions there (as the king of Swamp Castle says "... just to show 'em!"). Software specifics aside, this is another good reason to be grateful to Mandrake, whether you use their distro or not. Lindows was *not* the first Walmart-associated Linux :) [And I could be wrong -- perhaps they also had Red Hat, dunno.]

    Mandrake started to fade off my systems when I discovered how nice Red Hat 8 is, and then when I used Knoppix to convert some machines to Debian. (And since I need to reduce the number of machines floating around here, there are fewer computers with which I care to purely experiment.) However, I plan to try the 9.1 release candidate to see where it falls.

    Cheers,

    timothy
    • The beauty of Knoppix is obviously its automagic hardware configuration. Well, you know what that is? It's HardDrake, Mandrake's hardware recognition tool. That's the magic of Mandrake, and the common sense of Klaud Knopper, to tack it onto Debian.
    • - Mandrake (afaik) was the first and so far only Linux distro to be sold as a standalone product in Walmart, and I bought several versions there (as the king of Swamp Castle says "... just to show 'em!"). Software specifics aside, this is another good reason to be grateful to Mandrake, whether you use their distro or not. Lindows was *not* the first Walmart-associated Linux :) [And I could be wrong -- perhaps they also had Red Hat, dunno.]


      More power to you for defending Mandrake 'n all... but wtf. Wal-mart is Hell-On-Earth(tm). It's the kind of place you'd be sent there for an eternity as punishment for your sins. It's a clubhouse for the fat, ugly, and painfully stupid. If you escape the parking lot without being hit by someone you should be on your knees thanking whichever god you worship. Hell just the name alone screams redneck central :(. I would rather have hot pokers shoved up my ass than ever have to go to that place.

      Yay for Mandrake 'n all... but Wal-mart is NOTHING to brag about.
    • - Mandrake (afaik) was the first and so far only Linux distro to be sold as a standalone product in Walmart, and I bought several versions there (as the king of Swamp Castle says "... just to show 'em!"). Software specifics aside, this is another good reason to be grateful to Mandrake, whether you use their distro or not. Lindows was *not* the first Walmart-associated Linux :) [And I could be wrong -- perhaps they also had Red Hat, dunno.]

      While my example is not Wal-Mart, but, FYI, I used to be able to buy Red Hat and Mandrake from Best Buy. As a matter of fact, I have still have the "Linux-Mandrake 7.2 Professional Suite" box set I bought from Best Buy. I believe that I have seen SUSE available at Best Buy as well. Now, mind you, the choices available at Best Buy have dwindled I think, but I know at least Red Hat is still available. (Right next to all the M$ stuff). Best Buy actually tried to keep a decent selection at one time... I remember BeOS (yes you read that right) on the shelf next to Red Hat, when BeOS was still kicking.
  • I upgraded my MDK9.0 server to this yesterday.

    It loaded fine but on reboot my servers data disk was empty(WTF?) and I this was an upgrade so it should have left it alone.

    The volume was corrupt and no attempt with Diskdrake would properly create it. I had to do it all from the command line and restore data from the backup. Not a good sign for a system that was working fine in under 9.0.

    Still too early to tell if any other hiccups have occured and this was an upgrade and a beta so please use this information with plenty of salt! :-)

    On the other hand it appears to operating faster even in X which says alot as it is an old Celeron 500 and was not real suited to running X. Not that I use X much. I use it mostly as a MySQL and Samba server for my home/office net.

    Mostly I feel positive about this but the disk issues scare me a bit. Time will tell.
    • On the other hand it appears to operating faster even in X which says alot as it is an old Celeron 500 and was not real suited to running X. Not that I use X much. I use it mostly as a MySQL and Samba server for my home/office net.

      Whoa.. what planet are you from? :) My main desktop is a dual Celery 500 (has been for about 3 years now). I have only one complaint about the speed, and that's G++ compiling (which is slow for everyone...). I use this for lots of C development work, Java, Mozilla, heavy mail usage, it's got a web server, MySQL instance... it's not a slow machine!

      (Maybe if you put KDE/Gnome on it, but I use Golem [sf.net] instead. I wouldn't use KDE/Gnome if someone paid me to do so...)

      Sadly, this machine feels at least 3-4 times faster than the Athlon XP 1900+ running XP across the room that work sent me. And that's after removing Explorer and replacing it with LiteStep. It's got one of those super-crappy Via chipsets though, so that's not really even the same universe ;)

      I have a FreeBSD server running on a K62-266 w/64MB of RAM, and re-soldered motherboard traces for the HD (scratched 'em off during a case transplant one time). It is appropriately named "Dixie" for the Neuromancer fans out there. :) It runs Samba, NFS, MySQL, Apache+PHP, Squid, and djbdns in both cache and serve modes. Works great, less filling :)

      I dunno. I know you weren't making a big point out of the celery thing, I just don't understand why people feel like hardware is useless if it's more than a GHz behind the fastest hardware.

  • by perotbot ( 632237 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:33PM (#5364928) Journal
    So it's easy, when is the linux community going to drop this attitude of "Linux is supposed to be hard".

    In the last three weeks I've tried RedHat 8.0(too slow on a 366mhz machine), Yopper, Knoppix (lots of stuff) and Mandrake 9.0. Of them all, I'm using mandrake. Why? because everything worked, first time, everytime. So I went out and bought a copy. Voting with my wallet, the easiest thing to do. I hope they make it out of Chapter 11 or whatever the french equivalent is. They're providing the gateway to make it easier to switch, without the cost overhead that Lindows requires.
  • End to Freeloading (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Idou ( 572394 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:36PM (#5364939) Journal
    Since some posts appear to be made in ignorance of this fact, Mandrake apparently is no longer going to be the best distro to freeload off of.

    Only members will be able to download the new version, or order cheap cd sets when it is first released. Depending on what kind of member you are (I am a Silver member) will determine what kind of bandwidth priority you get. I think the free download version for 9.1 will only be available after the package version is in stores for a while. Maybe the free download to the public will not even be available until the first RC of the next distro is out.

    Complain all you want, but you brought this upon yourself. I became a member and was willing to let my membership fees go, in part, to allowing freeloaders download at the same time as everyone else. However, there were too many of you and too few of me, so now if you don't want to pay but want the newest version you will have to just use an RC (sounds fair to me).

    Anyway, Mandrake not being dead is not news to me or any other members. It is just news to the people who don't care enough to get involved. Why such people would even care about weither Mandrake is dead or not eludes me.
    • Wrong! (Score:5, Informative)

      by JM ( 18663 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @01:09PM (#5365083) Homepage
      The parent post is complete B.S.

      Yes, the Club Members will have a more complete list of mirrors, possibly including Club-Only mirrors.

      But as far as I know (and I am a Mandrake employee, so I should know), Mandrake Linux 9.1 will be available for everyone on public mirrors.

      Don't forget that it's 100% open-source, most of the stuff is GPL, so it has to be distributable by everyone.

      That said, I strongly suggest our users become members of the Club, it's the best way to support our work.
    • Nonetheless, would you remind me once again how much Mandrake pays Linus and Redhat for IP licensing?

      You don't suppose they got started in the first place by simply downloading other people's work for free, dicking it around a bit, and reselling it?

      Them's the rules, and they knew it, and took advantage of it, when they entered the fray.

      Next thing you know people will be accused of "stealing" Mandrake because they downloaded Debian instead. It's doofey.

      KFG
  • by csisux ( 592319 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:36PM (#5364941)
    Xandros already supports resizing NTFS partitions.
  • by rampant mac ( 561036 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:36PM (#5364942)
    ...but this new release of Mandrake may hold many promising Linux users...

    Distributions keep getting larger and larger, but now they come with promising Linux users? Wow! What will they think of next?

  • by bogie ( 31020 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:38PM (#5364949) Journal
    I thought would point out that Redat 8.1 Beta 3 is also out.

    You can see the anouncement here

    https://listman.redhat.com/pipermail/phoebe-list /2 003-February/002969.html

    Its got Gnome 2.2, KDE 3.1, kernel 2.4.20, OpenOffice 1.02, CUPS as default, etc

    So far I've found some bugs and the occasional app crash, but its shaping up to be real nice. Speed is better than 8.0, mostly due to the new kernel I suspect. (RH 8.0 sped up a lot for me by going to 2.4.20) Its great to see Redhat finally actually trying to put out a good desktop and the effort is really paying off. One last thing I've mentioned before, I pitty the distro that doesn't ship with as good a font setup as Redhat uses. They'll get put to the wall for it and rightly so. Its high time that not a single distro ships with shitty fonts anymore.

    Anyway its worth a look if you have the bandwidth.
  • by gukin ( 14148 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:48PM (#5364980)
    Just like Loki software is dead, no more games, the entire "linux game industry" collapsed when loki went away. All those great developers disappeared off the face of the earth never to think about a penguin again. Dan Vogel (the Really Smart Guy who ported UT to OpenGl) just disappeared, oh yeah except he ported UT2003 to OpenGL and got a Linux installer on the retail media. Loki is all gone, they've gone to the great icculus.org in the sky.

    Yes Mandrake is dead, the IT (Ironed Tee shirts) pissed off all the money and Mandrake is dead. Oh, there's still that 10-12 guys who put together the release candidates, and the betas. The guys who are busting their humps as we speak to put together the hippest easiest bestest distro ever to be released. Yes it's dead, RedHat 8.0 just cleaned it out. Nobody needs Little Mandrake anymore, nobody ever cared about DRI working immediately after installation, and EVERYONE is listening to ogg media instead of MP3's. Sure Mandrake is dead, nobody even cared that Redhat 8.0's kernel didn't work right with WineX.

    Dead dead dead, nobody needs an easy to use, easy to install, distro which can be installed on a computer with XP pre-installed without having to destroy the XP partition.

    Everyone is pure, everyone runs Pure Linux, nobody needs games, nobody dual-boots, nobody is a noob, nobody needs to RTFM.

    I renewed my Mandrake membership last week, did you?
  • Remember, bankruptcy does not mean the end.
  • I hope MandrakeSoft stays alive, simply because they seem to be the only major distro that "get's it" in the Linux community. They have consistently been pushing to make Linux easier to install and use, without browbeating newcomers into a "it must be bad if it's easy" mentality. I applaud them for it.
  • by Karl Cocknozzle ( 514413 ) <kcocknozzle.hotmail@com> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @01:06PM (#5365057) Homepage
    Don't just post to slashdot. Go out, with wallet in hand, and BUY a boxed Mandrake distribution. Hell, buy two and get one for a friend. I've bought three mandrake distros in the last few years and will probably buy 9.1 when it comes out too.

    Just because it is available for free doesn't mean there isn't some merit in paying for it sometimes. I won't go up on some soap box about how "every download is a dagger in free software's heart" because that would be absurd. Free downloads are what spur the rapid discovery, reporting and repair of bugs as well as bring noobs into the fold. 95% of the noobs I've brought over have been swayed with the logic "Hey, no risk to try it other than the download time..."

    But at the same time, if you get good use out of Mandrake, (or any distribution) the best support you can give them is to vote with your dollars. Spend some money on Mandrake services or products. Buy a t-shirt... I bet your girlfriend would look smashing in a "Mandrake Club" t-shirt... (Is that the geek equivalent of having her wear your football jersey?)
    *money = &mouth; /* Put your money where your mouth is. */
  • by jensend ( 71114 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @01:36PM (#5365212)
    Xandros Deluxe also resizes NTFS [xandros.com] with PQDisk, proprietary software by PowerDesk (the makers of Partition Manager).

    Mandrake's market niche is getting squeezed at both ends, by Redhat working to make their system more user-friendly as well as by up-and-coming distros like Xandros working to make a simpler Linux experience. If RedHat decides to work more at their dependency/updating system (outdoing urpmi and apt rpm) for 9.0, Mandrake's niche will disappear.
  • Anyone got screen shots of the new Mandrake theme?

  • Can't wait (Score:4, Funny)

    by MicroBerto ( 91055 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @02:35PM (#5365485)
    I can't wait for 9.1 - The installation will really clean up my system. After each release, I start installing rebuilding development cooker rpms, and by this time, my system is in such a state of terror that I haven't been able to compile a program for like 4 months :)

    But with a new release, I'll get everything on the same page... and then repeat the process until 9.2!

  • Happiness.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by _marshall ( 71584 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @04:28PM (#5366103) Homepage
    Is knowing you downloaded The 3 ISOs before it was posted on slashdot.
  • by ebbomega ( 410207 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @04:41PM (#5366163) Journal
    The RC1 was actually released last Wednesday, and that would be the day I installed it and got it running.

    Fucking beautiful, except Wine keeps crapping out on me (expected considering it's still in bux-fix mode). Seriously, one of the reviews I read about Mandrake 9.0 was that they had evolved to a lot more of an "expensive" or "professional" look. While I'm sitting here hoping that the installer for RC1 is only a temporary thing and that they go back to the format they had for 8.2 and 9.0, I have to say that they actually outdid themselves for this release. Gnome 2.2 is slick, With a really _really_ nice new font set... New GnomeICU (one of the main programs I use) is a lot nicer than previous versions, etc. etc.

    The only main problem I have is with the installer, which I'm guessing is because they're not quite done with it yet... It seems to be missing a whole thwack of packages that are on the CDs (Apache and Wine to name a couple) but all in all this distro is very very slick.

    So I've pretty much decided now that I'm a bona-fide Mandrake user....

    As soon as I garner up enough money I'm going to be sending in for a 9.1 boxed set... I'd honestly hate to see them go under, because as I see it they're offering me a really quality product.
  • by badasscat ( 563442 ) <basscadet75&yahoo,com> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @05:12PM (#5366309)
    I admit I'm a noob, but I haven't had very good luck with 9.1 so far. I desperately want to run a Linux desktop and I'd heard Mandrake was the easiest (which it still may be for all I know - just because it's hard for me doesn't mean the others aren't harder). But so far, here are the problems I've had starting with 9.0 and now actually getting worse in 9.1:

    1. Network doesn't work. This is new in 9.1 RC1. It worked in the betas and in 9.0, but doesn't in RC1. I have heard various workarounds but being a noob haven't really tried getting my hands dirty yet. It detects my card but does not connect to the net, and will not even connect to my router (so it's not just an internet thing).

    2. Font import doesn't work. This has never worked for me, in any Mandrake release. I have pared my Windows fonts down to the minimum and it still hangs at various points during the import - hangs to the point where I need to restart the system in order to kill the process.

    3. Mounting of pretty much anything other than the Linux partition on my hard drive takes about 10 minutes, as does doing any operation at all once mounted. This includes simply listening to a CD, or browsing my pictures on my Windows partition. Again, just trying to listen to a CD last night necessitated a reboot.

    Any one of these is almost enough to get me to give up on Linux as a whole for now. Windows, for now, is much more useful as a desktop, however "easy" Mandrake is to use. I've spent almost 100% of my time with Mandrake so far just trying to get it set up, and I still can't get some pretty important things to work at all. I hope Mandrake and other distros continue to improve to the point where a newbie like me can actually use them, but I don't think we're at that point yet.
  • by Zapdos ( 70654 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @05:45PM (#5366493)
    But after having to pay for that bandwidth spike caused by slashdot.

  • by yoink! ( 196362 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @03:11AM (#5368954) Homepage Journal
    Mandrake huh? I remember when I walked into a friend's apartment and asked what that strange looking Windowing System was. KDE was the response; KDE included with the Mandrake Distribution of Linux. I believe it was version 5 at the time.

    So intrigued I was that, upon my return home, I downloaded and installed Mandrake right away. I was hooked. Having never used Linux before, I immediately downloaded Debian as well and started reading about this strange little kernel called Linux. So whilst I read all I could about Debian, I used Mandrake, learning far more in the using than in the reading. I in fact never got Debian to work they way I wanted and continued to use only Mandrake.

    My self-owned small business signed on with Mandrake to become Quebec's only distributor of the Power Pack series (at the time.) It was here that I ran into trouble. I was caught between my love of the distribution, and the hatred of their distribution system. I was forced to pre-buy large quantities of boxed Power Packs. I never got rid of a version set without having to buy more of the new version set. When all was said and done, and I was ready to give up the ghost, I had leftover power packs of 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 7.0, 7.1 and 7.2. Altogether I had spent over $1000K on Linux Mandrake Power Packs. I never made a cent, and in fact lost plenty. There was no response from any Mandrake offices; complaints and questions remained unanwered. Additionally, it took them several years to get my name of their list of resellers.

    So here I find myself, years later, introduced to Linux and the OpenSource community by then-little Linux Mandrake. I still have a Mandrake-based Linux install running at my home. The distro has been modified heavily and possibly retains little resemblance to any known Mandrake products but that's how it started. I have now used many OSes that would not have made their way into my life without Mandrake. I recently discovered the joys of the BSD OSes, all thanks to Mandrake.

    As much as I would like to say that I will be forever indebted to Linux Mandrake, the fact is that MandrakeSoft is really endebted to people who took a real hit early on simply because they loved the distribution so much. Although they have continued to put out a very useful distribution one has to wonder how other projects (with a much smaller bankroll) have survived and prospered.

    Nonetheless, I will still recommend Mandrake to anyone who asks, and proudly exclaim it still remains part of my home network. My previous finacial and promotional support met with no rewards and even less satisfaction. They seem unable to run a economically viable ship and as has been the case with many other companies producing good products, tough luck. I do hope they survive, and I hope people have had a better experience with the business side of things than I have. Their product opens up a world of possibilites for those who want an easy-to-use and inexpensive alternative to the costly but widely accepted operating systems for the x86 platform. I wish them luck in their future endeavours.

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