TurboTax Activation Fiasco 559
kurtinatlanta writes "Though the news broke in September, no one cares about tax return preparation software until January. Apparently Intuit's activation scheme for TurboTax will only allow you to print or file your returns from the computer on which you first installed it. The phrase "one computer" in their license literally means one computer. Moving the software (i.e. disk reformat, buy new computer) requires buying it again. There are all kinds of negative reviews on amazon.com as a result. Is this problem real or overhyped?" There's a more recent story about the flap. The Intuit PR rep is quoted as saying that people can install the software on multiple computers using the same activation code, but I don't think an unworking installation really counts.
My take (Score:5, Insightful)
It's real. If I buy something, I damned well better be able to use it/reinstall it if my computer blows up.
Think about it.
Re:My take (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:My take (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know. TurboTax is only good for one tax year, so the useage lifetime for the software is as long as it takes me to actually do my taxes, which is only a couple of days, if that. Not a very big window of opportunity for total system failure , IMHO. It's not like they're keying the O/S to your hardware via the Internet or anything.
Amended Returns (Score:4, Informative)
While it is of limited use, some people do need to access/change previous tax returns. With the new product activation it sounds like I may have been screwed.
Re:Intuit's activation scheme is a VERY serious is (Score:3, Informative)
If you read the article, you'd see that it doesn't. For $29.95, I'd snag it. Accordign to the article, the Platinum edition is "single owner/multiple computer" licensed. I.e. You can install it on multiple computers you own. So grab it now.
But if you're audited ... (Score:5, Insightful)
But what if you get that audit letter from the IRS in two or three years? You may want to reinstall 2002 TurboTax so you can review your records, only to find that it won't work on your most recent PC.
What if you simply need to file an amended return later this year? What if you lost your paper copy of your return and want to print another? What if you have trouble exporting your 2002 data to 2003 TurboTax, or maybe to a competing product without such an obnoxious copy protection mechanism?
There are lots of scenarios where you might need to use this software long after your initial filing. It's too bad Intuit is adopting the same kind of customer-hostile philosophy pioneered by our beloved MPAA & RIAA.
Re:My take (Score:5, Insightful)
The technology of perfect IP control is, however, either here now (in the case of software) or on the way (in the case of DVDs, CDs, and movies). It WILL be technologically possible to prevent recording, copying, or subsequent use. If you think you should be able to transfer without copying, then you had better get a bit more politically active. Consider joining/supporting the Electronic Frontier Foundation [eff.org] and write your congressional deleagation in opposition to the DMCA (which is already law) and several other proposed but not-yet-passed pieces of legislation designed to control even your presently legal use of your purchases.
Copyright infringement is, and should be illegal, but the principle of first sale, the right to archive, fair use, and the other consumer "rights" that came only from imprefect control technologies are in grave danger. If you think these should be rights of yours, by thunder, say so!
Re:My take (Score:5, Informative)
Do some research before you start spouting about things you don't understand -- the right of first sale is codified in law, and has been affirmed by the supreme court in numerous cases. There may be debate about how it applies to some digital media by some corporations, but that doesn't change the fact that it certainly is a legal right.
Re:My take (Score:3, Informative)
The fact that the Act of 1976 codified some rights that came to exist through imperfect control does not grant those AS rights to the citizens. Read all of HR2281. It amends title 17 all over the place. I didn't just make this stuff up. Then go on and read the rest of it. Then come back and tell me you have those right enumerated in the Copyright Act of 1976.
Re:My take (Score:4, Insightful)
This of course is the evil genuis nature of the DMCA. As has been claimed, you have certain rights
This is my scheme for copy protection: Either a product is released "in plaintext" -- that is, with no access control mechanisms -- and the copyright holder is allowed to pursue infringers through the power of the courts. Or a piece is released with technological protections in place -- but then the producer has no right to redress under the court system.
In other words, don't muck with First Sale or Fair Use -- or you're on your own. If your encryption/protection works, more power to you. But if some kiddie cracks your access control mechanism, then too bad... you have no right to sue.
I don't think there's a snowball's chance in a supernova of such a law passing, but I think it would be fair.
Re:My take (Score:4, Insightful)
Mark me paranoid, but the info is my tax info. The program is as much a part of the archival data as the .tax file and the paper copies. If there's any question about how I came up with the answers on the paper form, I darn well better be able to install it on another computer so I can access the data and algorithms that went into the conclusion.
Guess my complaint to them last September went unheeded. :-)
Re:My take (Score:5, Interesting)
I should be able to shut off the ads in quickbooks.
I shouldn't have to pay $75 for technical service that I never recieved.
I shouldn't have to pay $149 a year for tax tables when the gross margin must be 98%.
I shouldn't have to call and explain to them who I am to reinstall my 1999 tax software
If I have to call them, they should be open 24/7 not just when it's convenient for them.
Just the ads in quickbooks alone are reeediculous. I generate an invoice, intuit wants to sell me a service to check if the customer will pay. I write a check, they want to sell me checks. I quit quickbooks, they want to sell me back-up services.
I shouldn't have to get 200K of my closest
They aren't devoted to customer satisfaction, they are devoted to squeezing the absolute most they can out of their customers. I think just a few google searches will be enough to demonstrate that they have squeezed too hard and will therefore, like they have with me and many others in on this article, lose business due to an almost complete disinterest in customer satisfaction.
Oh, and I've written them about all of these issues. Not even the courtesy of a reply. They couldn't be bothered to lift a pen, much less fix the issue. Customer service indeed.
The way you "tell them" (Score:3, Informative)
The guys who run Intuit aren't stupid; they know they'll achieve a certain amount of dissatisfaction from some customers and lose some business, but they're betting the increase in revenue from a curtailment in copyright violations outweighs the loss of customer satisfaction and any subsequent loss of sales.
Buy something else, then write them a letter letting them know they lost a sale.
Intuit is smart enough to know that they may have 90% of the market this year, but they've got to sell you again every year. Its the nature of the market for this kind of software.
If they can't count on that annuity, they'll get the message.
Re:My take (Score:3, Informative)
Read the submission! (Score:5, Informative)
No, you can install on another machine, you just can't print or file your return from that machine. Installation and printing are completely different things last I checked.
Re:Read the submission! (Score:2, Insightful)
Just be glad you have under 500 comments, or else michael will just pass you off as a 'person that lives on slashdot and has no life.'
Re:Read the submission! (Score:3, Offtopic)
Re:Read the submission! (Score:4, Interesting)
Moderation rears its ugly head again, I see you got an offtopic slap.
Anyway, think of why this happens. Especially in a story like this, Slashdot (or the OSDN keiretsu) could be fully taken to court by Intuit because of misrepresentation of facts and loss of business related to that. Don't know the exact legal term, but I'd think it's somewhat akin to slander. Never mind that it doesn't really matter - TurboTax and the whole activation thing sucks. But it's different if it's plastered all over the front page for half a million people to see.
Ergo, the "editorial byline" is fixed with alacrity. Very convenient.
Hmmm. What's that I see in the distance? An offtopic bitchslap on this thread? Could it be? Yes!!
Re:Read the submission! (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, from this particular editor this sort of thing has come to be expected. Michael-baiting has developed as a reaction to this. It is a mark of honor of sorts to be modded down while pointed out what a terrible editor he is.
Yes, I saw the story as it was originally posted and it did change. Of course in a situation like this where the change is because an editor shot his mouth off rather than an actual update to the story I can see why this happened. What would they post as an update? "Sorry, an editor went a little too far here, please ignore the previous sentence." That wouldn't work too well. What they need to do is be more careful in the first place. And fire someone in addition to Katz.
Re:Read the submission! (Score:5, Insightful)
Use TaxAct.com (Score:4, Informative)
Or, pay an actual human being to do your taxes. I've never done it but I understand they know all about the loopholes and stuff.
Re:Use TaxAct.com (Score:2)
Re:Use TaxAct.com (Score:2)
Or, pay an actual human being to do your taxes. I've never done it but I understand they know all about the loopholes and stuff.
We may know about some of the loopholes (although I wouldn't call them loopholes, then you'd be evading taxes), but most of them can't really help you until the next year. Of course, going with a professional might help ensure that you get all the deductions that you deserve. I'd hardly call that a loophole.
Just don't go with H&R Block. They don't do very much more then act as typists into the software you can buy much more cheaply.
Re:don't go with H&R Block (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, I know because I asked that the preparers have to go through a several week course, and pass a final test with at least 80-85% competency or they wash out of the program.
I think my experience trumps yours here. I took the H&R Block course. There were quite a few incompetent people taking it with me. And not a single one of them failed.
Some are also trained as Financial Advisors or Loan Advisors for Block subsidiaries, so they can sometimes point out methods of saving additional tax $ based on good investments, mortgage refinancing, etc..
And the vast majority aren't, and are specifically informed that they "are not auditors" and therefore are not supposed to advise their clients on any tax issues. They are merely supposed to ask the proper questions (which appear on their computer screen) and type them into the computer.
As for their offer to check past returns, you should realize that the people doing that checking essentially aren't getting paid by H&R Block to do it. See there is a minimal hourly salary, but it is drawn against a commission structure. All but the most incompetent employees earn more off commissions, so they aren't paid anything when there aren't any customers, so Block gives them some busy work during the slow hours checking other people's returns.
Obviously if you double check a lot of returns, you're going to come up with a lot of mistakes. I've come up with thousand dollar mistakes checking H&R Block returns from previous years, so it's not like H&R Block is special there.
Those who can do. Those who can't work for H&R Block.
Main thing for me as a small consulting company owner is that you know you're not dealing with an Enron-esque company -- their ethics and credibility are top notch.
Ha! H&R Block has been sued over and over again by the IRS for ripping off their customers. And that's just things that the company itself was responsible for. The employees pull even bigger scams [wnbc.com].
Re:Use TaxAct.com (Score:5, Insightful)
Amen to that! My wife and her family haven't filled out their own tax forms for many years. I used to laugh at their willingness to throw away Good Money, but after we got married and bought a house, I decided to do a bake-off between using TurboTax myself vs. their long-time wetware tax preparer. The result? TurboTax cost me $70 ($30 fed. + $20/each for two states), took about three hours to go through (and another couple of hours or so to print and proofread) and I got a refund of $x. The tax preparer cost $120, took 40 minutes, and got us a refund of $x + $400 via legit "loopholes" (things like moving costs, higher ed credits, etc.).
If you need to fill out only a 1040EZ form, you definitely don't need TurboTax or a preparer, but if you have dependents or itemize deductions, I highly recommend going to a live person. (And no, IANATP.)
Re:Use TaxAct.com (Score:3, Funny)
I hope that last part doesn't stand for 'tax payer'.
Re:Use TaxAct.com (Score:2, Informative)
Unbeliveable! (Score:3, Insightful)
Let the corps have their 8,000 page tax code, with their carefully lobbied for loopholes -- they can afford to hire professional accountants. And lobbiests. And lawyers.
Simplfy the tax code for normal, flesh-and-blood, breathing, REAL PERSONS.
One good review (Score:5, Funny)
Re:One good review (Score:4, Interesting)
Look at this review:
------------------
Christopher R Chirdon from Pittsburgh, PA USA
I was reading reviews here when I really checked into the online activation stuff. But someone was concerned if you could import your 2001 "filename.tax" file from TurboTax 2001 into TaxCut 2002 and the answer is YES! I bought TaxCut because I want to prepare on my personal computer and then take it to work to print on my laser printer, but I don't want to have to buy 2 licenses. Also, it's just SUCH a hassle. The funny thing is, I don't think taxCut uses ANY type of authentication. I put the CD in and it never asked me for a serial or anything, just a box that said "Is this a legal copy? Y/N".
In a nutshell, if you are concerned about buying TaxCut 2002 and importing your TurboTax 2001 goo, don't be. It went right in for me, and the program seems to be every bit as good as TurboTax. It doesn't have that annoying "da dum dum, da dum da" musical intro that always bothered me either...
Re:One good review (Score:3, Informative)
Alternative? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm finally gonna switch because of this but my big question is, which competing product would be best to go with and why?
TIA
Re:Alternative? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Alternative? (Score:2)
Re:Alternative? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Alternative? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Alternative? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Alternative? (Score:2)
Sub-question - which can handle schedule C? (Score:2)
'Installing' versus 'using' (Score:4, Interesting)
Misleading, perhaps, but not an outright falsehood.
Just do it online! (Score:3, Informative)
Pencil (Score:3, Insightful)
I rather like it.
Smell of cedar and graphite. A little calculator, a big rule book. Lots of nice little numbers.
Re:Pencil (Score:2)
I like doing it manually as well, but there's a major delay doing it by hand. You have to mail it in, then someone needs to physically open and work the forms and stuff. E-file is quick.. like receiving your return in a couple days quick.
To each his own.
Re:Pencil (Score:4, Informative)
You do realize that if you get a refund when you file your taxes, that basically means you just gave the government an interest free loan, right? The trick is to withhold as little as possible during the year so you either break even or owe a little bit on April 15 (not enough to get an underpayment penalty, of course). Then your money is YOURS throughout the whole year, and you can save it and invest it anyway you like the whole time.
TurboTax sucks anyway (Score:5, Interesting)
I was looking for a good e-file solution, so I found Turbotax online. For $10 you can file your 1040, no software to install, it's a secure java applet. Cool. I spent a good 45 minutes filling everything out, triple checking my numbers, submitted it, life was good.
Three weeks later, I get an envelope from the IRS.
It seems that Turbotax f#@%ed up my taxable income, and stiffed me $320 on my federal return. The IRS fixed it and sent me a check for the difference, but I was still ticked. I printed off all the info and studied it carefully. All the data I put in was right. I ran the numbers manually, and what do you know, my taxable income was lower, and when I comp[uted the tax table I found the missing $320.
F@#% YOU, TURBOTAX.
Re:TurboTax sucks anyway (Score:5, Funny)
Shouldnt that be (Score:4, Interesting)
Lets remember, its YOUR money THEY are taking.
Possible Solution? (Score:5, Insightful)
The only trick is you need to have VMWare ($300).
Re:Possible Solution? (Score:3, Informative)
Not with Safecast2 you won't be. It detects VMware as a debugger.
Safecast2 is a product from our perennial
Hedley
e-mail to support dutifully ignored (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm using something else next year.
More than once ... (Score:2)
I've been using TurboTax since '86. Sometimes I miss the simplicity of the old DOS based program. I mean their first attempt at Windows was nearly as maddening as the tax code itself.
As for having to buy an install for each and every computer. Yeah, well, while it takes wild horses to refrain me from doing my taxes more than once on multiple machines, this policy sucks. Mostly because upgrades happen. Considering TurboTax can be purchased back in September for the purposes of tax planning, what happens to the poor schmuck who gets a new computer between then and April 15?
Another scenario. Offline storage. In the past, after I've done my taxes, I burn a backup onto CD and remove the product. Then when tax time comes around, I reinstall it so I can activate an upgrade. So much for doing that this year.
Good thing I'm going to wait till the night before. I don't even like the pig on one machine. Perhaps its time for this long time user to find a new tax package.
TurboTax 2001 cost me $500...! (Score:3, Interesting)
Learn from me: go to a tax prep specialist and stay the hell away from do-it-yourself software solutions.
Re:TurboTax 2001 cost me $500...! (Score:2, Informative)
Perhaps rephrase it... "go to a reputable tax prep specialist and stay the hell away from do-it-yourself software solutions."
Re:TurboTax 2001 cost me $500...! (Score:3, Interesting)
Then it would be H&R Block who ends up being the defendant in a new court case. They (H&R) have a fiduciary responsibility to fill the paperwork out in a reasonably correct manner. Failure to do so not only makes them look bad but can come back to haunt them. Plus, I could malign them all over the Internet--and since it would be based on true performance (like my rant about TT 2001) they couldn't do anything about it.
Damn.... (Score:4, Funny)
Crap.
Other software (Score:2)
Pissed me off to no end - if I had realized this was the case before, I never would have bought it.
What I'd like to see (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't need FinanceChick and TaxDude giving me video advice. I just need the instructions, the forms, and a way to save while I go out back and beat up on the shed, woodpile or a bear when I get to the "Your income tax due (or your refund)" line...
$G
Re:What I'd like to see (Score:4, Informative)
The state of MA has already done this, with an easy-to-use web interface (over HTTPS, of course) that puts the state edition of TurboTax to shame. MA doesn't have that complex of a tax code anyway, so there really isn't much for software to do in the first place besides data entry and transmission.
Re:What I'd like to see (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it utterly ridiculous that our tax code is so difficult? Absolutely! However, we're pretty much stuck with it for the foreseeable future, so you may as well make the best of it.
Can I move a data file? (Score:2)
You know, I'll never understand why companies feel they need to "break something that works..." TurboTax has dominated the Tax Software market. Now what they're doing is encouraging us to look elsewhere. I know I will!
So What? Audits, that's what. (Score:4, Insightful)
1. You can no longer get the friends and family pack, so what, it's $20.00 and is super easy way to do your taxes. How many accountants charge $20.00 for you, and your friends, and your parents. Give it up, the free ride is over.
2. Audits from the IRS go back 7 years. If I have a new computer in 7 years I won't be able to reprint this years return. So much for the "store my tax info on CD". I'm stuck with Paper as my only record keeping. That removes one of the benefits of using a computer program in the first place.
Re:So What? Audits, that's what. (Score:3, Informative)
Ummm.. You're a little bit off on this. The IRS can only go back three years and audit you. That is unless they suspect you of comitting fraud, then they can go back as far as they damn well please. You're better off keeping copies of your returns indefinitely. The Motley Fool has a nice guide [fool.com] on how long to keep stuff.
Personally, I'd keep both the paper and electronic media.
--zawada
easier to read... (Score:3, Informative)
Here is a printable version [com.com] of the article that contains less spam and is easier to read.
Betcherass its "Real" for me (Score:2, Insightful)
I've used Turbo Tax since 1993. I do the work at home and then come to work and install the software for 1 whole day just to print it out on a laser printer.
Why? I don't trust the water soluble inks in my inkjet at home, and I don't want my personal info on my work computer for any length of time.
And I bet there are lots of people who do the exact same thing as I do.
Re:Betcherass its "Real" for me (Score:2)
If you're doing a 1040-EZ ... (Score:3, Informative)
TurboTax for the Web [quicken.com] will let you electronically file your taxes for free. The catch?? You have to file ONLY the 1040-EZ and make less than $25K, but since that's what I've filed the last 5 years, it's no real problem for me (yeah being a student!). If you want to file a 1040 or 1040A it's something like $10.00. But they will do your state and federal taxes online and submit them electronically.
Why would this matter to /.? Well because for the last 2 years I've used it with netscape on linux with no troubles at all. So now you can do your taxes for free with linux electronically and get a refund in around 2 days.
So don't sit there for hours and do it with the "easy to follow IRS workbook" or load windows up to use a windows only program, or go pay someone far too much money to do it for you, do them online cheaply.
Best way to get around the registration hassle of software is to not use the software that requires you to register it.
Re:If you're doing a 1040-EZ ... (Score:2)
You have to file ONLY the 1040-EZ and make less than $25K, but since that's what I've filed the last 5 years, it's no real problem for me (yeah being a student!).
Last year I used them to file a 1040 for free (had capital gains so I couldn't use the EZ or A). I don't see where it says you have to use a 1040-EZ.
Re:If you're doing a 1040-EZ ... (Score:2)
Do your taxes by hand, yourself. (Score:2)
go with taxcut (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't understand (Score:2, Insightful)
Tax laws change every year. I'd be more then happy to pay a small amount each year for the latest updates. It costs them money to integrate the changes and update the software that I've already bought for $30.
I think they're banking on people reasoning that they would be paying an accountant.
CommentAnticipator (Score:2, Funny)
Best comment on Amazon regarding the matter (Score:5, Funny)
Quality Control?, January 4, 2003
Reviewer: Ex-long time user from Hernando, MS United States
I purchased TurboTax Deluxe for the fourth year in a row this year. When I went to install the program from the CD it turned out to be an AUDIO CD OF MEXICAN MUSIC! Bizarre.
I'd call support on that one (Score:4, Funny)
Feh. The only kind of music I want to hear when doing taxes is the Muzak in the lobby of my CPA. Try taking the TurboTax software packaging to tax court with you and see how much it helps.
Dental work and accounting: two things you should never do by yourself, for yourself.
-B
Turbotax 2002 installs malware called C-Dilla (Score:3, Interesting)
Here [dslreports.com] is a link to a forum talking about C-dilla.
Don't make the same mistake I did and delete a directory called "C:\C_DILLA". I did, and my computer froze upon startup. Apparently C-dilla is a service that requires this directory to be there otherwise it barfs on you.
I didn't know what it was, and thought it might be related to Mozilla (Mozilla, Bugzilla, Chatzilla, etc). I deleted it, and upon reboot, my system froze during startup. After troubleshooting my frozen machine for around 1/2 an hour, the missing directory turned out to be the problem, along with these mysterious services that I didn't remember installing. I guess the service hung while looking for the directory and froze my entire system.
I went to uninstall Turbotax and it doesn't uninstall C-dilla. I asked Intuit Live Chat support how to remove C-dilla and they told me to delete the C_DILLA directory and reboot. I told them what would happen, but they said that's what to do. After I did it, and it froze again, they said there was nothing they could to and to contact my system administrator/vendor to fix the freeze. Thanks.
They have a 60-day return policy. USE IT. Tell all your friends and co-workers not to buy Turbotax. I was a loyal Turbotax purchaser since 1997 and I am now going to switch because I no longer trust them. Why did they install this shit on my computer without telling me, and fuck everything up?
They have completely lost my trust, and there is nothing they can do to get it back, that's for sure.
Thisis no big deal (Score:2)
People are getting yelled at, people are busting their asses to fix this, meanwhile a C student flak is screwing up in the media. No big deal.
This will resolve itself realsoonnow and when it does the corp will make a big fuss to make everyone understand it's ok.
Weird workaround for printing on a second machine. (Score:2, Informative)
However, I did figure out a method that would be basically as good. With a non-activated version you can still fill in your taxes entirely, you just cannot file or print them. So, install the software at home BUT DO NOT ACTIVATE IT. Fill out your taxes entirely. Then when you are done, install and activate on your work machine, and e-file and print from there.
Not quite as convenient as before, but basically the same.
(And as an added bonus, if you want to piss off Intuit and show them the flaw of their ways, then make copies of the CD and give them to all of your coworkers and have them all file their taxes from your computer! I don't even think that could be illegal, since unlike most software, having the CD is not a "right to use", so making a copy of the CD is in essence just a shareware version of the software that a user who wanted to file on their own would still need to pay for, and the software provides them the method internally. Good method of civil disobedience... Let's see who can file the most returns on one bought copy of TurboTax!)
since i have karma to burn.... (Score:2)
We shouldn't have to pay extra to "e-file." (Score:3, Informative)
My county set up electronic renewal of vehicle licensing. It's just a simple web form, nothing fancy, and couldn't have cost much to set up. Yet it's highly effective and they encourage it because it saves them manpower and tax money, not to mention thousands of hours of people waiting in line at the DMV.
There was a movement for this a year or two ago, but Quicken et. al. lobbied against it and offered reduced-cost filing for poor people to appease lawmakers. As a result, we are stuck paying extra to private companies to file tax returns in a way that should save everybody time and money.
1-2-3 (Score:2)
Software headaches bad for industry (Score:3, Informative)
The most frustrating is the powerless feeling it gives a user. People will come to HATE software because of the frustration and agony of not being able to control something they feel they own. This will make consumer less reluctant to throw down $100 or $200 bucks for their next software purchase. Not good. Someone needs to find a better way.
Transcript of Online Support Helps With Questions (Score:2, Informative)
JOhn
You have been connected to G. Cylon.
G. Cylon: Hello John, how may I help you today?
John Peterson: hi, i read an article today on slashdot.org about intuit's product activation for turbo tax. i am a long time customer and i am worried about computer upgrades and my use of turbo tax.
John Peterson: I do not want to pay for the product twice and that is what I am worried about.
G. Cylon: You shouldn't have to pay for the product more than once after it's installed and activated okay on the first computer
John Peterson: ok, lets say I upgrade my computer, which I often do... how is product activation handled there?
John Peterson: I do plan on upgrading my computer within the next month or two, but I also want to start on my taxes ASAP
G. Cylon: Upgrading the computer shouldn't affect product activation unless the harddrive is changed
John Peterson: ok, if there is a dispute can i fax in a receipt of my purchase?
G. Cylon: Can you give me a moment to check it please
John Peterson: thank you
John Peterson: I hope you understand my concern. I am a hardcore computer user and I often change out components of my hardware. In addition, I own my own business and I love how your software makes it easier for me to file my taxes accurately. It used to be a nightmare to compute all the deductions. However, this new product activation has me very worried that my software is not really mine and that I will be forced a "double taxation" on my tax software. If this happens, I can guarantee I will no longer purchase your product. This will be a sad event for me because I love your product, and I have used it for over three years.
John Peterson: I understand the need to reduce piracy, but I'm worried I will be falsely targeted.
G. Cylon: Yeah i know what you mean, but the product shouldn't be affected
G. Cylon: unless for major hardware change
John Peterson: It would make me much more comfortable if I could speak with a product activation specialist to make sure there aren't any loop holes.
G. Cylon: Can you give me a moment please
John Peterson: ok
G. Cylon: only changing hard drives will cause you to be asked to reactivate.
John Peterson: ok, so if i upgrade my hard drive i cannot transfer the license?
G. Cylon: If that should happen,you should just contact us with the original date you installed on the old hard drive and we will be able to get you activated again.
John Peterson: hey, thats great!
John Peterson: now, i would also like the number for an activation specialist so i can confirm this.
John Peterson: the price of the software is usually around $75 so its not something I want to throw away
G. Cylon: I don't have a number for a PA specialist.
John Peterson: ok, i'll look around then
G. Cylon: But that is what our business rules say and you confirmed it with my supervisor
John Peterson: ok
G. Cylon: i've confirmed*
John Peterson: gotcha
John Peterson: Thank you for your time.
G. Cylon: but if there is any problem quote this case id *******
John Peterson: Thank you once again. Take care.
G. Cylon: I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for visiting our TurboTax Support Chat.
Not entirely true... (Score:3, Informative)
This is not what the article said. The original installer only has to hang on to the key and activation code and they can reinstall it on a new PC. It may sound like a pain in the ass but you can just keep this info with your tax records that you have to keep anyway.
I guess people are just pissed they can't split the cost of one copy of the program with their friends and family anymore.
Stupid question here. (Score:3, Insightful)
If the IRS gets all of this information, (and it does , it's used to doublecheck your return) why do we even HAVE the other half of this industry?
IMHO, you ought be able to log into the IRS website, it should say 'We have this and this and this in your records, you should owe X'
At which point _you_ could add: "But I have this and this extenuating circumstance."
The IRS would then recalculate and your income tax fileing would consist of ONLY those things that are different and unusual, with the assumption that since you didn't change any earnings info, you must agree with what the IRS has.
If my HR dude enters my W-2 info once. And his software sends it to the IRS, why do _I_ have to rekey it each time? Why do I need to rekey the numbers AT ALL?
Re:Stupid question here. (Score:3, Informative)
This page from Intuit spells it out clearly (Score:4, Informative)
Do I need to activate TurboTax again if I reinstall the program? Whether or not you need to reactivate TurboTax (that is, purchase an additional product license) depends upon your particular situation:
If you reinstall TurboTax to the same hard disk that it was previously activated on, you do not need to activate it again.
If you install TurboTax on another computer, you need to activate it again only if you want to print or electronically file your tax return from that computer.
Example: You activated TurboTax on your home computer and attempt to electronically file your tax return, but for some reason you start to experience problems with your Internet connection. The next day, you install TurboTax on your computer at work, along with a copy of your tax file. In order to electronically file your tax return from your work computer, you must activate TurboTax on your work computer. Note: If you need to reinstall an activated copy of TurboTax on another computer because of a hard disk failure, or if you are reinstalling an activated copy of TurboTax on a newly purchased computer or hard disk, please contact a live agent to obtain a second activation code.
If you install TurboTax on another computer without activating it, you can make changes to your tax return using the EasyStep Interview, but you will not be able to print, electronically file, use the Forms Method, view tax forms, or save your tax file as a .pdf file from that computer.
Example: After activating TurboTax, you electronically file your tax return and print copies of the return for your records. Shortly thereafter, you replace your original computer with a new one. You install TurboTax on the new computer in case you need to refer to your 2002 tax file, but you do not intend to electronically file or print your return again. In this case, you do not need to activate TurboTax on your new computer. Product Activation lets you print or electronically file tax returns from any computer that TurboTax is activated on; it does not prevent installing the program on another computer.
Spyware (Score:4, Interesting)
Gator for example claims millions of "satisfied customers" - in my experience they have millions of victims who don't know how the crap got into their computers in the first place and no clue as to how to remove it. But I guess that's a valid "installed base".
As for C-Dilla, I don't think it's spyware (not in the classic definition anyway), but regardless of that TurboTax is no longer welcome on my computer, and I happen to be a 5 year satisfied user. There's absolutely no fucking way I'm going to live with a resident executable living in my system hooking processes to see if they are "protected". Intuit can smooch my bootay. I'm going with TaxCut for 2002.
I hope the company rents a clue from this, and I hope their sales fall through the basement and they fix it for 2003. If they do, I'll buy it again.
It's not just activation. It contains spyware. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, the activation is annoying, and I would live with that. But I'm not getting TurboTax for this reason.
From the article:
Customers are also complaining about Safecast, the Macrovision security software Intuit uses to verify activation numbers. Reports have surfaced in discussion groups and some news sites classifying Safecast--also known as C-Dilla for the company that provided the technology to Macrovision--as "spyware," programs surreptitiously installed on a PC that track and report how the PC is used. Spyware programs such as Gator and Brilliant Digital have prompted growing concern among PC users.
My experience says Intuit dropped the ball. (Score:4, Informative)
Client has Quickbooks 6.0. It must be about 4 years old, or so. It is cumbersome and annoying to update the Tax table/rate codes. They use it for payroll, accounts recievable, accounts payable. Though it is a family business, it is broken into several files for manage-ability. (Legally) They have several companies set up-- and some companies are seasonal. (e.g. Yard work). From what I understand, there are federal and state tax advantages, if you have several small companies that work together. Anyway, there are about 3 employees that manage the books for 15 or so company files.
Trouble: When we upgraded from QB6.0 to QB2003, the "upgrade" did not count QB6.0 as valid. We were on hold for over 90 minutes, and finally got through to a rep, that told us we had to fax them a recipt for the QB2003 as well as a recipt for the QB6.0 from 4 years ago. (We had QB6.0 serial numbers, correspondence, etc, no good. The client had been a quicken gold support (or whatever) member for the past 4 years, up until about 6 months prior to the upgrade. They could find no trace of us in the system, and only a recipt for QB6.0 would do. They claimed they couldn't find us even though they'd mailed tax table updates a few months prior as well as a "you must upgrade to QB2002 right now because we no longer support 6.0" -- with QB2003 due out soon we decided to wait the 4 (or so) months to get the newest version. They were told QB6.0 would count for the QB2003 upgrade when they explicitly asked (at my instruction). Anyway, about 4 days later they were able to activate qb2003 with a replacement keycode, but only after faxing them both the recipts, cover of the manual and serial numbers. Did I mention we bought directly from the intuit website? As if that wasn't enough, a few days later they went to do payroll. It wouldn't let them until it went online and updated-- which it could not do because it could not verify subscription status. When done manually, after being on hold for 108 minutes, the rep said it was good for only one company file. My client would have to pay per-company. I think the "accountant edition" might side step this somehow, but it was difficult getting straight answers. We chatted with a rep on the website as well as phoned in months prior and went over the situation in detail. We ordered what they recommended. We've also discovered some features they had in QB6.0, though rudimentary, are pay-for in QB2003. It has been an extremely painful upgrade.
Though this client only had 4 QB computers, this was probably the most painful upgrade ever. The other experiences I've had with intuit proably aren't this bad, but they're not exactly great either.
Perfect opportunity for Linux ... (Score:3, Insightful)
from the FAQ (Score:3, Funny)
How does this benefit me?
With product activation, Intuit can provide faster, more efficient support for TurboTax customers. Without technology to ensure compliance with our License Agreement, TurboTax customers who legitimately purchase the product wait longer for support because of increased contacts from users seeking support for unlicensed software.
eh? Thousands of users calling support to deal with product activation issues are going to make it easier for me to get support?
If you multiboot -- beware! (Score:5, Interesting)
[amazon posting starts here]
I won't reiterate many of the points made by other reviewers on amazon -- I'll just summarize the reviews as "good software, but the copy protection sucks".
I had the copy protection suck more than most. I dual boot WindowsXP and Linux, using the "GRUB" bootloader (which is currently used now by, among others, RedHat linux), and installing TurboTax 2002 made my entire computer unbootable! The activation code writes some information to the front of the harddrive (before the first partition), which overwrote my bootloader, which was already living there! (This may happen with other bootloaders as well... I've only tested with the one).
And fixing my system so it would boot again (by reinstalling the bootloader) produced a copy of TurboTax that a) thought it wasn't activated, and b) Thought that my productid had already been used "by another computer", so couldn't be re-activated.
Intuit did eventually give me another product ID that worked, after I spent several hours trying to explain the problem to tech support, and rebooting time and time again as the reps had me uninstall, reinstall, install in safe mode, install while standing on my head...
The software itself is OK (Though I still wish it could import from Quicken based on the "class" of the transactions), but I have the strong opinion that installing tax software should not render my computer unbootable!
Re:Mac version (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:More importantly.... (Score:4, Funny)
Fight the Power (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The General Consumer has had Enough (Score:2)
This has been gone for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time. Read the Lawyer-ist bits that come with your software. You don't own the software, just a license to use. One that's usually revokable at various discretions of the software publisher.
Re:Turbotax/Quicken/Intuit troubles.. (Score:2)
The problem is, it'll take federal involvemnt to treat rebate errors as the small-scale frauds that they are, and seriously slap those who send false rejections with fines and penalites that make sure they become very sure about their rejections before they send them.
I once got rejected on a rebate for a compressed air blower product because I had sent in a hand written index card with the UPC number, as per the instructions, instead of sending the actual UPC which every other item on the rebate form required. Why was canned air the exception? Because the UPC was printed on the can itself, and cutting that can open is not a safe activity.
Re:People are dumb.... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Just give me a damn Flat Tax. YES! flattax.gov (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The US tax code could be fixed... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, since these programs are already going broke, reducing the premiums paid by everyone and, thus, the money paid into the system is a stupid idea - unless want you really want is to close these programs altogether and give people a choice about what they want to do (which is a good idea, but probably very unpopular among most voters - especially those seniors that vote by the truckloads)