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Microsoft

World's First XP System Sold 371

Posted by Hemos from the begin-the-begin dept.
A reader writes "New zealands largest OEM PC Manufacturer, The PC Company sold the worlds first Windows XP system. Details can be found at this article on NZoom" And so, it begins.
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World's First XP System Sold More

World's First XP System Sold

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  • What??? (Score:4, Funny)

    by EGSonikku ( 519478 ) <petersen DOT mobile AT gmail DOT com> on Monday September 24, 2001 @04:16AM (#2340139)
    What do you mean first XP system? Iv'e been running XP for several wee- err, first *sold* XP system. Never Mind.

    (The above is a complete falsity contrived to humor readers, any resemblence to actual people, places, or events is purely coincidental)

    .

  • Shipping already? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by reverius ( 471142 )
    Is Windows XP shipping already, or is it only starting to ship on new computers now? Can it be bought in stores?

  • Lack of imagination (Score:3, Funny)

    by alnapp ( 321260 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @04:18AM (#2340147) Homepage
    Well, I suppose that if your imagination only runs to the extent of calling a PC company "The PC Company" its not suprising you'll be first in line for Mr Gate's latest.
  • Now, besides the fact that this is one of the more useless pieces of news posted to Slashdot, it also happens to be a great strategy. By posting story links to PC manufacturers who sell PC's with Windows XP pre-loaded, we can effectively shut-down their online sales services to prevent customers from buying said systems. Great way to beat MS! :)

  • All Black (Score:2, Troll)

    by visualight ( 468005 )
    All Black Doug-Howlett became The PC Company's first customer, leaving the Auckland showroom at one minute after midnight with a brand new, Windows XP-ready machine.


    Does that mean Doug-Howlett's a black guy? I've never heard "all black" before. If that's what it means, I think it's funny the NZ press thinks that bit of info important enough to include. Or does it mean something else?

    • Re:All Black (Score:4, Informative)

      by nagora ( 177841 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @04:35AM (#2340176)
      It means he plays Rugby for the national team, who play in black shorts, boots, socks, and shirts, and are generally referred to as "The All Blacks".

      TWW

    • Re:All Black (Score:5, Informative)

      by bfree ( 113420 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @04:39AM (#2340184)

      Congratulations, you have passed slashdot's "you are a dumb insular American test"! Just kidding :-)

      While Americans ignore most of the worlds sport and simply invent their own to have American World Champions, many countries play the same sports! This reference to "All Black" refers to the New Zealand Rugby Union team who are historically one of the most respected and best forces in Rugby. They are called All Blacks as their strip is all black! The press are mentioning this as it was obviously a publicity stunt by The PC Company to ensure greter coverage in their native NZ (and in fact it is a good enough gimmic to probably get some attention outside NZ). A quick look at a google search [google.com] and this page [203.89.192.218] also suggests Mr. Howlett might have been chosen as "the fastest man in NZ rugby". I guess we won't really know unless someone can show us the material The PC Company are putting out.

      • It also means he can do a Maori war-chant at the start of the game, and behead the players of the losing team. :)
      • many countries play the same sports!

        Yeah, I played on my high school's cricket team, and we got our asses handed to us by an team from India (okay, so they were also the equivelent of a university team, so I don't feel horrible).

        America's a pretty big place. Outside of the big few televised sports, we have plenty of local sports as well, several being "world sports". My older brother played la crosse and rugby. I did wrestling, golf and cricket. (Jack Nicholas's kids went to my high school, and he spent a few practices each year with the team.. not that it helped my game.)

        Congratulations, you have passed Slashdot's "you believe Americans are as they appear in their pop media test"! Just serious. :-P Applying the same logic, Ozzies (which are Australians *and* people from New Zealand) live in the middle of a desert (no cities) and drink beer all night after hunting crocodiles all day (all "you" have sent us are Max Max, Crocodile Dundee, Reckless Kelly and Steve Erwin, so... ). (And assuming NZ and Australia are the same country is a bit like assuming all of America is the same. We're the United States, and many states are damn proud of their individual identity.)

        --
        Evan

        • Most importantly it was a joke dude :-)

          More seriously, every person is a unique individual and while certain predispositions (such as a propensity to post on slashdot) may incline that group to be more likely to have a certain view I strongly believe that no conclusions can ever be drawn about the individual. However when it comes to slashdot, a large percentage of the posters are American and when it comes to Americans a large percentage of them are very insular (be they in slashdot, media or just my humble experiences of all the Americans I have met ... and they were the ones who weren't in the states at the time!). Americans are tarred by the brush of the media in such a way that the individuality you love of the different states is washed away in the corporate melee to win the lowest common denominator market. In my country of Europe (hehe) the divisions of language are protecting the Sky's [sky.com] of this world from blending us into one culture.

          It was a joke, and one born of sarcasm, for the only things I probably dislike about slashdot (trolls, moderation etc. are all imperfect but I don't care). And finally I play cricket [pembrokecricket.com] too, in Ireland!

    • Re:All Black (Score:2, Interesting)

      by SoupIsGoodFood_42 ( 521389 )
      All Blacks = NZ rugby team
      All Whites = NZ Soccer team
      Tall Blacks = NZ Basketball team
      Black Caps = NZ Cricket team

      You get the picture...
      Any sport team in NZ will probably have either 'black' or 'all' in the name.

    • Does that mean Doug-Howlett's a black guy? I've never heard "all black" before. If that's what it means, I think it's funny the NZ press thinks that bit of info important enough to include. Or does it mean something else?

      (sigh) The New Zealand national rugby team is called the "all blacks" mainly because their uniform is - get this - all black.

      This was modded up for being insightful? WTF?

  • 2hrs later .. (Score:5, Funny)

    by taniwha ( 70410 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @04:30AM (#2340165) Homepage Journal
    M$ NZ gets its first XP tech support cal after the user added a new harddrive and XP told them they'd have to get permission from M$ before they continued ... and so it begins ...

  • Is it only me then? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Troed ( 102527 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @04:33AM (#2340173) Homepage Journal
    ... that can't understand why I should upgrade from Win2K to Windows XP? I admit to not being a Microsoft-follower, but so far I've completely failed to see what's so special about XP? It's got a new ugly look, that I've seen, but is there anything else?


    I'm actually serious - anyone? :)

    • At least the transition between Mac OS 9 and OS X was significant. I find it really lame that microsoft keeps releasing the same crap just so that people are pressured to buy an upgrade. Sure, maybe XP is all candy coated with a cooler gui, but nothing much has changed except for the fact that normal users have access to raw network sockets [grc.com].

      Microsoft claims that XP has better memory protection, better threading... I'm just waiting to see if any of this is true, or if XP has the same problems as 2k.

      • Re:Is it only me then? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Osty ( 16825 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @05:05AM (#2340231)

        nothing much has changed except for the fact that normal users have access to raw network sockets.

        Uh ... you'd be correct about the raw sockets if the original poster had mentioned Win9x/ME, but since he asked about upgrading from Win2k, that's a non-issue -- NT has always had raw sockets.


        Anyway, aside from the obvious GUI enhancements (which can easily be disabled by simply choosing to use the Classic theme, which also has the property of not really being a theme, and so doesn't use the resources other themes would), there are other niceties, like fast user switching (logout or switch to another user, but let your current user's applications continue to run), enhanced Terminal Services (aka, Remote Desktop), advanced video and imaging support built in, built-in firewalling (Win2k had packet filtering capabilities, but needed code to take advantage of that), enhanced file system encryption, better app compatibility (nice to have for those games that expect a user to be running win9x), better group policies, Cleartype (if he's using a laptop or LCD display), and more. Check out this feature chart [microsoft.com] for a better idea of what XP has that 2K doesn't.

        • Oki, thanks. The only reason for me to upgrade would thus be to replace the functionality I have now from other vendors with Microsoft tools instead :)


          I use:



          (I assume there are 3rd party products available since before to do the other stuff you mention - I don't need them. I also have no clue what that advanced imaging stuff is .. a replacement for ACDSee?)


          ... and all this boils down to one thing: Microsoft uses the dominance of their operating system to push their own products above 3rd party developers. Wasn't this what the DOJ were going to stop?

        • I agree. Although I have found XP less reliable, the added GUI benefits have more than doubled my speed in using the machine. It's a tradeoff.
      • Here's some code for you to run:

        int main(int argc, char* argv[])
        {
        SOCKET s;

        WSADATA wsadata;
        WSAStartup(MAKEWORD(2,2), &wsadata);

        s = WSASocket(AF_INET, SOCK_RAW, IPPROTO_IP, NULL, 0, 0);
        printf("%d\n", s);

        SOCKADDR from;
        int fromlen = sizeof(from);

        struct sockaddr_in to;

        ZeroMemory(&from, sizeof(from));
        ZeroMemory(&to, sizeof(from));

        char buf[4096];

        to.sin_family = AF_INET;
        to.sin_addr.S_un.S_addr = 0x0100007F;
        to.sin_port = 0;

        int sb = sendto(s, buf, 0, 0, (SOCKADDR *)&to, sizeof(to));
        DWORD sbe = GetLastError();

        int cb = recvfrom(s, buf, sizeof(buf), 0, &from, &fromlen);
        DWORD cbe = GetLastError();

        printf("%d, %d\n", sb, cb);
        printf("%d, %d\n", sbe, cbe);
        closesocket(s);

        scanf("\n");
        }

        When you run as an admin, it works. When you run as a non-admin you get an error (EACCESS) trying to send or receive from the raw socket.

        To put it simply, GRC is lying to you for the purposes of selling his own products and you got suckered. The rules for raw sockets are exactly the same as on Win2k and Linux - you gotta be root.
    • It has all-new licencing clauses, entitling them to your first-born child, your bank accounts, and any money you might make when using XP. :)


      Seriously, with GWB's war on terror, I'm not surprised they released the OS in New Zealand first.


      AFAIK, there's really very little in XP that you can't get by marauding Microsoft's official and unofficial upgrades, patches and other assorted manglings. Though I suggest checking the EULA for any "Unlicenced Marauding" clause.

    • I'm actually serious - anyone?

      No, if you were "actually serious," you wouldn't ask why you should upgrade your copy of Windows on Slashdot...

  • Windows in not sucking shocker. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Fweeky ( 41046 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @04:44AM (#2340194) Homepage
    XP, basically being a polished 2k, is nice and stable - 12 days playing games, installing crap, uninstalling crap, hibernating almost every night and generally Doing Stuff isn't bad.

    I finally rebooted it when it took a worryingly long time to hibernate (this, to the uninitiated, involves writing all memory out to disk, suspending drivers etc so the system can come back up in it's original state) - which I think's fair enough, seeing as it's quite a large task to ask any OS to do.

    XP also happens to boot very fast.. in fact, it's faster than coming out of hibernation here, and certainly comparible to an equivilent Unix system.

    Most of the new GUI stuff's a bit crap, but you can turn it all off with ease. The KLIK[tm] support for networking's quite nice, with bridging, NAT etc available with a few mouseclicks. It even sets up a firewall when you set up networking, and (*shock* *horror*), it's actually quite good.

    It performs at least as well as 2k, with tweaks in most of the right places, hence making it Quite Good[tm]. And it runs vim, UT, Q3 and CS - what more could you ask for? :)
    • XP also happens to boot very fast.. in fact, it's faster than coming out of hibernation here, and certainly comparible to an equivilent Unix system.

      My Millennium system boots in about a minute, with a bunch of slow-loaders like Norton and the Office Shortcut Bar, and LILO just past the BIOS level. How fast are you talking?

      It performs at least as well as 2k, with tweaks in most of the right places, hence making it Quite Good[tm]. And it runs vim, UT, Q3 and CS - what more could you ask for? :)

      ::pretends to think:: Oh...I could ask to be able to USE my computer freely, heh, since I've paid for it. ;)

      I've always been a faithful part of the MS fold before. But all this crap I read about with not being able to copy ripped MP3's to other computers, and problems intercepting audio streams at the hardware levels...sheesh.

      I'll reserve my judgement until I actually get my hands on a copy and try it out. After all, I got most of my information on that topic from the print media, and you *know* how reliable they are.

      However, I will say that if it's relatively crash-free, I may indeed upgrade. After six months of dealing with Millennium, I'm ready for a change...

      (Myself) "Yeah, I want you to transfer a file, like."
      (Millennium) "Ohh man, I'm not sure I can do this. This looks hard."
      (Myself) "No, it's not that hard, it's a twenty-kb Word document."
      (Millennium) "You're scaring me! MEESTER GATESSSS! HELP!" ::blue screen of death appears::
      (Myself) ::resists temptation to hit a perfectly good laptop with a hammer::

      And that's not even starting in on the fact I had to format and reinstall the day after I got my computer cos it loaded wrong at the factory...

      But this is turning into a Millennium diatribe. Suffice it to say that the next OS is either something more stable from MS, or *nix. And I even loaded RH 7.0 in frustration one day after a particularly high number of BSODs. ;)
      • "::pretends to think:: Oh...I could ask to be able to USE my computer freely, heh, since I've paid for it. ;)"

        No, no, no! You're using the old-style think, where you actually purchase the product.

        You've just gotta get yourself into the new-style think, where you are purchasing a license to use the product.

        Sort of like with leased cars, okay? You lease the car, and the car dealer then restricts where you can park the ca.... waittasec.

        Okay, then, sort of like with a rental Bobcat loader, okay? You rent the loader, and the rental company then restricts what you can loa... um. Hold on...

        I've got it! It's like hiring a carpet cleaning service, okay? You hire the guy to clean your carpets, and he decides which carpets he's gonna clea... oh.

        Hmmmm.

        This new-think software licensing thing is strange shit, eh?
    • Personally, I would ask for an OS that I was allowed to install on more than 1 machine without having to pay 1/4 the cost of the hardware that it's going to run on. I would ask for an OS that I don't have to call up some company and get some key in order to install. I would ask for an OS that I can install on a new machine that I build myself without having to buy another license. I would ask for an OS that doesn't intentionally break old software and ODBC drivers that my company needs to operate. I would ask for an OS that I don't have to purchase from a company that has a reputation for doing audits that cost large companies millions of dollars and weeks of wasted time. I would ask for an OS where ALL the APIs are published so I am on even footing when writing competing software. I would ask for an OS that isn't developed by a company that uses licensing terms to try to silence criticism of said company. I would ask for an OS with development tools that are affordable for me to use for hobby programming. I would ask for an OS NOT made by a company that puts restrictions on what type of software/licensing terms are acceptable to develop with their software. I would ask for an OS that doesn't limit, by licensing terms, how many clients I am allowed to deal with at a time, etc.

      Personally, I would as for an OS that isn't Windows XP.

    • It even sets up a firewall when you set up networking, and (*shock* *horror*), it's actually quite good.

      It's not a firewall. It is merely a packet filter.
      It is not a replacement for proper host-based firewall code or a stand-alone firewall unit.
    • I don't know if I'd call WinXP "a polished Windows 2000". More like "Windows 2000 with a lot of shiney plastic tacked on." In fact, I'm sure that if there was a software way of doing it, Windows XP would turn your machine casing translucent.

      I gave it a whirl a while ago and gave up on it for one reason - drivers.

      Sure, it autodetected my GeForce2GTS, and it worked fine - to a degree. No TVOUT and no Video Capture support. The maker of the card (ASUS) haven't released a WinXP driver yet. Installing the Win2K drivers made the machine hang on boot (worth a try though).

      Also, it detected my SBLive. And that played the System Beeps very well. However, it totally chokes on anything complicated, like games. Max Payne turned into Max Hedrom ("It's P-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-payne!"). No games were actually playable, and the graphics seemd strained, too.

      To be fair, Windows 2000 has the exact same problems on my machine, even with the Official Drivers installed, which may be a worse problem than it sounds like.

      It's back to WinME for my Gaming Needs, and Win98SE for my Video Capture needs. Trible-boot, the only way to go.
      • Sure, it autodetected my GeForce2GTS...


        The video card drivers that come with Windows (any version) don't enable any advanced features, which is par for the course. NVIDIA has released new DetonatorXP drivers [nvidia.com] that, at least on my Hercules GF2 Pro/Win 2000 combo, supported TV Out. I don't know if they'll handle vidcap on your ASUS card or not.

        Also, it detected my SBLive...


        Well, there's your problem. SBLive just doesn't get along with Windows 2000. I have yet to find a driver that doesn't suck. There's a new release from Creative [soundblaster.com] that, among other things, enables AC-3 passthrough. Hopefully, they'll be more stable than the current set, which cost me a damn fine war scepter for my paladin. (A pox on Diablo II's waypoints!)

  • Kinda a FYI (Score:5, Informative)

    by loraksus ( 171574 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @04:51AM (#2340209) Homepage
    MS has been giving out free copies of XP final, full retail, pro edition to pretty much every salesperson in computer stores across north america (i.e. the warez versions are the iso's of these discs). They had a fairly hot chick do the demonstration too, hell, I admit I'm shallow.
    MS also gave a crapload of stuff about why you should sell XP to your customers, etc, etc.

    And yeah, MS is at the very least bold in some of the things they do.
    How about this - before you log in, XP tells you whether you have passport mail waiting.
    Buy music = goto microsoft music, digital pictures -> MS.
    Allow tech support (or others) remote control of your PC? You have to be using messenger (or at least, that is what is built in) This ought to be fun when an exploit is discovered. Full system takeover is possible.
    Especially optimized for P4 (MS and intel, sitting in a tree, k.i.s.s.i.n.g ...)
    No fucking AOL (which, as a DSL tech support agent is music to my ears)
    Built in firewall (shitty one though)
    Built in ICS
    Built in passport games...
    No apparant way to remove messenger.
    The happy registration (which has already been cracked quite completely)

    Essentially what MS is doing is creating a computer software system (aka turnkey solution) in a box. Joe user won't have to buy anything else for his pc if he buys xp. I'm sure a lot of third party vendors are going to be pissed because they won't have a market for their products, but then again, geeks never bitched when MS included undelete w/MS Dos 5.

    On the upside,
    MS finally got rid of netbeui, so your network file transfers won't be slow as shit over the network.
    MS made the gui skinnable (almost exactly like windows blinds)
    hibernate ACTUALLY WORKS (third times a charm)
    it seems to actually be running stable (uptime 1 month, with my parents on it, which means _alot_, i.e. the system has not gone down since I installed it on an overclocked celeron box),
    added a change user function, which allows the system
    added the ability to "telnet" in and logon using the remote machines cpu power, ala X-Windows. Essentially terminal services on every machine.

    It looks fischer price, and I hate to say it, but MS might of have done what they promised to do when they release Windows 95. The price is insane though, $300US for full pro edition!!!!!

    Oh. If you work in a computer store and want a free (legal) copy, florida (24,25,26), texas (24, colorado(15),az(24), still have seminars going. Check
    http://www.microsoft.com/retail/live/
    though its kinda late. Proof of employment can be a tshirt w/ a name badge. See the evil for yourself.

    Well, gnight.
    • Unbelievable how they have the audacity to bundle anything and everything, which is the same shinanigans that got them into hot water before. Scary thing is though, that everyone wants to give the ailing economy a little boost, and since XP might do just that (at least for computers) no one will complain.

      Should a company's connection to the economy make it legally untouchable?

      Should the Law's position change completely because a new administration is in place?

      If Big Money lobbyists make the decisions, the answer is "yes" to both.

    • Re:Kinda a FYI (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      &gt hey had a fairly hot chick do the demonstration too

      Yes, I'm shallow too, Got any pics?
    • hibernate ACTUALLY WORKS (third times a charm)

      That's funny, hibernate ACTUALLY WORKS on my Win2k box every night. I haven't actually shut it down in weeks (though I'm thinking of rebooting to get rid of a systray icon that won't go away...can probably just log off and back on, though). And it ACTUALLY WORKS just the same for the two other people I personally know who run 2k.

      So did you mean it actually works WITH YOUR HARDWARE, or am I missing something?

      • The newer Compaq's, HP's, Dells fucking die (i.e. reboot in command mode, erase files to get windows up, etc, etc.) with hibernate.
        I've never had luck with the damn thing, until xp.
        As always, results may of have varied.

    • Re:Kinda a FYI (Score:2, Informative)

      by ShoeHead ( 40158 )
      The skinning *is* a new form of windowblinds, it's quite easy to remove windows messenger, and the firewall is just that--a firewall.

      In addition Fast User Switching rocks, the desktop backgrounds are really cool, and it includes *built-in* support for burning CD's and watching DVD's. I didn't even have to install EasyCD. This means WMPlayer is very bloated, though, and has actually crashed numerous times on me. Weird enough, the OS never admits it is "Not Responding" and always makes me end other tasks first.

      You can install NetBeui if you want, and there is a QoS protocol (which I don't understand...) that lags you should you play Starcraft and/or Counterstrike. I disabled it. Network browsing seems to be really slow--it takes forever to find computers just in your workgroup, and longer to access their files.

      Remote Control is a good thing so you can fix your parents' computer in half to a quarter of the time it normally takes. The windows log in screen is tight, it has little squares for each user, which you click before logging in. It also tells you how much new email, and how many programs each user has. Every program is *not* run as root--there is a quite extensive set of permissions and groups settings that disallows stuff like that. I have my computer configured where guests (dorm mates) can long on with no password, and only store stuff in certain places and run certain programs.

      Furthermore, worms are less of a problem on the new Outlook as a) you can get software to scan email out and in (Norton), and b) Outlook is very *very* cautious now about attachments. My friend sent a stupid forward to me, with a .eml attached, and Outlook wouldn't even let me open it at first.

      Counterstrike is actually faster for me than it used to be (well, before 1.3 upgrade) This was the major part of my decision to delete my dual boot and keep the spare harddrive soley as backup. I have only found one program (suite) to be incompatible--the Lotus Smartsuite 97, which is very ugly and probably uses alot of hacks--finally broke. It won't run even in compatibility mode. I broke down and borrowed Word from my brother. Word 97 won't use my scroll mouse, but at least it can read the files.

      Hibernate stores a file (semi-permanently) on your HDD of the size of your RAM. It's very fast, and very cool, but does not constitute a reboot, so you won't get any medicinal uses out of it. The task manager is cooler than 2k, it has a few improvements to the graphs, and processes are listed by owner (Fast user switching is probably the reason why) Also, the computer does not freeze when you pull up the Task manager--something which at times I am grateful for and at times I hate with a passion.

      Search is disgracefully slow, partly because it includes all the cabs in the search, and there is a stupid animated dog that runs you through search the first time you run it (very stupid). Search via IE no longer has to use MSN, you can choose google, etc, though I still prefer the google toolbar.

      I probably won't buy Pro (unless I end up building a dual system) but I will *definitely* get the home.
  • XP system sold

    t-minus 19 minutes: First sold XP system booted.
    -19.5: First annoying XP nag message to open a Passport account
    -20: First XP "MSN Network" desktop icon deleted
    -25: First realization by first XP system buyer that most of his old system settings won't transfer.
    -26: First XP-inspired burst of profanity.
    -28: Attempt to use legacy scanner results in crash and second XP-inspired burst of profanity.
    -30: First XP-related bug report files.

    And so it begins!
  • With XP out you won't get Win98 even by accident now. Even now it was hard to get as OEM Win98. But now? And no, ME.2k or XP are NOT good enough since they don't run even some of the M$'s own games, not even talking about the other ISV. I was trying to get a decent notebook with W98 preinstalled, no chance whatsoever.

  • This does matter- because now, Microsoft will never reach any sort of settlement or back off the slightest amount. To them, now that XP has started to ship and sell, they will try to _expand_ their behavior, at the same time as the new judge is trying to get a handle on them and a sense of what they are.

    This is a recipe for total hubris on Microsoft's part, and a nasty defeat for them. I suspect it's better that they don't compromise or parley, because they lie anyway so why should we want them to be striking bargains? Let them be slapped down in full hubris. They can't be cured or moderated or reasoned with. I'm sure this judge has seen completely recidivist cases before.

  • It will be fun to see how the worm-writing people will use XP. It could be the decline of m$ in the business market [nwfusion.com].

    Interesting also to see how the ISPs will react to DOS attacks [infoworld.com].

    "Windows XP runs EVERYTHING at root, which means every program (and even the trojans hidden within that program) has full access to all Windows services, including more advanced network services than ever before. Where Windows ME is generally limited to UDP- and ICMP-flooding, for example, Windows XP can jump straight to the main event -- http flooding aat port 80. "Cringely [pbs.org]

    "If Windows ME is a gun, Windows XP is a loaded gun.", Cringely [pbs.org]

    • Re:New worms coming in the next years ... (Score:4, Informative)

      by purplemonkeydan ( 214160 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @06:58AM (#2340361)
      Windows XP runs EVERYTHING at root, which means every program (and even the trojans hidden within that program) has full access to all Windows services

      Pigs arse everything runs as root. When you create a new user, it asks you whether the user is a admin or regular user. Regular users are NOT root.

      And for more control, you can fire up the Users and Groups MMC, and put users in appropriate groups, and set appropriate permissions.

      Who the hell is this Cringely dolt?
      • The users created when XP installed are automatically "root." And no, at install time, you are not given the option of making them "regular" users.

        (Specifically, it lists five text fields into which usernames are entered - these users do not get passwords unless you change the way in which login is handled. This is for the Windows XP Professional install, and not Home Edition - Home Edition probably does the same thing, though. I haven't really found there to be a big difference between Home Edition and Professional. (Although admittably this was RC2, but feature changes were not slated at that point, so it probably holds true with the release builds.))

        Which probably means that unless the OEMs take action to make sure Joe Consumer's XP box doesn't create Administrator (root) accounts when they first start up their new PC, the average consumer will be running every program as root.

        • Hmm ... I skipped that part when I installed, so I'll take your word for it.

          However, I don't think that's an overly big problem. If there are kids in the house, they will likely want to change their icon that appears on the login screen, and the Start panel.

          To do this, you have to go to the Users control panel, where the user type selector is pretty easy to get to from there.

          Obviously, not everyone is going to see this, but the smarter Joe Consumer's (not typical computer user, but consumers with a slightly above average intelligence, which isn't saying much :P) should pick it up, as it's on the screen after changing the icon.
    • You forgot to quote the very next paragraph from Cringley's article.

      I am far from the first person to write about this problem. You can find it explained in excruciating detail by my old friend Steve Gibson of Gibson Research. That link, as always, is behind the "I like it" button on the bottom of this page.

      Gibson has already been called to the carpet numerous times over this.

      • "Gibson has already been called to the carpet numerous times over this."

        The phrase is "called on the carpet".

        A lot of people have disagreed with Gibson on this, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that they are particularly smarter or more knowledgeable in the area than he is.

    • from the nwfusion article, evidence of ignorance making our life miserable:
      Few, if any, business desktop machines are shared these days - so this "feature" will simply get in the way.

      But the scariest thing I heard was that XP allows users to, in essence, set up their own virtual private network (VPN) between any two XP users anywhere in the world. According to IDG News Service reporter Ashlee Vance, the user "can permit a friend to see his screen via a chat-type protocol and even run programs from the original user's machine." Microsoft will publish a way, and provide the tools, for one PC to run software from another - and take over control of another machine.

      Until people like this are taught the reasons for and security implications of user accounts, the world will be rife with viruses and worms. For those who may not know better, unprivalidged user accounts are made so that processes started by them can not alter or remove system files. Malicious programs, intitated by accident, are contained and can be eliminated. Nothing is fool proof but systems that ignore such basic concepts are naked. The "user experience" can be significantly enhanced by truely portable settings, but the primary reason for such stuff is security. The only reason the author is afraid is beacuse of M$'s record of poor implimentation.

      M$'s record is giving the rest of us a bad name too. It's amazing that M$ does not impliment real user accounts. It's negligence. Their users are becoming increasingly distrustful and will never learn better. Just listen to that poor idiot demanding inferior software! The reach out starts with you and me.

  • XP (Score:2)

    by roguerez ( 319598 )
    XP rocks!

    It's the best Windows up to now, strenthening on point where Windows was not that good (remote access improved with Terminal Services, stability in 9x/ME series improved with NT-based kernel, etc) and where it was pretty good (a bit less memory use and a bit faster than W2K when using the Classic interface, ClearType fonts rock on my Sony picturebook).

    Some minor stuff I don't like that much: Internet time synchronizing can only be switched on or off, and a server can be defined. You can not, however, define the interval with which it updates. This is hardcoded at once every week, braindead of course..

    Still wouldn't use it for 'standard' services like HTTP, SMTP, POP3, etc etc etc, my FreeBSD station handles that much too well. That said, for a desktop operating system, presenting Internet Explorer, Office, Visio, WinAMP, Explorer and X-Win32 for remote UNIX access, it's a very good solution for my purposes.

    • I tend to agree (Score:2, Interesting)

      by BenHmm ( 90784 )
      It pains me say this, but you're right. I've been using XP betas for the past few months, and it does, as you say, rock.

      Sure, I wouldn't use it for serving anything, and I rely on my linux machines for perl and the like, but for a desktop system, with an x-term and ssh, XP is the business. I'm on about a week uptime right now, and that's only because I added a second graphics card (dual monitor support is also v.v.g by the way) and it is as solid as any linux gui desktop. perhaps more so. It's full of very neat things, that only appear after you use it for a bit, that you soon learn to love.

      Annoying, but true.

      I may now have to go and wash my mouth out.

  • why xp? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by motherhead ( 344331 )
    What exactly is an "on topic" post to this story?

    "It shipped?? On computers?? Were they in Boxes?? Did anyone get a good look at the Hologram??"...

    So instead I am going to ask some humble questions since I really haven't been following the XP thing as closely as perhaps I should have. But since I do run a couple of Windows boxes, I'm curious..

    Does it run games better then Win2K? About eight months ago I got lazy and stopped booting into 98 to play games. I found that on adequate system (gobs of inexpensive ram, thank you crucial) 2k runs games quite well. So yeah, my windows boxes are my game boxes.

    Suppose I had acquired a copy, should I be versed in this XP crack (that I.. Uh... Heard some hoodlum teens talking about behind the 7-11) before I install it? Or does the crack apply to subsequent installations.

    Is this thing as compromised in an Orwellian manor as I have heard? BS or fact, how much polling of my box does Microsoft get away with? Suppose I whip ZoneAlarm on it and I block access to M$? Does this pretty much break the system?

    Other then increased speed and stability (bug fixes) is there any compelling reason for someone running a workstation/game machine to even look at this fetid piece of shit?

    And seriously... Does Microsoft really think they are going to get away with this shit? Isn't this really all about the first stage in deploying digital encryption/copyrighting on a global scale? Are they not in on the MPAA mafia's brilliant scheme to block recordable media from storing copyrighted material and also trying to "urge" and "gently nudge" the sheeple from actually enjoying said material? (media player not ripping at 128 and so on... Like anyone rips with media player...) for the life of me I have yet to find a reason as to what exactly am I missing by not letting this thing into my house...

    Since OS 10.1 is supposed to be out on Tuesday (Seybold) and since I haven't slept in 32 hours and will probably spend Tuesday migrating my proper workstations to it (woo woo low level driver support, finally get my wacom tablets to run on it) I will probably sleep through all the wealth of XP juju bandied about on Monday in a beloved coma. So if anyone has any wisdom on any of this I would certainly appreciate it.

    • Re:why xp? (Score:2, Informative)

      by umeshunni ( 37684 )
      For the record...
      winxp DOES run games a lot faster than win2k. i get 55fps in Q3 (640x480) while i get close to 70 on winxp - using the latest nvidia drivers of course (winxp does crib while u install the drivers - something abt them not being tested by whql - but u can ignore that).

      • I have a question for the gamers: Once you get past a reliable 30 fps for a game, does it really matter? Can the human eye really tell the difference between 55 fps and 70 fps, or is this all just phallic bragging?
  • I caught the briefs for this article on Three News [tv3.co.nz], much to my bemusement. Apart from wondering why Microsoft chose New Zealand to debut XP, of all places, I couldn't help holding my head and screaming (and getting rolled eyes and exasperated sighs from the rest of my family :P) when poor John Campbell, not knowing any better, announced, "New Zealand today became the first place in the world for Microsoft's long awaited Windows XP program to go on sale..." and went on to say that it was a radical new program, with a number of advances over the previous Microsoft programs, Windows 95 and 98. Don't believe me? Check the website; it's all there at the bottom, although I imagine it won't be for long as the headlines are updated.

    In addition to this, "at one minute after midnight it was All Black Doug Howlett who became the first customer." Nice to know our "national heros" (bleh, rugby, I could care less that most New Zealanders worship these people) are so technically savvy...

    It occurs to me to wonder if, perhaps, Microsoft cleverly decided to do a test run of WinXP in New Zealand, so that if it bombed no one would notice. I mean, I doubt the average non-New Zealander/Australian even knows where New Zealand is...let alone that it's actually separate from Australia ;)

  • Remember when MS was talking about linux forking? According to the article Windows XP already comes in 3 different versions.

    On another note, I wonder if all 3 are really the same and all you have to do is change one line in the setup file to access the different files in the different versions. Like back with Win95, where you could select what version to install with the oemsetup.something file.
    • They're probablya all the same, so no forking.

      I remember a few years back when it came out (after years of denial by MS of course) that NT server and workstation were the EXACT same except for one file (registry setting?), something very trivial like that.

      It's cheaper to develop that way -- like all floppy disks manufactured are double-sided, they just sell some for less labelled "single-sided" and leave out the hole...
      • Not exactly correct. Lots diff't under the hood. but the MOSt noticable difference was that WS would only support 10 connections, server could do more.
        • Actually, the parent post was right. Win NT Workstation and Server were identical. All system files were exactly the same. The difference between them was two registry settings, which you couldn't change while the OS was running.

          These settings created "hundreds of differences" to the running OS, but these were all run-time settings.

          For example, as you pointed out, Workstation was deliberately crippled so that it couldn't handle more then ten simultaneous connections. Workstation was more than capable of it (as much as an Win NT) but it wasn't allowed to.

          Later they started making these changes via #define statements in the code. It was essentially the same thing, but they could point to different executables to show that they weren't the same.

          That's when MS lost any chance of ever selling to the really big businesses. Nobody wants to buy software which you aren't allowed to use. WinNT Workstation is exactly that. The main difference between it and Server is the license "agreement".

          When you buy a OS (and computer) from other companies, they let you do anything you want with it. Want to run one user, or one thousand? Fine. (They might require a client-license for whatever you're running for each terminal, but the OS itself is capable of doing it.)

          (WinNT Server shipped with more utils, but all extras, that you didn't really need to run the system.)
  • Are Slashdotters really so astonished that Windows XP would sell *at all* that this needed posting?
  • "World's Second XP System Sold".

  • Did that OEM computer come with recovery disks or with an installable version of XP?

    True, since this sounds like a small shop in NZ, it's probably the full XP version, but what will happen when Dell or Gateway release their XP machines?

    The entire idea of the recovery disk which typically requires one to reformat their hard drives (and note that most OEM machines come with only one HD with one partition), is a really stupid idea in the first place; I'm sure it's great for OEM support since they know how they can get back to a completely fresh, working machine, but it sucks for even a semi-literate computer user. And if I remember correctly, MS pushed for some of that in recent years. I'm sure it's going to continue with XP.

  • If you wish to have an XP machine that does not contact M$ home ba$e to register, simply use the following "God Mode" number.

    It activates all modes of your computer, disables all checking and lets you use XP as M$ never intended.

    MS Windows XP Professional -- Corporate Edition

    FCKGW-RHQQ2-YXRKT-8TG6W-2B7Q8

  • And so it begins? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ReelOddeeo ( 115880 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @10:19AM (#2340848)
    From the article: And so, it begins.

    Don't you really mean: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
  • In other news, Pharquar P. Parkenfarker of Los Angeles bought a newspaper today at approximately 9:03am Pacific Daylight Time. It is widely believed to have been his first newspaper purchase of the day.

    After purchasing the paper, Mr. Parkenfarker sat down on a bench for the very first time today and waited for a bus for the very first time. At approximately 9:13am, Mr. Parkenfarker boarded a bus for the very first time today, and at approximately 9:47am he arrived at his office for the first time today.

    Following this, at approximately 9:52am, Mr. Parkenfarker said "Good morning," to a coworker for the very first time today, and proceeded to drink today's very first cup of bitter, badly-made coffee from the office coffee pot (which he saw for the very first time today at approximately 9:55am).

  • Enough making fun of XP already! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Junks Jerzey ( 54586 ) on Monday September 24, 2001 @02:59PM (#2342656)
    The significant differences between Linux and Windows XP are very few. They aren't worth arguing. You can say "Oh, but the Linux kernel is prettier!" but it doesn't matter when both OSes are rock solid. And the stability of a PC OS mostly comes down to drivers as it. Run Linux with a poor video driver and you'll have endless headaches. Ditto for Windows XP. You can say that Windows XP is bloated and slow, but you can say the same of Linux + XWindows + KDE/Gnome as well.

    So it all comes down to Windows XP being a Microsoft product and Linux being free, and that there is some software you can only get for one or the other. That's about all you can argue, though most people don't care.

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