Mob Rule on China's Internet 129
Alien54 writes to mention an International Herald Tribune article about the growing phenomenon in China known as internet hunting; Using the web to track down individuals who have violated social more or broken the law. From the article: "In recent cases, people have scrutinized husbands suspected of cheating on their wives, fraud on Internet auction sites, the secret lives of celebrities and unsolved crimes. One case that drew a huge following involved the poisoning of a Tsinghua University student - an event that dates to 1994, but was revived by curious strangers after word spread on the Internet that the only suspect in the case had been questioned and released. Even a recent scandal involving a top Chinese computer scientist dismissed for copying an American processor design came to light in part because of Internet hunting, with scores of online commentators raising questions about the project and putting pressure on the scientist's sponsors to look into allegations about intellectual property theft."
Is this what happens... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Is this what happens... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Is this what happens... (Score:1)
It's actually what you get when 1.5 billion bored people get on the internet and find there's nothing really all that interesting, but, hey, you can find the names of family, old school chums and that prick who used to kick yo
Re:Is this what happens... (Score:1)
Things like this tend to get out of control though when people jump to conclusions / and because it's so easy to fall into group think when mobbing around on emotional issues.
Hey! (Score:1, Insightful)
Speaking of which, is Ralsky still getting the junkmail he deserves, or has he moved recently?
Re:Is this what happens... (Score:2)
Re:Is this what happens... (Score:1)
Re:Is this what happens... (Score:1)
And no, there's no difficulty getting porn here. Just hop on google (.com/.co.uk/.ie, choose your own poison) and turn off result filtering on the images search.
WikiJudge? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:WikiJudge? (Score:5, Funny)
and I did not spe4k out
because I am ub3r.
Then they came for the f4gs
and I did not spe4k out
I'm no f4g.
Then they came for the h4xx0rs
and I did not spe4k out
because I dont need h4xx0rs, I have 1337 skillz.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
excpet for us h4rdc0res who went and raided Molten Core all day happily ever after.
Re:WikiJudge? (Score:1)
Re:WikiJudge? (Score:1)
Re:WikiJudge? (Score:2)
Well.... (Score:3, Funny)
Actually, the most interesting bit in there was about the plagiarism case. Too bad they didn't provide more detail -- I hadn't heard about that angle before.
Re:Well.... (Score:1)
http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/outrage.gif [toothpastefordinner.com]
Honestly, don't people have better things to do with their lives than argue about things that happened well over 10 years ago and that didn't affect their own lives at all? Oh, that's right, it's the internet.
Just like a jury of your peers! (Score:5, Funny)
Wait... (Score:4, Funny)
Where can we get one of those?
Re:Wait... (Score:1)
I just wonder where it/we went wrong.
Re:Wait... (Score:1)
Re:Wait... (Score:1)
Discussion is dying, netcraft confirmed it.
MOD PARENT DOWN! Kill him!!!!1111!!!
omg ponies!!11!1
where were we?
Feeling less sorry for the Chinese today (Score:2)
Re:Feeling less sorry for the Chinese today (Score:1)
Re:Feeling less sorry for the Chinese today (Score:2)
Re:Feeling less sorry for the Chinese today (Score:1)
Your response was misguided.
Re:Feeling less sorry for the Chinese today (Score:1)
Re:Feeling less sorry for the Chinese today (Score:1)
Just because there're relative few Chinese readers on Slashdot does not mean one can apply double-standards against the Chinese. Imagine if someone saying this before 1940s:
"The Jewish don't deserve their own government because they lost it 2000 years ago.".
Disclaimer: I'm not against the Jewish people. The above is just an example to reveal the absurdity of double standard I see here.
Must be mistaken... (Score:2)
Re:Must be mistaken... (Score:3, Insightful)
Cultural Revolution. This has some faint echoes.
Re:Must be mistaken... (Score:2)
This sounds like... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This sounds like... (Score:2)
Re:This sounds like... (Score:2)
Re:This sounds like... (Score:1)
Re:This sounds like... (Score:1)
At least the Chinese can pick good nicks! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:At least the Chinese can pick good nicks! (Score:2)
Re:At least the Chinese can pick good nicks! (Score:1)
This is an example of why ... (Score:5, Insightful)
You hear calls for vigilante activity a lot, on the net and in the real world. And it's got lots of emotional appeal. But it always turns into mob rule, with absolutely no mechanism for protecting the innocent.
Re:This is an example of why ... (Score:2)
Well, if you're rich, you can just hire private security (or the police) to hang around and keep the wankers away from your front door.
If you're not so rich, in most countries you can ask for police protection (and get it for free) until things blow over.
Since this is China, I'm not so sure if this guy & his family can get police protection just by asking. Maybe someone living/lived in China can resolve that.
Re:This is an example of why ... (Score:2)
Only if you're holding out a bag of money and smiling at the same time...
I live in southern China - A few months ago, I looked out the window of my 9th floor apartment and happened to notice a Shenzhen Police paddy wagon parked across the street, out front of a real estate company my GF used to work for - she SMS'S to say she has to work late, as one of the other employees was arrested, and everyo
Poor China (Score:2)
Re:Poor China (Score:1)
Re:Poor China (Score:2)
Real weapons? (Score:2)
http://rconversation.blogs.com/rconversation/2005
New! Interesting! (Score:2)
Woo.
Can't we go back to the 'old people in Korea' jokes?
And Slashdot? (Score:1)
Haven't people done this on SlashDot before?
Think spammers. With the name of one of them, an address, a telephone number and even maps of his location appeared, and the subject of discussion found themselves deluged with junk mail and the like. Sackfuls. Every day.
I cannot remember the guys name and maybe what happened was illegal and maybe even unethical, but I could see the point. It was too long ago to search for...
Re:And Slashdot? (Score:2)
Shortly after, someone posted his physical address and lo! he started receiving a LOT of junk mail. Like, a DOS on the postal service amount of junk mail.
No clear voice of Moral Authority (Score:5, Informative)
This new internet activism is probably a reaction to the commonly held belief that social mores are going to hell in a hand basket. My wife, an agnostic like myself, wonders if there is some value in most people having Religion in order to hold the more selfish, destructive behaviors in check. It would sadden me if this is the case, but as the Chinese government lessens its control of its citizenry and with the majority having no clear religion, there has been a corresponding rise in what most consider immoral behavior, and thus the current backlash.
Now whether the new behavior is truly immoral is a separate question, and as an agnostic one I have no firm answer for.
Re:No clear voice of Moral Authority (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No clear voice of Moral Authority (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No clear voice of Moral Authority (Score:4, Interesting)
George Washington thought so, in his Farewell Address he said:
It is pretty well established that Washington himself was at least a Deist, if not agnostic to the point of soft atheism.(As an aside, here is something very interesting - as I was looking for the exact quote to cut-n-paste into this message, I ran across an article by Michael Novak slamming the ACLU and attempting to justify it with the above quotation from George Washington. Except, Novak misquoted Washington [nationalreview.com] in a fashion that hides Washington's clearly judgemental opinion of the type of people who 'need' religion.)
Re: I don't think so... (Score:1, Flamebait)
If you are implying that a Judeo-Christian religion would help them I would recommend taking a hard look at the past 2,000 years of our religion. It does nothing to stop crime nor prevents society as whole from doing horrible things to other people ev
Re: I don't think so... (Score:2)
Nothing is rather a strong word, and I think demonstrably false.
Hanging suspected witches for devil worship...
Witches were executed not for devil worship, but for causing harm to others. Th
Re: I don't think so... (Score:1)
So is the word stop. If you read it again:
It does nothing to stop crime nor prevents society as whole from doing horrible things to other people even with the anger of god and damnation hanging over their head.
I think what the GP meant is that religions is not the ultimate cure for crime, which is proven by history. Among other ideologies, religion has its own side effects too. One of the side effect is it sometimes encourages the socie
Re: I don't think so... (Score:2)
No, actually the Church denied
Re: I don't think so... (Score:1)
Re:No clear voice of Moral Authority (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No clear voice of Moral Authority (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:No clear voice of Moral Authority (Score:3, Interesting)
vague call for Religion by non-subscriber (Score:1)
I'm sure the last thing you want to do is sit in a cafe and read, but here's a couple more links: http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/executedoffenders
(got remorse? nope. one of the final statements is from somebody who can't wait to meet his victims in heaven. word. I can actually admire that level of forgiveness but what does it do for bad people?)
W's gov't funded intensive Christianity prison program increased
Re:No clear voice of Moral Authority (Score:2)
I would submit that agnostics and atheists on average are more free thinkers and have a higher average IQ and thus find better work and find themselves in better financial circumstances; poverty being the largest predictor for crime and other anti-soc
every time one of these come up (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:every time one of these come up (Score:1)
So now we have (Score:1)
Clippy, is that you!? (Score:2, Funny)
Am I the only one who just imagined Clippy wearing a little chinese police hat?
Oh no, here comes the rage blackout again...
This story is PROPAGANDA (Score:2, Informative)
Mobsters (Score:3, Insightful)
How is that "mob" ruling anything? The people in the public investigated publicly known events. Then they used the usual power organized people have to pressure people who listen to them. Where's the "rule"? Where, indeed, is the "mob"?
That story is interesting mainly in the power regular people are accruing in China, a Communist tyranny that favors totalitarianism. I guess if you're a Chinese Communist powermonger, the Internet and people using its open society represent "mob rule', because tyrants see the world only in the simplest, most polarized power structures.
Maybe Alien54 and the IHT are learning more from Xin Hua, China's official propaganda publisher [xinhua.cn], and quoting the best lessons from the New York Times.
Re:Mobsters (Score:2, Insightful)
Wait, did we read the same article?
Someone under a pseudo-name posts accusations, a bunch of people respond and get all riled up and encourages more people to join them in their cause. A name is given and random people from all over dig up information about the guy and other random people in real life start harassing the guy and his family. All this without concrete evidence, they're just going by someone's words on the internet. Even when the original poster tries to call things off, they ignore him a
Re:Mobsters (Score:2)
Re:Mobsters (Score:2, Insightful)
The "mob rule" is the group of thousands applying their own brand of justice, using neither trial, jury, nor judge. I don't know about you, but when I hear "mob rule", I think torches and pitchforks, which is essentially what happened.
It's not even like adultery is even a crime (or is it ... ). Sure, he might be a jerk for cuckolding someone (and notice that even the alleged cuckold has rescinded his accusations), but does the punishment here really fit the crime? I don't think it does in this case, and f
Re:Mobsters (Score:2)
There's a vast gulf between harassment and lynching. And between lynching and due process of law, even vaster. These episodes lie somewhere between, at harassment. That's not "mob rule".
Re:Mobsters (Score:2)
These episodes lie somewhere between, at harassment. That's not "mob rule".
How is this form of harassment not mob rule? Would you like it if I create some trumped up charges against you, gather a mob, then proceed to turn your life into a living hell through harassing phone calls and posting of death threats against you and you associates? How about "We call on every company, every establishment, every office, school, hospital, shopping mall and public street to reject him."
There's more to mob rule
Re:Mobsters (Score:2)
When China's "Cultural Revolution" lynched, killed and terrorized millions with physical violence at the hands of actual mobs in the streets, that was mob rule, controlled by the mafia mob running the country. Just because something isn't "mob rule", that doesn't mean I'd like it.
As for "due process rights", those are rules of the government. Kidnapping is not false imprisonment, and mass harassment is not "deprivation of due process"
Re:Mobsters (Score:2)
When China's "Cultural Revolution" lynched, killed and terrorized millions with physical violence at the hands of actual mobs in the streets, that was mob rule, controlled by the mafia mob running the country.
So if many mobs terrorize millions, its mob rule, but if a single mob terrorizes a single person, its "just" harassment? Tell me, then, at what point does this harassment rise to the level of mob rule? Does the guy have to be physically attacked? Are the death threats and threats of physical impr
Re:Mobsters (Score:2)
It's the difference between Nazi grafitti and defaced Jewish cemeteries, and the Third Reich. The difference between vigilante threats and "mob rule" is absolutely stark.
Of course it is. Can't you tell the difference?
Agreed completely (Score:1)
When a guy sleeps with your wife, he is not only doing real emotional harm to you, but there is a good chance you might end up raising a child that is not your own. In the United States, anywhere from 10-30% of fathers unwittingly raise children that are not their own. In other words, the mothers were sleeping around, and very often you can't tell if a child belongs to a par
Re:Agreed completely (Score:2)
But I'm not sure whose behavior you mean when you say "if everyone has a "every man for himself" type mentality, well then you get the kind of behaviour you found in New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina". Do you mean the behavior of the government agencies which left people to drown and fend for themselves? Or are
Re:Agreed completely (Score:2)
Can you cite
Re:Agreed completely (Score:2)
"Can you cite any credible evidence to support your claims?"
No, because I never said that. You've got me confused with someone else.
Re:Agreed completely (Score:2)
OmG YOo ChinaMAN Got Pwned! (Score:1)
Hrmmm.....husbands cheating on wives (Score:1)
This would never happen in the west.... (Score:1)
When you listen to fools... (-1, off-topic) (Score:1)
What we need is a low budget sci-fi tale (Score:1)
Kind od a Blade Runner type tale. Bounty Hunters tracking down ordinary Chinese Citizens who are trying to learn about "freedom" on the net.
The Ones marked for Death are those looking for a certain key phrase.
The phrase, of course, turns to be "Tianemen massacre"
patent infringement (Score:1)
Theft connotes bereavement where there is none.
nothing to see here (Score:1)
there has never been a reply here
it has not been censored by the chinese government
the post wasn't even from a chinese... well it wouldn't have been if it had existed... which it hasn't...
China cares about Intellectual Property? (Score:2)
Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:3, Funny)
http://www.walmart.com/cservice/ca_storefinder.gs
Re:Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:1)
</badjoke>
Re:Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:2)
Prisoners get paid anywhere from 4 to 50 cents an hour, which means they are the cheapest labor to be found in the U.S.
BTW - Having a prison job like that is normally doled out as a privilege for those who behave themselves.
What's scary is the idea of privatized prisons turning into a defacto labor camp so that the operators can make more money. I'd rather see abuse, corruption and/or fuck ups happen in the hands of Stat
Re:Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:1)
"A chain gang is a group of prisoners chained together to perform a menial or physically challenging labor, such as chipping stone, often along a highway. This system (and the term for it) existed primarily in the United States, and has been phased out in most of, but not all of, the country. Some states are reintroducing chain gangs, although perhaps in a less oppressive form."
- Wikipedia
I might have suggested that portion of
Re:Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:1)
Re:Yeah, the US is really comparable to China (Score:2)
I see no difference in that. The real difference is how the laws are determined that
criminalize certain parts of the population. Ethical and moral codes are not absolute.
Non-violent criminals (Score:1)
That makes them political prisoners in my book. How dare anyone smoke a flower that we don't like them to smoke? (Yet, last I checked, I could legally go down to the store and buy poison that would actually kill me if ingested. A minor point, but still. And of cousre,
Re:You say Tomato I say... (Score:2)
So in other words, America is where you worry about a totalitarian, monolithic government prying into every detail of your private life (and possibly using what it turns up as an excuse to ship you off to a secret prison) and China is where you worry about vigilantes and lynch-mob frontier justice. We really are living in Bizarro World.