Sony vs. Microsoft, Tortoise vs. Hare 96
Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Was Microsoft smart to rush out the Xbox 360 or is Sony smarter to wait and load PlayStation 3 with the latest technology? The Wall Street Journal analyzes the opposing camps' strategies; the stakes are high, as 'the Xbox group has lost billions of dollars since its start five years ago and will continue to lose money if Sony trounces Microsoft.' Several expected Microsoft announcements today, besides 'Halo 3', are meant to deliver the message that the Xbox's head-start was an advantage: 'Microsoft will also demonstrate ways for mobile phones to link with its Xbox Live service, which allows Xbox 360 users to play games with each other over the Internet. Executives will also announce new games for the Xbox Live service and are negotiating a partnership to build a "massively multiplayer" game for Live that allows thousands of people to play each other over the Internet, say people familiar with the company's plans.'"
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:1)
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you know of anyone who's personally clamoring for the PS3 because of its BluRay player? Do most people prefer to watch DVD's on their PS2?
In terms of launch date, there's a one year gap for the PS3.
In terms of price, the PS3 will launch at $500 (or will be $600, if it's like the XBox360 launch, where nobody in their right mind would get the low-end version? It's still not clear whether HDMI will be required to view BluRay movies or not) ... the PS3 will launch at $500 or $600 at a time that the Wii is launching for $200-$300, and the XBox 360 will have dropped in price to $400 or $450 (for the high-end version). $600 vs $450 and $250 is really tough to swallow, in my humble opinion.
In terms of features, PS3 seems to have added some Wii-mote functionality last minute. PS3 rightly copied the XBox 360 central network service, and we'll have to wait to see if they did anything to innovate on top of XBox 360 (though MS did a pretty thorough job, implementing almost everything one could want with XBL).
And sentiment among many gamers right now is that PS3 has a poor showing at E3 so far compared to Nintendo. I don't think it's inaccurate to present PS3 in a poor light right now.
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:1)
The Xbox 360 is already $400 for the HD version, $300 for the "core" system.
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:2)
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:3, Interesting)
I also wouldn't be shocked by Nintendo announcing a $199 price tag for their offering.
I also think that within the price range you're talking about, history has shown they won't make much of a difference. After all, the PS2 cost $100 more than the Dreamcast and the Gamecube at l
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:2)
-Erwos
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:1)
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:2)
If they're already on the course to victory, though, why would they turn down the extra cash? Unless Sony is winning the hype war and 360 sales are in the toilet, Microsoft won't have any incentive to lower price.
I'm willing to take your bet. I'll bet one next generation console game of your choice t
And if Nintendo wins the hype war? (Score:1)
Unless Sony is winning the hype war and 360 sales are in the toilet, Microsoft won't have any incentive to lower price.
So what happens if Nintendo wins the hype war? Is Microsoft counting on people having enough money to buy Xbox 360 in addition to Wii?
Re:And if Nintendo wins the hype war? (Score:2)
It's too bad. It looks like they are poised for first place this round.
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:1)
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:2)
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:2)
It would be stupid to cut the price by $50, because that's $500,000,000 in losses per ten-million 360s sold. For that much money, MS could buy a large game studio outright, or pay to get 5 to 15 exclusive games that are currently going to be PS3 exclusives, or on both platforms
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:1)
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:2)
If MS spent $500,000,000 to get exclusives, that alone would get 360s to fly off the shelves, but just as importantly, make the PS3 look terrible with pathetic software support. Besides, the 360 can't compete on price if the Wii costs $200 or 250. The best way to sell consoles is
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:2)
That's fine. Perhaps even correct. Time will tell, etc, etc...
That's not what happened here though. The title says Sony vs. Microsoft, the story talks about Sony and Microsoft, and the summary only talks about how great Microsoft is. He didn't say anything negative about Sony, he just said great stuff about Microsoft. Doesn't that seem a little unusual to you? I don't care who you think is going to 'win'. That's not the issue. The issue
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:1, Informative)
If you mean "do most people with a PS2 use it as their primary DVD player", then when the ps2 first launched, the answer was apparently "yes". I have DVDs that came with stickers proudly announcing that it would be compatible with my PS2, and later revisions of the PS2 included the DVD firmware so you wouldn't need the memorycard and remote to play (though controlling playback with the controller is "interesting"). It pulled this off because it was reasona
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:2)
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:1)
Re:The Wall Street Journal presents both sides... (Score:1)
Into the Way-Back Mahcine (Score:1, Flamebait)
In other news, the Xbox 360 version of Final Fantasy XI has been on store shelves for several weeks now...
Re: (Score:2)
correction... (Score:3, Funny)
There, I fixed it for you
off topic comment- fiscal conservative (Score:1)
Re:correction... (Score:1)
One thing about MS (Score:2)
Re:One thing about MS (Score:2)
Re:One thing about MS (Score:1)
Re:One thing about MS (Score:2)
Re:One thing about MS (Score:2)
7 months is "almost a year"?
Re:One thing about MS (Score:2)
to put the 3.3 million figure in perspective. the ps2
Does The Author Get It? (Score:5, Insightful)
While the race could go to either the tortoise or the hare, there is another animal in the contest: a dark horse. Nintendo Co. is rolling out its console, dubbed Wii, about the same time as PlayStation 3. The Japanese game maker has deliberately tried to stay out of the Microsoft-Sony battle by focusing on a younger audience than the others, forgoing the flash of cutting-edge graphics for easier-to-play games.
Frankly, the author fundamentally fails to understand what Nintendo is trying to accomplish with the Wii. While the young market is still decidedly one of Nintendo's target audiences, they're far more interested in tapping into the (possibly huge) mature non-gamer market. Virtually every piece of marketing we've seen for the Wii has showcased a primarily adult audience, including couples, the elderly, and other demographics that aren't generally associated with gaming.
If the author doesn't get this very, very fundamental aspect of what Nintendo is trying to do, you have to wonder just how deep his knowledge of the current next-gen fight is...
Nope, deep knowledge lacking (Score:2)
Re:Does The Author Get It? (Score:2)
I'm actually predicting very good sales for Nintendo, not so much for their achievements (which are good), but because parents looking to buy a gaming system will pro
Re:Does The Author Get It? (Score:2)
That happens to older folks too (well guys anyway). It's called "benign prostatic hypertrophy".
Re:Does The Author Get It? (Score:2)
Re:Does The Author Get It? (Score:2)
Re:Does The Author Get It? (Score:1)
The average non-gamer Joe is going to see the Wii on the golf channel and think that $250-$350 for a golf simulator is actually pretty good.
Re:Does The Author Get It? (Score:2)
For those reasons I always recommend notebooks to older users and it alwasy works out for the better. The grand children will be the ones to introduce them to MMORPGs when there is more than one notebook in the house and for the elder
Wow, a MMORPG? The WSJ is not clueful. (Score:3, Insightful)
Classically, the mentions of good games in this article have to do with the manufacturers trying to reach thresholds at which game manufacturers will develop "their best games" and with Halo driving Xbox sales. The WSJ also manages this amazingly lame description of the Wii controller:
Yeah, it works just like a remote control. That's why it's a big deal. Gotta buy me one o' them fancy ree-motes.
(The WSJ is always an interestingly mannered read even in stylistic terms, isn't it? Phrases:
Arsy-versy sentences like that read like the "News... On the March!" half-parody newsreel at the beginning of Citizen Kane.)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft is actually learning (Score:2)
That's odd - I thought it was killed by SEGA.
Re:Microsoft is actually learning (Score:1)
Bart Simpson to Martin Prince, referring to Nelson Muntz, "I don't care who wins as long as it's not that guy."
It wasn't all hype, just brand momentum (Score:2)
For my money -- literally, for my money -- there is a price threshold beyond which brand loyalty will not win the consumer over. Between MS and Sony, I'm not sure who's proving this point with more determination right now. The sales figures for the 360 are maybe not as anemic as sometimes gets suggested, but this is a next-generation machine wit
When the PS2 came out?!? Wrong epoch, AC. (Score:2)
Anyone who thinks "Playstation" was not by far the biggest name in consoles when the PS2 came out is confused. By comparison the Dreamcast came from a known name that had fallen on hard, hard times, and it never had anything like the name recognition of "Playstation."
Re:Microsoft is actually learning (Score:2)
They could have included Sega CD support, but then, who's got a Sega CD? Everyone I've ever known to have one got it at a flea market, long after it was significant to anyone. Even the kids with money that I knew didn't have them, they had a TG16 with the CD instead.
They could not have reasonably included Saturn support. The Sega Saturn has two 32 bit RISC processors and a pile of other custom chips. Doing Saturn 3D in software in addition to emulating both processors and everything else was out of reac
Re:Microsoft is actually learning (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Microsoft is actually learning (Score:2)
I guess that's the videogame equivalent of "As a fan of Trotsky, I hope Hitler succeeds and whips the shit out of Stalin."
Oh Godwin, where art thou? =)
Re:Wii for teh win (Score:2, Informative)
Second, the 27 games are games playble at E3. They are not games that will necessarily be available at launch.
Re:Wii for teh win (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Wii for teh win (Score:2)
Re:Wii for teh win (Score:2)
Re:Wii for teh win (Score:1)
TROLL? WTF? (Score:2)
Jesus. Speak your opinion and get blasted. Oh well, I should have expected as much.
I prefer Tortoise vs. Hare vs. Alien (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft: It has little to no chance to make an impact in Japan and has yet to make that big of an impact in North America or Europe (and don't say this is because of shortages, if there were serious shortages you'd see sustained $1000 systems on eBay and you wouldn't find them in stores anywhere).
Sony: Sony is producing a multimedia powerhouse with some (stolen) unconventional input; as I've argued before (when people complained about the Wii's one handed controller) you can't do much with 6 axis control when your hands are together (try it, hold a book and rotate it in as many ways as you can, now try with a remote control) so I doubt the added features will be of much use. The big problem with the PS3 (in my opinion) is the Price; at $500 and $600 you're looking at 3 price cuts, and three years (if you average a price cut of $100 per year, which is pretty typical) before your average "casual" gamer is willing to buy your system.
Nintendo: Nintendo's biggest hurdle is whether the public will 'get-it'. Gamers in general understand what Nintendo is trying to do, and are either excited or at least happy that someone is trying something; I'm not so sure the Madden playing public will understand though. If you play 2-4 hours a week, and buy a game every couple of months are you going to be tired of the same crap that is being produced year after year? You can ask the same question of movies, are you better of making movies with greater acting/plot/direction or should you pack in as much special effects?
Re:I prefer Tortoise vs. Hare vs. Alien (Score:1, Informative)
Microsoft: It has little to no chance to make an impact in Japan and has yet to make that big of an impact in North America or Europe (and don't say this is because of shortages, if there were serious shortages you'd see sustained $1000 systems on eBay and you wouldn't find them in stores anywhere).
Who are you kidding? Microsoft has sold about five million consoles in eight months. That's more than the PS1, PS2, original Xbox, or any other console at this stage in the cycle. The sales curve for the 360
"Shipped" figures? (Score:1)
Microsoft has sold about five million consoles in eight months.
Citation please so I can tell whether that's "sold" to retailers or "sold" to end users.
Re:I prefer Tortoise vs. Hare vs. Alien (Score:1)
They wouldn't be talking about a goal of 6M in 12 months then. I'd be surprised if they sold substantially more than half that.
Re:I prefer Tortoise vs. Hare vs. Alien (Score:2)
They wouldn't be talking about a goal of 6M in 12 months then. I'd be surprised if they sold substantially more than half
And they aren't; they're talking 10 million [gamasutra.com]
Re:I prefer Tortoise vs. Hare vs. Alien (Score:2)
Anyone remember the pressure-sensitive buttons that Sony added to the PS2 controller? It's not entirely un-Sony like to add useless features to a controller that no one really use
Re:I prefer Tortoise vs. Hare vs. Alien (Score:1)
Are you aware of what "six degrees of freedom" means? If you can't perform the feat you offered, even with just one page of your book between your thumb and index fingers, then I
History repeats itself sometimes (Score:2)
Re:History repeats itself sometimes (Score:1)
Only if that fraction is approaching 1.
In the Americas and Europe, the Genesis was ahead of the SNES for most of thier life -- the SNES only really pulled ahead when Sega started fucking around with the 32X and Saturn stuff.
In Japan, the SNES came out much sooner than it did over here, and as such Nintendo was the dominant console. But due to several factors -- EA Sports games, earlier access to the Street Fighter games, and an earlier release overall -- the Genesis had a foothold in Canada and the St
Re:History repeats itself sometimes (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a pretty good fraction. If Microsoft gets that fraction, the Xbox 360 would definitely be a success.
Re:History repeats itself sometimes (Score:2)
Uh....that fraction would imply that the Genesis had over 70% of the market. I think you mean 5/12 (35 mil/(35 mil + 49 mil)). Still a good percentage and one that Microsoft would kill for.
Re:History repeats itself sometimes (Score:1)
5/7 would still be the correct fraction seeing as how we're comparing Genesis sales to SNES sales, not overall system sales.
Re:History repeats itself sometimes (Score:2)
If you read the original comment, posted about for your ease, he was right, the Genesis had 5/7 the sales as the SNES. You were talking about overall market share.
Ouch (for Nintendo) (Score:5, Insightful)
Poor journalism there, really.
Now, for the wider "console wars" struggle: Sony failed to show much of anything particularly impressive from their extra year of development. Graphically, things seem to have regressed since last year - perhaps since last year they were showing mocked-up CG rather than real footage. Gameplay-wise, they showed absolutely nothing new - an (admittedly pretty) God of War clone, a WWII shooter (with aliens!), and several racers do not make for exciting next-generation play. With their obscene price tag and the fact that they've no longer got a timed-exclusive hold on some big series, like GTA, they seem to be setting themselves up for a fall. They seem to be flailing for new ideas - the motion-sensing function of the controller was apparently tacked on only two or three weeks before E3.
I suspect that the 360 may begin to gain the upper hand, at least in the US, and possibly in Europe (where they're getting shafted even worse on the PS3 price - 599 Euros translates to some $760). I'm not sure how Japan will fare; from the sales to date, it seems that the 360 has little hope of taking a lead there, but the Wii may see significant success, bolstered by the DS' mindshare and popularity. There's also the classic "big console" issue - the PS3 is some 2 inches bigger than the original XBox, making it less attractive to Japanese consumers. Japan is generally very brand-loyal, but shifts have occured in the past - that is, after all, how Sony came to power. On a personal note, I find Sony's arrogance about the system's price (their executives have been quoted as saying that it's probably too cheap) to be faintly disgusting, too.
Apologies for the rambling.
Re:Ouch (for Nintendo) (Score:2)
BusinessWeek Online [businessweek.com]:
Re:Ouch (for Nintendo) (Score:1)
I find it quite amusing that people are slagging Sony off for not showing anything impressive. Off screen footage of games shown at E3 that is available on various sites looks quite impressive to me, definitely "next gen" - as it should be.
Actual gameplay is of course
Sony vs MS (Score:3, Interesting)
Why I really think that the 360 will take this round in the console wars is going to be the Live service. Playing a game on the computer, see a bud come online on his 360, invite him to play with you? That is cool.
I was planning on buying the other 2 systems when they come out(my guilty pleasure, gaming. I own/ed pretty much all the consoles at one point or another), as my son and wife will love to play the Nintendo, and I am intrigued by the controller. But, with the outrageous price point of the PS3, and not alot of exclusive games that are must plays on the PS3 (actually... I can't think of one that I would want to play), there will be one more system on the shelves this holiday for someone else.
Re:Sony vs MS (Score:2)
Even more interesting is that one of the common comments about the Xbox from PS2 fanatics was "Of course it's more advanced, it came out a year later." If the PS3 isn't significantly better, I wonder if those same people are going to come around to the X360. For me, at least in the near-term - the next two years - P
its not the hardware.... (Score:1)
For me its about continuation.. backward compat (Score:2)
Now, next generation. I will probably choose the ps3, because it will play the older games.
MS basically is starting from scratch with most older games not working well.
Combine that and fact the old xbox costs more than it used to (forced bundle) as well as monthly fees to get the most out the xbox (xbox live). I don't think being first out will matter so much.
Re:For me its about continuation.. backward compat (Score:2)
Backwards compatibility is nice, but over rated.
And as for xbox live being required to "get the most" out of the console, (the basic service level is free, isn't it?), wouldn't the PS3 require an online service to get those same features?
Re:For me its about continuation.. backward compat (Score:2)
Couldn't resist. (Score:2, Funny)
With Sony, someone's always waiting and loading.
cheap and fast always wins in console gaming (Score:3, Informative)
mid-90s Flops: Laseractive (1993, $970/1268), 3DO (1993, $700/915), Atari Jaguar (1993, $250/327, company went under)
It's not an absolute rule, but releasing early was WILDLY successful for Sega's Genesis and Sony's Playstation, giving them access to an industry that they were previously all but unknown in. Dreamcast's failure was due to Sega falling apart, kind of like what happened to Atari's delayed and corporately ruined 7800.
Re:cheap and fast always wins in console gaming (Score:2)
Re:cheap and fast always wins in console gaming (Score:2)
I must have typoed. They should both say 1994, and they both came out at the beginning of the holiday season: the Saturn [wikipedia.org] was released in Japan on 1994/11/22 and the Playstation [wikipedia.org] followed eleven days later, on 1994/12/03. This is a rather insignificant time difference, given the vast number of other variables involved.
As to the Dreamcast [wikipedia.org] (1998/11/27) vs Playstation 2 [wikipedia.org] (2000/03/04), I no
What's The Strategy? (Score:2, Interesting)
The Wii is clearly trying to try something completely new in terms of controllers. I mean, the thing is weird. New gameplay, new options, new styles. All good.
The 360 seems predicated on networking. Live is the best thing MS has
Re:What's The Strategy? (Score:2)
How many prospective 360 customers have broadband? I've recently noticed a bunch of ads on television for dial-up service from AOL, Earthlink, Netscape and Net Zero. Dial-up isn't dead yet.