Webcomics As Business Model 200
oddjobs writes "It's not the most groundbreaking article, but the Chicago Tribune does a pretty good job of looking at the state of webcomics-as-business-model. They mention the usual suspects (Marvel, McCloud) but most hopeful is Unbound Comics, which is selling comics collected in Adobe's e-book format. Fans of the 80s book Dalgoda take note."
Webcomics business?? (Score:4, Informative)
And then there's Sluggy Freelance [sluggy.com] (a GREAT comic if you people havne't read it yet) where he puts collections together and sells them as books.
I don't think there is much profit in the webcomic business....
Re:Webcomics business?? (Score:2, Insightful)
Bandwidth sure isn't free these days...
Creative Freedom's the Thing (Score:1)
Your audience doesn't have to go to a store or track down a copy. You don't have to pay for publishing and word of mouth can spread your web address quite quickly if the content is good.
Speaking of which (cheesy plug in effect):
http://miracle.keenspace.com/d/20010910.html [keenspace.com]
Any genre and any style can be represented because it's not limited to shelf space or a particular audience.
--- Jim Zubkavich
The Makeshift Miracle
updated on M/W/F
http://www.makeshiftmiracle.com [makeshiftmiracle.com]
Re:Webcomics business?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Syndicated cartoonists must adhere to some pretty strict guidelines. Their comics are printed in mainstream newspapers, where using the word "gosh" will get you angry letters from blue-haired grannies all around the country.
Web comics are created under no such restrictions. Anything is fair game- mainstream demographics be damned! As a result, the average webcomic is much more interesting and daring (if much less polished looking) than say, Marmaduke or the Family Circus.
Anyone can create a web comic- there is even a webhost, keenspace [keenspace.com], which will host anyone's comic for free.
Art can only thrive and evolve when there are artists out there who do it purely for the sake of art. If you do it for the money, you aren't so much an artist, you are an entertainer (which isn't to say that you can't make an entertaining comic).
Drake Emko
hackles.org [hackles.org] (nerdy animal fun!)
Re:Webcomics business?? (Score:2)
The best thing about web-based cartoons is the fact not only are you subject to less censorship, you can do things like very, very long serial stories (long serial stories was the hallmark of the best comic strips from the 1920's to 1950's). This is why Sluggy Freelance carries on that tradition--story arcs like the combo about Riff's time machine going haywire and the Stormbreaker Saga took over half a year to complete from start to finish.
Re:Look at it this way... (Score:4, Insightful)
What makes you think art is, or should be, special? It's just another human activity that can be done for pleasure, or for money, or on a dare, or for any number of reasons.
Being hungry or cold or generally impovished does not make you a better artist, just a hungry, cold, impovished one. If someone wants to produce art, and finds a way to get paid for it, great. Art is not here to make everyone happy.
Re:Look at it this way... (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually this isn't true, and is more a 20th century myth than anything. Some of the greatest art in the world was made to order. Renaissance art, for instance, was subsidized by great patrons, such as the Medicis. Artists should get paid, they make objects that are worth something, and should be compensated for it. If someone can find a way to make a living from their art, I say good for them, because it's one of the hardest ways that I know of to make a living. That's why I do other stuff to make a living, and, basically do my art for myself--I certainly haven't made a living with it.
Spiderman #1 (Score:3, Funny)
But then I'd have to pay a buck to read Spiderman #2.
And then... how many Spiderman issues are there?
The cynic in me says (Score:1)
Re:The cynic in me says (Score:2)
For those who visit my website [furinkan.net], you would know that I am a big fan of the Ranma 1/2 anime and manga. Recently, I had the opportunity to obtain a complete, free, fan-translated run of the manga in GIF format. Each page was its own image, and had to be read with a web browser or image viewer like IrfanView (free) or ACDSee (not free).
Despite the fact that I already have it in a digital format, I continue to pay for the 'legitimate' [viz.com] release of Ranma 1/2 as it comes out, month by month, at $3.95 an issue.
When I want to re-read a story or figure out a particular reference for a fanstory, however, rather than reaching for the stack of manga... I pop in the CDR containing the digital versions. Not only is it easier for me to read than the text version, it's quicker, you don't have to hunt for issues, etc...
I've also recently obtained the 'Complete MAD Magazine,' which is a 7 CD set containing every issue of MAD magazine between the first issue in the 50's to around 1998 if I'm correct. True, some of them are dogs, especially the newer once. My old stack of MAD's hasn't been touched since, however.
If you have indexing of any kind, you can search on that. If not, you can search on filenames. While I think that the current e-book formats, all of which are burdened with copy-protection, are inherently flawed, they have a great deal on print books.
I especially like the PDB (Palm) format, which can be used with or without copy protection, and allows you to read books on your organizer. With the aid of a few utilities, said PDB files can be easily converted to HTML, Star, Word, or ASCII Text.
I don't think copy protected e-books will go over very well, but I *do* think that the e-book is only going to get more and more popular.
Not Very Collectible.... (Score:1, Insightful)
File sharing (Score:1)
Re:File sharing (Score:2)
When you make a donation you get stuff, wallpaper mostly, but it's cool stuff.
They also have mugs on Think-Geek and a book has recently been published.
Go PA!
Re:File sharing (Score:2)
Re:File sharing (Score:1)
Regardless, if they sold shirts, I'd buy 'em.
Merchandising... (Score:5, Interesting)
With our hosting change, our hosting expenses have also gone up dramatically. We don't really know where it will settle out at, but we are keeping our fingers crossed. Before people start asking, we will NOT be asking for donations or having a paypal donation button - MT will survive like any other good property, based on it's ability to sell a reasonable amount of merchandise. If you would like to support MT, please visit our store and buy some swag
Also note Scott Kurtz from PVP [pvponline.com], who is selling original sketches for $300-$400 a pop on ebay.
Re:Merchandising... (Score:4, Insightful)
Before people start asking, we will NOT be asking for donations or having a paypal donation button
I don't get these comments, it costs them money but they don't ask for any, or they ask people to buy tchotchkes which are secondary to the actual comic product.
Why not add a PayPal button? Is it some kind of pride or something, that people might think they are begging? They don't seem to have a problem with banner ads.
The internet makes it possible for you to say "you can pay if you want, and if you don't that's okay too". Public radio has been working like this for while, why not use the model on the internet?
I don't read any online comics but there are some free things like TidBITS [tidbits.com] and heroic stories [heroicstories.com] for which I have gotten into the habit of pay $10-20/yr for as if it was a paper subscription (hell I've read Tidbits since freakin' high school and I feel like I owe them a lot). I'd be willing to pay for stuff like /. too, I pay for stuff that adds value to my life, and I don't care if other people don't pay.
Re:Merchandising... (Score:1)
MT wills urvive like any other good property, based on it's ability to sell a reasonable amount of merchandise. If you would like to support MT, please visit our store and buy some swag
The crazy thing with MT is that the only thing they don't sell is the comic itself in dead-tree format.
Merchandise. (Score:5, Informative)
Thanks to Cafe Press [cafepress.com] this is really, really easy to do. They are legit to - I've made real money selling merch for my band. Of course with the cut they take, it had better be legit!
Re:Merchandise. (Score:1)
Re:Merchandise. (Score:1)
I presume it's http://www.cowcomics.com, though it does seem to be transitional.
Re:Merchandise. (Score:3, Insightful)
They're still in beta atm, so use the "backdoor" [zazzle.com] to check them out instead.
I do question their 12% royalty though -- I'd rather they be more upfront about their costs so that you could figure who is getting the shorter end of the profit stick.
--
DotComics are great (Score:2, Interesting)
User Friendly (Score:1)
By the way, I find it hillarious that someone is selling commics in adobe e-book format. An 8 year old could write a program to decode them.
Re:User Friendly (Score:1)
Judging by your sig, I'm sure you realize the point of using crappy copy-control is mostly to have a DMCA argument when attacking pirates, not to actually stop the copying in the first place.
Re:User Friendly (Score:1)
Yep - double rot-13 ought to do the job ;-)
subscriptions won't work.... (Score:2, Interesting)
i'd think that advertising (banner ads, those terrible pop-up ads) are still the way to go...that and having an on-line store selling merchandise, et al., related to the comic...
but, again, as long as their are ways to freely distribute the subscription material, paying for it will never work...the content wants to be free...and will always find a way to do so....
They're missing it (Score:5, Insightful)
Comics is exactly the kind of thing I would use micropayments for. I would never consider a subscription. If they try to fool me into making a subscription, they will loose me. It's as simple as that.
I wouldn't be so sure about that either. I would gladly pay for good, accessible products, that doesn't infringe on my privacy, take away my fair use rights, doesn't try to abuse my trust in any way, and make available a convientent method for making payments.
Right now, that doesn't exist, and it seems the industry isn't going to make it happen. All the industry care about it making offers that sucks, infringe on my privacy, take away my fair use rights, and abuse my trust in every way. In addition, they all stand behind their little sand castles shouting at each other trying to make different ways of making payments that are not going to work. Instead, they should come together and agree on common, open standards.
Re:They're missing it (Score:2)
Basically
Re:They're missing it (Score:2)
It's not complicated, but you need lots of people to buy into it to get it running.
Re:They're missing it (Score:2)
Either I'm missing something or the system has to be a little better in it's design.
Re:They're missing it (Score:2)
Re:They're missing it (Score:2)
And therefore the smart customers create a bunch of new accounts, get as many comics as they can before hitting the limit, and then switch accounts. Then, they set up an fserv on #ecomic on dalnet.
I hate to say it, but this will happen.
--Dan
Re:They're missing it (Score:2)
People say they go to church (Score:2)
Likewise, of course if you ask somebody, "would you pay 3c a page for good content?" They say "well, of course, I support artists, I'd pay that even if I didn't have to bleah bleah fair use bleah bleah." It's practically a religious thing for people, like myself and, lets be frank, everyone else on Slashdot, who download gigs of Mp3s.
However, when you actually look at the numbers for this - Penny Arcade doesn't get a tenth of a cent in micropayments per pagehit. Now, maybe some people are making that up in buying coffee mugs, whatever, the point is, when you look at how people actually behave, they don't pay the three cents per page when you demand it, they go read something else.
Is this because PayPal is too bulky? I'm sure that that is part of it, and that if it were easier to make micropayments than half of the people who say they'd make them really would.
Just my 0.02$ per page.
Re:They're missing it (Score:3, Interesting)
I wouldn't be so sure about that either. I would gladly pay for good, accessible products, that doesn't infringe on my privacy, take away my fair use rights, doesn't try to abuse my trust in any way, and make available a convientent method for making payments.
I did too... so I paid for it, and I got screwed. [com.com] Lucky for me, I got screwed out of only $10 and the time I invested setting up my photo album and captions and stuff. Lots of people were using it to host images for ebay, and paid a lot more money for a lot of extra storage. They lost a lot more than I did.
ok (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:ok (Score:2)
I feel inclined to mention that Stephen King made about half a million on his Plant experiment, after expenses, which is pretty good considering 1) it was entirely a "virtual" product, 2) he screwed up a lot of stuff.
The press (owned by big publishers mostly) said it was a failure, and King even send a letter to one newspaper (NYT perhaps it was), explaining that it wasn't really a failure, but of course they didn't publish it.
I think his experiment was a useful step in the right direction.
Penny Arcade's take (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Penny Arcade's take (Score:2, Interesting)
the only reason "they don't work now" is because nobody can be bothered putting in a little bit of framework!
i've had micropayments working on my blog of all things, for the last year, and they're worked wonderfully.
basically all you need is a bit of code that only lets people view so many pages before it stops them and says "you've viewed X pages, to go further you have to pay for those ones. the best bet is to pay up a bit further so you don't see this message again in a while"
it's not strictly micropayments, as people generally pay in lumps, but it *definately* works. i've been covering hosting costs plus a little on the side via that method for long enough to prove that it wasn't just an initial fluke.
Re:Penny Arcade's take (Score:2)
Well, it depends on your target demographic. In addition to code on your webpage, you need to have a readership that is both loyal and has credit cards. Also, you need to deal in monetary amounts that are worth the trouble and cost of accepting credit cards. But if you are a web comic with a teenage readership, most of your readership won't have credit cards. And if you are charging a penny or two for a page view, it might cost you that much in credit card transaction fees.
I think the current implementation of micropayments works for some sites, but I don't think it scales very well. I think people will pay to support a site to which they feel they belong. Sites with a sense of community make people feel like they are contributing to something that they have a hand in creating. But once a site gets too big, whatever that point is, asking people for donations and using the honor system don't work. People feel like suckers for bankrolling a "big corporation" that doesn't appreciate or acknowledge the contributions of the readership. A brouhaha like the slashdot moderation controversy [slashdot.org] could decimate a site's paying user base.
But to talk out of both sides of my mouth, the micropayments system is evolving in internet time. Since Penny Arcade posted their comic slamming Mr. McCloud's viewpoint, they went to a donation/reward system that has apparently been working well for them. Perhaps webcomic publishers will pick up the torch dropped by the venture capatilists, and drive innovation on the internet for a while.
I'm surprised that... (Score:2, Interesting)
Adobe's e-book format (Score:1, Troll)
In E-Book Format... (Score:5, Funny)
While it's probably a flagrant breach of the DMCA for me to talk about it, the format involves putting the panels in... now here's the cunning bit... reverse order. By using Rot-Pan, the technical name for ROTating PANels, Adobe intends to use the DMCA to prosecute anyone who simply reads them backwards.
When questioned about using the DMCA to protect such a ludicrously simple encryption technique rather than actually make it genuinely secure, the Bush administration was quoted as saying, "Well, pretzels look simple the surface too but look how complex they really are."
I would discuss this further but the Feds appear to be knocking at my door with a search warrant signed by yet another large corp.
Re:PDF is obstacle to e-books (Score:2, Interesting)
Micropayments (Score:4, Informative)
Although it's over five years old, this Wired article [wired.com] has a nice summary of the challenges that faced and face the idea.
Ccott McCloud, a prominent comics artist, shares his thoughts [scottmccloud.com] in comic form. He humorously addresses these issues from the point of view of an on-line comic artist.
Re:Micropayments (Score:4, Funny)
Comic Business Model (Score:1)
When I read this, my first thought was something stupid about Microsoft. Then I realized there really isn't anything comic about their business model. They're more like a one train thought destruction device. "Must destroy
I'm not saying I have anything against comics. In fact, I'm desperately in search of Lord Pumpkin. But I don't think naming a business model off of the product is right.
Re:Comic Business Model (Score:2)
Imagine, three hundred issues of X-Men online (Score:5, Interesting)
It's perfect, really. The publisher gets paid for books they otherwise wouldn't want to reprint. They could even include new advertisements between the pages, although I'd rather pay more for an ad-less eBook myself. Fans get the back issues they want to read at a fraction of the cost and hassle. Collectors will still get top dollar for the most collectible original, physical publication. Store owners don't have to worry as much about sealing their back issues in taped bags. And the entire industry gets a low-cost kick in the butt.
Of course, there are some losers. Store owners who earn money from non-collectible back issues will have more trouble selling those, even as the collectible back issues become more valuable to fans. Publishers may not make as much money from trade paperbacks collecting popular stories -- then again, there's really no substitute for the printed page, especially where several issues are concerned. But I think the potential increase is worth it. And, of course, the publishers themselves may have to buy back their own back issues in order to make them available online.
Still, it would be an excellent way for Marvel to cash in on the long-running popularity of the X-Men, or DC and Batman, or Dark Horse and Aliens. I can think of plenty of fans and even not-so-fans who'd happily pay $2 per back issue of a known hit when new paper issues of unknown ones are priced at $3 apiece.
Sounds like a great idea. (Score:2)
If their costs were low enough, they could offer free/low-cost subscriptions and track member usage to target print offers. Is the user reading the "Death of Superman" storyline? Why not offer them a special online-only deal on the printed book with the entire storyline? (Kind of like an Amazon system. "People who read this comic also liked these comics/books/merchandise.")
Re:Imagine, three hundred issues of X-Men online (Score:1)
I suspect there is not a lot of demand for eBook versions of comic books, it's not like there is a lot of comic book piracy out there on usenet (aside from some niche manga). Since the comic industry hasn't had to deal with piracy to the same degree as the music or book industry has, I assume most of the appeal of comics is the collectable aspect, which wouldn't be satisfied by selling by them in eBook format.
Re:Imagine, three hundred issues of X-Men online (Score:2)
But trade paperbacks are only available for select, highly-demanded storylines. I'm talking about entire runs of popular titles being available online.
I suspect there is not a lot of demand for eBook versions of comic books, it's not like there is a lot of comic book piracy out there on usenet (aside from some niche manga). Since the comic industry hasn't had to deal with piracy to the same degree as the music or book industry has, I assume most of the appeal of comics is the collectable aspect, which wouldn't be satisfied by selling by them in eBook format.
The main advantages of eBooks would be portability -- having the entire book in one file, instead of 22 files for 22 pages -- and scalability -- having the pages automatically change size to fit my screen. Printability would be an added bonus. Piracy isn't a concern, except in the sense that a publisher would want to prevent individuals from (easily) making their purchased copy available to countless others online for no cost.
Re:Imagine, three hundred issues of X-Men online (Score:2)
Re:Imagine, three hundred issues of X-Men online (Score:2)
Yes, and these current issues would continue to be available in print only for a given length of time, say six or twelve months.
If the publishers go ahead with this, many store owners will make less money from back issues, which will some of them out of business, wich decreases the amount of publicity, which decreases revenue, ad nauseum.
Store owners don't make much money on back issues as it is, except for a small percentage of highly collectible ones. Besides, they almost always make it possible for (reputable) customers to flip through the issue before buying it, so people who don't like the art or story don't buy the back issue anyhow.
However, fans and collectors who know the value of the physical back issue as opposed to a digital copy of it will want to buy and collect those print issues, and it's those people to whom the comic stores today sell most of their back issues. If this approach would do anything, it would improve back issue sales by making it easier for fans to browse back issues they might not normally look at or be able to find.
Start with the classics. (Score:2)
Like all those #1's your grandpa used to read that are now worth a fortune.
Shit, I might subscribe if I could read the comics I own now. They sit there doing nothing but making me money, and I haven't read a one.
Ok, I read a few.
[I've got a friend that claims the comic _book_ industry is a huge rip off. He worked at shows and said they gave stuff away, like to each other. This shit was supposed to be real 'collectors items']
This could be a Sluggy Freelance plot . . . (Score:1)
Keenspace (Score:4, Informative)
What about Keenspot [keenspot.com]?
You don't subscribe to a particular comic but to Keenspot premium [keenspot.org], an ad-free version of all their comics and you get several gifts such as autographed comic books, original artwork, ...
You still can also donate to authors through paypal [paypal.com] if you want to.
And they often seel original art through auctions
Re:Keenspace (Score:2, Interesting)
I agree - this is the way things will really go. Think about it - you don't subscribe to the AP, a regional newsfeed, a city news feed, and a local news feed, do you? No, you just subscribe to a newspaper that contains all of them. Likewise, if all of the comics that I read regularly were in a conglomerate like that, I'd have no problem subscribing to demonstrate how much I've enjoyed Sluggy Freelance, etc. over the years. Keenspot is a good start, at least. You just have to make sure that the money really goes where it needs to go - just like in other artists conglomerates, you don't want the lion's share of the money going to Britney Spears or Scott Adams (better example: Jim Davis); you want your payment to encourage more of the innovative humor that you were looking for in the first place.
It seems to me that the real gravy train for a comic artist would be breaking into a real paper, though. I wonder why more web comics haven't been picked up by major papers recently - they're a lot more fun than the repetitive blandness of being that is Cathy or Garfield or Family Circus (the non-disfunctional one). Although I imagine that web comic authors get used to being able to vary their use of color, number of panels, and layout on an almost daily basis, combined with intense online interaction with fans that you just wouldn't get with the printed page.
Maybe reading Megatokyo in the morning paper is the impossible dream, but I'm not giving up hope. After all, my wife actually sat through Cowboy Bebop last night, so anything's possible :)
Re:Keenspace (Score:1)
The authors probably do get royalties on the special-offer comic books etc that keen sells.
Re:Keenspace (Score:1)
Re:Keenspace (Score:1)
Bad Boys of Computer Science (Score:1)
http://hotzp.com/badboys/archives/021900.html
8-Bit Theatre (Score:2)
The guy who does 8-Bit Theatre [nuklearpower.com] just started attempting to do the webcomic thing full-time. He's only around 20 years old, so no great risk if he fails, but I certainly expect his non-comic updates to get more amusing.
Of course, given the nature of the comic (8BT is a webcomic that uses Final Fantasy 1 sprites), I expect Square to sue him if he starts to do okay.
-Grant/JimTheta
saving this one (Score:1)
Adding that one to my bookmarks right now
Fantagraphics (Score:1, Interesting)
I enjoy this in print, however if Clowes or Peter Bagge or Bill Griffith were to do an online version, I'd gladly pay.
I still love the Dilbert model... (Score:1)
Re:I still love the Dilbert model... (Score:2)
Hehe, we can learn a lot from Yogurt.
Micropayments and other things. (Score:3, Insightful)
It also differs on the artist's needs. If he's just trying to cover his bandwidth costs, he has more options than if he's trying to use the web as his only source of income. Even with a readership in the 10's of thousands, it can still be a challenge to do much more than break even.
Ultimately it would work best as a complimentary feature. It's less expensive from the publisher's point of view, and that should certainly be taken into account when considering the per-issue pricing scheme. But as other posters have mentioned, some value of the comic's is the collectable value as well as the content value.
-Restil
And some of us have filtering... (Score:2)
Kjella
Bring Back the Classics! (Score:1)
There's no money in online comics. (Score:5, Interesting)
This is partly due to the fact that the online advertising model is dead and/or severely flawed. Last year I grossed (yes grossed) around $3 and my poor readers suffered a bevy of pop-ups, pop-unders and other flashing menaces. Likewise the model of pay-per-download just doesn't work -people won't pay to be mildly entertained when then they can get the same stuff for free.
Ultimately, this caused me to abandon the comic, ending my adventure in online comics just as quickly as it began. Then something unexpected happened. People actually emailed me wondering what happened to the comic. For some unknown reason, they actually cared that my tiny contribution to the world of online comics vanished. And for me, that was enough to try and bring it back. So this February it returns.
If there's a point to any of this, it's that not everything has to be about money. The internet can be more than a virtual marketplace, if only people are willing to work at it. Sure, I'd love to make money from this, but just knowing that people get some enjoyment out of something I do has its perks. And it's good enough for me.
It's enough for me too. (Score:1)
Well, I admit I'm not quite talented as a cartoonist (I'm better off as a computer programmer ^_^), but even if I were, I know how things work here, and so I don't expect to get a dime for it. Ever.
It's something I wanted to do for fun. That's all.
Re:There's no money in online comics. (Score:1)
I have a webcomic too, and it is payment enough that people bother to read it and give us feedback. I look at webcartooning as kind of like starting a rock band- even though it's possible to make money at it, it is the worst sort of venture to engage in if money is your goal.
There are simply so many web comics out there, that your chances for commercial success are very unfavorable. If you develop a payment system for your comic, why would anyone choose to pay, when they have literally tens of thousands of other comics they can see for free?
You do it first and foremost because you have a passion for it, and you want to expose your art to appreciative people.
Anyone who does it for the money won't last long in this field.
Great Idea (Score:1)
Great money making idea (Score:1, Funny)
no linux ebook reader? (Score:1)
Web comics *could* work (Score:1)
Pop up ads *are* the way to go (until the subscription models work out). The real question is whether or not these places will get smart and not allow those using ad killers [cnet.com] (such as Guard-IE [tucows.com].
If everyone used these types of programs, then no one would buy ad space.
I'm a bit miffed... (Score:3, Insightful)
The big players in the print industry seem to be the only guys getting real attention when it comes to producing "comics" on the web.
What about the Keenspot [keenspot.com] or the Keenspace [keenspace] groups? They have a valid revenue model, even if they aren't making a ton of money(making money is a secondary concern to them). Heck, they're doing the opposite of the big boys: Moving from the 'net to print media. (Check for Roomies! and Superosity in your local comic store)
Another group is , which hosts, among other comics, [purrsia.com] Algernons Dilemma [algernonsdilemma.com].
There are the big ones you've probably heard of, PvP [pvponline.com] and Sluggy Freelance [sluggy.com] who are actually making a living on their webcomic.
Heck,
Personally, I'd rather these, and others, than the majority of the junk the syndicates, et al, try to push onto the web. Nevermind X-Men, give me it's Walky! [itswalky.com]
Disclaimer: I run a webcomic, so this story pushed my buttons
J. T. MacLeod
-------------
UBERGEEK the Comic. Umlauts be danged.
http://ubergeekthecomic.com [ubergeekthecomic.com]
It's neato!
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What they forgot to mention RE: Stan Lee Media (Score:1)
If you can imagine the most hackneyed plots, stereotypical characters, and stilted dialog of comics published 30 years ago, you've pretty much got the gist of content Stan Lee Media had to offer. Which is a shame, because they had a very talented team of artists and animators.
searchable? (Score:2)
The best webcomics are free (Score:2)
"Stupid pop-up ads," (Score:1)
Hmmm -- exactly what I was wondering when I arrive d at the Tribune web site [chicagotribune.com].
KeenSpot doesn't seem to be mentioned (Score:1, Redundant)
I have no idea how well they are doing, but I frequent:
www.rpgworldcomic.com [rpgworldcomic.com]
www.crfh.net [crfh.net]
www.bobbins.org [bobbins.org]
and a couple others.
-If
Re:KeenSpot doesn't seem to be mentioned (Score:2)
Re:KeenSpot doesn't seem to be mentioned (Score:2)
Exploitation Now isn't hosted by Keenspace. It was when it started out, but it got accepted into Keenspot (spot, not space) a while back and has been on the Keenspot servers ever since.
How I would approach this... (Score:2)
I think there are people scared of the idea of once they sell a few copies, they propogate virally and nobody pays for it. I know that has me a bit spooked, but I have a few ideas that might be useful.
- There needs to be new content regularly. The faster, the better. That keeps people checking with the site instead of checking Morpheus every so often.
- Sell things besides the content itself. You can transmit comics/animations/movies etc around the web, but you cannot transmit T-shirts, coffee mugs, and little figurines etc.
- Make distributed content worth something. I want to do an animated cartoon, right? One approach is the 'to be continued...' story that requires multiple parts to get the whole thing. If somebody gets only one or two episodes, the best way to get the rest is from my site. I think comics could work this way too, admittedly they'd propogate easier though given their smaller file size.
- Include a coupon with the content. "Mention this comic and you'll get $2 off a T-shirt, go to our site at www.comicbookname.com." With this approach, even pirated works are of value because it's possible some people will buy some of your merchandise. If the ads/coupons aren't too intrusive (don't put a 30 second commercial in it! >:I ) nobody'll edit them out.
- Consider a subscription model. Give away a few episodes, ideally so they have some type of cliffhanger that just keeps your eyes glued, and say 'for $x a year you can have unlimited access to downloads' or something like that. Even if that isn't too profitable, at least you have SOME people out there getting vids and getting them around the web.
- Use the content as a commercial for merchandise. Do you all remember the Transformers cartoon? That cartoon was seriously a 20 minute commerical for toys disguised as a cartoon. If the artwork of the comic/cartoon is interesting and unique enough, turning it into a marketing device for t-shirts/posters/coffee mugs etc really isn't that difficult. I'll give you an example, there was a Dilbert cartoon where Dilbert had a doll of his boss sitting on his monitor. The boss asked what that was about, Dilbert replied "It lifts my spirit to have a likeness of you near by." The boss left, feeling good about what Dilbert told him. As soon as he walked out, Dilbert backhanded the doll off his monitor and said "Stop barging in while I'm working!" From what Scott Adams said in one of his books, a bunch of people wrote in wanting one of those dolls.
I think one thing Hollywood and the Record Industry needs to learn is that they should care about the money they are getting instead of worrying about the money they aren't getting.
hmmm (Score:1)
Re:hmmm (Score:1)
I don't pretend to know how to make money with online comics, but I can tell you that many webcomics could cut their bandwidth bills in half by optimizing their images:
1. Stop using GIFs! Fer crying out loud, use PNG images indexed to 256 or less colors. You don't have to worry about Unisys royalties [burnallgifs.org] or any such nonsense, and it compresses much more efficiently than GIF.
2. If you use PNG images, further compress them with pngcrush [sourceforge.net]. It's free and doesn't degrade image quality at all.
3. If you use JPEG, use jpegoptim [cc.jyu.fi] to optimize compression losslessly. The results may not be too dramatic, but every byte counts.
Drake Emko
http://hackles.org [hackles.org] (nerdy animal fun!)
Make money like Disney, et al. (Score:1)
Personally, I think the best comics will stay free, and they'll make their dough on concrete items.
I'm just thinking about myself and my friends, and most of us have bought a shirt or two from their favorite on-line comic. I personally have both User Frendly and GPF wear because the comics are funny enough to follow daily and the shirts are funny enough on their own, and as reference to the comic.
A note to anyone reading this who has a web-comic: I don't care if I'm paying $15 versus $20 bucks for the shirt: take your profit for your creative output on the shirt, please! Just don't mark them up 200 percent, and I'll buy a shirt if I think it's funny enough.
You cannot collect 0's and 1's (Score:3, Insightful)
As anyone who's ever collected comics knows, it's the scarcity of comics that helps create their demand and popularity over time, not their wide distribution. How many of you have an X-Men #94? Amazing Fantasy #15? Detective Comics #27? But if you did, you'd cherish it like an heirloom, you'd pass it to your children when they got old enough to know the difference between acid-free backing boards and regular cardboard.
Sure, widespread distribution will help if all you want to do is read the comics, but that's not where their value comes from. The important thing is that I have an Avengers #3, and you have an Avengers #16, and if we're going to trade, yours better be in mint condition.
There's just something very visceral and male about holding a rare comic book. What am I gonna do, have a swapable harddrive of Marvel and DC. "Hey, check out KaZaa, they've got the latest Superman story." Bah! There are some things that technology simply cannot improve on.
Re:You cannot collect 0's and 1's (Score:2)
Sure, widespread distribution will help if all you want to do is read the comics, but that's not where their value comes from.
Bah.
The value of comics is the same value of books, movies, or other media. Creators want to entertain and make some money. Readers want to be entertained and are willing to pay for privledge. Readers don't care about scarcity. It doesn't matter if ten or a million copies exist, a good comic is a good comic.
Collectors helped overinflate the comic book industry. Collectors can be thanked for the gluts of special covers, new "Issue #1"s of old series, and other stunts that drove away readers. When the bubble popped, many loyal readers were gone, leaving the industry in a shambles.
Do comic book readers want many of those collectable comics? Sure. There is the curiosity value and the chance to re-read your old favorite. Scarcity isn't important. A reader will be quite happy with a nice reprint.
I have a comic book collection, but I'm not a collector. I purchase comics for the love of reading them. They are good comics, so I want to share them with other comic readers. As a result, I try to keep them in good shape. But because what is important is that you can read them, not that's it's "collectable," I don't stress over minor tears, fading, folds, or wear marks.
"Collectors" must die (Score:2)
Comics collecting started when some people realized that comics readers would get nostalgic for old issues they once read, and would be willing to pay decent (or, in the case of really ancient comics like Action Comics #1, indecent) sums of money to read them again. Then it became a game of speculation, where one collector (thinking that the price has plateaued) would sell to another (betting that the price will rise). At some point, it ceased to be about betting that some comics lover will want to reread a back issue, and became about betting that some other guy will want to resell it. It became just a big pyramid scheme.
Meanwhile, the major studios catered to the speculators (who would actually buy ten copies of a single issue if they all had different covers) and stopped writing and drawing stories that were fun to read. Hell, at the height of the collecting bubble, Marvel and DC could have printed comics filled with blank pages (after all, once somebody has picked it up without sterile gloves and opened it, it isn't "mint condition" anymore), and idiot "collectors" would have snatched them up as long as there was a woman with breasts the size of Volkswagon beetles in spandex holding an AK-47 on the cover. Fortunately, they still had enough self-respect left to actually print stuff on the inside pages, although it was rarely readable. Then, when some collectors realized that all they were doing was selling these things to each other in circles, the market collapsed, and the studios are now stuck trying to appeal to comic readers, a group they nearly destroyed through neglect.
In short, collectors do nothing but damage to the comics industry, subsidizing talentless hacks like Rob Liefeld, driving off readers, and generally making life miserable for the rest of us.
Little Help for the Non DC/Marvel crowd (Score:2, Informative)
X-Men #94 - Introduction of the new team including Wolverine, Collosus, Storm, NightCrawler, etc...
Amazing Fantasy #15 - here for more [samruby.com] - First appearance of Spider Man.
Detective Comics #27 - pic [fanuniverse.com] First appearance of Batman
The reason... (Score:2)
Take the following situation:
A) Good comic guy A starts charing
B) New comic guy B scans a few comics he drew in school and puts them up on his site.
C) New comic guy B's comics become famous.
D) Increased visiting.
And that'll be on a loop.
Of course, I could be wrong.
WebComics.com (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, we of course have been trying to deal with this making money thing for 6 years at WebComics. We've had competitors come and go (like toonscape.com and mycomics.com) which all thought they could make lots of money I guess. As with most messed up web companies, the problem is very simple, they just spend too much money. The web lets you do things so efficiently and a company has to take advantage of that.
Penny Arcade (Score:2)
Universities provide free bandwidth (Score:2)
Another excellent web comic that uses a university to avoid bandwidth expenses is Jorge Cham's PhD [stanford.edu].
My favourite line in the article (Score:2)
Because of course, we know that books NEVER go out of print...
I guess the person doesn't realize that once the comic market became a *collectible* market (oh, say 20-30 years ago?), fans would never stand for continual reprint after reprint of old/rare issues. The odd trade paperback collection, or reprints of very old and unique issues perhaps. Also, the demand just isn't there for every comic to be in print continuously.
Comics as a collectable medium (Score:2)
The existance of web comics (i.e. comics in some downloadable medium, say PDF) cannot co-exist with real comics without having diverse effects. If I can download a PDF of X-Men 118 for $1.50 then why is the original $25? Sure it's a collectable, but there's the rub. Let's say a few years/months off in the future Marvel decides to digitize it's entire line. Paper costs are too high and print runs are abolished. All comics are put online for you to download for a minimum fee. Of course now Marvel has a problem that they're not about to recoup any costs from comic shops for the printing since there is none. Sure it's cheap to distribute but now there are also 10,000 copies of it floating around on Morpheus and peoples websites. Where's the collectable value in that?
Personally I'd like to have my collection in digital form and maybe that's the alternative. Just scan the whole lot of them and stash the originals away until they're worth $10,000 on eBay. The collecting of comics is what is the focus. Sure the content is important to a certain extent, but look at the rush (and increase in value) when a John Byrne, Neal Adams or Michael Turner book goes up on the block. The book has some value and that value is meant to increase because of various things. Resale value, content, character, artist/writer, scarcity, etc. Now imagine again if all books (or even some of them) were in PDF format. There's no real sense in obtaining it except for just reading and admiring the artwork. Anyone can own a copy just by downloading it and wheres the fun in that? Then what happens at conventions when your favorite writer/artist is scheduled? You print off a copy at Kinkos and bring it in to be signed?
One thing is possible here. The expandibility of the comic book to an electronic medium. Remember when everyone bought VHS movies just to own them? Now everyone is buying DVD to get the extra content. Imagine if you could download your own PDF comic of X-Men and view it in pencil, ink, color or production mode? Maybe even have the pre-production sketches that went into the making of the comic. Now THAT would be something to own. Let's see the media extended rather than transferred.
Anyways, whatever business model a comic company thinks they can fit into cannot measure up to the collectable value of a true comic book. The online guys that are selling content are doing so because they don't live in the same universe Marvel, DC and others do and don't distribute millions of copies each week.
Just my 2c
liB