BBC Trust to Meet With OSC Over iPlayer

Virgil Tibbs writes "With the Launch of the BBC's iPlayer imminent, the BBC trust has agreed to hear the Open Source Consortium's concerns regarding the BBC iPlayer's tie in with Microsoft's software. The move by the BBC to use Windows Media DRM & their apparent lack of commitment towards other platforms has caused outrage in many circles and prompted several online petitions."

Online petition, oh noes!

Does anyone recall any online petition that actually caused change?

Several Online Petitions!

I bet they're scared now!

Whats the Problem??

The BBC said they are going to look at other platforms later. They are just making downloads available to the vast majority of the people who paid for it first, this is normal.

This is like 4oD [channel4.com] and SKY Anytime [sky.com] which currently only work with Windows XP (not even Vista). I'm sure they will be updatiung their software for at least Vista and Mac soon enough. It not like they said NO is it!

Re:Whats the Problem??

``The BBC said they are going to look at other platforms later. They are just making downloads available to the vast majority of the people who paid for it first, this is normal. ''

Normal in that it is common practice, perhaps, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with it. The problem is that they are (currently, and that's why there _currently_ is a problem) making downloads available only in a proprietary format. This incurs all the problems with proprietary formats [inglorion.net], including, but not limited to locking out would-be users, no guarantee of future access to data, and preventing the great capitalist mechanism of competition from doing its work.

Their decision to use Microsoft's proprietary formats puzzles me, because the BBC has often been in the news for actually using open formats, and they used to actually work on an open format and player, themselves. Why did they decide to go for a proprietary format in this case?

Re:Whats the Problem??

``Why did they decide to go for a proprietary format in this case?''

The answer to that seems to be DRM. The BBC wants to put certain restrictions on the usage of the media. As we all know, the only way they can enforce these restrictions is by retaining some measure of control. To exercise this control, they need to keep secret how the media is played, or it would be possible to play the media without bypassing the control. Thus, open formats are right out.

Re:Whats the Problem??

Their decision to use Microsoft's proprietary formats puzzles me, because the BBC has often been in the news for actually using open formats, and they used to actually work on an open format and player, themselves. Why did they decide to go for a proprietary format in this case?

From the fine article:

the files would require DRM to ensure that they were appropriately restricted in terms of time and geographic consumption. The only system that currently provides this security is Windows Media 10 and above. Further, the only comprehensively deployed operating system that currently supports Windows Media Player 10 and above is the Windows XP operating system.

At first glance, it the above statement appears reasonable enough. The problem is life is rarely so simple. ;-) As for the OP's statement that this is normal to use a platform-specific approach:

But choosing Microsoft's DRM is not just a neutral "doing something", it is doing absolutely the wrong thing - which is far worse than "doing nothing". It would provide a huge propaganda victory for Microsoft and its DRM scheme, just at the time when even people like Steve Jobs are casting doubt on the efficacy of DRM in general. The last thing we need now is for Microsoft to be able to go around to other broadcasters and music companies and say: "See, even the famously objective BBC has chosen our DRM; this proves it's the best. Why don't you follow suit?"

If you put aside the unecessary rhetoric and narrow focus, the real issue becomes obvious, and that is that the BBC has responsibility to implement a platform agnostic (which means not only Windows users, or, for that matter, Windows plus "Mac and Linux users") approach in the face of all the issues brought about by new technology.

Re:Whats the Problem??

By making the solution Windows only, the BBC are forcing you to buy commercial software from Microsoft in order to view their programmes. This is just like saying "You must have a Sky subscription to view BBC programmes".

Because we all pay for those BBC programmes with the special TV tax, this is unacceptable. We should be able to view the programmes without having to pay for an OS. Making a version for Mac doesn't change that, as it's still not free. Where's the equivalent of "Freeview" - "no subscription required"?

I don't care about 4od or Sky because my TV licence money has not paid for them. They're Windows only? Fine, whatever, I won't watch them. But the BBC's iPlayer is different, because my TV licence money has paid for it. Even though I have the required hardware and a decent net connection, I can't use it, because I don't have Windows XP. Apparently, I need to buy more software for my "television".

(Refer to the previous version of this topic [slashdot.org] for various reasons why it's a bad thing - there isn't enough news, so there have to be repeats...)

Coincidence?

Interesting that this occurred shortly after one of the top bods in BBC new media is off to OFCOM shortly...

http://www.tomski.com/2007/06/from_bbc_to_psp_via_ wtf.shtml [tomski.com]

Bed partners

Being English, and having to buy a TV licence*, I think what the BBC are doing with licence payers money borders on being illegal. You cannot take money from people then bar them from the purpose of that licence - this is definitely MS driven with the BBC in cahoots with them (remember, the BBC is a very similar monopoly like MS and allowed to be by the Politicians 'in hand').

Nick
* Not having a TV licence in the UK is very serious - you will be hounded incessantly and even get visits by the BBC licence people late at night (MIBS). The onslaught of not having a TV licence is very similar to deliberate tax evasion, but worse.

Re:Bed partners

NTSC isn't "owned" by anyone, it is a standard more like MPEG while Wmedia belongs to Microsoft. It doesn't work anywhere except Windows. It doesn't work fine on OS X, Linux, FreeBSD and anything handheld except WinCE devices.

Also you can transcode/convert anything from PAL to NTSC. There is nothing stopping you. There is no such thing as "PAL will only work in xxxxx brand and you will be pirating if you convert/transcode to NTSC to view on your set".

Lets say you are a foreigner interested in BBC content and you hate piracy. You download the stuff on Windows Machine you own (and paid to MS) and for example you transcode it to a standard format like H264 or pure mpeg 4 to view on Apple TV or machine. You _will_ be breaching the license very seriously. First you would be hacking the DRM and secondly you would be transcoding.

One (if British) should ask: If BBC needs to make such weird sounding, suspicious agreements with a company condemned by EU for monopoly practices (MS Wmedia), why do they need to take money from TV licensing? If they need more money, there is always cash in Adult business but even Adult sites lets people to choose their media format. :)

Re:Bed partners

You cannot take money from people then bar them from the purpose of that licence - this is definitely MS driven with the BBC in cahoots with them (remember, the BBC is a very similar monopoly like MS and allowed to be by the Politicians 'in hand').

Where to start...

Firstly, the BBC has a charter that it must abide by. While I, like you, would like to see the BBC develop its online content across as many platforms as possible (including MacOS and Linux) I think it's important to realise that making content available to everybody on every platform is not in the charter.

If the BBC were to roll out content that required a certain platform or (even platforms) then it wouldn't be in breach of its charter: if I wanted to access the content on BeOS, or OS/2, I don't have the "right" to demand that the BBC makes it happen.

While I have no doubt that it will eventually make content available on the big three (Windows, MacOS, Linux) there's nothing to stop the BBC making its first steps on one of the platforms only.

You'll notice that the BBC has several DAB-only radio stations. Well, just because I don't have a DAB radio, I'm not entitled to demand that those radio stations are made available to me via the analogue airwaves, am I?

Secondly, the BBC is not a monopoly. There are dozens of other TV broadcasters in the UK, dozens of other radio broadcasters and hundreds of news websites. The BBC may be the only one of them to benefit from the TV licence but it's not a monopoly.

Re:Bed partners

GP is right. Why not try ringing the licensing hotline? Or read these quotes from their website:

Under the Communications Act 2003, you need a television licence to receive or record television programmes.

You don't, therefore, need a license if you don't receive or record television programmes. Another quote:

What if I only use a TV to watch videos/DVDs/as a monitor for my games console? Do I still need a licence?

You need to notify us in writing that this is the case and one of our Enforcement Officers may need to visit you to confirm that you do not need a licence.

Source: TV Licensing FAQ, under 'General questions' [tvlicensing.co.uk].

There. YOU DO NOT NEED A LICENSE IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE TELEVISION PROGRAMMES ON YOUR TELEVISION. Can you stop being so fucking retarded now? You're making my head hurt.

Are you lying or are you clueless? Which is it?

Do you work for Sky or something? It would at least explain why you're spouting total rubbish.

A typical hour of BBC programming might have one or two 30 second trailers for upcoming programmes in it, and these trailers will be shown in the intervals between programmes: they certainly won't ever interrupt them.

There is no way that you can ever claim that there is a 24 minute programme followed by 6 minutes of ads, followed by another 24 minute programme and then another 6 minutes of ads.

Your claim that "[the BBC's] 'TV' hour is still 48 minutes" is complete and utter rubbish.

Either you're lying through your teeth or your completely clueless. Either way, I wish you'd stop making such ridiculous comments because they add nothing to the debate.

Uh-oh...

Didn't Cowboyneal mean to post this on slashdot.co.uk?

OSC?

Did anyone else see this and wonder why Orson Scott Card would meet with the BBC about the iplayer?

What's more interesting....

Is that alternate computing platforms have finally started to gain enough clout that those choosing Microsoft only solutions will have to think twice about ignoring non-windows platforms.

3 or 4 years ago choosing a windows only solution would not cause you any pain. Increasingly, for popular internet multimedia sites, choosing a Windows only solution is more likely to cause you pain.

I consider this a good thing.

Another dupe

This story dupes BBC Trust Will Hear iPlayer Openness Complaints [slashdot.org]

And don't tell me that it's an "update" because they both source the same Register story. [theregister.co.uk]

an online petition!

An online petition! That should have them quaking in their boots in no time!

Re:Even more outrage...

Maybe CowboyNeal could post a weekly mash up of all stories he found particularly interesting, instead of duping them. In case you were wondering: I don't find the additional links to linuxjournal and currybet interesting. Fewer then 200 comments, most of them obvious spam. Additionally, everyone knows that intelligent people post on Slashdot.
Don't even get me started about http://digital-lifestyles.info/ [digital-lifestyles.info]

Re:Dupe!

Well this just illustrates the danger of distributing DRM-free media! With properly enforced Rights Management, it would be impossible for stories to be duplicated in this way without authorisation!

On a related note, there seems to be some sort of hardware crack for obtaining unencrypted BBC media streams. Someone calling himself 'freeview' has hacked together a circumvention device (commonly called a 'freeview box', possibly a reference to the old phone phreak 'coloured boxes') that gives 24/7 access to DRM-free BBC digital content. These devices are quite widely available (try ebay.co.uk, or google for 'argos') but up to now have escaped the attention of the BBC Trust, so be careful who you tell...