EFF Gets Meeting With Adobe

A number of people have sent in the e-mail that just crossed the free-sklyarov mailing list, that essentially states that the EFF and Adobe will have a meeting July 23rd. They are putting planned protest on hold. Click below for more information.Update: 07/20 11:25 PM by H : Thanks to all the folks who e-mailed me; the EFF is asking for the protests to be put on hold, but from what I've seen in my inbox, the protests are still being planned. To reinforce this: The EFF is asking to hold off on the protests, but planners are still moving ahead with this.

h-=-

Congratulations folks!

The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, July 23.

For that reason, EFF has decided to:

PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD

Please help us act in good faith and postpone the protest until we have a chance to negotiate with Adobe.

Of course, we can always rekindle the protest if Adobe does not agree to withdraw their complaint to the US Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov and to refuse to pursue further prosecutions under the DMCA for cases that should be prevented under fair use provisions of US copyright law.

And also, if the US Attorney's office insists on prosecuting Dmitry without a current complaint from Adobe, then we will continue protests directed at them rather than at Adobe.

If you still feel that you have to protest on Monday, you are of course free to do so. However, it may be a more effective use of our collective energies to act in a coordinated way to get Dmitry out of jail.

I am writing a media release to this effect as soon as I sent this email to you... wanted you all to know first.

Free Dmitry,

Will Doherty
Online Activist / Media Relations
Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)
Web http://www.eff.org

World of Difference

There's a world of difference between 'on hold' and 'cancelled'. Please fix the headline, Hemos. Protest also needs a 't' ;-).

DO NOT CANCEL THE PROTESTS!!!

DO NOT CANCEL THE PROTESTS!

What good is adobe going to do, they have 0 legal jurisdiction over getting Dmitry out of jail.

This just goes to show that Adobe is afraid of the bad press.

Adobe is going to welcome the EFF team, blow smoke up their asses for half of an hour and show them the door.

DO NOT CANCEL THE PROTEST, once you stop this momentum you will not regain it.

Maybe attention should be focused on the FBI, DOJ, and Congress for passing such a farcical law.

Just who are EFF working for anyhow?
Does anyone at EFF care to disclose just how much Adobe Donates to them anually?

anonymous hero
--
This message secured by Quadruple Rot-56 encryption technology.
Unauthorized decryption prohibited under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.
Violators will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
*snicker*

Re:Settle down skippy

"He" didn't sell the software anywhere. The company he works for did. Why was he arrested? Even if they had reason to arrest someone, why was he the only one arrested? Why not the company CEO who was also there?

Re:Protest NOT Cancelled!

I love this country, I just hate the government that's running it.

The country has the government it deserves.

But really, isn't the government an important part of every country? How is it possible to love something and at the same time hate an integral part of it?

--

Hope this isn't a put-up job...

The EFF is staffed by some pretty canny people, so I wouldn't think they would be fooled too easily. But this sounds like a sop being thrown out by Adobe to quiet things down until attention moves elsewhere, after which the process will start up again.

sPh

Meet at the snake.

Hi, I'm Don Marti, main contact person for the San Jose event.

We will be meeting as planned at the snake sculpture, in downtown San Jose at the corner of S. Market St. and W. San Carlos St., at 11:00 AM.

From there we can march on Adobe or go home as the situation requires.

I would put a Sun Tsu quote here but I am pretty busy right about now.

Protest NOT Cancelled!

Despite EFF's requests, the majority of the protest participants believe that EFF is caving too quickly. Adobe has agreed "to talk to the EFF" Monday morning, but solely on the grounds that the EFF "calls off the dogs" so to speak.

Most of us feel that this is proof positive that the effectiveness of the protests is working, and that they must continue to operate under a deadline of Monday.

EFF folks were quoted as saying that (paraphrased) "Adobe couldn't get the right people in the room" over the weekend. There's nowhere on the planet they couldn't get the right people into the room if they wanted to, so they obviously value "something else" (whether its a business deal or someone's tee-time) more than they value solving this dilemma they're in.

Nothing stops until that guy is on a jet in international airspace departing the US a free man.

The irony -- to DEPART the US to become a Free Man. *sigh*

Re:DENVER MEETING IS STILL ON

Having attended this meeting, I can say the Denver protesters are going to change the emphasis of the protest slightly. Because Adobe is willing to talk to the EFF, we're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, so instead of protesting Adobe, we're protesting against the DMCA at the Denver Federal Courthouse, and protesting against the FBI & the Justice Department for jailing Sklyarov for violating the DMCA.

Re:Protest NOT Cancelled!

Did not break US law because it did not happen in the US and the US has no jurisdiction over what a Russian citizen does in Russia. And considering that what he did in Russia is not even illegal there, there really truly is something wrong with this scenario.

To me this is like visiting China and getting arrested because they've learned (in one way or another) that you surfed the internet for porn while you were at home...

And giving a talk about something at a conference is and has always been protected by free speech.

Re:Terrible Headline, Hemos

I would say that Slashdot just made a mistake. But... There's another POV:

Slashdot and EFF are the 'legitimate' and publicly accepted arms of the lunatic fringe. The people organizing the protest are the armed combatants and the nuts who give the EFF and /. their voice.

I might be looking at getting a serious down-modding, but it seems similar to the Sin Fein (sorry for butchering the spelling) and the IRA. Or similar splits amongst various Muslim groups.

One group comes to the table and talks. The other group beats on the windows and burns cars outside.

I find myself a fence-sitter. I was prepared to take off of work Monday had their been a protest in Wash. DC or Richmond, but I might very well have backed down.

My real concern is that the Monday protest would have likely gathered numbers due to the emotions involved. By delaying it, even if only for a few days, emotions will cool (especially other fencesitters, as well as those in the totally rational front) and the turnout will likely be less. The upshot is that more time=more chance to get the word out.

So, without playing devil's advocate: I think /. made a slight mistake in word usage (given their overall poor grammar, this is no surprise). But it can also be viewed as one member of one of the parts of the movement trying to cool down some hot heads. Unfortunately, rather than people listening to protesters, they are beating the shit out of them, and making efforts to conduct their meetings and so forth without an opportunity for protest at all. (The virtual WTO summit ideas, ie)

Re:It's sad, but we'd be better if he goes to tria

Isn't that why the EFF is pursuing the Felten case [slashdot.org]?

Screw Adobe

I'm still pissed that the FBI, the frigging armed police of the government, arrested him based solely on the complaint of Adobe.

He's a frigging citizen of another country, and the software he wrote is not bound by the DMCA. IANAL, but it seems to me that the FBI has gotten themselves in a ton of hot water.

My question is, why hasn't the Russian Consulate raised a stink about this? Or, have they, and the DOJ is keeping it all hush hush?

The Revised Classic Bully

Whether or not we agree with their reasoning, (and I do NOT), I hope the industry takes notice at how problems can be solved without resorting to bully tactics.

Interesting observation. Lets extend this idea to a classical "bully" definition.

I go around the school yard and threaten to beat up little kids unless they do what I want. By this rational, I'm not a bully until I actually hit someone. The agreement that the little kid gives me their milk money and in turn I won't put my fist in to their face - well, that's just rational thought.

Re:Screw Adobe

You obviously don't understand ROT-13. From the Jargon File:

rot13: /rot ther'teen/ [{Usenet}: from "rotate alphabet 13 places"], v. The simple Caesar-cypher encryption that replaces each English letter with the one 13 places forward or back along the alphabet, so that "The butler did it!" becomes "Gur ohgyre qvq vg!" Most {Usenet} news reading and posting programs include a rot13 feature. It is used to enclose the text in a sealed wrapper that the reader must choose to open - e.g. for posting things that might offend some readers, or {spoiler}s. A major advantage of rot13 over rot(N) for other N is that it is self-inverse, so the same code can be used for encoding and decoding. [{Jargon File}]

In other words, I hereby forbid you under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, to decode, or distribute a device to decode, or distribute the decoded form of, the following copyrighted work, without prior written consent from myself:

V guvax V'yy nccyl sbe n cngrag ba EBG-13.

If you decode this, or sold a device that decodes this, you can be charged under U.S. criminal law. That kinda sucks, doesn't it?

------

Additional Info

I do not agree with Will's reasoning, but here is additional background information he supplied on the situation:

Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put the Monday, July 23 protest on hold.

We would like to believe that Adobe will be negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's style to engage in punitive protests when there is hope of a negotiated solution.

If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize Adobe, that may escalate the situation, preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, and keep Dmitry in jail.

I think should treat this as a partial victory... we have succeeded in getting to the table in a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage to get some concrete action. And if they don't budge, we can still protest. Those who offered the favors once hopefully did so because we have an important cause here, and will likely do so again.

I am glad to hear everyone's comments about this and look forward to working together to get Dmitry out of jail and end further unfair DMCA prosecutions.

Free Dmitry,

Will Doherty
Online Activist / Media Relations
Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)
Web http://www.eff.org

THE BOSTON PROTEST IS STILL ON!

See http://freesklyarov.org/boston [freesklyarov.org] for more info. Many other groups will still be protesting on Monday, as well. It's rather irresponsible of Slashdot to infer that the game's over!

This makes sense

Will is trying to negotiate in good faith with Adobe. Putting the protest on hold pending such discussion is appropriate. People need to be ready to resume at any moment, however, if Adobe is full of shit.

Expect Condesention

While it may seem as if Adobe is folding, don't expect it. The DMCA is the law of the land, and Adobe would be foolish not to do exploit it as best they can.

If you want the DMCA gone, write your congressman, practice civil disobedience, and for Martin Luther King's sake, *take a case to court!*

The GPL survives in legal limbo because it's never been tested in court--and this is because those would benefit most from going to court (those who's work revolves around the GPL) would rather settle than risk legal correction.

Don't expect the same thing to work with the DMCA. Heck, don't expect anything short of a diplomatic incident to change the FBI's mind... they're officers of the law, who's job it is to gather cases against those who break the law.

(Yes, sometimes the FBI investigates innocents... but it happens. I've been investigated, you've probably been investigated... you might even have been arrested for a crime you didn't commit. Guess what? That's how the law works.)

Remember: those who want the GPL ambiguous and the DMCA unrepealed have deep pockets, and aren't afraid of the cost of a lawsuit. If we want these these things changed, we need to go to court.

Re:Protest NOT Cancelled!

I completely agree. This company is responible for holding a man hostage. Their executives should be meeting with the EFF now. Forcing Dmitri to spend a weekend in jail for this shows no good will by Adobe.

Protest ON!

This *needs* to go to court.

While Dimitry is certainly being treated unfairly, the criminal provisions of the DMCA cannot be thrown out as unconstitutional if it doesn't go to court.

Now, the Goldstien vs. MPAA case may get the civial portions thrown out, but unless I'm mistaken, the act has two seperate components which went into effect at different times. That means they have to be ruled on seperately, right?

Oh well, either way it's nice to see Adobe get a big black eye and a bloody nose!

DENVER MEETING IS STILL ON

The meeting scheduled for tonight regarding the denver protest is still on. This page [unm.edu] has the details

Re:This *needs* to go to court.

"Well, of course, what he did *was* a crime, at least by our fucked-up standards. Is it fair? No. Is it just? No. Is it constitutional? Only up until a federal judge says its not."

Why does the DMCA have any weight right now? Because a conflicted judge (Kaplan), who had previously worked for a lawfirm that represented Time-Warner (but nevertheless excoriated the defence lawyer, Martin Garbus for a similar, but FAR weaker conflict, his firm had worked for someone later BOUGHT by Time-Warner), who was one or all of:

1. Corrupt (see conflict of interest)
2. Incompetent (either hasn't read the Constitution, or think it means only what HE thinks it means)
3. An oathbreaker (how did his 2600 ruling and prejustice preserve, protect, defend the Constitution, anyone?)

Came up with a VERY bad decision (DeCSS case), which the news media and the public at large has let him get away with only because the defendants were "hackers".

Methinks if there is going to be protest against the DMCA, someone needs to find out where that bozo works and picket outside it.

Yes, I agree with the subject line, that a case NEEDS to go to court, if there is to be any hope at all of weakening or defeating the DMCA, but I can't morally ask another, especially a foreign national now being held against his will as a political prisoner, to make that sacraifice.

I think Adobe is right now weighing the implications of this case, and the fact that it COULD be devastating to the DMCA, along with the BAD PR they are receiving right now in our community. While it may be true that we as a whole aren't listened to by the media, we DO have considerable influence beyond our numbers in what the companies we work for purchase.

And at this point, I'd even buy MICROSOFT products over Adobe. MS, to my knowledge, isn't the cause of someone being unjustly imprisoned in a country foreign to them.

This case and the case of Professor Felten have the distiction of being the first to seriously display the moral, educational, and social impact of the DMCA, in a way that the 536 co-conspirators (the Senate, House, and President (Clinton who unanimously voted for and signed the DMCA) probably never envisioned.

Personally, I've resolved to NOT vote for ANY of the 535 Congressmen who were in office at the time of the DMCA's passage, as they all voted for it (or at least, failed to vote against it).

Re:Protest NOT Cancelled!

"Obviously, the severity of fascism cannot be compared to the injustice of the DMCA, but still: DMCA was enacted following the standard practices of the US; it is what the country wanted. The legislative process is how the country chooses to express its will. If the DMCA is wrong, then something must be wrong with the country."

The DMCA is != fascism, but it's certainly a "thin end of the wedge" that could lead to such a system. Certainly, tolerating such laws, and elected officials who would create such laws speaks poorly of my countrymen.

Which is the weakness of democracy... History has proven that when given the vote, the majority of the masses will vote themselves "security" over freedom every time, especially when the politicians exploit emotion ("it's for the children"), and crises (Columbine, the Depression) for their own gain.

It's indicative of the resiliency of the Constitutional system that we didn't go over completely after FDR had absolute power to violate the law for 12 years (including setting up concentration camps for AMERICAN citizens of certain nationalities), but every politician SINCE FDR has followed his example of subverting the Constitution for their own gain, which leads us to today, and laws like the DMCA...

This tendancy always leads to the masses voting themselves a dictatorship. This is why it's rare for a democratic form of government to survive more than a few generations.

The USA is actually, the longest lived such government, and it's obvious the cracks are beginning to show, at least to all of us who are paying attention.

Re:Protest NOT Cancelled!

"Did not break US law because it did not happen in the US and the US has no jurisdiction over what a Russian citizen does in Russia. And considering that what he did in Russia is not even illegal there, there really truly is something wrong with this scenario"

Our government acting like this is creating HAZARD for US Citizens travelling or doing business abroad as well. If we do not respect the sovergnity of other nations to live under their own laws, then why should THEY respect ours?

Let's be consistent... The Chinese government, for example, has been guilty of breaking MANY MANY US laws FAR more serious than the DMCA... There is, for example, the small matter of the senseless murder of thousands of protestors in 1989... Why didn't we grab Zhang Jhemin (sp) the last time he visited the USA?

I mean, we used force of bribery to get Yugoslavia to hand over Milosevic, who hadn't broken any law in his country...

Given the US's POOR track record of protecting citizens abroad (particular Chinese-Americans on trial even NOW for dubious claims of "espionage", claims the ChiCom government refuses to provide ANY proof of), cavalier actions like this threaten the security of ALL Americans.

Well...

July 23 is 3 more days that Dimitry will have stay in jail. Wouldn't it make sense to continue to pressure Adobe by bringing the case to light during that time? Take away one person's freedom, smear the name of the offending company.

Sounds fair to me.

Dancin Santa

Essay - DMCA Threatens Individual/Natl Security

From one of my mailing lists...

National Security and Individual Freedoms: How the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) Threatens Both.

The article is here." [infowarrior.org]

A good read, particularly after the crap Adobe is pulling with poor Dmitry.