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Memoirs of a Bystander: Visual Studio.NET development on OS X w/ Parallels 147

A reader writes "There is an interesting blog piece entitled Memoirs of a Bystander: Visual Studio.NET development on OS X w/ Parallels. The piece does a good job talking about development for different environments then the one that you are programming in. " And with the continued rise of more and more heterogeneous environments, this will become more and more common.
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Memoirs of a Bystander: Visual Studio.NET development on OS X w/ Parallels

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  • by BeeBeard ( 999187 ) on Monday October 23, 2006 @10:45AM (#16546438)
    Please stop linking to crappy blogs written by people who think they're important enough to even have "memoirs" and who think they're being oh-so-clever-and-ironic when they juxtapose the terms "memoirs" and "bystander" in their post titles.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Not to mention which, that title makes exactly 0 sense. So he nails the "pompous" and "incomprehensible" exacta.
    • by Otter ( 3800 ) on Monday October 23, 2006 @11:27AM (#16546960) Journal
      Man, this guy is really taking a hammering here! In his defense:
      • "Memoirs of a Bystander" is the (admittedly pretentious) blog name. The submitter misread the title bar.
      • My understanding is that he's doing primarily Mac (or platform neutral) development, with a little .NET, not full-time .NET. If that's incorrect, I agree that what he's doing is silly and counterproductive.
      • "Slashvertisement" seems unfair, and anyway it's a useful, well-written little piece that's completely distorted in the Slashdot blurb.
      So I'd say this is just the usual case of submitter-illiterate-and-editor-barely-R'dTFA, unless the author is the submitter, in which case you sort of have a point.
      • by bunions ( 970377 )
        I have to agree. I found the article interesting. Not sure why why the slashdot hive-mind has taken such an instant dislike to it.
  • ehum? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Keruo ( 771880 ) * on Monday October 23, 2006 @10:46AM (#16546456)
    Why virtualize .net development?
    Just run monodevelop [monodevelop.com] and do it natively on OS X
    • Re:ehum? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TheGreek ( 2403 ) on Monday October 23, 2006 @10:50AM (#16546516)
      Why virtualize .net development?
      Just run monodevelop and do it natively on OS X
      Probably because:

      1) Monodevelop is a pile of shit right now.
      2) Running said pile of shit inside X11 isn't a "solution."

      Do you actually develop .NET and own a Macintosh?
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by m0rph3us0 ( 549631 )
        Hahah I wasted an entire week trying to get monodevelop working on OS X on Intel. (It never worked). Then I realized It would be cheaper to just buy Parallels, WinXP, and VS.NET. I estimate in less than a month the stack had paid for itself. I target mono on Linux and have found that developing in VS.NET and replicating your project files in .build (for Nant/Linux) files is the best way to go. Eventually I ran monodevelop on Linux and realized that it is a total piece of crap. Wtf is the point of an IDE tha
      • This is something I've really wanted to look into. However, I'd be curious if someone could get a sort of benchmark comparison of VS .NET 2003 development environment in a)Boot Camp b)Crossover Mac [codeweavers.com] or c) Parallels [parallels.com]

        What is the trade-off on speed/functionality with virtualization/WINE-based?
        • by TheGreek ( 2403 )

          What is the trade-off on speed/functionality with virtualization/WINE-based?

          If you need raw performance and don't need to run Mac OS X applications at the same time, Boot Camp is your solution.

          If you need acceptable performance and need to run Mac OS X applications at the same time, use Parallels.

          If you're too fucking tight to buy a copy of Windows after having purchased VS2003 already, then Crossover might work for you, but I really wouldn't do any software development under it.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Not to mention:

        3) Monodevelop isn't the defacto industry standard, Visual Studio is. So no business worth its weight in dog crap is going to consider using it, particularly when it costs a paltry (for business) $800/seat to buy a VS .NET Professional license, versus spending that much on developer time just getting the non-standard Monodevelop app running correctly, much less compiling compatible code they can ship as a professionally-produced product.

        My guess is that the GP is still in college and has nev
      • As the above poster mentioned, monodevelop is actually nowhere near being usable for .NET development. This goes doubly so on a mac.

        Personally, I don't really understand why the community is spending so much effort on putting together another IDE for linux, when several already exist and could be easily extended to work for mono development.

        The most obvious environment would be eclipse, which is highly extensible. A well written plugin for eclipse would do wonders for the mono community. I suspect that the
    • Even simpler (Score:2, Insightful)

      by NineNine ( 235196 )
      Why not get a PC for $25 at your local thrift store and use a $100 copy of Windows? I mean really, it's like going around your ass to get to your elbow. This is just dumb. If you're developing for Windows, you have to be a real masochist to try to do it on another platform, especially when you can use any ol' PC that you find laying around. It's not like a Windows PC is exotic or hard to find or expensive.
      • I don't know about using a $25 PC to do development work, but you're mostly right.

        I mean, it sounds to me like this guy has to deal with Windows for at least eight hours of his day if that's what he uses to do development work. So why not get a development PC and use Remote Desktop (yes, a client exists for Mac)? The GUI is actually very responsive, and seeing as how he's complaining about Parallels refreshing the entire desktop every time a character is typed, I think using a PC via Remote Desktop will w
        • by NickFitz ( 5849 )

          ...seeing as how he's complaining about Parallels refreshing the entire desktop every time a character is typed, I think using a PC via Remote Desktop will win performance-wise quite easily.

          Actually, I think that's something to do with Visual Studio. I've noticed exactly the same thing when using Visual Studio over Remote Desktop Connection via a VPN on an old slow machine (at my end): VS appears to redraw the entire contents of the editor window for every keystroke.

          Also note that he only perceived

          • by wootest ( 694923 )

            Also note that he only perceived that phenomenon when Quartz Debug was running: that's a Mac Developer Tools utility that intercepts every API call related to display rendering and logs it to a GUI. Naturally it slows things down considerably, but it's nothing to do with Parallels exhibiting a problem in performance.

            Quartz Debug does slow things down, but he didn't use it to see how fast it was but *which parts of the screen are being redrawn*.

            I'll have to agree with the solution. I thrive in Mac OS X

          • Actually, I think that's something to do with Visual Studio. I've noticed exactly the same thing when using Visual Studio over Remote Desktop Connection via a VPN on an old slow machine (at my end): VS appears to redraw the entire contents of the editor window for every keystroke.

            I've noticed this too. In fact, with VS2k3, I had a problem where after several hours, text would start getting mangled in the graphical blitting in the text area. It was as though VS2k3 was using DirectDraw to render the textbox

      • Because nobody at Starbucks is going to be impressed by a thrift-store PC. This guy has memoirs to write. You can't write memoirs on a cheap PC. Sheesh.

      • This is just dumb. If you're developing for Windows, you have to be a real masochist to try to do it on another platform, especially when you can use any ol' PC that you find laying around.

        He's not developing for Windows on another platform, for any useful definition of 'platform' (or for any useful definition of 'environment', as it was described in the summary). He's developing for Windows on ... Windows XP. Running on an x86 box. I'm really not sure what's supposed to be so newsworthy about someone r

    • by 0racle ( 667029 )
      Because Mono doesn't support all of the .Net stuff? Because he likes Visual Studio? Because all the cool kids are? Because he wants to?
    • by Tronster ( 25566 )
      Thank you for the link. I hadn't heard of "Monodevelop". It looks promising. If they get to the point of making a native Mac installer, I will take it for a spin.

      Regarding .NET development, if he's like me... it's not about targeting the .NET platform, but creating software to run on Windows that leverage .NET. I'm a developer on the MS platform, and a month ago just bought my first laptop, a 17" MacBook Pro. Right now I'm doing the same type of stuff as "Bystander" but hope in a few months I'll have f
  • Um... huh? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by truthsearch ( 249536 ) on Monday October 23, 2006 @10:47AM (#16546468) Homepage Journal
    The piece does a good job talking about development for different environments then the one that you are programming in.

    No, he's developing .NET apps using Windows. His database is SQL Server. He doesn't want to use Mono. So he's almost definitely developing for Windows. Mac apps have far better native options for development.

    The only tip someone might find useful in this blog post is his informal test of memory settings in Parallels.
    • Geee.... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Savage-Rabbit ( 308260 ) on Monday October 23, 2006 @11:35AM (#16547056)
      No, he's developing .NET apps using Windows. His database is SQL Server. He doesn't want to use Mono. So he's almost definitely developing for Windows. Mac apps have far better native options for development.

      The only tip someone might find useful in this blog post is his informal test of memory settings in Parallels.

      That's a bit harsh. I do the exact same thing as this guy does. I Prefer working with OS.X or failing that Linux as a Desktop OS to working with Windows and I sometimes develop for OS.X and Linux in my spare time using native tools. However at work I also have to use Windows for development purposes as well as for testing and for Windows only apps so I have solved the problem with Parallels and it suits me just fine for all sorts of reasons. For one thing I don't have to deal with the headache of having to juggle a Windows laptop for work as well as a the Mac because Parallels enables me to cram the whole lot, Windows, OS.X and all the devel tools onto my MacBook and a pint sized external drive for the Parallels image files I am not using at the moment. At home I have a more powerful development system built on the same concept but running VMWare for doing stuff my MBP and Parallels can't handle but unfortunately my employer is not that progressive and does everything via test systems managed by the IT department through an inflexible bureaucracy. Fortunately I am usually able to quickly set up a pre built Linux/Windows/Unix testing/development environment on my Mac and get a whole pile of work done in the time it takes the overworked guys in the IT department to find a machine and get a test environment up and running. Basically, thanks to Parallels, I can whip up a prebuilt instance of any operating system that runs on an Intel processor with in a matter of minutes without having to endure Windows as my primary Desktop OS and all this without ever rebooting anything other than a VM, which from my point of view is paradise. I'm not saying this is something every developer should do but this approach has it's advantages.
      • Re:Geee.... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by truthsearch ( 249536 ) on Monday October 23, 2006 @01:46PM (#16549032) Homepage Journal
        Oh, I use Parallels too. But I still see no value in the blog post. Plus the statement in the summary that this blog post gives insight to cross-platform development is just silly. He's developing inside a Windows environment to create Windows applications.
      • Visual Studio on Windows in Parallels on OSX? You're living my dream! Where's your Kool-Aid, and do you mind if I take a swig? :-)

        (Seriously, if I had the money, I'd get myself a MacBook and do the same thing. Alas, I will probably wait until my Toshiba finally dies...)
  • I now work from home and I didn't have a company provided laptop anymore, so instead of upgrading an old desktop, I decided to splurge. The one hitch in my plan was the fact that I still did a fair amount of .NET development. Sure, there is Mono for OSX, but that's a far cry from Visual Studio.NET on Windows XP. Clearly, I would need a solution that allows me to run Windows XP on my MacBook Pro.

    Too many tense changes in one paragraph. Somebody please teach this guy how to compose.
  • A good job of talking about developing for different environments?? The guy ran Paralells. The article had almost nothing to do with developing anything. He just happened to be running VS.NET in virtualization. Big f'n deal. Lame and pointless.

    -matthew
    • by LWATCDR ( 28044 )
      The point is that Virtualization is a current buzzword. If you want to hip and with it then you need to start thinking Web 2.0! Develop your app using AJAX under a virtualized environment!
      Yea it is lame. If he was using QT, Java, or Mono to develop his application and set up Windows and Linux testing environments under parallels then it would be interesting.
  • by creimer ( 824291 ) on Monday October 23, 2006 @11:08AM (#16546728) Homepage
    Right now, as I post this comment from my sexy black MacBook, I'm working from home using a Parallels VM with Windows 2000 (no activation issues) and all my job related applications. It's really nice as I wait for incoming help desk tickets to arrive while playing around with my typical Mac applications without having to reboot the system. As added job security, I'm considered to be a "Mac Guru (TM)" since I'm the only person who in my office who owns a Mac. Seriously, you can't go wrong with a Mac! :P
  • Here's a breakdown by paragraph FTFA:
    • I too, decided to get trendy and buy a mac notebook. The catch is I really like the VS.NET IDE and don't want to use Mono. Therefore, I must run XP on my Mac on top of OS X
    • No Virtual PC for Intel macs
    • Now we have Parallels desktop instead. I am using it.
    • I could have used Bootcamp, but I don't like to reboot...
    • I have a smaller macbook, with lesser graphics power. I upgraded the ram to 2gb
    • I like Paralells and use it everday. I essentially run all my programs in
  • by MoonFacedAssassin ( 539728 ) * on Monday October 23, 2006 @11:33AM (#16547036)
    I'm going out on a limb here and stating that I like the article and found it very useful and informative. There are plenty of .NET developers in this world and I am one of them. I also love Mac OSX and it is great to see a semi-detailed and informative account of someone who set up the very environment I have been researching as a possible development platform. A large part of the applications the author uses on OSX and Windows is exactly what I would be using in the same setup.

    It will be very beneficial to me when I finally get this platform set up to test the memory allocation in the manner the author describes, and assuming I don't take the plunge and get a Mac Pro, 2GB RAM will be the amount of RAM I choose for the Macbook Pro. After reading the article I can now purchase a new Mac and know that I can do everything I'm wanting.
    • I'm going out on a limb here and stating that I like the article and found it very useful and informative. There are plenty of .NET developers in this world and I am one of them. I also love Mac OSX and it is great to see a semi-detailed and informative account of someone who set up the very environment I have been researching as a possible development platform. A large part of the applications the author uses on OSX and Windows is exactly what I would be using in the same setup. It will be very beneficial

      • Not everyone is as perfect as you I suppose. I suppose Herman Melville should've just said "There's a captain after a whale, everyone dies except the narrator." for Moby Dick instead of writing the thousands of long, boring paragraphs. Now I'm no Herman Melville, of course, but it must be very rewarding to you to contradict and call anyone out who puts details into their posts. Seems you have something to say on many people's posts with your 4300+ comments and/or trolling. You deserve a medal.
  • And with the continued rise of more and more heterogeneous environments, this will become more and more common.
    Wouldn't "resurrection" be more appropriate than "rise"? We used to keep way more OSes running at once than we do now.
  • My day job is as a Civil Engineer. However, I do a bit of programming on the side, mainly as a hobby.

    About a month ago I went ahead and purchased a 20" Imac for use in my home. My wife uses it during the day for email and web browsing, and in the evening, I run Parallels with windows XP to use Autocad and Visual Basic .net Express during the evenings.

    Typically, when I am runing Parallels, I don't have a lot of apps open in OSX, so my XP runs quite well with just 512mb of my 2gbs of memory allicated to it.
  • ove been using virtual pc and win 2k like this on my g4 a while now. It works reasonably well.
  • Just when it got a little interesting, describing how he would up first trying 768MB of memory for the VM but ending up at 800MB, it lacked explanation as to why.

    I currently have Parallels set to 768MB, I would have liked to see his reasoning for the tweak to 800MB.
  • I was doing this back in 1998/99 on the VMware beta. I ran Linux as my primary OS (for utility and security) but my job required me to develop mostly Windows software which I did using the regular Microsoft tools (Visual Studio) in VMware/Windows.

    And I still do that to this day. 99% of the applications I develop are cross platform Linux/Mac/Windows and VMware lets me do most of that on the same machine. I do still have to use my PPC Mac some but eventually I'll either be running OSX in VMware or similar
  • AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!

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