Jobs Unfazed by Zune 440
twofish writes "In an interview
at Newsweek marking the approaching 5th anniversary of the launch of the
iPod, Apple CEO Steve Jobs seems unconcerned by Microsoft's wannabe iPod killer
Zune. Earphone sharing will prove a more potent force for social networking
than the iPod rival's wireless song-sharing feature, he reckons. 'I've seen the demonstrations on the internet about how you can find another
person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes
forever,' he says in the article. 'By the time you've gone through
all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of
your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two
feet of headphone cable.'"
Incredible Speaker (Score:4, Insightful)
I know a lot of Slashdotters hate iTunes for "DRM", "not HD(TV) quality", "too expensive", or whatever other B.S. excuse they can come up with, but...
You won't find that sort of business done at Microsoft. Their strategy is:
1. Announce a competing product with limitless fanfare. Doesn't matter if it sucks.
2. Slowly improve it until the market finds it semi-acceptable.
3. Leverage the Windows monopoly to CRUSH the competition.
Didn't you hear? You can only use iPods with a Mac. With Zuma, you can be compatible with the millions of Microsoft Vista machines, out of the box! Plus, you know you're getting Microsoft Quality(TM) and Support(TM) when you purchase a Zuma. Those other digital music companies could fold tomorrow, leaving you with no music and no refund. Only Microsoft products can provide you with a guaranteed safety net! </standard-Microsoft-bull>
You know, he's got a point. It might seem very impressive in a geeky way to Zuma a file across the room to the pretty girl (if you don't mind that I just used "Zuma" as a verb), but she is definitely not going to be impressed unless she's also a geek. You've also got the matter of the song being played in a vacuum, where your own thoughts and feelings on the tune are missing. Thus it holds no meaning. Besides, pod-jacking [wikipedia.org] gives you a much better chance of being able to talk to that pretty girl.
Doublespeak he can't avoid... (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand he can't say "we can't adopt Microsoft's proprietary DRM instead of our own proprietary DRM because: (A) Microsoft will crush us, and (B) Microsoft's DRM is too effective for customers to put up with... the main reason we can get away with what we're doing in the iTunes Store is because everyone knows our DRM is little more than 'honor system'."
Though it would be refreshing to hear that/ He could go on with "You know, back before we introduced DRM I pointed out that DRM is basically impossible to make more than 'honor system' anyway, and our success really proves how right I was."
Re:Doublespeak he can't avoid... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Doublespeak he can't avoid... (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people never even notice iTunes' DRM (Score:3, Interesting)
People work around iTunes DRM automatically. They don't even realize it exists.
I've seen it happen more than once. Two weeks ago, I visited a friend of mine who had recently bought a Mac. She had all her music in iTunes, most of it from non-legal download sites. She couldn't find a particular song, so I showed her the iTunes music store. She found the song and bought two versions of it.
She then proceeded to tell her sister that she had found the song they were looking for. Her sister told her to get her a
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A stack of audio CDRs is not a sensible backup: they take up too much space, you lose your metadata, you lose some quality (not a massive deal, but galling nonetheless), and re-ripping any significant volume of music is a huge chore -- especially if your backups don't match anything in CDDB.
You might have the energy for that.
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Re:Doublespeak he can't avoid... (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe it's actually (C) Microsoft fucked everybody over who went with their PlaysForSure DRM, but we saw it coming, and developed our own system (probably not the reason, but it would be perfectly valid).
I think Apple knows it's DRM is really a joke, but it's enough to appease the RIAA. Much as Jobs might want to throw that into the RIAAs face, I think he knows the RIAA would be too stupid to agree, and there's no way they'd let Apple strip the DRM from the iTunes store.
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Okay, which people have been demanding compatibility outside of Slashdotters who think Ogg still matters and Apple competitors who haven't been able to make a better product? iTunes is the software for the iPod, and if you buy music through iTunes, it's clear it's only for the iPod. Don't want to be tied to the iPod, then don't buy iPod music.
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And you better believe Microsoft would weep with joy if people started using "Zune" as a verb.
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Re:Incredible Speaker (Score:5, Informative)
And you better believe Microsoft would weep with joy if people started using "Zune" as a verb.
The correct verb form of "Zune" is "squirt".
Usage:
I want to squirt you a picture of my kids. You want to squirt me back a video of your vacation.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/o ct2006/tc20061011_940241.htm
Peace be with you,
-jimbo
Re:Incredibly inappropriate: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Incredibly inappropriate: (Score:4, Funny)
I don't know what is more disturbing: that I knew what
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Re:Incredible Speaker (Score:5, Insightful)
*Sigh* Another victim of the Reality Distortion Field (TM).
You know, he's got a point. It might seem very impressive in a geeky way to Zuma a file across the room to the pretty girl (if you don't mind that I just used "Zuma" as a verb), but she is definitely not going to be impressed unless she's also a geek. You've also got the matter of the song being played in a vacuum, where your own thoughts and feelings on the tune are missing. Thus it holds no meaning. Besides, pod-jacking gives you a much better chance of being able to talk to that pretty girl. ;-)
You know damned well that when (not if) iPod comes out with wireless, his tune on that will change in a hurry. Kind of like Intel was slow until Apple was using it.
Of course, he'll have an answer about how impersonal wireless was until Apple did it. And he'll be partly right. But for now, wireless is a Zuma advangage - right now, the guy can podjack (zumajack?) the pretty girl, then when she likes the song, he can Zuma it to her. That would be pretty cool. MS should let users associate a text message with the song, that would be better. Also, would be even cooler if it didn't disappear immediately, but whatever.
I like my iPod and my powerbook, but Steve's just a little *too* slick for me. It makes me not trust anything he says, whether he's right or wrong, simply because if you let yourself get caught up in his spin, you *will* believe whatever he says.
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Re:Incredible Speaker (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Incredible Speaker (Score:5, Informative)
That's basically what Jobs has done all along. He's shown that he's never one to completely disregard in the future what doesn't work today. He's just a perfectionist and doesn't want to throw in the latest bells and whistles until he feels it is ready for your everyday user to consume. That's one thing that Microsoft doesn't get—they want the most features possible and so they end up releasing a lot of stuff, that while it sounds cool, often doesn't work as advertised until a couple of service packs later.
I also wanted to address a point from the grandparent, which your point actually addresses (albeit a little broadly):
That's a bit of a misinformed statement. Intel was slow. PowerPC was kicking Intel ass up through the early G4's. Unfortunately, IBM didn't keep up with R&D for their consumer PowerPC chips to stay competitive with Intel. So, like a good businessman, Jobs did was right for the consumer and switched his product to use the more competitive parts.
I assure you that once Steve Jobs feels the time is right for things like iPod wireless, or iPhone, or whatever else "everyone" is clamoring for, he'll do it.
Re:Incredible Speaker (Score:4, Interesting)
You could still have a song of the day to allow people to try out new music. Record stores might like something like that. Instead of listening to headphones in a store you push a button which sends the song to any zunes within range (which accept it). You get 3 chances to decide if you like it and then buy the song. But, such usage is totally at odds with Microsofts marketing.
In fairness, Apple have made similar mistakes at times. Podcasting started and grew without them. They were very quick to tap into it though which comes back to your point about Jobs being a perfectionist who doesn't want to release something until it works perfectly. Incidentally the Zune sharing wouldn't fit too well with the iTS as it functions currently. It would however be perfect for the wide range of playsforsure stores.
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Re:Incredible Speaker (Score:4, Insightful)
Give the man a prize. This was exactly Jobs' point. He didn't say anything to suggest that he's opposed to the idea of wireless transfers, just that the Zune sucks at it. If the iPod were to add this feature, it would probably require you to cross the room, stand next to the girl (again, giving you that chance to talk to her), and very simply and painlessly initiate the file transfer. Knowing Apple, you'd probably be able to broadcast your current playlist to nearby iPods, allows you to pod-jack without even pod-jacking. Which would be in support of existing market needs (something which Apple excels at) rather than trying to force a feature onto the market that no one is asking for.
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Ummm yea and when he zumajack's the girl it's only good for 3 plays. That's like taking your date to White Castle, leaving in the middle of the night and not calling her again.... smooth.
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Well, it's a bit off topic, but personally I dislike (but still use) iTunes because it's a resource hog. I don't own an iPod, and so it really shouldn't need to have an iPod helper service running continuously. It definitely shouldn't have an iTunesHelper process running continuously either.
Yes, you can kill the processes, but iTunes will just start them back up again
Re:Incredible Speaker (Score:5, Insightful)
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He's a brilliant negotiator and manipulator. Take a look at this video [youtube.com] of him addressing the Cupertino city council. Here's this big shot CEO taking his personal time and making the effort to come down to the meeting simply to give them some good news.
He doesn't ask for anything. Nothing. But from this small gesture he's now completely won over the city council. And you know that later on when Apple has
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The "Zune" is MS's iPod wannabe.
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What I cant understand is why if every "music retailer" company knows that the music is being sold more expensive than it should they still
Double speak... (Score:2)
I believe when iPod/iTunes was first announced it was Mac only... the would be in the "slowly improve it until the market finds it semi-acceptable" category. In addition, there have been a series of "flaws" to use such a crass word about Apple with the iPods... non-replacable batteries, defective batteries, scratches... etc.
For fast time to market, nearly everyone continously improves their products after they have been released. This is ge
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Last time I checked emusic, not only did it lack DRM, but it lacked ANY artist I was looking for. Now it looks like I have to complete a lengthy enrollment process just to get to the search screen to see what it has.
Re:Incredible Speaker (Score:5, Funny)
>Most people would never put someone's elses earbud into their own ear, I know I would never do so.
Dude, no wonder you don't get sex! It involves inserting.... naughty bits into other naughty bits.... And don't even get me started on foreplay.... and other forms of sexual entertainment... I am glad you are not averse putting your penis in your hand.
In other news ... (Score:5, Funny)
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Consider the Zune in that case (Score:5, Funny)
Meanwhile teenage girls are buying handguns and taking the law into thier own hands after hearing Balmer is coming to "Squirt" them with his "Brown Zune".
Re:In other news ... (Score:5, Funny)
I guess if headphones being inserted are a turn off, any other penetration is right off the menu.
Re:In other news ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In other news ... (Score:5, Funny)
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</curmudgeon>
Re:In other news ... (Score:5, Funny)
(sorry)
The master has spoken... (Score:5, Funny)
Dating advice for using the iPod?! Let's see Bill Gates top that with the Zune!
Re:The master has spoken... (Score:5, Funny)
Nah, I think I'd rather not watch that.
Bill's pickup lines (Score:2)
"Dating Me(TM) is a service provided to you under the following terms and conditions..."
"...in no event will Me be liable for damages to your reputation, orifices, or other assets arising from Dating Me(TM)..."
"...you agree to allow Microsoft(TM) personnel to periodically inspect your residentiary premises for evidence of Unauthorized Account Activ
How Is This News? (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course he's 'unfazed' by the Zune. He sits atop a company that currently has massive (and, more importantly, very loyal) fanbase in both computers and portable media players.
Microsoft is new to this market and I doubt jobs will be afraid of anybody (even Microsoft) in this market. Hell, I'll bet Jobs isn't even concerned about iRiver's or Sony's products even though they seem to have been in the market longer.
What was he supposed to do? Halt all production and support of iPods at the sight of the Zune and declare that he's beaten? Is he supposed to assume the fetal position and cower and cry when he hears the word 'Zune?' Retreat to the northern woods where he trains night and day so that one day he might come back and beat Microsoft in some other fashion?
I would be shocked if Jobs said anything otherwise. What's our next headline for Slashdot? Is it going to be "Steve Ballmer's Kids Love Zune"? What about "Jobs Says New Mac Models Are Good"? You gotta keep up those hard hitting headlines.
The questions in this article are laughable! Interviewer: "Jobs, I've pitched you so many softball questions but in an effort to pitch you another, how can the iPod lose its popularity with Dick Cheney and Queen Elizabeth owning one?" Jobs: "It can't, but let me attempt to be modest as you pop a woody for me." Interviewer: "I know you've only sold millions of iPods so let me attempt to further illustrate how great it is, will it always be about the music?" Jobs: "It's about whatever makes it sell the most."
Stop humping his leg!
I think the only way you could worry Jobs is if you made a media device that physically pleasures the user (with nods to Stanislaw Lem). Although Jobs could just fire back that the video playing iPod requires some effort but can meet the same needs.
Re:How Is This News? (Score:5, Insightful)
How is this news? Simple: By reading between the lines.
Every company delivers the same BS of, "We think our competitor provides no real challenge in the market." But if you actually listen to what they're saying, you can hear what they really think about it. Sort of like how Ballmer's denials of Google's importance always come across as, "I want to throw a f#@$ing CHAIR at those Google DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS!"
Cheney and Quooey Too own one iPod. (Score:2)
They own one? That must explain the earphone sharing, and all the trans-atlantic plane flights. You'd think that each would be rich enough to afford their own iPod.
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Those in the know, however, call her Brenda.
iqu
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As a matter of fact I also wouldn't be concerned about Sony (who invented portable music, but at that time it was the arguably most innovative tech company, but I digress) when they come up with a portable music player in 2004, which couldn't even natively understand the MP3 format, in order to force you to their hideous Sonic Stage software and their Connect store.
Hell! Does
Add feature when they can make them work. (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets take a look at virtual screens. OS X is just releasing this as a new feature in its OS next year, Unix/Linux has had this feature for decades. Why now did apple finally release it. Well because there is enough CPU/GPU power to make it so people can understand it and not call and complain about there windows being missing. Or not seeing where they put what. It is about not releasing a feature until it can be made useful. Not just putting in a feature half hazardly jest because people who like buzzwords say they want it.
Re:Add feature when they can make them work. (Score:5, Insightful)
I like your points. It brings to mind two students that have to write a term paper that has to be 50 pages. One student fills it with crap and changes the font size and spacing until it reaches that 50 pages, thereby fullfilling the minimum. The other student ignores the 50 page requirement and just researches the subject and writes until the paper makes sense. The teacher with any brains (or interest in the subject matter) is going to grade the second student higher. Not all teachers have any brains. Big corporations and especially governments won't take anything other than 50 pages and won't really read it anyway.
Apple did its homework with the iPod and worked hard for that A. Microsoft glanced over to copy as much as it could, slapped something together, put a pretty font on it, slapped some stickers on it and put it in a nice brown binder. Microsoft gets the C.
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The sky is falling! (Score:2, Funny)
Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Why not just keep both earbuds where they are, enjoy the music, and still stick it in her ear? Or am I misunderstanding something here...?
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
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Apple being unfazed (Score:5, Insightful)
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the IBM-PCs were strong competition when they left the building. Hence the 1984 commercial (The XT was released in 1993). Also apple was competing many other computer manufactures. What Apple didn't expect where all the "IBM Compatible" systems out there, that allowed developers to create a lot of "IBM Compatible" Programs for them.
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Nope, XT's were released in 1983 with a whopping 4.77Mhz 8088 processor.
In 1993 we should have had at least 486's by 1993.
I'm sure it was just a typo though...
How is this news? (Score:2)
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This is the same Steve Jobs who shit his pants [hbs.edu] when someone introduced a battery-operated motor scooter.
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I saw a Jobs that was very critical of mostly the business plan, not so much the product, at least not until he got to the design. And design is something thet Steve knows something about.
In fact, he was right about one thing: the Segway was a bust with the public, but has proven popular with commercial, industrial and police organizations, something Steve suggested they
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I guess this means that if the Segway had come encased in translucent blue plastic, it would have been a roaring success.
Earphone sharing... (Score:2)
Not to mention social diseases as well. "Remember: Wipe the Wax! This public service announcment brought to you by the Department of Public Health".
Zune's wifi sharing = Palm's Business Card Beaming (Score:5, Insightful)
The only people who will use this feature are going to be the dorks working in Microsoft's Zune division who came up with this non-feature... well, at least until they get laid off....
Re:Zune's wifi sharing = Palm's Business Card Beam (Score:5, Insightful)
Mod parent -1 miss-the-point (Score:5, Insightful)
Beaming cards was mainstream... I had a wrecker driver wave a palm at me when he was towing my car in 2000... until the iPaq finally got a fast enough processor in the ARM to make Microsoft's handheld OS usable, and Palm lost the plot and tried to turn the Palm into the same kind of "laptop replacement" device Microsoft was pushing. Pocket PCs wrecked beaming.
Why?
The Pocket PC makes beaming business cards a cumbersome trial that only the geeky can handle. You had to navigate multiple menus, switch modes in the receiving device, and wait, and wait. The Palm made it simple and automatic... just hold one button down and it Just Works, and works *quickly*.
So the question is... will the Zune make beaming music "a cumbersome trial" or "simple and automatic"? How long will it take?
Re:Zune's wifi sharing = Palm's Business Card Beam (Score:2)
It would be really cool if the Zune allows me to beam an entire playlist to someone else. Of course, it would not be cool if the receiver could only play them a couple times and if the beaming took more than 15 seconds.
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>I've done it a number of times when someone joined our team and needed everyone's contact info.
I did say that tragically un-hip business dudes and engineers were the only people who used the beaming function
Uploading not Sharing (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, I play music from my MacBook wirelessly to my speakers through my AirPort Express (yes, I'm an Apple fanboy) a lot. I really wish I could do the same, but from my iPod, so I don't have to power up the MacBook. If iPod had Wi-Fi - ta da! Problem solved.
I think Steve knows this is the future but is spreading a little FUD about the Zune. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of video iPod has wi-fi - carefully timed to arrive with the iTV - so it can play video wirelessly too. It's the next logical step.
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What are you getting at here?
The dangers of icky ear buds (Score:5, Funny)
I Guess I'm Missing Something... (Score:2)
"People will buy iPods because they can let someone borrow their iPod to listen and that's faster than copy songs from Zune to Zune." WTF is Jobs on about?
Sharing capability overrated (Score:3, Insightful)
Jobs is saying that process is cumbersome. Rather than transfer the song from device-to-device, users are much more likely to physically pass their device over to their friend, let them listen, feel happy, and go about their day.
Yes, the Zune can also do this. But, that isn't a *reason* to buy a Zune over an iPod.
He's simply stating that the marketing h
Ipod Vs. Zune Showdown (Score:2)
Subtext? (Score:4, Funny)
Jobs Unfazed by Zune (Score:2)
Jobs and Apple, have it right - for now. (Score:5, Insightful)
This kind of common sense thinking demonstrates why Apple are still so far ahead of their competitors - even when equivalent music players offer more, on paper, than the iPod equivalent at a similar price point.
The technology is always hidden behind the usability and is only included if it's absolutely necessary. That's a good enough reason for me to continue buying iPods.
Piracy is the Competition... (Score:4, Insightful)
I've been making this point repeatedly since 1996. This simple fact... that Jobs chose to view piracy as competition, is the single most important reason for iTunes Store's, and consequently Apple's, success.
In a sense, the song is free. The user is paying for convenience (robust UI), fidelity (AAC vs. MP3) and selection that the P2P services cannot provide. Whether you want to call this a form of RDF-ing the features/benefits, the fact is that people do pay for design, convenience and selection.
For this reason, tracing back to Jobs' philosophy of Piracy-IS-Competition (as opposed to the "Throw Tons of Lawsuits to the Wall and See What Sticks" approach), Apple distributes more volume than all P2P services combined... even though their product is free.
Because of the product-software integration Apple has, they have a degree of quality control Microsoft cannot touch. Microsoft does not understand hardware the way Apple does. They see hardware as a repository for their bloatware. Whereas Apple sees software as a means to enable hardware to do things related to productivity and entertainment, but the hardware itself must be built to appeal to the consumer's needs, not the shareholder's.
Just got this from a friend: (Score:5, Interesting)
Although you, as a Zune owner, can block particular Zunes from sending stuff to you, other Zunes start off in an unblocked state. Do you know what Microsoft have done? They've invented a new kind of spam. Companies will hack the standard and create a box which will automatically find every Zune in the vicinity and send their (audio/video) adverts to them.
You'll have Zune users in public places swearing at the constant interruptions and hitting the 'do not accept' button.
How Zune's Wireless Should Work... (Score:5, Interesting)
THAT would be an iPod killer... what makes it sad is that it's only the stupid software that limits the aforementioned ideas. I hope someone is able to come out with a custom OS that enables users to do just what I've described.
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steve can be wrong... (Score:4, Interesting)
Kids love cell phones. They love text messaging. They also love text messaging on their computers. One common theme is to express their individuality by publishing What they're listening to right now. Sometimes in a chat they'll even include a link to the song. Couple this with increasing introverted behavior. Kids will love the ability to share a song via wireless. There is this innate need to get inside the headspace...
Sharing a headphone requires an unwanted and unwelcome [physical] contact.
The Zune wireless can be extended to do more than share music. Its personal publishing.
The difference between Jobs and Gates (Score:3, Insightful)
Make money
and
Have sex
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How do you know??? (Score:2)
How do you know? Have you done a poll on Slashdot? You know, the one that will inevitably tell you that 38.6% of Slasdotters responded to the "Do you own an iPod or a Mac?" question with the answer "Cowboy Neal" ?
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This is why the iPod is winning... its a device to get you laid first, music player second, and amazingly it does well at both tasks. But really, how is a music player like Zune going to compare with something that gets you laid?
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What if I wore a Jack Skellington costume?
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This is important to the average user.
Me?, I'm stuck in my ways and lazy.
This means i have an iaudio because it's the only thing that will play my flacs without converting them.
I encode important stuff in flac, otherwise I use ogg!
My other uses a ipod and there is some nice features I wish my iaudio had. However byond the flac problem also hate giving up control and ipod/itunes does this. I want to manage my files my way damn it! Yews this means I also use firefox/thunderbird on my mac rather
Re:I'm with Taco (Score:5, Insightful)
Ease of use and style. Unfortunately, these things mean very little to some of Slashdot's technocentric readership, so they are constantly overlooked as unimportant, or, at times, it is implied that anyone who chooses ease of use and style over maximum features and geek cred is stupid.
The iPod succeeds because it tackles a very narrow set of problems very well. It makes managing and listening to large music (and now video) libraries very, very easy. It doesn't try to pack in a lot of the bells and whistles which would detract from its primary purpose. Because of this, the people who designed the hardware and software were able to focus their efforts on a very few tasks instead of trying to tie together several separate and disparate functions on one machine. Why is this important?
Because most consumers want a device which is 1) easy to understand and 2) easy to use. The technofetishism which attracts a lot of the serious geek crowd is of no value to them. So, while the iPod wasn't the first mp3 player, and it lacks features found on some other players, the combination of the iPod, iTunes and good industrial design makes for a killer combo. My technologically clueless brother can use his iPod with no problems and no confusion. He doesn't have to read much of a m anual to use one, or pop through a lot of mensnus in a creaky interface. He can simply copy all his playlists from iTunes to the iPod and listen. The reason for the iPod's success us that the Nomad is a device. The iPod is a well thought out product.
Re:I find this quite funny (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, yes, but functional wireless - MS screwed the pooch with the Zune, by not letting it show up directly on your WLAN as a CIFS share (possibly even with some device-side browsing ability so you can pull music down rather than needing to push it from your fileserver or a third machine), instead limiting it to the all-but-useless "share for three listens" feature.
Now, as for Steverino's comment - The Zune's wireless, useful or not, exists in addition to a headphone jack. Not "instead of" (I'd like to see how that would work
But for the REALLY interesting question - I slammed both MS and Apple here... Will the fanboys' heads explode before they can mod this into obvlivion?