KDE Celebrates 10 Years of Existence 270
Rob Kaper wrote in to tell us about KDE's 10th anniversary. From the article:
"Yesterday at 10:00 AM the president of the KDE e.V. Eva Brucherseifer welcomed the audience of the presentation track at the KDE anniversary event at the Technische Akademie Esslingen (TAE) in Ostfildern near Stuttgart, Germany. Keynote speakers were Matthias Ettrich, founder of the KDE project, as well as Klaus Knopper of Knoppix fame. During their presentations they looked back at KDE's successful past 10 years and they offered their thoughts about the future of KDE and Free Software."
Rob adds this thought: "We've come a long way in ten years, but where must we still improve?"
Where can you improve ? (Score:4, Insightful)
how about memory usage ? be nice to run KDE on older hardware to replace those soon-to-be-defunct Win98 boxes
Re:Where can you improve ? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I read that at the end of the Akademy they made the kde window manager OpenGL aware (without needing GLX). That would mean that the each window can be cached on the graphics card and switching between windows will be very fast in KDE 4 even on a slow cpu, the cpu will have more time to spend on other tasks, making KDE faster and feeling significantly faster.
KDE Performance Tips (Score:2)
http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=Performanc e%20Tips [kde.org]
And, according to http://terra.es/personal/diegocg/kde/#DCOP [terra.es]
KDE 4 will use Qt 4.0 which is a big improvement in that field. When Qt designer was ported to Qt 4.0 - only the neccesary changes to make it compile - the "libqt size decreased by 5%, Designer num relocs went down by 30%, mallocs use by 51%, and memory use by 15%. The measured Designer startup time went down by 18%".
Use xfce (Score:3, Informative)
http://xubuntu.com/ [xubuntu.com]
Where to improve? (Score:5, Interesting)
How about this one...
All "official" KDE apps get restructured to be command line interface (CLI) and graphical user interface (GUI) front ends to shared object libraries. In every KDE app you can find an entry in the "about" function that shows you how the CLI would do various tasks, including the last task you did. You can even make it optional as a compile-time option in source code. (Power users would rather not have that function bloat up their code, no doubt.)
In a flash, any GUI using novice with a hunger to know more about Linux, can look right there and see how it's done.
In no time you'll have tons of people speeding up their KDE by doing everything on the command line and perhaps even using less memory (as far as CLI vs GUI memory usage is concerned).
Re: (Score:2)
It's not the 1970s any more...
Re: (Score:2)
The one thing I like about K* stuff is that it's sort of like Perl, in that it doesn't force users to do things "This way, or else".
Re:Where to improve? (Score:4, Funny)
Your post gives me a hankering to boot up DOS 3.3, the last true great OS if you ask me.
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously you've never used OpenVMS.
Rookies (Score:2)
And yes, I still have my Kaypro II.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd have never graduaded University without WordStar, the KayPro II and it's beautifully clear green screen.
Still, that's comparing a hopped-up Datsun B210 to a Mercedes 300D.
The Datsun is certainly nice and functional, but can't beat the MB.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Since most of the GUI libraries used by KDE are shared if you have one KDE app open then you have 90% of the memory use required to display an interface for *all* of them (discounting the actual functional code, which is required if you are using the UI or CLI).
Welcome to the past (Score:5, Informative)
Do you want to send the oputput of ls -l to your IM contact via Kopete? Just do "dcop kopete KopeteIface messageContact jabber.com "`ls -l `"
Those are the kind of things that make many people use KDE instead of Gnome BTW
Re:Welcome to the past (Score:5, Funny)
Do you want to send the oputput of ls -l to your IM contact via Kopete? Just do "dcop kopete KopeteIface messageContact jabber.com "`ls -l `"
Wow. Here I'm sitting, thinking "Hmm, a suitable task for my friends Copy and Paste." And then you bring your simple and intuitive solution. Just WOW! Thank you.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Well. It was Gnome who was lacking a IPC system, not KDE. So yes, it find it sensible that the ones who didn't have it are who implemented it. In the same way, since they've lacked it for years it's reasonable that they have built a comparable competitor.
and it was built in such a way that there are no desktop dependencies. Had it been done by KDE hackers, it would have been tied to Qt
Bullshit. Dbus does depend on glib.
DBUS is heavily used in recent GN
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
A lot of what you want is already there. Use the 'dcop' command, and it lists the applications running that are available to manipulate. Use an application name that is already running and it lists the operations you can perform with it. Use the 'kdcop' command and you have a graphical application to explore what is possible.
A song... (Score:3, Funny)
Kappy Kirthday to you,
Kappy Kirthday Kister Kresident,
Kappy Kirthday Ko Kou
Re: (Score:2)
Congratulations! (Score:3, Insightful)
s/Congratulations/Kongratulations/ (Score:2)
Improve? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Or disable it in the configuration options. In fact, the several times I've used KDE in the not-too-distant past, it was off by default.
Re: (Score:2)
Use your brain next time, kid.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The bouncing cursor always annoyed me a little, though not enough to go to the effort to find out how to turn it off. Now I know.
Where to improve - VOIP (Score:2)
Even better, throw it out and start something from scratch that aims to be a good SIP phone while being modular so you can expand it with plugins to a useable Asterisk switchboard console or add codecs that cannot be GPLed (or both).
This is possibly the only KDE app that I feel like missing when using KDE.
Disclaimer - I have not looked at kphone for a
Re: (Score:2)
Currently NAS and ESD in a network environment are rather useless because there is no way to control the volume and mix correctly into NAS or ESD input on the server. Having the mixer done in software and mapping it onto hardware only if hardware is present will definitely help here. It will also allow to emulate some capabilities not present on some of the less supported hardware.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No flame please (Score:2, Insightful)
KDE Possible Improvements (Score:5, Informative)
I was a KDE user on FreeBSD before I bought a Mac a few months ago. I was generally very happy with my KDE experience, and they seemed to have done a great job with their desktop. There are a few complaints that I've had:
Those are my only complaints about KDE. KDE is a very nice desktop environment. These improvements will make it the perfect desktop environment for me, and a serious contender to GNOME, Windows, and OS X for most other users. Keep up the good work.
Spotlight clone exists (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Presents? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I just tried Kubuntu for the first time... (Score:2)
But Kubuntu....well, it sucks. The interface is cluttered as hell. I actually had a couple of apps FREEZE, which I've never seen before. It's slower than Gnome on my machine. File management is goofy. The themes are ugly. And, honestly, it seems to me that most of the cooler applications are written for Gnome/GTK, and don't fit in very well under KDE.
I was suprised at how bad it was, actually. I used KDE way back when, becaus
Re: (Score:2)
Misc GUI improvements (Score:3, Interesting)
This is my take on KDE (Score:4, Interesting)
For me, it's the two major sub-items covered under one big one: Beauty.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No, no, no. This is most certainly not a requirement.
Re: (Score:2)
Where is it mentioned that a pleaseure to look at *is* a requirement? I simply, as the subject noted, had my take on KDE.
KDE problems, fixed (Score:3, Informative)
The fonts are ugly.
Font anti-aliasing isn't even enabled in the screenshot you linked to. That's a very easy fix. Control Center --> Appearance & Themes --> Fonts --> Tick "Use anti-aliasing for fonts". The difference will be dramatic. Everything will look beau
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:KDE problems, fixed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Forcing the user to change to sensible defaults IS a broken interface.
Now you're getting it! That's a broken interface, though that's hardly the only reason the laughable Windows interface is so shoddy (don't get me sta
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That basically is my problem with KDE. There's so many ways to fix just about every problem with it that to work it out, you have to spend ages searching. But some problems which I haven't yet worked out the solution to:
Re: (Score:2)
1. Just click OK. It's not that difficult. If you close the dialog or click Cancel you're telling the application you aren't sure of your changes.
4. Most (if not all) KDE applications have Settings -> Customise Shortcuts. This will let you customise all of the shortcuts for the application. I admit, being able to do it from the context menu on a toolbar button would be nice though.
5. Well, for me the open/save dialogs are a hell of a lot better than those you find in GTK
Exactly (Score:2)
Hit the nail on the head. The good news for people who have unsurmountable problems with KDE is that there are literally dozens of other options out there. With enough energy and curiosity they'll find something they like. KDE, one of the few DE's that at least tries to be a shoe that fits every foot is taking heat for its
Finally, some decent complaints (Score:2)
1. OK/Apply/Cancel - Yes, this was stolen from Windows and I can't say I like it myself. In the Control Panel, if you forget to apply your settings before moving on, you will get a notice asking you if you want to a
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The offense is even worse if KDE is technically capable of better, and yet is set to look crummy by default. What are the developers thinking?
Arrogance is not my default setting (Score:2)
Bizarre megalomania aside, if the default settings are too spartan and ugly for you, then perhaps you've forgotten that every time something is made "prettier" it uses more RAM, burns more CPU cycles, or both.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Improvements... (Score:2)
As ridiculously poor user-interface decisions go, introducing extra clicks to achieve a common goal rather than defaulting to the almost universal standard of assuming a drag-and-drop means "move" ranks right up there as one of the worst I've seen.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Copy
Create shortcuts
Move
Unless you know the nature of the source and destination filesystems, you may not get the action you expect. With windows you can right-click, drag, then select from the context menu to force the action you desire.
A few things (Score:2)
Now as for things that I would like to see:
- better integration with sites like kde-look. Why is there a "Get New Wallpapers" button and not a "Get new icons", "Get new themes" and so on. Everyone likes eyecandy (even those who claim they don't:) ).
- Mac Spotlight 'nuff said
- And when we are stealing from apple: why not read http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExper ience/ [apple.com]. These people are know for the usabilty of their os and applications. Wh
KDE -- you are the best! (Score:2)
Where I would like to see you improve -- Please, Please Please implement support for OSX style application bundles -- it would make it so much easier for me easier to make easily distributable packages for you if you would support them.
Don't pay attention to the clueless dorks who are suggesting that you should switch everything from C++ to something else, use GTK libs or reimplement everything to be a GUI front end to CLI commands -- those are incredibly bad ideas. You are pr
Re: (Score:2)
Like, uhm, klik [atekon.de]?
Re: (Score:2)
On the contrary, it would be enough if KDE did switch to C++.
At the moment, it uses a bastardised dialect of C++ which doesn't support exceptions. This makes combining KDE with just about any other ISO C++-compliant library (Boost being but the most obvious) in the same application impossible.
From this C++ developer's point of view, it's the most important fix, and it won't be
Re: (Score:2)
Paul.
Look at Vista for inspiration? (Score:2, Insightful)
Instant searches and dynamic stacking of files. A constantly indexed system *cough*spotlight*cough* that lets you create dynamic stacks. Stacks behave like folders - you can browse a stack for instance - but have no physical location on your drive. This combined with instant searches from anywhere in the OS, gives you
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Dock (Score:2)
The right way to solve this, IMO, is to use icons, just like NEXTSTEP and its
continuous session saving (Score:2)
Continuous session saving. KDE already saves session state on logout. Now the API for doing this should be changed so that each application saves its state not only on logout, but on every change (with several seconds' delay so as not to overload I/O).
proper mouse button support would be nice (Score:2)
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34362 [kde.org]
I wonder about a recent bug I found.. about three months ago, about applications not showin
Re: (Score:2)
Interesting, I had never noticed that - but to be honest, shading is a feature that I have never thought was particularly useful. In your parents' case I would suggest changing the double-click behaviour so that they never use the shading by accident (which is the only way I ever used to activate it) and then they'll never run into the problem.
To be fair, KDE has a much greater usability focus now than ever, and usability bugs do get fixed. Perhaps t
Happy birthday (Score:2, Funny)
Learn from MacOS. (Score:2)
In MacOS, Apple+Tab = switch Application. Apple+~ = switch window. This means I can easily go between application windows without futzing accidently into other applications.
In KDE and Windows, this is not enforced, so I run into the situation of EVERYTHING being hidden in alt+tab.
Consider: are subdirectories a good thing? Would you rather everything was in one root directory, each time having to search it for a file you want? No.
Here
Not true. (Score:2)
I thought so.
Re: (Score:2)
yay KDE! (Score:2)
Improved startup time, please (Score:2)
KDE...sucks. (Score:2)
Gnome...sucks.
Vista...sucks.
MacOS...sucks.
CDE...still sucks.
User interface design is retarded. We need to get some complete computer neophytes to look at our interfaces, and point out the obvious blind spots we've created for ourselves.
Put another way: Computer user interfaces SUCK! The current set of 'innovations' are only innovative and progressive within the context of users (such as ourselves) who have rigorously trained ourselves to think like computers.
Nothi
Re:And I thought the Christian Fundies were nuts (Score:4, Funny)
Fact: Linux has balkanized yet again. There are now no less than 140 separate, competing Linux distros, each of which has introduced fundamental incompatibilities with the other distros, and frequently with Unix standards. Average number of developers in each project (except for Redhat and Novell/Suse): fewer than five. Average number of users per project: there are no definitive numbers, but reports show that all projects are on the decline.
Fact: The trivial issue os what to call Linux continues to hound Linux. At a recent Linux conference in San Francisco, a fight broke out between RMS (Richard M. Stallman) who says Linux should be called GNU/Linux and Linus Torvalds who created Linux and says that Linux should be called Linux. This led to a massive barroom style brawl involving at least 150 Linux geeks. The SFPD was called out to break up the melee, and arrested 150 people. It was estimated that at least 2 to 3 times that many were involved in the brawl, but there wasn't enough police on hand to arrest or count all of them. Sixty one people were hospitalized as a result of this brawl, and one person is still in a coma. Another three people had to get their jaws wired shut.
Fact: Linux is plagued by a lack of professionalism. The stereotype of Linux users being fat unwashed dateless geeks who still live in their parents' basements and refuse to shower more than once a month is all too true. The best example of this is RMS who claims to have a "water phobia" and thus rarely bathes. RMS also looks like he has been living in a cave for the last 5 years. In fact, RMS has been arrested twice because he has been mistaken for Osama Bin Laden. While RMS has always been found to not be Osama Bin Laden, it has created a perception of that Linux is the "terrorist operating system". Linus Torvalds has been forced to spend a great deal of time correcting this perception instead of working on the Linux kernel. Alan Cox quit Linux kernel development since he got tired of everyone saying that he was a terrorist.
Fact: There are almost no Connectiva developers left, and its use, according to Netcraft, is down to a sadly crippled
Fact: X.org will not include support for Redhat's Fedora project. The newly formed group believes that Fedora has strayed too far from Unix standards and have become too difficult to support along with other Linux distros and Solaris x86. "It's too much trouble," said one anonymous developer. "If they want to make their own standards, let them doing the porting for us."
Fact: Ubuntu Linux, yet another offshoot of the beleaguered Debian "distro", is already collapsing under the weight of internal power struggles and in-fighting. "They haven't done a single decent release," notes Mark Baron, an industry watcher and columnist. "Their mailing lists read like an online version of a Jerry Springer episode, complete with food fights, swearing, name-calling, and chair-throwing. It also doesn't help that most people think the word, "Ubuntu", is an obscure term for a homosexual orgy." Netcraft reports that Ubuntu Linux is run on exactly 0% of internet servers. An attempt to save Ubuntu by creating a derivative distro called Kubuntu has also failed.
Fact: Debian Linux, which claims to focus on "being free" (whatever that is supposed to mean), is slow, and cannot take advantage of multiple CPUs. "That about drove the last nail in the coffin for Linux use here," said Michael Curry, CTO of Amazon.com. "We took our Debian boxes out to the backyard and sh
MOD PARENT FUNNY (Score:3, Funny)
Re:A few thoughts (Score:5, Informative)
This is most likely your video card drivers. KDE is plenty fast, but if you dont have acceleration working in X, then everything will seem sluggish. My card is poorly supported (ATI Xpress 200m) and it makes everything seem slow.
Memory usage. The memory requirements of KDE and and Gnome are ridiculous.
Yes, if you mean ridiculously low. Fresh boot, Debian with KDE 3.5.4 on my old box, 32MB of ram used. Start up konversation (irc client) and it's about 45MB. Every subsequent application uses less extra ram, because the libraries are already loaded. Fresh boot on windows xp is at least 100MB, on my laptop more like 150. Most likely you have no idea on how to measure memory usage on linux. Have a look here: http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/ [kde.org]
Clutter.
You've got a point there, it's getting better with every release though. And no, sacrificing features for simplicity like Gnome did is not a good strategy.
Consistency.
That's one of the strengths of KDE actually. Everything works the same across the KDE apps. Keyboard shortcuts, look, general menu structure, colours, style, etc etc. And then we get into the even more important consistency, which is functional consistency. Just about every app that needs a text editor uses the same one, so they all behave the same. The same spell checking engine is used almost everywhere, and the password manager saves passwords for every application that has a need to store them. No other operating system is anywhere close to that consistent. Not OS X, not Windows, nothing.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Also, I see speed vary from machine to machine too. I've found that recompiling the kernel has a tremendous impact on speed every time. It usually increases responsiveness by about double.
I think Windows gets around this particual problem by having a ker
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Keyboard shortcuts, look, general menu structure, colours, style, etc etc. And then we get into the even more important consistency, which is functional consistency. Just about every app that needs a text editor uses the same one, so they all behave the same. The same spell checking engine is used almost everywhere, and the password manager saves passwords for every application that has a need to store them. No other operating system is anywhere close to that consistent. Not OS X, not Windows, nothing.
I
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
As an interesting note, the other day I installed Ubuntu Dapper on a machine with a Pentium II 266 MHz and 256 MB RAM inside. I expected it to be slow to the point of being unusable, but, to my surprise, it actually worked really smoothly. I recall getting similar results using KDE 3.2 when that was current.
In conclusion, while speed improvements are obviously always welcome, neither GNOME nor KDE seems to be doing too bad these days.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's just stupid. Since when can Notepad do syntax highlighting and all the other stuff kate/gedit can do? Comparing applications with completely different feature sets is not valid.
Do the same thing for FireFox. Do the same thing for Open Office.
Approx the same for me on Win and Ubuntu.