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Can Sony Convince the World? 127

Posted by Zonk from the not-me dept.
Gamasutra's regular feature asking a question of the game development community is back. This week's question cuts to the heart of the reporting from the Tokyo Game Show: Can Sony Convince Us it is Still Dominant?. From the article: "All that Sony needs to do is stop acting so arrogant. People can forgive any number of faults if the company generally acts responsible for their mistakes. When the PSP came out and people complained about the square buttons getting stuck and not being as responsive as the other buttons, Sony said 'There may be people that complain about its usability, but that's something which users and game software developers will have to adapt to.' We have to adapt to their broken button... Comedic at best. When everyone said the price of the PS3 was rather high, Sony told everyone that 'people will buy it no matter what.' What do they say about PCs? 'The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC.' - Dave Fried, The Collective"
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Can Sony Convince the World? More

Can Sony Convince the World?

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  • wow (Score:3, Funny)

    by bradkittenbrink ( 608877 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @12:58PM (#16161671) Homepage Journal
    Can Sony Convince Us it is Still Dominant?
    I think I speak for the entire slashdot groupthink when I say, "Wow, what a dumb question!"

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by splutty ( 43475 )
      Indeed. WoW. Everyone knows Blizzard ousted Sony.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by sedyn ( 880034 )
      Exactly, If Sony's still dominant, it doesn't have to convince us of anything.

      As a side note, how would one evaluate Sony's success? Do we compare it's adoptation to the other consoles or the PS2? If the answer is "both" then Sony's has a difficult struggle ahead of it.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Kardall ( 886095 )
        Regardless of how dumb this question is, your explanation is pointless. The question asked whether or not sony COULD convince us, not whether or not they had to.

        If they aren't a dominant force (which I don't believe there is any one dominant force at this moment in time in the console market), how would they go about convincing people? It will be very hard to at least put on a facade of a dominant unrefutable force to be reckoned with, when deciding on what console to purchase for your loved one this holida

  • They are starting to. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Thansal ( 999464 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @01:03PM (#16161713)
    I think it is POSSIBLE for them to pull their act together. Are they going to do it? I have no clue. I have honestly never seen a company seemingly TRYING to hamstring themselfs before this.

    They have tacken 2 steps i nthe proper directions:
    1) The inclussion of HDMI on all PS3s is a very good idea in my mind. You now have a BluRay player for $500 that is not crippled. The expanded HD does not seem like that much of a wory. The loss of WiFi? Mehh. No card reader? I dono, does it really do much? (I honestly don't remember).
    Now they just need to make the price not suck AS much, right?

    2) Droping the price of the core system in Japan.

    They caught on that the Japanese didn't like the price, and mabey they will catch on that Americans (and the rest of the world) don't like $500 as a price point either.

    Though, I will admit that $500 is almost an acceptable budget for a system to me, however that is b/c I am ussed to dropping $500+ when ever I upgrade my computer...

    Note: I will never buy a PS3 untill the price comes down to around the $200 range. I will buy a Wii, but that is b/c it seems like it is honestly inovative. the PS3 is a replacement for my computer as a gaming platform? I will pass, you can pry my trackball from my cold dead hands.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by nsmike ( 920396 )
      Though, I will admit that $500 is almost an acceptable budget for a system to me, however that is b/c I am ussed to dropping $500+ when ever I upgrade my computer...

      $500 is around what I'm budgeting for the Wii. In order for any game system to be worth anything to you when you take it home that day, you'll have to fork over at least another $50-$60 for one game (Save the Wii, if Wii Sports is REALLY all you want to stick with). That's if you only want to stay one-player too. Then fork over extra for

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Thansal ( 999464 )
        Very true, I am now sorta tempted to work out just how much everything equates out to.

        Generaly the budget I work with for when I upgrade/buy a new computer is $700-850 (generaly I am replacing just about everytihng exept optical drives, NIC, simple things like that).

        Now to me, that is compleatly reasonable as I spend a large portion of my free time infront of my computer, and much of that is spent gameing (aka actualy taking advantage of the $$ spent on performance). It is also the main thing I am interest

      • Re:They are starting to. (Score:4, Informative)

        by Salamande ( 461392 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @04:18PM (#16163181)
        Historically you're correct, but I have to say, the Xbox 360 kinda changes that dynamic. You can take it home without 1 game and, as long as you have an internet connection, you can download demos all day and night without paying a cent through Xbox Live Silver. And I'm talking really nice demos like the ones for Lost Planet and Dead Rising. That's one thing MS did absolutely right.
    • I have no clue. I have honestly never seen a company seemingly TRYING to hamstring themselfs before this.

      You must not follow companies much. I can think of lots of companies that have gone way out of their way to destroy customer goodwill and drive themselves to the brink of bankruptcy and beyond. Sony is far from being the first company to do that. In fact, they are not even the first video game company to do that. Remember Atari?

      I can think of many other examples: General Motors, Ford, Apple under John S

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Thansal ( 999464 )
        Sory, showing my age I guess. I am not actualy familiar with any of those events (heck, by the time I was old enough for video games the Atari was already a dinosaur).

        I am actualy more familiar with the dotcom problems, where you had companies doing everything they could to make their customers LVOE them, then realizing that their buisness strategy would not turn a profit. I think of companies like Kosmo.com that just could not turn a profit when I tihnk of companies shooting themselfs in the foot.
        • I used to work for a software company that would buy dinner for people who were working late through kozmo.com. Their reps came to our office and gave us a whole bunch of swag when we started ordering from them. And then we would order like "a salad" or "a sandwich" and they would bring it. I remember that they did not treat their delivery employees very well, though.
    • Note: I will never buy a PS3 untill the price comes down to around the $200 range.

      Looks like you're not buying one then. Ever. The PS2 started at $400 and to this day is only $150. If the PS3 is starting at $500 don't expect it to ever be as low as $200.
      • PS2 is down to $129, has been for sometime. It's stayed that high because of high demand. When I bought mine, I had to go to a couple electronics stores to find one. This was less than a year ago. Expect the price to drop to $100 when the ps3 picks up steam.

        The ps3 will drop a little faster, because competition will be tougher this gen. Sony got lucky and killed Sega early, and dominated the market after that. Microsoft was too new and Nintendo's pissed off or alienated too many people (e.g. Namco, Squa
      • Assuming we're talking US dollars, the PS2 sold at $300 at launch, not $400. Granted, you'd be spending about that much after picking up a game and a memory card.

  • Enough, Zonk. Enough. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You gave it your best shot for the past year with your Sony and PS3 tirades, FUD, snide commentaries.

    All realtime PS3 titles:

    http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748483/vids_1.h tml [ign.com]

    http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2628 [gametrailers.com]

    http://www.level5.co.jp/products/shirokishi/index. html [level5.co.jp]

    http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/vids_1.h tml [ign.com]

    http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748480/vids_1.h tml [ign.com]

    http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p1.html [ign.com]

    The PS3 is just over a month away from hitting the shelves in the US and Japa

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No kidding! You know, most of us are also guilty of buying into the negative hype machine that is going against Sony right now. Heck, I was even guilty of it for the longest time, but my problem was not feeling I had seen enough "games" for the system. I have been checking out the TGS footage, though, and I am starting to get psyched for the PS3. The updated MGS4 trailer which actually showed gameplay footage, Virtua Fighter 5 looks fantastic, Virtua Tennis is a great party game no matter what system, a
    • I'm too lazy to link to it, but the video trailer for "Afrika" is positively mindblowing. I'm not sure what kind of game it will eventually BE (will you play as one of the animals? As an unseen explorer?) But I don't think I've seen anything THAT detailed on any system- PC OR console. If these are what first gen Ps3 games are capable of, I can't wait to see what's coming next.

    • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Informative? Let's see, we have RIIIIDGGGE RAAACCCER!!11!! and a bunch of games I've never heard of before (despite a bunch of them being sequels). Yay, real-time movies of cutscenes spliced randomly!

      Beyond the pretty pictures, what's your point? So the PS3 can make pretty pictures, I think everyone knows that. That does nothing to combat:

      1. No release titles anyone cares about.

      2. Ridiculously expensive price tag. $600 for a console?! (Keep in mind, with a 20/80 split, most people will have to get the

    • Re:Enough, Zonk. Enough. (Score:4, Informative)

      by Milktoast ( 3812 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @01:58PM (#16162095)
      If you look on the games section, Zonk has 3 stories about the PS3, two of them are positive about the console. But yes the PS3 has gotten some negative press lately, and not just here at /. It's not his fault that general reaction around the PS3 has been negative as hell lately. Not everyone has your fanboy-colored glasses on.

      Personally I'll wait to see if the PS3 is going to have some decent games into buying-into the system as you seem to have already.

       

    • Zonk couldn't make this stuff up if he wanted to. Did Zonk make Kutaragi say stupid crap? Did Zonk force Sony to price the PS3 at 600 bucks? Did Zonk personally buy every DS in order to make sure that the PSP sold less? Did Zonk plant the Rootkit in the Sony CDs? Did Zonk personally program GT HD? Did Zonk switch Sony's controller with one that mimics some of the functionality of the Wii controller? Did Zonk write the script to the RIIIDGE RAAAAACER/giant crabs from Japan's history presentations?

      Don't kill

  • So very tired of this... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fr05t ( 69968 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @01:08PM (#16161742)
    Seriously... come on guys. I personally plan to wait until all 3 consoles are out for a while, then see if one (or maybe more) have the games, and features I want. Maybe Sony will give me what I want, and I'll be willing to pay them for it - maybe they won't.

    MS has failed to impress me with the 360 and their game line up thus far. To be honest though I am hopeful / excited about the Wii, but you never know it might turn out to be a turd. Point is there is so much smoke and mirrors, and hype around console launches it's stupid to speculate and get all worked up about every half baked press release and "insider speculation".

    • Re: (Score:2, Redundant)

      by ElleyKitten ( 715519 )
      I'm not even looking at the PS3 until FFXIII comes out. RPGs are Playstations' strong point (at least for me) so until they get some Final Fantasies and some lesser-known good ones, I don't care.

      XBox 360 I think has some decent games. DOA4 and Enchanted Arms look cool. But, two good games does not warrant a $400 purchase, so, waiting for price drop and better games.

      The Wii... well, I have high hopes for it, but I'm getting Zelda on 'Cube and waiting to see how well this wiimote thing works out.

      I

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

        I think you've hit on Sony's real problem: I don't care about any of the games being released now. Can the PS3 survive long enough for the games I actually want to play to make it out on it?

        The games I'm excited about aren't going to be coming out until late 2007 at the earliest. There's no way I'm buying a PS3 at launch. I'll be waiting until the price comes down enough that I can afford it. Well, not afford, but until the price comes down to what I'm willing to pay, and what I'm willing to pay depen

        • Yes, it supports DVI out, you can buy HDMI to DVI adapters.

          I figure thats what Sony was expecting PS3 owners would do until HDMI TV's dropped in price, hook them up to monitors.

        • I think you've hit on Sony's real problem: I don't care about any of the games being released now. Can the PS3 survive long enough for the games I actually want to play to make it out on it?

          I agree, the problem is that there's nothing there to excite us. All the exciting games are either Nintendo Wii or they're cross-platform and thus mean we can play Sim: Island on the Wii and Spore on the Wii just as easily as on the PS3.

          Trying to keep the cool Japanese games out of the Euro and US markets is the problem
          • "Trying to keep the cool Japanese games out of the Euro and US markets is the problem"

            From what's been said the PS3 games aren't going to be restricted by region, so you should be able to order Japanese games and play them in EU or NA.

            • From what's been said the PS3 games aren't going to be restricted by region, so you should be able to order Japanese games and play them in EU or NA.

              Should be and are is not the same. Sure, if Sony got it's act together and realized why Nintendo was eating Sony's shorts, they could get a clue stick and kill their region-encoded games they've been pushing, and not be so DRM-heavy, but the reality is they rely on region-encoding far more than Nintendo is planning to be.

              Nintendo got a ride on the non-DRM clue

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Fr05t ( 69968 )
                Not sure what exactly you are trying to say - guessing you are a rabbit frothing at the mouth fan boy.

                It has been said over and over there will be NO region restrictions on games with the PS3. I don't recall hearing anything about region restrictions being on, or off for the Wii. Either way we aren't going to know until November what either system really delivers so why don't was save the out of the ass speculation until then.
            • From what's been said the PS3 games aren't going to be restricted by region, so you should be able to order Japanese games and play them in EU or NA.
              I don't speak Japanese so that's not so helpful.
    • No kidding. There comes a point in every launch buildup...where the vast majority of the console facts are on the table, and it becomes pointless to analyze it further until the systems are all actually playable by the average Joe and they get to see the mass market's reaction.

      I for one will not be buying a system until I can demo all 3. And until then, I'll continue to stick my fingers in my ears and make absurd noises at all these hacks who have nothing better to write about than "Can Sony save itself a

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bahwi ( 43111 )
      That's just not how slashdot works. How can you form your own opinion when we're trying to form it thru a means of mass collective that always leads to something stupider. Didn't you read the summary, it had a jab at sony? That translates into we all hate sony.

      It will be debated, argued, and "discussed" by means of flame wars in the comments, the loudest people will be summed up, and it will be repeated in either a dupe, with possibly another jab at sony, or, if the comment tide turns (and by that I mean th
  • Can Sony Convince the World?

    No.

    I'll admit I'm biased, but since it's the entire world we're talking about....
  • TFA is quite right - Sony execs have been too full of themselves for too long, and it's hurt them again and again. My favorite arrogant Sony moment was a rather infamous interview that Sony did in boot magazine about how Vaio systems were about to conquer the desktop market, because Sony had realized that Moore's law needed to "be thrown out the window" and consumers really just needed high-margin, overdesigned PCs that did what big manufacturing companies like Sony wanted them too. The new Vaio desktops we

  • I have to go against the grain here... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rifter13 ( 773076 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @01:29PM (#16161876) Homepage
    People want Playstations. That is it. Look at the sales number difference between the Ps2, and the Xbox. The Xbox is superior to the PS2 in every way, but it still sells FAR less than the PS2. People buy brands, and I think that is far more true today, than it was in the past. The PS3 could still be screwed up, but I don't ever want to underestimate the stupidity of the average consumer.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Thansal ( 999464 )

      The Xbox is superior to the PS2 in every way, but it still sells FAR less than the PS2.

      Exept games.

      The XBox had awsome sports games and racing games and a few (I can think of about 6-7) REAL AAA titles (This is counting the games that are exclusive, or are heavily tied to the system).

      The PS2 simply has more GOOD games then the XBox (I am not talking about games that are fun to play, I am talking about games that you know you are going to be playing again and again for a while).

      XBox got it (mostly) Right by

      • I agree about the online offering for Xbox Live. Very cool service, but obnoxious how much it costs.

        The Xbox has had more than 6-7 AAA titles. You have to include games that are not exclusives. I have not bought a PS2 game in many years. I am going to probably, buy Guitar Hero soon. That is the first PS2 game in a LOT of years that has my attention. I have not looked at PS2 games for a few years, in general. The only game I am still annoyed was PS2 exclusive, was Soul Calibur 3. I have NO clue why i
        • Hmmmm, if this data is correct, I would have to say that the PS3 will be a flaming failure of death: . [evilavatar.com]

    • But you've missed something... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ScislaC ( 827506 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @01:55PM (#16162070)
      Yeah, some people want PlayStations, others want games only available on the PS2 (Square-Enix games for example), and some others also have an investment that's worthless without replacing their PS2... It seems that the PS2 sales numbers are quite misleading due to the fact that so many current PS2 purchases are people replacing their broken PS2s, not "new" users. If you've invested a few hundred (or thousand) dollars in your PS2 and it doesn't work anymore, as much as you may not want to purchase a same name replacement due to your experience, you've already spent so much on the games and peripherals that it's not worth it to switch. Of the 11 people I know who purchased a PS2 at launch, 8 of them have had to replace their systems over the past 3 years. For the average consumer there is definitely a good amount of brand purchasing though, look at the iPod or RAZR (or an ungodly number of other products). I definitely agree there. But, for every PS2 owner I know, I also know an XBOX owner... and to tell you the truth a good number of those people own both actually. ;)

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Manmademan ( 952354 )

        Of the 11 people I know who purchased a PS2 at launch, 8 of them have had to replace their systems over the past 3 years...

        The plural of anecdote is not "data." Of the 6 or 7 individuals I know who own a PS2, only one has had to replace his and that guy's a slob. Regardless, there's a 60-70 million unit gap (depending on how you interpret shipped vs. sold) between the Ps2 and the GC or Xbox. to put it in perspective, even the NES only managed to sell about 70 million or so during it's entire lifetime. You

        • I always wondered about that theory that Sony sells so many consoles because they break. I, at least, wouldn't buy 2 or three or more consoles because they kept breaking, I would sell my games and buy something more durable. Also, if everyone's consoles broke, I'm sure that eventually people would just stop buying them, so dupes can't be that significant of the sales.
          • Man, my first ps2 lasted a looooooooong time... I don't even know how long it was, I just replaced it about 6 months ago. The laser started having issues at one point, I tried to crack it open and work on it myself but that didn't work. Called Sony and asked them how much it'd be to repair (I have to have had the console for 2 or 3 years by this point and had broken the 'do not break this seal' sticker) and they said to mail it in to them and they'd fix it and send it back (like a 3 week turnaround, thoug
    • Yes, I want a PlayStation, but I still believe I'll be getting far more out of the Wii. I've got the 360, and I'm going to get the PS3. I don't want to miss out on any games that will remain exclusive to any console, that's the only reason. I'll still be playing the Wii for 90% of the games, and the other two for whatever Final Fantasy or Gran Turismo or GTA exclusive games they have, and that's it. If I was only planning on getting one console, it would most definitely be the Wii. I'd probably still w
      • You are a marketer's dream come true. (Even so, I'm happy for you if you're happy.)
      • I own all 3 last gen systems. Xbox, PS2, and GC. The Xbox was the last one I bought. I bought the PS2 on launch day, and played one PS1 game in it. I don't know that I buy that backwards compatiblity stuff. It is nice, but I own a next-gen console, I want next gen titles. My plan, at the moment, is to pick up a 360, and then a Wii. Eventually, I will probably get a PS3.

        It seems that most games are going to be multi-platform. I think owning one, will not be as big of a deal... unless you like Nintend

    • Re:I have to go against the grain here... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by RyoShin ( 610051 ) <<tukaro> <at> <gmail.com>> on Friday September 22, 2006 @02:22PM (#16162291) Homepage Journal
      The PS2 had a lot of things going for it, though, than just the Playstation brand when compared to the XBox.

      -the PS2 had a DVD player in a time when DVD players were all the rage, but still expensive.
      -the PS2 could play PS1 games, so there was more of an incentive for PS1 owners to upgrade.
      -the PS2 had a full year head start

      On the other hand, Microsoft was an unknown as far as gaming had gone, so people were wary to pick up their console (especially in Japan). The PS2 was as or less expensive than the XBox when the XBox came out, as well, I believe.

      Now the positions are somewhat reversed. Microsoft's console has a year's head start, will be the cheaper of the two, and has proved slight dominance over Nintendo (at least in America). Now Sony just has the BluRay and backwards compatibility going for it.

      Frankly, I think it's going to be anyone's game this time around.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      People want Playstations. That is it. Look at the sales number difference between the Ps2, and the Xbox. The Xbox is superior to the PS2 in every way, but it still sells FAR less than the PS2. People buy brands, and I think that is far more true today, than it was in the past. The PS3 could still be screwed up, but I don't ever want to underestimate the stupidity of the average consumer.

      People want Nintendos. That is it. Look at the sales number difference between the Super Nintendo Entertainment system and
      • The SNES fell to the side, compared to the Genesis, for a while... then Sega really screwed up with the 32x, and some of their other add-ons. There wasn't like a 4 to 1 difference, between the SNES and the Genisis. Not to mention, the N64 had a few really bad technical issues... like a 32 meg card, and the fact that the titles cost $10 more than a CD. Nintendo 64 had several big blunders. The blunders that the PS3 have had, I don't consider as major... except maybe price, but I still think that consumer

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by LWATCDR ( 28044 )
      Maybe but I know that most of the people I know that own a playstation are far more excited about the WII. I think in this case it all comes down to cost.
      The Wii is cheap and looks really fun.
      The PS-3 I might get one when the price drops to $250 or if I find a must have game for it.

      Even on slashdot I seen the Wii leading like 20 to one. Let's face it Slashdot is probably a pretty good sampling of people that are willing to drop a few hundred dollars on a game system.
      At Christmas parents and kids will have t

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by duerra ( 684053 ) *
      Xbox is superior to the PS2 in every way, but it still sells FAR less than the PS2.

      You ever think that that's because Microsoft doesn't sell XBoxen anymore? Sony still sells PS2's.
      • Nope, because I am actually going after monthly data, that has been this way, since the Xbox launched. There were a lot of good arguments brought up. But, the facts are, the PS2 soundly kicked the Xbox's butt.

        I own all 3 last gen systems. Xbox, PS2, and GC. The Xbox was the last one I bought. I bought the PS2 on launch day, and played one PS1 game in it. I don't know that I buy that backwards compatiblity stuff. It is nice, but I own a next-gen console, I want next gen titles. My plan, at the moment

    • Most gamers want games and value, not brand alone. Sure, the Playstation brand is strong, but if it's the only thing you got, you ain't got enough. The PSP showed that.

  • PS no longer the console of exclusive games (Score:3, Informative)

    by ConfusedSelfHating ( 1000521 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @01:33PM (#16161901)
    The Playstation 3 will certainly have a number of exclusive games. It will simply not have the number of exclusive games that the Playstation 2 had. Previously, if a developer wanted to make a game for a single console, PS2 was the optimal one. There are 100 million PS2s out there and less than half that number of Xboxes and Gamecubes combined. Look at the number of games which were only released on the PS2. It made a lot of sense because there was a very large install base.

    With the very high price of the PS3 (which Sony appears to be cutting before launch), a lot of developers will hedge their bets with a dual release on the PS3 AND Xbox 360. The Wii's unique controller scheme will prevent direct ports, but the low cost of development should mean more third party developer interest. Now Sony will have to pay for exclusivity, opposed to having the default console.

    Even if Sony cuts the price of the PS3 quickly, a lot of the damage has already been done. Many developers who would have created PS3 exclusive games have started Xbox 360 development in parallel. There are a lot of games that will be produced for the Wii on the chance that it takes the dominant position in Japan away from the Playstation brand.

    Does anyone honestly believe that there will be 100 million PS3s out there in 2012 and only 50 million Xbox 360s and Wiis combined?
    • The '100 million PS2s' comment is pretty misleading. Given PS2s hardware issues, even a *conservative* estimate would put it at more like 80 million *working* PS2s in the wild, and quite possibly less. I do agree with you, though, that Sony no longer has the exclusivity that it once did, and the field will probably look much more level in 10 years. It is unlikely that any console will EVER reach the relative success of the PS2. I could be wrong, though.
      • Then the market share of the xbox will be even less, given the number of people who modded it to become a linux box or for watching downloaded movies.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by donaldm ( 919619 )
      I think it is going to be difficult to call who is going to win here but in Microsoft's case with their Xbox they effectively lost a few billion dollars while Nintendo and Sony made a considerable profit on the Gamecube and PS2 respectively. The Xbox 360 is also a loss maker but Microsoft has very deep pockets although no company can continue taking a loss without the shareholders screaming. I think the next two years are going to be crucial.

      In the article it was suggested that Sony discount their HD-TV's w

  • It's the nature of arrogance (Score:3, Insightful)

    by redelm ( 54142 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @01:39PM (#16161942) Homepage
    Coming late to the party, people often see pride, arrogance and conceit from one or a few market players. Big Oil, Ma Bell, IBM, Intel, Sony, Microsoft, Google?, and the list goes on.

    I think understanding their history is important. The arrogance didn't come from no-where. Each of these is a survivor from a very uncertain start and emerged victorious after bruising competition. This rather naturally makes the managers somewhat self-satisfied and complacent. And sows the seeds of their subsequent demise.

    In a sense, all victories are Pyrrhic.

  • We know too much... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by leland242 ( 736905 )
    Joe Gamer doesn't care about E3 press releases, or some interview at the (insert city) Game Show. He knows his PS2 kicks ass and he heard from a buddy that the PS3 is coming out this year.

    "Woah! I gotta get that!" he says...

    That is what the average gamer is thinking. Sony is proving themselves to be arrogant and is completely shooting themselves in the foot...but maybe not to thier detriment.

    The PS3 will sell out at lauch. There is no question Sony will sell a ton of systems - but I think it is overdeliv

    • Re:We know too much... (Score:5, Funny)

      by MMaestro ( 585010 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @02:59PM (#16162577)
      "Woah! I gotta get that!" he says...

      And then he sees the price tag...

      "Woah! I can't afford that!"

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by 7Prime ( 871679 )

        Yeah, price tag is not something that can be ignored:

        lack of HDMI... few would notice.

        OMGWTF amazing Cell processor... few would care.

        BluRay... what's that?

        But when Johnny goes to the store with $400 in hand ready to buy a system and a few games, it doesn't matter how ignorant he is, he won't be able to get it. Furthermore, if, like many people, he's had his mind made up that he's going to get "a system", he'll walk out with a Wii.

  • Most sensible people would have to be disappointed with Sony's recent shenanigans, obv. But given that they're launching just before Christmahanukkwanza, with a relatively small number of units, the alternative would be to hand the profit over to the eBay scalpers. When serious volumes are available next year, they'll drop in price quickly for sure. Anyone who doesn't wait till then is either rich or desperate.
  • Sony's dropping the price of the PS3 to $410 six months AFTER they should have dropped it to $399 is a day late and a dollar short.

    They've already lost not just mindshare - of hardcore and midcore gamers - they've lost Developer mindspace, as many have already rejigged their games to make sure they now are releasing Wii games.

    They still have games that cost $10 extra than what a Wii game does.

    They still have an overly FPS and Sports focus that gives them no growth areas, while the Wii is expanding into unch

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rob Kaper ( 5960 )
      Sony's dropping the price of the PS3 to $410 six months AFTER they should have dropped it to $399 is a day late and a dollar short.

      Why use a metaphor when the real thing is ten bucks and roughly 180 days worse?

    • Sony's dropping the price of the PS3 to $410 six months AFTER they should have dropped it to $399 is a day late and a dollar short. They've already lost not just mindshare - of hardcore and midcore gamers - they've lost Developer mindspace, as many have already rejigged their games to make sure they now are releasing Wii games.

      To be fair, only the hardest of the hardcore gamers who follow this kind of news religiously even has any IDEA of what the various versions of the Ps3 cost, and their minds were li

  • Those who don't know history... (Score:4, Informative)

    by RyoShin ( 610051 ) <<tukaro> <at> <gmail.com>> on Friday September 22, 2006 @02:31PM (#16162376) Homepage Journal
    Sony's arrogance is a problem, but I think its history precedes it. After the PS2 launch, there were many, many reports of problems with the PS2, and I don't believe they ever got DVD playback down pat. Even outside of the PS2, Sony has done a lot of things in the past year or two that turn (knowledgable) consumers off from Sony products- the rootkit fiasco has made me very anti-Sony products, to the point that I've passed up things that were exactly as I needed just because they were made by Sony. So, in my case, and others I have talked to, the decision to skip the PS3 was made before the real details were even announced.

    This time around, people are going to be wary about buying a $500 system that could break as easily as the PS2 did, and so far BluRay has not taken the world by storm like the DVD did, so having an included player isn't as much of an enticement.

    Sony not only has to tone down (and maybe even apologize) for the arrogance, but they will need to make amends for their previous stunts, as well, before the informed consumer will welcome them back into their home.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Drathos ( 1092 )

      ..and I don't believe they ever got DVD playback down pat.

      I considered whatever quirks it had to be a good thing for a while. Before I got my own DVD player, my PS2 was the only thing that would play my copy of The Seven Samurai properly. My roommates Onkyo DVD player would get stuck on the menu or play but skip a couple of chapters in the middle depending on how it was loaded. My computer (Windows or Linux, didn't matter) would play the sound, but not the video. My PS2, on the other hand, would play ev

  • Who are we asking? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Enderandrew ( 866215 ) <enderandrew@NOsPAM.gmail.com> on Friday September 22, 2006 @02:32PM (#16162379) Homepage Journal
    Are we asking the Slashdot crowd or the world?

    The PS2 is still outselling the XBox 360. The PS2 still held an extremely dominating lead over Microsoft and Nintendo combined, even though both had arguably superior hardware. Nintendo was cheaper and Microsoft had Live. Still Sony dominated.

    Sony is promising a Live-like service, but allowing to play multiplayer online for free. They will have the best hardware. They will have a huge launch in Japan. They have tons and tons of third-party support. They still have plenty of huge exclusive franchises.

    The Slashdot crowd speaks daily of Sony's evils. Yet it is Nintendo, not Sony who cut back on the features of their console launch. Wii is $50 more expensive than promised, and still doesn't have DVD support. One of it's biggest features is the ability to purchase again titles we've already purchased multiple times before. Nintendo promised region-free, and then canned that.

    Sony in comparison, is going region-free and said they will support Linux and homebrew development. $500 for a PS3 with BluRay, a HDD, HDMI, more processing power, native 1080p and free online pay vs. a $400 XBox with no high-def movie player, no HDMI, weaker processing power, upscaling, and paying for online play? Suddenly, the price does seem considerably more reasonable. Over the course of the console's life, you'll pay the extra $100 in XBox Live fees.

    I think Microsoft and Nintendo will offer heavy competition, but especially now that Sony is offering HDMI on the low-end system, and is talking about dropping their price, I have little doubt that they will once again dominate this generation.

    Mind you, I buy each console, and I'm no fanboi. But the facts are that Sony has been EXTREMELY dominant, and despite the elite geek crowd turning their nose up at Sony, the masses still seem to love them. Conversely, you hear alot on the Net about Nintendo love, but other than handhelds, their home console division has steadily declined ever since the days of the NES. The opinions you read about online do not necessarily represent the actual masses.

    • Re:Who are we asking? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Animats ( 122034 ) on Friday September 22, 2006 @02:39PM (#16162419) Homepage

      The PS2 is still outselling the XBox 360.

      The PS2 is $129. That helps. A lot.

      Remember, to most of the buyers, who are parents, these things are toys.

      • "Furthermore, according to the NPD Group's TRST data, the Xbox 360 is actually off to a slower start than the original Xbox. Looking at retail sales for the respective consoles' first nine months shows the Xbox at 2.55 million units and the Xbox 360 at 2.21 million units."

        Microsoft has been advertising like mad, and really pushing the 360. The original XBox had the anti-Microsoft sentiment, and despite having tons more launch titles, a free (gimped) Live service, and being the first to launch in the next g
      • I thought the target demographic for gamers had long since switched to 18 to 23 years old, and that game players were getting to be a pretty old lot. [citation] [theesa.com]. Yeah, kids are important, but they don't matter as much as they used to.
    • Wii is $50 more expensive than promised

      Really? The way I remember it, it was promised to be "no more than $250", which is precisely true. Plus we get a game with it that we weren't promised. The Wii is priced exactly as promised.

      • Both Nintendo and Microsoft promised at E3 that you could buy a $400 Premium XBox and a Wii for less than the cost of the $600 PS3. I'll let you do the math.
    • Huge launch in japan? there will 100k units in japan for launch. The games that will drive the japanese to buy the system in droves will be there until late '07 at the earliest. (mgs4 and ff13) >>Sony in comparison, is going region-free and said they will support Linux and homebrew development if you believe the linux/homebrew bit will get real support I've a swamp in florida to sell ya.
      • Sony is still saying (though I doubt it) that they will push 6 million worldwide by March. On launch day, Japan won't have many units.

        The XBox 360 has only sold 2.2 million in 9 months. If Sony can manage to sell 3 million, they'll take the lead right away. Out of those six million, I wouldn't be shocked if they sell 2 million in Japan by Spring.

        Sony's own website lists 30 launch titles, including FFXIII, FFXIII Vs. and MGS4. Will they hit the exact launch window? They don't have to. If they're six mo
    • I understand what you're saying, but have you considered that the number 1 competition the PS3 has to face is not the Xbox 360 or the Wii, but the PS2? There's a very real possibility that the PS2 could end up being the dominant platform of the next generation as well, if developers continue to support it with new games.
      • That is up to developers. However, it seems like there are plenty of developers working on next-gen games. And there are enough MAJOR titles from all parties to push people to eventually jump.

        I hear from gamers quite often that once you've played Oblivion, Morrowind is unplayable in how the graphics pale. For better or worse, most of us are suckers for great graphics. One could argue that we got more bang-for-our-buck in the 16-bit era. The 8 bit era consisted of awfully short (though challenging) game

    • Sony is promising a Live-like service, but allowing to play multiplayer online for free. They will have the best hardware. They will have a huge launch in Japan. They have tons and tons of third-party support. They still have plenty of huge exclusive franchises.

      First of all, I agree that no matter what the Slashdot and extreme-gamer crowd think, Sony is still going to do awfully well this console generation. I am by no means a Sony fanboi either when I say this.

      That said, you talk about their "Live-like ser

      • Very true. I am curious what they have up their sleeve.

        I'm also a little disappointed that they didn't just invent a new kind of rumble. Very few people talk about that, but it was one of the smartest moves Microsoft made. This company patented the method Microsoft and Sony used for rumble. They intended to sue both companies. Microsoft just bought them out, so not only did they avoid the suit, but if Sony wants to use that rumble, they have to pay Microsoft royalties.

        Getting around a patent means devi
    • Wii is $50 more expensive than promised, and still doesn't have DVD support.

      Wait, what? Do people still give a damn about DVD support on a video game console in 2006? Nowadays if you still haven't bought a cheap standalone DVD player for your living room you are most likely not interested in DVDs anyway.
      • My point is that for the past 18 months I have heard people bitch non-stop about how Nintendo is this great company and how evil Sony is, and how Sony lied about their specs, and about how the PS3 won't have all the features Sony promised.

        Sony is now going ABOVE their initial promise by adding HDMI to the low-end system, and lowering prices 20% on their low-end system.

        Nintendo cut DVD support and raised the price 25%.

        The fan-bois need to wake up and look at facts. All three are major corporations. All are
  • All I mainly play aside from the few games on my Mac (Diablo 2 and Starcraft) and my Nintendo DS (Tetris DS, Animal Crossing: Wild World, Metroid Pinball, etc) is Zelda and Metroid. Only Nintendo can offer me that. I'm getting a Wii for sure (already pre-ordered), the only thing I have to choose is the color (I'm thinking black, like my Gamecube, though my Nintendo DS is white...).

    Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 (Xbox 360) looks promising (nice, uh, graphics...) and so far no announced title for the PS3 appeals to m
    • Well, if you want to choose a colour, you'll be waiting awhile. The Wii is only going to be available in White at launch.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Yvan256 ( 722131 )
        Well, if you want to choose a colour, you'll be waiting awhile. The Wii is only going to be available in White at launch.
        Oh crap, I would've live a black one, to go with all the other audio/video components...
  • 2 parter, read both or skip to the one that applies to you (if it does).

    Doom a Gloomers about the PS3, you're wrong. Sony's arrogant, sure. Sony's PR is equatable to trying to talk kindly about Bill Gates in the 90s. The steps and mistakes they've been making are well documented here on Slashdot, and they are doing a whole lot of sucking. However, here's a revelation for you... ...the PS3 will still be a major player this coming generation.

    You can throw your prophecies of doom left and right, but it's point
    • Doom a Gloomers about the PS3, you're wrong. Sony's arrogant, sure. Sony's PR is equatable to trying to talk kindly about Bill Gates in the 90s. The steps and mistakes they've been making are well documented here on Slashdot, and they are doing a whole lot of sucking. However, here's a revelation for you... ...the PS3 will still be a major player this coming generation.

      You can throw your prophecies of doom left and right, but it's pointless. We may not like Sony and their shenanigans, but barring you person
  • All that Sony needs to do is stop acting so arrogant.

    Do you really think that a couple of gamer conventions (even as large as they are) are really going to bring down one of the largest, if not the largest, electronic entertainment companies?

    The media really needs to get over themselves and understand their place in the world. They're the ones being arrogant.

    This is like the Mel Gibson episode... Sure, we all think it's wrong, we think that Gibson needs to (at least) get a hold of himself but really...
    • On the one hand, what you say is true.

      On the other hand, Sony is behaving in a classical "company about to self-destruct" fashion.

      No, the gamer conventions and the pundits won't bring down Sony. But people are pretty good at subconciously detecting the stench of death on an organisation, and they'll start to avoid Sony, even if they don't know why. If (or when) Sony eventually craters, the same useless pundits will take the credit, but in fact it'll be Sony itself that did the damage.
  • It's going to have to, because the world has shown itself incapable of convincing Sony.

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