The Segway, Five Years Later 340
abb_road writes "The Segway was introduced with a promise to transform cities; BusinessWeek has an article on what the Segway has accomplished in 5 years, and how 'personal transportation,' and the company, have changed. From the article: 'The first Segway — a clean-running, technologically dumbfounding, fun-as-hell-to-ride device that was pretty much impossible to fall off of — was introduced to so much fanfare five years ago that the public-relations agency that helped engineer it still uses it as a case study in how to create a media frenzy. It may be an even better case study in media backlash. The initial euphoria had hardly worn off before a new consensus emerged: This was all much ado about a $5,000 scooter.'"
Cities redesigned (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cities redesigned (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Cities redesigned (Score:5, Interesting)
As Does Chicago (Score:2)
Re:As Does Chicago (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cities redesigned (Score:5, Funny)
Just make up a list and add it to Wikipedia.
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Re:Cities redesigned (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. $5000 ??? $500, sure, $1000 maybe, $1500, probably not. You don't price a machine you want to "revolutionize" transportation at the same cost as a decent motorcycle (or more than a scooter) when you can't offer even a fraction of the benefits of the motorcycle or scooter. The Segway is ultra slow, totally thieve-worthy at five grand a pop, unable to deal with weather, too slow in traffic and not meant for it anyway, single-user, baggage crippled, short-range, annoying to pedestrians... frankly, aside from the gimmick (it balances... hoo hoo) I simply don't see the appeal.
What we *need* is an electric car that is affordable, quick, baggage-capable, carries passengers, has decent range (300...400 miles or so) and can recharge in a few minutes. Ultracapacitors are at about 1/10th the energy levels required for this right now, and my guess is that within ten years, they'll be right in the "zone." Barring something *actually* revolutionary (like antigravity!), pavement and car-class transportation isn't going anywhere.
Fact: Revolutions are made by people. Not by marketing declarations.
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I have a very simple answer: $5000 isn't "pedestrian friendly."
Aside from that, urban areas in and of themselves aren't really the problem. Suburb to urban commuting, and back again, is the main one. I lived in NYC for years. I didn't own a car; the family didn't own a car. We didn't need one. We had subways and busses. We went everywhere, we saw everything. T
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Re:Cities redesigned (Score:4, Informative)
range to the things instead of what they're limited to by current battery technology (In other
words, if a fuel cell or a Stirling Cycle engine could be made as the energy source for the
electronics instead of Li-Ion batteries so that the things have a 50-150 mile range instead of
the 10 or so that they currently do...) then there might be some re-working done because they
ARE quite impressive. As it stands, they do a tour [segcity.com] of
downtown Austin and San Antonio on them and it's supposed to be pretty popular.
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Re:Cities redesigned (Score:5, Funny)
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first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women
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a. seen major proliferation of the device
b. seen plans made by cites to accomodate them (if they are not yet implimented)
I will have to say that we certainly have NOT seen (a). I won't say (b) hasn't happened either, because my city hasn't done it, but others might have.
Overall, I think that the comment was a very silly one.
Re:Cities redesigned (Score:4, Interesting)
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That also, of course, makes it more difficult to get where you want to go by walking, but I think that's kind of by design. One of the "perks" o
Re:Cities redesigned (Score:4, Funny)
Honestly ... I remember that quote about how cities would be re-designed around the thing - was anyone anywhere actually expecting something like that to happen in 5 years?
Heck, they haven't even redesigned New York City to handle cars efficiently -- what made anyone think the Segway was going to force changes that millions of drivers couldn't?
Re:Cities redesigned (Score:5, Informative)
However there are a bunch of cities that are probably forever changed by the Segway... they passed laws forbidding the use of electrical small personnel vehicles, Segways, electric bycycles,etc from being on the sidewalks.
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Market a segway for less than 1,000USD and even I'll buy one
The Segway (Score:4, Interesting)
In reality... (Score:2)
commercialization that turn the Segway into something like what you're hoping
for. If his designs for a Stirling are as good as he seems to think of them,
you'd use it in the segway to give it much more range- and it would be a device
that'd use different fuels (Hell, you COULD do a thermal atomic pile if you were
sure it'd not get ruptured and get unbelieveable results with that...).
It's got potential- I just think he released the S
Well, that's the real life test, right there (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, see, that IRL is actually the whole issue and measure of a product's worth: whether you'd pay the price for it, or not.
Because if we're talking as in "well, if it was free of charge, I'd get one", then you've covered pretty much everything in that category. I know wouldn't refuse a lot of things, if they were free, even if they're bloody stupid and/or I have no intention of using them more than once or twice. But if they cost 0$, hey, I can just chuck it in the garbage bin later and I've lost nothing, right?
The problem is that IRL most things aren't free, and bang/buck is actually a very important criterion. There's a moment when you look at a toy and at it's price tag, and decide, "gee, it would be bloody _stupid_ to pay _that_ much for that." And many a product ends up a dud not because it's a stupid product per se, but because it's just not worth the price tag it comes with.
And that's where the Segway failed. You're not the only one who wouldn't mind one for free. I wouldn't either. I don't think much of it as a means of transportation, but, hey, it might make a good high-tech toy to play once or twice with. But when you slap a $5000 price tag on that toy, it start's looking like a stupid toy for people with more money than brains. I could even afford that price very easily, but looking at it from a bang-per-buck perspective, it's entirely too little bang for that kind of buck. I can easily think a _lot_ of other stuff to blow my money on, that would be more useful, fun, or whatever.
Re:The Segway (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if there was a better fuel, the motor vehicle is still one of the worst possible solutions to the problem. The segway is not a great replacement as it doesn't provide protection from the elements. Even then, a $300 bicycle is much faster than a segway and much cheaper to own and operate.
k.i.s.s.
Re:The Segway (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Climate control. Even as simple as a roof and windows to keep out the rain, and a heater to keep out the cold. A $500 used Civic has that. The $5000 Segway does not.
2. Secure storage. ie. a lockable trunk to store your stuff. Sure, it's not perfect, but in most areas you can reasonably sure your bags will still be in your trunk when you get back to wherever you parked it.
So definitely not a car replacement. What Kamen should have been comparing it to was the bicycle. Unfortunately, the price/performance ratio still just doesn't add up when comparing to a basic $200 bike. You can carry just as much stuff on the bike, go just as fast, with no need to recharge it every night. You might get a little tired or sweaty, but if that's a major problem for you, see the $500 used civic.
Segway Not Impossible to Fall off (Score:5, Funny)
In addition. The Turning controls are on one of the handles and if you're drunk and jousting on Segways (Which is REALLY FUN btw.) falling off is pretty easy as well. I leaned to far forward which makes you go very fast I was attempting to charge through a hallway and while going fast I realized that I was quickly drifting towards the wall. I attempted to fix this but twisted to hard on the steering grip and it very quickly spun me in a 360 into the wall.. Which actually hurt pretty good. You don't have to be a president to fall off of one.
Re:Segway Not Impossible to Fall off (Score:5, Funny)
George, is that you?
Re:Segway Not Impossible to Fall off (Score:5, Funny)
i heart slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
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It all fun and games until someone gets an eye poked out - then its entertainment.
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all of a sudden, the price tag seems worth it...
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Yeah, this is the comment I left under the article:
Needless to say, it is unlikely to end up in their comments section.
Re:Segway Not Impossible to Fall off (Score:5, Funny)
that explains the strange marks I saw on the hallway floors during the white house tour.
Case study? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, its looking only half the picture. Best case study would be "How to create media frenzy, completly fail to deliver it, and still remain in business"
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Seems like bad PR to me (Score:5, Insightful)
In the over-production economy of today it's damn easy to produce lots of anything, but it's hard to sell it. Insert your favourite product and major corporation manufacturing it, and it would be trivial for them to ramp their production to the point where it exceeds world demand. Nike or Adidas could swamp the world in sports shoes, Samsung could bury the world in TVs, and Coca Cola could easily ramp its production to the point where the whole human species could drink only that. That's not the problem. The problem is selling that stuff.
_That_ is the problem that marketting and PR were supposed to solve. Plain and simple. That's why their clients pay for their services.
A marketting or PR campaign whose backlash actually hurts product sales (e.g., Daikatana and the massive backlash to the "John Romero will make you his bitch" campaign), is plain and simple a flop. I don't know how you want to redefine PR's job, but from the client's point of view, he didn't get _his_ problem solved: selling more products. That's the real problem he had and needed solved. Anything else is just missing the point and solving the wrong problem.
Just exposure is damn easy to get. You only need to fund a spam campaign or something equally stupid, and you'll get all the negative exposure you can possibly hope for. Or get your products to fail in some spectacular way. (Incendiary laptops with Sony batteries, anyone?) That'll get you in everyone's head. But that's not the exposure anyone actually wants.
The trick is getting the kind of exposure that makes people actually want to buy the product. You need to get people to associate product with being cool, trendy, hip, or just having some benefit out of it. Stuff that makes them want to buy product X instead of product Y. (E.g., make them want Coca Cola instead of Pepsi or water from the tap.) That's really what the client pays for, and that's why he pays trained experts instead of just doing some hare-brained publicity stunt himself.
Isolating half of the issue as "only that's my job, and it doesn't involve whether or not it helps you" is missing the point. Saying "my job is to create market awareness, it's not my job whether it also helps your business or kill it" is as stupid as hearing a surgeon say, "well, my job is only to cut you open, not to actually remove your appendix and/or make sure you survive."
Never say never (Score:4, Funny)
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So what you are trying to say is that President Bush can do the impossible?
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Or that GB Jr can fail where his father suceeded (GB Sr managed to avoid falling alongside Jr). How telling. The funniest part in the article referenced in the parent post:
The machine's creator, Dean Kamen, wants to see US Special Forces troops eventually ride Segways into battle.
Just imagining that is all but too funny for words.
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Cakewalk (Score:2, Flamebait)
Unless you [google.com] have clay feet [wikipedia.org].
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Some of those pictures look like they were arranged to make it looks like he was riding, then fell off, which probably isn't true.
Shouldn't have to turn it on first (Score:3, Insightful)
My car has NEVER caused me to hurtle dangerously out of the driver's seat because I failed to turn a key.
What they've accomplished: Not Much (Score:3, Insightful)
If the article is all there is on this subject, then Segway hasn't accomplished much since the scooter was finished. They've thought about a lot of potentially neat things, but they're still just that - thoughts.
Makes me want to run right out and put all my money into just about anything except Segway!
The segway has a perfect market (Score:5, Interesting)
But there's one area where segways excel, and that's giving a lot of freedom for disabled people to move around. Each time I hear about a segway story, it's about some handicapped person who finds it marvellous. Like this story [theglobeandmail.com] for example, or this one [nbc4.tv] which are rather typical.
So in short: I reckon segways should be banned on public thoroughfares, and allowed anywhere for disabled people.
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I saw a demo of one climbing stairs while remaining perfectly balanced. Hate to think what would happen if the power went out though.
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further because of the potential. It's got that- it's just wasted because the
Segway's got such limited range because it's using conventional electric storage
technology. As for when the power goes out, what happens with people in power
chairs when the juice gives out? You end up with this heavy-assed chair that's
moderately hard (Heh... How about next to impossible, even AFTER you disengage
the transmissions on the drive motors..
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The same is not true of a pavement. All you expect on a pavement are people using their legs and occasional wheelchair users. Unless there is something wrong with you, you should not be permitted to operate any kind of vehicle including a Segway on the path. Take your chances on the r
Re:The segway has a perfect market (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The segway has a perfect market (Score:4, Informative)
I took a segway tour this year while on holiday. I had never been on one before. In the 30 minute pre-tour class, the guide explained why G.W. fell off. Basically, he neglected to turn it on to balance mode. Rule # 1 is don't step on until you see the smiley face.
It was fun but I prefer riding a bicycle because you get zero exercise on a segway. It's heartening to hear you describe how it is useful to the disabled. My mother loves to travel to foreign cities where she spends days walking. She is too old to do that so I was thinking that she could rent a segway instead. Do you think that the segway would be useful for the elderly too?
Unfortunately (Score:3, Interesting)
Was really funny watching Atlanta issue a few of the machines to fat cops, cops who could not walk a beat if they had too. Seemed a few other government agencies began looking at these because of "union" rules interest.
I would not mind the machines for people with genuine handicaps, but I certainly don't want to be forced to bu
Maddox took care of this 3 years ago. (Score:5, Funny)
BAM! Third wheel. [thebestpag...iverse.net]
I saw some recently (Score:2)
I though briefly about finding out where to rent them just so I could try one, but we had better things to do so we kept walking. I’m all for putting pedestrians on wheels and accelerating them to three times their natural walking speed, but I prefer getting some exercise [flickr.com] out of the deal. I
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Remember Wired? (Score:2)
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Segways are great (Score:5, Interesting)
These things could revolutionize cities, but it's not an overnight proposition because you're battling for real estate on the road with cars. Cities like Montreal, with extensive and sensible bike lanes/routes, make the most sense initially. But if they sold them in NYC, you'd really have to sell models equipped with miniguns to defend yourself against crazy taxi drivers.
In any case, if you get the chance to take one for a spin, do. It's really fun.
Re:Segways are great (Score:4, Funny)
-stormin
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Hype vs. reality (Score:5, Funny)
However, there was also a little bicycle that someone left lying around, and I got the chance to ride around the mezzanine on that for a while, also while laughing like Pee-Wee Herman. That was also a load of fun, one that wouldn't cost me four-figures to duplicate, require me to remain standing, or control my direction with what may be the most unnatural steering mechanism ever.
Both rides gave me a sore throat friom all that Pee-Wee Herman laughing, though.
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It totally changed mine, since I bought one I have been cured of my cancer, am in the best shape of my life and am dating a super model.
But I just saw a commercial for a little magnetic bracelet that could fix that nagging lower back pain.
Where's my phone?
The Hype! (Score:2, Insightful)
Ginger!
IT!
A device so revolutionary and world-changing, that its codename was "IT"!!!
After seeing it, Jeff Bezos was known to say "You have a product so revolutionary, you'll have no problem selling it."
Bidders paid out over $100,000 EACH for the first three examples of a production Segway.
Well, we all know how it went from there.
I want to thank Dean Kamen for permanently calibrating my expectations when
Ultimate Problem: Too Expensive (Score:5, Insightful)
I live about a mile from nearby subway stations, and have been known to be an early adopter - a perfect candidate for a Segway (other than the fact that I'm not sure about it's viability in Boston winter conditions). I told myself that I'd buy one once they got down to about $1500. Well, it's five years later and the price hasn't budged. If they really wanted to change the world, they would have figured out a way to sell them for $1000.
-BbT
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A few points (Score:5, Insightful)
I am come Price, destroyer of new worlds. (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems to me that changing the way people move in and out of cities is a catch-22 phenomenon. No matter how compatible your new idea is with existing modes of transportation (which the Segway, in truth, was not), you need the city to provide infrastructure before it will be widely adopted. And cities won't provide infrastructure until there is widespread adoption. The only way around this is to price the thing at a level where a lot of people will simply say "what the hell" and start using them, creating a problem that cities have to respond to. People are so much better at responding to problems than planning.
Truthfully, cities don't make more than token concessions to bikes, which compared to supporting Segways are much simpler to accomodate. Some cities even don't seem to give a damn about pedestrians. The only way to change this is the same way that automakers killed public transit: be willing to lose a lot of money in order to make not using your product inconvenient for people.
Segway Knock-offs? (Score:3, Interesting)
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You're going to have to wait a long time:
http://www.delphion.com/details?&pn=US05971091__ [delphion.com]
I do like the Centaur [segway.com] and I can't find them anymore but there was another segway like thing for handicapped people that was like a wheelchair that grew so that the person was at eye level. That looked like it kicked ass for people confined to a wheelchair.
A minor Nit to Pick (Score:2)
"Thousands have sold, but not nearly as many as Segway hoped for." is altogether vague. Is that 1000 a year? Or 400 a year?
After five years I can count on one hand the number of Segways that I've actaully seen. That suggests that they have been much less than smashing sucess.
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If they were $50, there would be many, many more of them out in the streets.
9/11 Effect? (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps the Segway would have met the same "meh" fate either way but does anyone think that, had 9/11 never happened, the Segway would have met a better response?
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I had/have a number of issues with the segway (Score:2, Insightful)
2. The biggest issue I have though is why encourage people to get less exercise than they get already? This has bugged me since I read the first over-hyped preview of the Segue. People should be encouraged to walk. Not to drop 5g's so every form of exercise they can possibly get should be removed from their l
Last time I recall the Segway on Slashdot... (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Be an order of magnitude cheaper
2) Break down into a package small and light enough to carry on public transportation
Otherwise, it's just an expensive glorified electric scooter
I stand by my original accessment...
My mistake... (Score:3, Funny)
No biggie (Score:2)
Seems to me that anywhere the Segway can go, a person can walk or bike just as easily (or more easily). The people who could actually make use of it, the elderly, probably shouldn't risk riding one as even a multi-talented President can fall off of one.
Never seen one (Score:2)
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If I had 5K to spare I might have one to gather dust next to my bicycle that I hardly use either!
It's all dressed up with no where to go.
Acceptance would bring other problems (Score:2)
Are you going to have to bring a kryptonite lock to secure your segway every time you go to the grocery store? Is it even designed for that? (having something just as strong as the lock to bolt onto, otherwise locking it would be pointless).
Segways will flourish when patents expire (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not THAT complicated, after all... (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.teamhassenplug.org/robots/legway/ [teamhassenplug.org]
I can see the Segway being expensive for being an electric scooter, but 5000$USD is way too expensive.
It's just needs a better power source (Score:2)
NIMBY! (Score:2)
my main issue with the segway: (Score:5, Insightful)
I would rather walk than stand put on that little platform, as is.
if it were twice as fast, then it would make sense (but than again, its autostabilisation would crap its virutal pants when dealing with 4 times the kinetic energy).
I met one once in real live, and while it was faster than walking pace, i could effortlessly drive a lot faster on a bike (which is cheaper, has "unlimited range", a physical autostabilisation called "rotational inertia" and light enough to just pick up and carry up some stairs)
If Paris Hilton can fall off a Segway ... (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxtc75biScU [youtube.com]
She almost had a shish-ka-Paris with that mop strapped to her backside.
For those who do not want to RFTA (Score:2, Insightful)
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Can't ride it on the sidewalk because it's classed as a vehicle.
Hmm.. that has some interesting implications regarding a previous poster's discussion of falling off of one while trying to joust with it, drunk... Illinois (and probably other states) use "motor vehicle" in their definition of DUI, so that it applies to things like electric carts and such.
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But the same applies to bicycles. Are you saying that cyclists should be banned from the roads?
On the other hand I agree with your comparison to th C5. It will fail, like the C5, because it's a lousy idea. If you want cheap urban transport simply go to two wheels. In the centre of towns a bicycle is preferable. If you're doing serious distances then try a motorbike. Faster, c
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In my opinion that's not bad, it's smart because
I am not sure if Dean over-hyped the Segway leading to disappointing sales.
I am sure that most of Segway sales are a result of the hype, not despite it. It's the classic tech adoption curve: you have to sell a new gadget to the early adopters who will buy something because it is new. If you don't insinuate your produ