Man Gets 6 Years for Software Piracy 321
smooth wombat writes "In what prosecutors are calling 'the ultimate case', a Florida man has been sentenced to six years in prison for selling illegal copies of computer programs. From the article: 'Danny Ferrer, of Lakeland, Fla., pleaded guilty in June to conspiracy and copyright infringement charges after an FBI investigation of his Web site, BuysUSA.com. Ferrer also was ordered to pay more than $4.1 million in restitution to software makers Adobe Systems Inc., Autodesk, and Macromedia Inc.' The judge ordered that items he bought with the money, including airplanes, a Lamborghini and other cars, be sold off to pay for the restitution."
easy way out (Score:5, Funny)
Re:easy way out (Score:5, Funny)
1. Read popular story
2. Read new story
3. Make some humorously ironic comment on the current story based on newly-gained group knowledge from previous story.
4. Add optional Soviet Russia joke, Overlord welcome, or "Oh, wait..." sentence fragment at end.
5. Profit!!!
So that formula is my invention. Please sign the following NDA with prior-invention clause below...
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:easy way out (Score:4, Funny)
2. Read new story
3. Read humorously ironic comment on the current story based on newly-gained group knowledge from previous story with added optional Soviet Russia joke, Overlord welcome, or "Oh, wait..." sentence fragment at end.
4. Respond with underpant gnomes formula list with optional "???" step.
5. ???
6. Profit!!!
Patent infringed! You'll never catch me! I'm anonymous! HAHAH!
Re:easy way out (Score:5, Funny)
You left a step out, if you plan to profit.
5. Patent the idea
6. Sue anybody who tries to use it.
7. Profit!!!
H.
Won't affect "buy cheap software" spam (Score:3, Funny)
...
(See, there are other ways to karma-whore besides making standard jokes about in Soviet Russia, our new %s overlords ..Profit! from You :-)
Wow... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Wow... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Wow... (Score:4, Funny)
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I'm not so sure about that. He has to pay $4.1 million, and they are talking about liquidating his assets to collect on it. Granted, he could have stashed a bunch away somewhere that noone knows about. The article doesn't say how much he made selling the software. It mentions that it could have cost the companies more than $20 million, but that doesn't tell you much about what he actually brought in (selling a $100 program for $20, then making $4.1mil "
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Unless he has assets hidden away that the Government can't find or touch, he can say goodbye to what he has under RICO. As it is, they are selling off his assets to pay the judgement, but I'm sure anything that is left will be taken by the Government. We are not talking about someone who lived in his Mom's basement and traded software on the P2P networks -- we are talking someone who made enough to get Ferraris and boats and who knows what else.
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First dibs on searching his parent's yard with a metal detector!
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Though based on the fact that they've apparently already seized some of his belongings he apparently wasn't that smart (unless of course they seized them and they WERE owned by the trust, in which case the trust could sue
Not this case (Score:2)
In the end, he might still have something left, but would it be worth the 6 years in the slammer?
I just hope this doesn't set a precedent for non-profitable infringements such as music/software downloads, or download sampling (download, and then either erase or buy).
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If your odds on the street are 1%, then both figures are accurate.
Re:Wow... (Score:5, Insightful)
It sounds like you've never worked in corrections. Ever stepped foot inside of an American correctional facility? 6 years in a Florida prison is decidedly not 'nothing'. My company contracts with the FL DOC and a day in one of those facilities would be too much for me.
Also remember that once a felon, always a felon. A convicted felon has major obstacles in housing, employment, etc for the rest of their life. I'm not saying that I have a better way, but lock 'em up and throw away the keys isn't any kind of solution. After spending 6 years in the pokey, this gentleman will have a very difficult time re-entering society.
Finally, the law is simply not black-and-white. Dealing in absolutes is a frightening thing, and most judges tend to understand this (fortunately). Prosecutors tend to go for the maximum available sentence. Imagine getting into a bar fight and by way of a freak accident, you kill a man with a single punch. Do you think that you deserve to get locked up for life? What about for a consentual sex act and your partner changes their mind about it after the fact and presses charges? Does that justify rotting away in prison for the rest of your life?
While I think that our justice system is flawed, I can't think of a better way. However, the absolute and totalitarian justice system that you envision is pretty frightening to me. I'm sure glad that's not the country that we live in.
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Re:Wow... (Score:5, Insightful)
This was a deliberate, willful act, showing complete disregard for personal responsibility within our society. Not only did he take advantage of corporations, but no doubt thousands of people who didn't know that the software they purchased was not legitimate. I know it sounds strange to those of us "in the know", but many of my collegues and friends have asked me over the years about these amazing deals they've found on software. I would also imagine that this person was a heavy spammer, in which case he played a role in the ongoing destruction of a communication system that was at one time simple, cheap, and beneficial to all.
While the rest of us scratch it out at real jobs or run our own legitimate businesses, driving around in Honda Civics and trying to stay ahead of the bills, this guy was essentially living it up.
I agree that our justice system is extremely flawed, but it's the only one we've got. Until it is fixed, we still have to maintain a system in which people are punished for their crimes. Six years sounds pretty hard, even considering the actual amount of time he'll problably spend is much less. I'm not sure what a better solution would be though. Six years of hardcore community service? Well, if I was the type of person with low enough ethics to consider making millions of dollars illegally, I might feel a little better about pursuing the action if I knew that I probably wouldn't serve any time behind bars. Sure it would suck to sell off my Hummer, my Lamborghini, my personal airplanes, and my fighter-jet simulator to pay restitution, but somehow I don't see that stopping me.
If he had stopped at paying off his wife's medical bills, I would feel more compassion, and the legal system probably would have too. The one shining bright spot of our system is that it is designed to consider each case individually. I'm very much against three strike systems and ridiculously high minimum sentences.
Re:Wow... (Score:5, Interesting)
neonprimetime: What if, what if, what if. Don't put yourself in those positions and you wouldn't have to worry about it.
Let's see, your advice is to NOT get into the position where you are drinking at bars and having sex with women. j-turkey is worried about "accidentally" killing a man with a single punch when shit goes down. Yeah, I think I'm gonna go hang out with j-turkey.
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Re:Wow... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can understand the steep financial penalty, but 6 years seems awfully harsh for a crime where no one was physically harmed.
I'm certain the victims of Michael Milken and the Enron brass see things differently.
dear, we've got alpo or ken-l-ration for dinner tonight
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To make everything kosher though... I'll be sure not to break anything or cause any other 'physical harm.'
Re:Wow... (Score:5, Informative)
Judging by the amount he got from this, he was not exactly small fry. Who knows what lengths he went to protecting an illicit business of that size. Certainly a sizeable chunk of change was diverted from normal streams and a fine and a slap on the wrist for him would probably not be too much discouragement for other people in similar situations who are watching his case.
I beg your pardon.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Judging by the amount he got from this, he was not exactly small fry. Who knows what lengths he went to protecting an illicit business of that size ..
From this list: numerous airplanes, a fighter-jet simulator, a Lamborghini, a Hummer and other luxury vehicles he was clearly not a stealthy individual. That's a pretty ostentatious list of items and I would be inclined to think the US Treasury Department would have noticed this first. Florida officials may have had him confused with a drug lord or pro
Re:I beg your pardon.. (Score:4, Funny)
He should have bought gold and burried it in his parent's backyard. And lived in a shanty apt.
Re:Wow... (Score:4, Funny)
I don't know, seeing a fat balding italian guy [theledger.com] in a Lamborghini hurts my eyes...
Re:Wow... (Score:5, Funny)
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Also note that he isn't in it which is another hint that this isn't the car I'm talking about.
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I am sure Lamborghini has a clause that say only good lokoing people onder 35 with a full head of hair are allowed to keep the clause. Of couse the clause is waived if in the passenger seat there is a young slim woman with huge breasts.
Ciao
Are Financial Crimes Victimless? (Score:5, Insightful)
By that definition, the Enron board, the WorldCom board and all others who cause purely financial damages should be given light sentences.
Noble ideals aside, in a monetized society, money does become essential: Without it, you don't get to eat, don't get health insurance, lose your home, etc.
This guy made enough he could buy sportscars, planes, the works. Even if you just look at the $4.1m restitution, that's a lot of salaries Adobe, Macromedia and Autodesk could have paid. It's easy to dismiss it as "Oh well, they're big companies, no harm, no foul." but it becomes much more of an issue when they cut the job of a guy whose health insurance got his daughter treatment for cancer.
So, yes, there's no easy direct link to physical harm caused. But the trickle down effect, just like the Enron and Worldcom guys wiping out people's retirements, may well be far more dramatic overall than a single assault. Given that you can't track down every indirect result, all you can do is look at the quantity of money, get a feel for the effects the fraudulent reappropriation of that likely had, and then accept that increasing dollar amounts can be translated in to just as increasing "likelihood" of physical harm.
Is say physical assualt bad? Absolutely. And whilst worse for one person, I'm not convinced the overall suffering is actually worse than say ten guys facing the gnawing fear of layoffs, ten wives dealing with losing their homes they poured their souls in to, ten kids having to deal with daddy suddenly being unemployed and having to move away from friends and ten families living with the risk of no medical insurance.
Re:Are Financial Crimes Victimless? (Score:5, Interesting)
"This guy made enough he could buy sportscars, planes, the works. Even if you just look at the $4.1m restitution, that's a lot of salaries Adobe, Macromedia and Autodesk could have paid. It's easy to dismiss it as "Oh well, they're big companies, no harm, no foul." but it becomes much more of an issue when they cut the job of a guy whose health insurance got his daughter treatment for cancer."
Very well put.
A common Slashdot response to the piracy issue is "the person wouldn't have bought the legitimate copy anyway." In this case, the guy was selling copies of $649 software for $99. This is roughly comparable to the discount that allofmp3.com offers on music, and many people defend their allofmp3.com use because they cannot afford to pay $1 / track. Just like allofmp3.com, this fellow was able to sell $649 software for $99 because he did not need to worry about paying the rightsholders. Unfortunately, lots of people would disagree with you about actual harm to Adobe, et al.
I suspect that if this were a story about music piracy, the guys writing "They're big companies, no harm, no foul" would be the ones with the 5, Insightful ratings, where you'd be marked down as a troll and likely accused of astroturfing.
Re:Are Financial Crimes Victimless? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Well, allofmp3.com is not breaking any law. They are compliant with all US laws and all Russian laws."
Another poster addressed this claim; however, whether something is illegal or not does not necessarily make it right. The fellow in Florida would be no more or less right or wrong in what he did if it were illegal to, say, sell pirated software in Florida.
"Just because you think allofmp3 should be illegal does not mean it is."
...I said no such thing...
"Your lies about the $1 a track not being affordable is not a correct statement."
Oh, by all means, I can certainly afford a buck a song. Stick around Slashdot long enough and you'll find plenty of people who claim that they cannot. High prices are a common justification around here for using P2P or the Russian sites. Sad, but true.
"allofmp3.com is the only place I know where you can legally download (legal if you are in Russia, questionable legality if you are in the US, though that has never been decided in court) non-DRM files in a variety of formats, including lossless."
Above, you said that allofmp3.com is compliant with all US laws; here you are saying it is of questionable legality. Can you clarify? At any rate, if you want some good, cheap DRM-free music available in more formats than iTMS offers you, check out emusic.com and Magnatune. And unlike allofmp3, they pay the artists and there's no "questionable legality" to fret over.
"Since you can't see the difference between that and someone that knowingly breaks copyright, fraud and other laws (wait until the IRS gets a hold of him) with the intent to profit at the expense of the company he is imitating and the people he lies to while selling his fraudulent product, then you are a nutjob no more logical than people that illegally copy music and clam it is legal or a moral imperative or such."
I think you've nailed it, Einstein. Any other words you want to put into my mouth? Any more straw men you want to build today?
Re:Are Piracy Crimes Victimless? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't normally respond to ACs, but this is a great question:
"Clear this up for me. How can people who can afford a computer (usually a nice on), supplies (CDs, DVDs, Scanners), and a broadband connection not be able to afford music, movies, software, games, or books?"
They can afford them, of course. They simply choose not to buy the stuff legimately.
We humans have a great capacity for rationalization. "I use [ P2P | allofmp3.com ] because buying CDs or from the iTMS is too expensive!" removes them a bit from the implications of piracy -- you see, they have no choice, because the real deal is simply priced too high. I take a more pragmatic approach; if you'd rather keep that $1 in your pocket by using P2P, then just say that it is so.
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4.1 million dollars can do alot of good and prevent alot of bad. Does this guy deserve to die for it?
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The value of all the stuff he has purchased from his crimes has since depreciated. There is no way he will be able to make full restitution for the damage he has done
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A company's profits dropping by some number of millions of dollars is going to result in downsizing and people losing their jobs. Period. Sure, Joe B. Employee *shouldn't* be hurt by that sort of thing, but out here in the real world, he is.
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"He harmed the folks who worked on the software and weren't paid. This guy made enough money to buy a Lamborghini and other cars, and multiple airplanes, for crying out loud. That's millions. Frankly, the sentence seems kind of low considering how much money he made that should have gone to the software developers who actually did the work."
A thought experiment here: the guys at allofmp3.com likely sell more than 100,000 downloads per month, so they've probably made their first million. They are selling
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Killing is too good for spammers.
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Anyone who agrees with this should stop and consider the fact that this scumbag was undoubtably also a spammer. And as a spammer, he's probably responsible for a huge number of zombie machines and all the other stuff that's crapping up the Internet. Death sentence, anyone?
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6 years in prison is too long, not that he shuld ahve got any.
Personally, I believe probation and 6 years of community service would have been better.
Good! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Good! (Score:5, Funny)
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Downloading pirated copies is like taking a picture of a prostitue in flagrante delicto without paying extra.
Selling pirated copies is like pimping the prostitutes, then taking away all their money (sex slavery in effect)?
Of course, if you have no intention to buy the product in the first place, then downloading warez just to check them out is more like sneaking a peek at the said prostitute engagins some other john.
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So if you're a successful financial criminal, all you have to do is pay a fine, and you're done?
Wash, rinse, repeat.
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Why don't you just give the thief a hug? (Score:2)
Crime is a gamble... When the punishment is far less severe than the potential profit, many people will feel compelled to commit the crime. If a person only gets caught for a fraction of the crimes they commit, then your silly hug-a-thug idea will only encourage people to commit more crimes, since there will be a point at which the profit from the crimes they get away with exceeds the minor "reimbursements" they have to pay when they are actually caught.
Theft is a
The worst part of his dastardly deed (Score:5, Funny)
Good riddance.
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Does this mean... (Score:2, Insightful)
Does this mean I'm getting less spam from him? I'm still getting a lot which offer s1gnificant disc0unts on s0ftware
Bugs me it took long enough to take this guy out for him to buy all that stuff. Clearly the BSA or whatever industry watchdog isn't terribly vigilant, unless it comes to a knock on your company door, wishing to audit all your software licences and installations, while this potlicker was operating within the USA long enough to amass a fortune.
I don't understand (Score:3, Interesting)
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It just goes to prove crime does not pay. if you cant get away with it
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archve.org link (Score:5, Interesting)
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- "Oh god it burns!" (red background = bad)
- "'This site permanently shut down' - yeah right. I wonder how much the domain will go for at auction..."
- "Please, please, please don't be goatse..."
- "Why is there a Sun logo in the favicon?"
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From TFL (Link):
To prevent unauthorized distribution this product requires Telephone activation within 30 days of installation. You MUST activate the software while at your computer as the activation request number will change. We will provide you with the telephone number to activate the software. Please have your invoce number handy before calling. This activation technology has been developed by Adobe to prevent piracy.
That is both gutsy and sneaky. It's not surprising that, in this click on spam
At least he's against software piracy (Score:2, Informative)
You understand that once the seal is broken on software products we will not take them back and No refund will be issued, as we have no guarantee that it or they have been removed from your computer. We will however promptly exchange defective products. This is the same policy that all software vendors have in common. You cannot buy software at a retail store and then expect a refund once you have opened it and installed it on your computer. This would be considered software piracy
Good (Score:5, Insightful)
This guy is driving exotic cars and ripping off people at both sides, the companies who actually create the stuff, and the unsuspecting comsumer (read: idiot) who paid for this stuff thinking he was getting a good deal, and winds up getting screwed (not that you can really sympathize with anyone dumb enough to fall for this, but I guess greed overcomes common sense).
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Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the kind of thing that we should be cracking down on, the commercial pirates, not teenagers and old ladies who download a song or two.
Well, yeah. This is what copyright law was actually intended to do-- stop publishers from making money by undercutting the people who invested their own time and money to bring something to market. The other stuff is just an abuse of the law.
Re:Good (Score:4, Insightful)
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Damn him for driving his exotic cars!!
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"Is 200 the same as 2? No, but 200 is a whole lot closer to 2 than it is to thousands."
The other article was confusing because it refers to "downloading" but the issue that the record companies have with her is that she's sharing those 200 songs. If ten people downloaded each song, that's 2,000+ unauthorized copies. Meanwhile, the fellow in Florida sold about 2,000 unauthorized copies of PhotoShop for $99 each to pay for his Lambo.
Now there's one business model... (Score:5, Funny)
Now there's one business model that certainly could have benefited from picking FOSS.
Hey, here's an idea: maybe we should push this as counter-FUD:
Man sentenced to six years for picking proprietary software
Intrinsic risks of "poison pill" licenses overlooked by many
It's just a thought.
--MarkusQ
Or in the offensive (Score:2)
He could very well be selling FOSS. (Score:2)
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That's bloody brilliant, it is. :-)
Selling commercial software without license (Score:2)
I think he got what he deserved, he was clearly stealing.
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Yes, he should have been penelized, but I think the penelty is wrong, expensive, and pointless.
I think making him do weekend service during a six year period would be better for society, less cost to taxpayers, and leave a bed in prison for someone who physically harmed another.
Still fine him and sell all his stuff, and it should go on his record.
Breaking news... (Score:4, Insightful)
How many adobe acrobats in a Limborghini? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder how many adobe acrobat software packages you have to sell to pay for a Lamborghini? I mean seriously, this guy was making piles of money:
Ferrer's Web site began selling software in 2002 and was shut down by the FBI in October 2005, authorities said. Prosecutors said the illegal sales cost the software companies as much as $20 million, but industry officials say the amount could be higher.
How exactly were these numbers computed?? This is all going back to the dead horse "but people wouldn't have bought the package if it was too expensive" argument; figuring the losses as each unit sold being a loss is absurd.
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What makes you think he was selling the software for dirt cheap? Maybe he was selling PhotoShop for $20 less than the legit resellers. After all, if you sell PhotoShop for $15, everyone's going to know it's pirated. But at $20 less than next guy, you're going to think it's just a good deal. If somebody's going to pay $479 for
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In the case you mentioned I would say the amounts they are computing would be accurate, but in this case the price he was selling at was much lower.
Justice Fails Again... (Score:2, Interesting)
6 yrs for Copyright Infringement? I imagine if you do a comparison of what other crimes will get you six years or less, you'd be baffled at this judgement (I'm lazy, you look it up). Espec
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What about financially monopolizing the sector (Score:2)
RIAA, that is you.
Straight from the buysusa user agreement! (Score:4, Interesting)
7a: You are not permitted to duplicate or illegally distribute any product purchased from Buysusa. You agree to abide by the End User License Agreement contained within those products. You assume full responsibility for complying with all copyright laws. All products offered by Buysusa are fully compliant with sec. 117 of the US copyright laws. Buysusa reserves the right to refuse any customer for any reason. You understand that in order for Buysusa to make you a copy (OEM) of any software, you acknowledge that you are the legal owner of this same software, and are looking to just make a new copy (OEM) for archival (backup) purposes only. You also agree to destroy all copies of the software in the event it is ever no longer voluntarily in your possession. You understand that only the licensed owner (with a valid serial number, where applicable) of the various software found on Buysusa may use the services located here. You also acknowledge that the software you have was obtained legally and that you have the legal right to request this backup (oem) copy to be made. If you obtained your version though any other means, including any pirated versions, or if you do not already legally own the same version of the software requested, then you may not use this service. you also agree to hold Buysusa harmless for any damages that may occur for your failure to follow the U.S. Copyright and other laws as they pertain to the backup (OEM software) you are requesting. When you purchase any backup (oem) copy of software through Buysusa, you agree to assume full liability in the event your actions are deemed illegal. Buysusa does not condone software piracy and has every intention of complying with the laws pertaining to the duplication of software. By placing an order for software, you declare and warrant that you are provided all material on an "AS IS" basis, and Buysusa makes no representation or warranties of any kind. All title and intellectual property rights remain those of the respective content owner and any intellectual property protected by laws and treaties, without grant or rights to use, and not to copy or print. Any such documentation, serial number, activation services or material that is accompanying any software or document is provided by Buysusa only as documentation or to ease installation in the event your originals are lost, with no basis of value. The laws of the State of Florida will govern this agreement.
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Now we have something to point to when people ask "What's wrong with software licenses?".
I almost wish he had gotten off due to this agreement; that would have really driven the point home. Licenses are just another way to illustrate the core of capitalism: Try to get away with whatever you can, however you can.
He's got a criminal record, apparently (Score:4, Interesting)
that appears to be him... complete with mugshot and everything.
Ok, he got what he deserved (Score:2)
Makes me feel a lot better about that advice now.
I wonder if he knew the guy I used to sit next to here at work - who was featured on Dateline, in Ft Myers a few months ago? You might remember him - "Generic White Male"
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Florida (Score:2)
No remorse (Score:2)
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Perhaps or maybe it's the idea that this bloke is much more likely to get a reduced sentence or parol due to the nature of his crime. Not to say that violent criminals don't but I'd like to think it's much less likely. Just for the record: IANAL.
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Percentage-wise, the federal govt. has already handed out financial
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So if all these nifty free tools exist, why do people pirate? It's either 1) they don't know, or 2) the tools don't measure up - or both.
I'd say a C compiler isn't what people are looking for when they buy pirated software. It's Windows, Office and Photoshop. When the OSS offerings compete with those in every way, will we see a drop in piracy?
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I think so. The problem is, they don't, and they aren't trying to. Instead of working on filling in the needed missing features and working on stability, most developers enjoy developing new, nifty features that like four people need.
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Selling a pirated copy of software is a criminal offence... Ok. got that bit
Giving away software (file sharing) is not a criminal offence, but an infringement of someone's copyright; therefore they can sue you in a civil suit.
You can go to jail with a criminal offence but you do not be jailed for losing a civil suit. (you are usually ordered to pay money to the copyright holder.
There are maximum (financial) penalties in place for the criminal offence, but not the civil suit, (
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our most famous avenue, Av. Paulista in Sao Paulo, is full of guys selling pirated software, music, etc,
Among other things...
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