Zune - Microsoft Killer or Next Apple Victim? 159
prophet asks: "Now that we have all seen the new Microsoft 'Zune', and the suits over at Microsoft have seen fit to inform us of a whole line of 'Zune' related hardware and software products, my real question is, will Microsoft be able to de-throne the ever growing iPod phenom? With the current confirmed 'Zune' prototype photos dispersed throughout the net, it is hard to see how Microsoft has thought that the current design of the 'Zune' is in fact enough in its current form for users to be pleased aesthetically, and at the same time impressed by ease of use. At the current moment, rumors are circulating of a redesign of the controls on Microsoft's part before a complete release. With the current aesthetical design of the Zune, will it appeal to the masses in the way the iPod did? More importantly, does it appeal to you?
who wrote that title? (Score:3, Insightful)
What, if anything, does that have to do with the content of the article?
I doubt that Zune will kill Microsoft, although it does seem like it will be largely ignored.
Apple's too entrenched in the audio-player market. Microsoft should pick a new territory to explore, and firmly establish themeslves in if they want to compete with apple.
Re:who wrote that title? (Score:1)
Re:who wrote that title? (Score:2)
Re:who wrote that title? (Score:2)
Yeah, about as entrenched as Netscape once was in the browser market. It took Microsoft about five minutes to kill them.
Re:who wrote that title? (Score:2)
Like many monopolies, Microsoft do not do particularly well in areas where their
Re:who wrote that title? (Score:3, Funny)
I guess its just as logical as most of what MS does.
Re:who wrote that title? (Score:2)
Re:who wrote that title? (Score:5, Informative)
There've been some terrible titles as of late. Today I saw something from the "Pay what you get for" department. Someone loves to garble English.
Re:who wrote that title? (Score:2)
I guess, when it comes to Slashdot, you truly do get that for which you pay.
Re:who wrote that title? (Score:2)
Meh (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Meh (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Meh (Score:2)
Pretty much anyone who has experience with Microsoft, namely through their crappy OS, has to be a half-blown system admin.
They need to understand the nuances of OS updates, antivirus, spyware etc.
In the MS world, the only ones not technically minded are our grandmas and sisters.
Re:Meh (Score:2)
Plus, I have plenty of un-technical friends who own PCs and run Windows, to my knowledge they haven't had to brush up on their sys-adminning skills they've just got on with using their computers.
Re:Meh (Score:5, Interesting)
Look at the advertising for Xbox. The connection with Microsoft is subdued or non-existant--maybe a little Microsoft logo at the bottom of the screen below the much larger Xbox logo. Heck, there are plenty of people who don't really know/care about the connection with iPod and Apple (for that matter, there are plenty of people who don't know the connection between Macintosh and Apple).
As I've said before, most people don't actually buy Windows. They buy Dell, Gateway, HP, Lenovo, or whatever. Windows is just something that comes along with it. When something goes wrong with their computer, they don't necessarily blame Microsoft--they blame the company they bought the computer from. Heck, how many people do you know who have used "Netscape" or "Lotus"? People don't understand these things, nor do they care.
So I could see Zune getting the same treatment as Xbox and make it more of a brand unto itself. It makes sense, really. Arguably, the "Microsoft" brand has it's best recognition among corporations. The "Microsoft" brand doesn't carry a whole lot of weight elsewhere. So why bother with it. It's not the "Microsoft Zune", it's just Zune.
Re:Meh (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Meh (Score:2)
Microsoft mice are dirt collectors. They need to be cleaned every few weeks. I have Logitech mice at home, and they never need cleaning.
And their keyboards ? I don't know, I pick Cherries every day, for fifteen years already.
Re:Meh (Score:2)
can you hear the clicking yet...?
Re:Meh (Score:2)
They cannot be used in my office, since they don't last very long. We don't have similar problems with Kensington, or Logitech (by far the most reliable brand).
MS Wireless Keyboard/Mouse sets tend to last no more than 1-2 years before either the keyboard or mouse fails, which basically requires you to replace the set. I've never had a Logitech wireless set go bad, with the partial exception of one old, old wirless logitech (mechanical) mouse I ha
Re:Meh (Score:2)
No, they won't. Microsoft is not hip. It will not be hip, unlike Apple. iPod is a lifestyle-device, and you simply cannot sell it with a brand like Microsoft. It simply is not cool. Sorry.
Re:Meh (Score:2)
Re:Meh (Score:2)
Re:Meh (Score:1)
Re:It doesn't matter (Score:2)
I may have a business proposition for you!
Microsoft != Apple (Score:4, Insightful)
In short, MS has neither the credibility, nor understanding of what the market they're selling to wants (unless you consider "their market" to be the content industry, as opposed to consumers). It won't kill MS, but apple has no reason to loose any sleep either.
Re:Microsoft != Apple (Score:5, Insightful)
That is exactly where Microsoft see their market.
This has nothing to do with products or services, Microsoft is waging war to be the default DRM source, to get a cut of every "media" sale from every source.
They want one big check from Time-Warner, not a godzillion little checks from those annoying consumers.
KFG
Re:Microsoft != Apple (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft != Apple (Score:4, Insightful)
You can't expect them to be happy about things. If they can't maintain a form of "natural" monopoly (given that copyright isn't actually natural) they'll take an artificial one through DRM.
What might be less obvious is that they aren't exactly thrilled with Apple's paying customers either. They aren't making much money on it and Steve is emerging as an outsider dictating terms to the industry that depends on control.
They'll be pefectly happy to play divide and conquer, playing Steve and Bill off against each other while they search for some form of DRM under the control of an industry entity, as per the DVD Forum.
Of course if any of them win you know who loses.
KFG
Re:Microsoft != Apple (Score:2)
To me, the question is, will it be much cheaper than iPods?
While I dislike DRM in principle, I'd rather use a license system from Microsoft than Sony, anything from a Cellular company would probably suck as well.
Only other company I see being 'li
Re:Microsoft != Apple (Score:1)
In ten years you'll be picking up personal media player devices as an impulse buy while standing in line at the drugstore for about twenty bucks. Have patience my child.
I'd rather use a license system from Microsoft than Sony. .
How about, oooooooooh, I don't know, refusing to support any encoding format that isn't free and open? It's a simple plan, but it just might work.
KFG
Re:Microsoft != Apple (Score:2)
'free and open' doesn't meet everyones needs; e-mail is free and open, and innundated with spam. at some point it's worth it to pay a little for a step up in quality.
Re:Grammar Nazi (Score:1)
But Dude, I just did.
KFG
Re:Grammar Nazi (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft != Apple (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't find a better analogy, and I fear that this thing is gonna work.
I don't see the problem (Score:5, Funny)
1.) It has wireless.
2.) It has more space than a Nomad.
So this thing should be good to go!
Re:I don't see the problem (Score:3, Funny)
But...but...it's Micro$oft! Evil! Antitrust! WGA! Security! DRM! Plus, it's got the added drawback of competing with beloved Apple.
So the answer is: no, it does not and will not appeal to us, and in the rare event that it does, we wouldn't dare admit it here on Slashdot.
Re:I don't see the problem (Score:2)
Re:I don't see the problem (Score:2, Funny)
Microsoft will persist (Score:4, Interesting)
One question (with a rather obvious answer) is "do you see Microsoft exiting this market once they enter it?" Microsoft rarely concedes defeat; they just release a new version.
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:1)
thank you microsoft, by paying you a little then I don't have to deal with you at all now
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:3, Insightful)
Strongly disagreed. The Xbox was a new entry into the console playing field when the arena was already largely dominated by Nintendo and Sony, and in a few short years MS has bought themselves a very significant portion of the pie. The Xbox was a fine machine, and its reliability was no worse than the PS2. The GC AFAIK was largely known to be a solid machine, but both the Xbox and PS2 experienced significant drive failures. The difference here is that PS2 drives are *still* dying, whereas late-gen Xboxes we
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:2)
But I most definitely think that the gamecube pad sucks. Horribly.
The buttons are all different sizes, for god sakes. And it does NOT fit in my hand. I like the Dual Shock controller, and I like the Xbox gamepad; but I hate the gamecube pad.
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:3, Insightful)
Xbox not for E rated games (Score:1)
What about the fact that most of the popular/hyped Xbox exclusive games were rated T or M?
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:1)
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft is a long term company. They have been defeated at times (Bob, Ultimate TV and their internet-on-TV box are examples, they died pretty quietly) but they've managed to hold on to several markets. Their pocket OS is still around and now a strong player though in a weak market of PDAs (I think they are in more PDAs than Palm's OS), and there are a lot of Windows phones. There are definitely a lot more Microsoft-based phones than there are Apple-based or iTunes-based phones. Now, to compete against Windows phones, Apple would have to get their phone mostly right the first iteration, and the more they wait, the weaker their chances are.
Microsoft will poison the market. (Score:2)
Their pocket OS is still around and now a strong player though in a weak market of PDAs
Weak? Don't you mean destroyed?
That's a good example of how M$ style dominance does not always lead to M$ making any money. They and Intel used their OS "lever" and a slew of lawsuits to destroy Palm and other competitors in that space. What's left over in the US is a bunch of Windoze only crap that has yet to live up to the Sharp Zaurus or even the Handspring Visor. No one's buying it because it does not work rig
Re:Microsoft will poison the market. (Score:2)
No. Bullshit. Fact is, Palm devices were terrible compared to Windows Mobile devices from the same period. Utterly pisspoor.
What's left over in the US is a bunch of Windoze only crap that has yet to live up to the Sharp Zaurus or even the Handspring Visor. No one's buying it because it does not work right.
Even more bullshit. The Handspring Visor, compared to most of today's Windows Mobile devices,
Re:Microsoft will poison the market. (Score:2)
The hardware of the devices running Windows CE or Windows Mobile 2003 was better than the Palm hardware. Not quite as nice as the Psion 5 series of course.
Everything else the Palm was better at.
Windows Mobile 2005 finally is quite reasonable. Sadly it took 5 years for Microsoft to get there.
I find it heinous that on a PDA such as the Dell X3x series, losing battery power loses everythi
Re:Microsoft will poison the market. (Score:2)
A small device that allows you to access information while away from your desktop without requiring the expense / weight / size of a laptop. Not a device for watching videos on, or listening to music, or editing spreadsheets / documents in their native format. Even nicer was the issue that the simple black and white screen gave you 2-4 *weeks* of operating time on a single set of batteries (in the III series).
You could,
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:2)
I'm not sure that any of those are good examples. They aren't product lines that Microsoft abandoned, just projects. No one else is doing Bob or Web TV. Ultimate TV has been replaced by Windows Media Center.
Bob was an alternative Windows interface. Seeing as how Windows is still around, I wouldn't say that they were "defeated" -- just wrong about which direction their product was goin
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:2)
That is rarely true. Historically, after a few tries, MS will resort to any number of illegal actions. That has worked well whenever it involved their platform. But once it it is a cross platform, then MS has not faired all that well. It remains to be seen how they will act.
Now, with that said, I would not bet a penny in apples favor.:)
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:1)
Now, the important question: Does it run Linux?
Re:Microsoft will persist (Score:2)
Good Luck... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're gonna need it.
It won't succeed. They are aiming after something that is WAY too popular and extremely well designed. To get people off the iPod, you're going to have to pass it and that will be very tough with current technology (especially batteries).
But let's talk about the BIG feature. Let's talk about something people have been wanting from the iPod for quite a while. Let's talk wireless. People say Zune will be able to buy and download music wirelessly.
It won't.
I read a report earlier today that said that was a misunderstanding and that basically the wireless functionality was to let you see what OTHER people with Zunes in the area were listening to. I read a little blurb that one of the low end MP3 player makers was looking at doing the same thing (only not using WiFi for it). Or are we supposed to surf the 'net on this thing too? Guess what, my PDA does that. So does my phone. And my DS. And my PSP. And my laptop. And that desktop over there. And...
That is a BIG difference between telling people what you're listening to and buying new music.
And I'm not surprised. To do that would require a ton of power. The WiFi on my Dell Axim X50v eats up battery life, that's why it's off unless I'm using it. You'd have to do the same thing, which would somewhat defeat the "buy music any time" idea. Plus, when downloading music (lots of data!) it would use a large amount of battery. You want wireless headphones instead? So do I! But then you have to keep bluetooth running which will use up power. Plus your wireless headphones are expensive and need batteries. Two sets of batteries to recharge and fail for the price of one!
Watch TV/Movies? The iPod does it.
Look at the proposed updates to the iPod. A touch screen? That's a little pointless (unless they make it into the new Newton).
And let's not forget the iTMS lock-in problem. The people who spend the most on iTMS are probably the ones you want most (because they will buy from you/your partners). But they are also the ones with the most to lose from abandoning the iPod. So you have to give away free music for every song that they bought. Fun logistics there. And you don't think the RIAA will let you do that for FREE do you?
Bob has $200 in iTMS music. He moves to Zune. MS gives him his music in their DRMed format. They just paid the RIAA the same "taxes" as if he spent $200 with them. Don't forget the hardware probably isn't high margin (like the iPod) and may even be close to even (so it's fancier for the $$$ compared to the iPod). You just lost money on that customer. What a way to make money!
Until DRM gets outlawed, Apple somehow screws up royally, or batteries improve enough to allow some of the features not useful now (wireless, longer movie playback)... Apple will remain on top.
Their position is just too strong (combined with MS's history) for me to think that Zune will change anything in the market any time soon.
PS: I have heard Zune will abandon "Plays For Sure" for something else. Considering MS did that, I'm sure that the successor will be supported for a LONG time. Sheesh.
PPS: Changing DRM to force everyone to buy a new player. Not something I can see Apple doing. MS might be considering it (given their market share is much lower but still...)
Re:Good Luck... (Score:2)
Re:Good Luck... (Score:2)
Well even with the RIAA around, I bet there are ways that could be implemented; and it would be a great feature. What if you could browse and listen to any song on my iPod, but only when you were near me physically. Once you left, you would lose files (they would only be in RAM). That would be a fun feature (especially when sitting in the airport or something like that). Best of all, you could make a way to mark songs you liked and take that list back to your computer to make purchasing easy.
But it would b
Re:Good Luck... (Score:2)
No, it isn't. The point is that if you have touch-screen, you can have a screen almost as large as the device itself, without having to waste space for actual physical controls.
Pic in article misrepresents software interface. (Score:2, Interesting)
Victom... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now I realize that many geeks share Microsoft's blind lust for a long feature list, but the general public wants something that works and is friendly to use. I expect that from Apple, but I'd be surprised to see the same in a Microsoft product.
How Microsoft can Make the Zune Win (Score:1)
Microsoft will probably work together a deal with its resellers such that whenever you buy a licensed copy of a Microsoft OS (such as with a PC purchase), you'll get a Zune for free. Apple is already doing this for students purchasing a MacBook (free iPod Nano *after rebate). It's the same line they took against Netscape Navigator with Internet Explorer.
If everyone already has a Zune, why would they want to buy an iPod, right? Or if they've got two Zune's in their family, may as well go with the house-hol
It will be another failure... (Score:4, Funny)
If you buy an iPod, nearly any kind of accessory you can dream up is available for it. Hell, most of the 2007 model year cars in the U.S. will offer iPod connectivity if not include it standard.
Plentiful software and accessories for Windows is a big part of why Windows remains popular in the face of superior alternatives. Microsoft is on the wrong end of that now.
As a long time Mac user who endured having to walk through the 90% of the local computer store dedicated to Windows crap to get to the few shelves of Mac stuff buried in the back, I have to ask, "How does it feel, fuckers?"
Re:It will be another failure... (Score:2)
As a fellow Mac user... I nominate this post for "Post of the Year". Yes, Slashdot should create a voting system and we should have a post of the year.... just a simple CSS position vote link on the right of the "Reply to This" line. Give it an AJAX IFRAME load so I don't have to
Here's an idea: innovate, don't copy (Score:1)
Call me crazy but it seems to me that over the past few years (OK, a decade or two) innovation (not used in the Microsoft abuse of the word) has taken a back seat in favor of stagnation. Golly gee wow, someone else has manufactured tEh "iPod killer." Wow. What's this, the fifth or sixth MP3 player that is supposed to tank Apple's market share? No thanks, I'll pass.
How about this, instead of trying to garner market share by imitation, do something original.
I guess the polar opposite can be just as b
Zune? More like ZZzzune. (Score:2)
WiFi? Cool! Err wait. I've seen this before, sort of. On my cell phone. Click this link to download $HOT_RINGTONE. Ok, now click this link and you'll start downloading it for real. Ha ha! One more link, I promise. Sucker! 2 more, no joke. And another link
Zune will kill iPod (Score:1, Funny)
ZuneYourCar is something which some ofthe insiders are working on
Mr. Ballmer, is that you? (Score:2)
Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
- There is no iPod killer
- Even if there were, Zune isn't it
The iPod has what Google has - an excellent product with widespread brand recognition. Unless something else comes out that is significantly better (and, let's be honest, all of the competition to date has been lacking in the features that most users care about), the iPod will be king.
Zune, iPod or Ogg (Score:2)
Don't like iPods? Though I can't really see any real reason, it's possible.
Want Ogg support? Samsung seems to have Ogg support in nearly all of their players.
Re:Zune, iPod or ... (Score:2)
Don't you know that iTunes is a FREE ripper/jukebox/player that can be used without the music store, without an iPod and also supports MP3, including for ripping?
There no DRM unless you buy from the iTMS (which is iTunes Music Store, not iTunes itself). The iPod also supports MP3 too, in case you didn't know.
So, even with your "no DRM, MP3-only" requirements, you could still use iTunes becaus
Re:ITunes (Score:2)
iTunes by itself is a program, just like Firefox is a browser. The music store is server(s) at Apple.
I don't know DeliPlayer nor WinMediaPlayer, but you could still give iTunes a go. It rips, catalog, tags and plays music for you. You can even drag'n drop the music from the library onto an external drive (i.e. mp3 player if it maps as a drive) without having to care where the files
too late (Score:1)
Ballmer's take on it (Score:2, Interesting)
I interned at Microsoft this summer (horror of horrors!) and attended an event where Ballmer spoke to all of the interns and recent college hires. There was a Q&A session at the end, and someone asked him about the Zune. He said that at the beginning of this year Microsoft decided that they wanted to enter the music player market. They've been quickly working to pull together a product that they can get out the door before Christmas to start a "customer feedback loop".
He all but said that he knew that
Re:Ballmer's take on it (Score:2)
as in past tense? what they expected from a product that they've already purchased? makes me want to run out and buy one!
Re:Ballmer's take on it (Score:2)
PocketPC got killed by Symbian and smartphones. If that's their idea os "success", I wonder what do they call a failure?
I want the third option (Score:2)
I find Microsoft to be repulsive.
So, no need for an iPlod killer here, I've already got my sight set on better options (http://gp2x.com/product/product.asp [gp2x.com] comes to mind).
Re:I want the third option (Score:2)
Re:I want the third option (Score:2)
On the other hand, I do have fine storage on my watch so I doubled up there and listen to the mp3s through it all the time.
Re:I want the third option (Score:2)
The ability to carry inexpensive spare batteries and install software from a vast selection combines well with less restrictive codecs.
Re:I want the third option (Score:2)
Hmmm, the last time I heard, Apple iPods play MP3s natively. With no conversion required. Maybe you're thinking of Sony's ATRAC players? Or maybe you were trying to play the "Ogg" card?
(The main reason I don't own an iPod is that I simply don't travel enough. For my monthly business trips, I simply use MP3 CDs in the car's dash player. Or I listen to music off of my laptop while working. And I have portable MP3 players that ta
Apple users think so.... (Score:2)
It's just a Pocket PC with a hard drive? (Score:2)
Zune is nothing but a Pocket PC with a hard drive.
I've owned four Pocket PCs over the last 6 years. They've all had MP3 playing support. Most had Wifi support. But they aren't terribly good as MP3 players... the OS is too heavy and complex for a handheld, it very much needs to be treated as a desktop OS stripped down, not something built from the ground up to run an embedded application. It even runs programs by copying them from "file system" RAM to "program" RAM. Very stran
Has a shot (Score:2)
That said, why you waste screen space with WinCE chrome is beyond me.
MP3 market is over (Score:2)
Until studios start selling MP3's of major songs there is no MP3 player market, not to most poeple buying players. Microsoft's attempt at an end-run around that by offering you copied of all your ITMS songs in the new Microsoft format is interesting but I think too kludgey for the average consumer.
I subscribe to eMusic and like it a lot
Price point $299? (Score:2)
Tough sell?
Three week old article makes slashdot? (Score:2)
It will flop (Score:2)
Holy Horror! (Score:2)
Name (Score:2)
While ipod sounding kind of odd, it also kind of sounded hip when i first heard it years ago. Zune just sounds ridiculous. I can't even imagine saying, imma play this on my zune.
Re:Name (Score:2, Funny)
Marketing Meeting at Microsoft HQ (Score:1)
Meh, let's go with it anyway.
Re:More competition! More features! More better! (Score:2)
How can they be better players if the interface and sync software aren't up to snuff? In the consumer electronics space, the interface really is the product, isn't it?
If you compare two products, and the inferior one has the superior interface, doesn't that mean it is easier to u
Re:More competition! More features! More better! (Score:2)
But they are winning b
Re:More competition! More features! More better! (Score:1)
I actually have an old ipod someone gave to me. I don't like it that much and have so far compiled a list 27 additions that I think would make me love it (withing removing anything already present in the ipod that people love). I don't see 'any' of my ideas in the zune and I'm sure it's missing some of the good things about the ipod.
But most of all, I want an MP3/OGG/lots-of-other-formats