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Don't Count Sony Out Yet 172

Posted by Zonk from the he's-a-fighter dept.
Eurogamer is hosting a GamesIndustry.biz article, an editorial that wants readers to make sure not to write Sony off yet. From the article: "Even if Sony is failing to endear itself to the media, to analysts or to gamers at the moment, that's no reason for the reality of the next generation console battle to be ignored. Judging from reports in the past fortnight, it would be easy for an outside observer to assume that it's all over already; the media paints a picture of Microsoft being victorious before the first shot is even fired, with Sony's overloaded battlecruiser set to sink before it even leaves port."
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Don't Count Sony Out Yet More

Don't Count Sony Out Yet

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  • Thanks, but... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Spazntwich ( 208070 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @04:38PM (#15849071)
    I'll write them off anyway.

    I have no interest in a $600 console and $70 games.
    • how sure are ya? people pay monthly fees. then, 50 or 70 bucks for the initial investment is not a big difference..

      • Re:Thanks, but... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Spazntwich ( 208070 )
        I guess to more accurately state my intentions, I'd have to say I won't INITIALLY be buying one.

        Once the PS2 gets down to the $200-300 price point I'll consider it, but to drop $70 on one game means it better be one hell of a good game.

        As I've grown older, my interest in videogames has waned anyway, and I think Nintendo's approach of pick-up games will work better anyway, which is another reason I'm writing Sony off: The people who can afford it aren't the target audience, and the target audience will have
        • The N64 had plenty of 70-dollar games. And this was Nintendo - HA - slag off on THAT!

          I think the 500-dollar config is fine, and once it drops to 350-400, we'll see the usual demand past the bleeding edge weenies (like me) go for it.

          The thing that struck me odd was how long the PS2 stayed above 250. I mean we were talking YEARS compared to the quarterly price drops everyone else had for the previous decade.
          • And the N64 was, for the most part, a dismal failure. Nintendo learned from their mistake. Sony does not pay attention to history, they are blinded by their success with the PS2.

            I love my PS2, but I'm tired of Sony's arrogance. I don't need them to force another new format on me, I'll get blueray or HDDVD when I'm ready. I don't want ATRAC or BETA. I don't want their overpriced memory sticks. I don't want "Magicgate" technology included in the cost of my devices so they can lock other companies from selling
            • I also recall that the PS2 had many "kitchen sink" features that were phased out including Firewire support, the hard-drive bay and the disktray. I predict that over the lifespan of the product we'll see the unpopular features phased out - except for Blue-Ray of course.
            • The ps3 doesnt use memory cards. As a matter of fact they just announced a device you can use to convert your old memory cards to work on the PS3's harddrive if you don't want to lose your progress on ps2 games.

              No one is forcing a new format on you. If you dont want to buy any blu-ray movies... then don't. If you're complaining about the price, wait a year or two and the prices will drop. By then you might be caught up to date with your stack of games to play.

              The $500 model PS3 doesn't have a memory card re
    • I have no interest in a $600 console and $70 games.

      While still expensive, you can get a base PS3 for $500 that can do everything the $600 model would do as far as games or movies go - don't believe the HDMI hype. That's only $100 more than the 360 with hard drive.

      I agree $70 games are starting to get a little rediculous, just wait to buy the console then until the greatest hits releases start coming out much cheaper.
  • Nothing is over until Nintendo sings a wheeee!

  • Too much for a console. (Score:3, Funny)

    by GigG ( 887839 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @04:40PM (#15849078)
    Why should I spend $500-$600 on a console when I already spent $3000+ on an Alienware?

    • Re:Too much for a console. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Doytch ( 950946 ) <markpd@gmailFORTRAN.com minus language> on Friday August 04, 2006 @04:44PM (#15849098)
      Where to start... 1) Probably the most obvious, 4D 2) You can use your PSP as a rear view mirror in racing games 3) Innovation such as real-time weapon switching 4) The ability to flip over this crab and stab it in it's weak spot for MASSIVE damage 5) The ability to swing your controller around like someone with cerebral palsy while playing an average flying game 6) Crappy Yu-Gi-Oh games 7) Being on the cusp of innovation with Blu-Ray Honestly, I could go on and on...
    • I would actually venture a guess that the type of person who spends $3000+ on an Alienware is significantly MORE likely to buy the PS3. That kind of disposable income coupled with a strong desire for top-end/latest greatest.

      The PS3 is trying to be a cutting edge entertainment system. The question is, will the BluRay player (err HD, whichever it uses) make enough value for consumers to buy it? If you are already in the market for a $300 HD/BluRay player AND a $300 console, then the PS3 makes sence. If you ar

      • If you are already in the market for a $300 HD/BluRay player AND a $300 console, then the PS3 makes sence.

        That's not the target market, though. BD players are in the $1000 range (HD-DVD players are a bit cheaper, but still in the $500-1000 range). The type of person who's going to buy a $1000 BluRay player is not the type of person who will compromise with an integrated unit, because integrated units generally suck (the PS2 was a horrible DVD player, for example). What Sony is really hoping for is th

        • "The PS3 could still pull off being a kickass game machine even if BluRay tanks as a video format"

          But how many people will spring for a $600 game console? If BR tanks, Sony would be better off re-tooling for a cheap CD/DVD player and dropping the price. $400 for a top end console makes a lot more sence then $600 for a top end console with a worthless feature.

          -Rick
      • Simply put,

        The $200-$300 console market is much larger than (the $600 market + the $300BluRay AND $300console) market.

        Sony is going to take a hit this round - still not out, they can always catch up in 5 years with the next round...
    • Another question... why should you spend $3000+ on Alienware?

      I could have spent:
      $599 on a dual core Mac mini with Windows in virtualization and BootCamp for all my PC, Linux, and Mac needs
      $599 on a Playstation 3 for my MGS4 needs
      $129 on a Nintendo DS for my Tetris DS needs
      $249 on a PSP for my Lumines needs

      For only $1,580... plus tax.
    • Because you evidently have a thing for overspending on unnecessary yet overpriced things? :)
    • Metal Gear Solid 4.
      • I've thought about that, too. But I have to ask you and anyone else. Is the momentary satisfaction really worth wasting $700 on? Even if there will be other games, is the 20-50 hours of distraction really worth it? Not to mention the cost of a TV that can display it properly? Though it's very possible that you already have that.

        I've been gaming since the Commadore 64 my parents bought when I was young, but never have I considered paying more than $200 for a console. And I lose interest in gaming every

    • Why should I spend $500-$600 on a console when I already spent $3000+ on an Alienware?

      Because your $3,000 Alienware doesn't have many games that take full advantage of its video card's TV output or your HDTV's DVI/HDMI input. Name a few Windows native titles that allow the user to plug four gamepads into a hub and play on the same view. I know a lot of you are thinking that you bought into PC to get away from split-screen, but console titles like Smash Bros., Bomberman, Gauntlet, Secret of Mana, Rampart,

  • Sony who? Already sold my shares (Score:4, Insightful)

    by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @04:42PM (#15849091) Homepage Journal
    and bought a PS2 cheap to last until the Wii comes out this fall.

    Face it, day late and a dollar short, even if Sony suddenly "decided" to sell PS3 at $299, they've already lost mind share and many game developers have already added Wii support (not originally planned) and are shorting the number of game units they're planning to ship for PS3, according to the news reports in the print edition of the Wall Street Journal ...

  • Wah? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    " the media paints a picture of Microsoft being victorious before the first shot is even fired"

    Uh, and where exactly are these media stating anything of the sort?

    Can't be talking about Japan...
    Can't be talking about Europe...
    Can't be talking about the trashing MS took over botched backwards compatibility...
    Can't be talking about the insane numbers of defected consoles that the media has been reporting...
    Can't be talking about the lower than first Xbox sales the media has been reporting...
    Can't be talking ab

  • Not endeared to ANYBODY (Score:5, Informative)

    by sehlat ( 180760 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @04:46PM (#15849111)
    After the infamous ROOTKIT incident, I'm not interested in giving Sony a dime ever again.
    • After the infamous ROOTKIT incident, I'm not interested in giving Sony a dime ever again.

      Come on, what's a few Ring 0 takeovers of your system between frenemies?

      Besides, the new PS3 includes Blu-Ray DRM as an extra bonus feature, and the controller takes over your toaster and makes it sing ditties about Sony movies! And then it makes the coffee pot ask if you'd like to replace Hot Java with Sony Java!

    • Re:Not endeared to ANYBODY (Score:5, Insightful)

      by |/|/||| ( 179020 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @05:57PM (#15849455)
      Hmm, this is currently modded flamebait, which strikes me as unfair. Is it not sensible to boycott a company that engages (or at least has recently engaged) in shady business practices?

      Take me, for example. I own several Sony products, including a PS2, an NTSC monitor, and a receiver. Will I ever buy another product from them? Not in the foreseeable future. I've been shopping around for digital cameras and camcorders for the last few days, and I've been skipping right over the Sony models. They probably have exactly what I'm looking for, and in the right price range too, but that big SONY on the side of it might as well say 'Made by slave labor'. I'm not even going to give their offerings any consideration.

      In other words, I don't like their business practices, so I won't give them my money. Not only is that not flamebait, it's completely pertinent to the topic! I was planning to buy a PS3 this generation, but not now. The high price that they've announced isn't even the deciding factor, since I was going to wait a couple of years for it to come down - the real reason is the rootkit, pure and simple.

      • I agree entirely. Had my mod points not expired no less than 10 minutes ago I would've fixed that too.

        I too refuse to do business with Sony becuase of their business practices. I've even taken to selling any Sony goods I have so (a) there will be less of a market for new ones (b) I never have to see that offensive brand name in my house again.
      • It should be moderated flamebait along with anybody who calls it a 'rootkit'. We should have seen it coming, back when the first stories were posted saying the software used rootkit technology to hide itself from the user that it would be called a rootkit from then on, but it's not a rootkit. Rootkits are very specific things that exist to give a remote entity root access to your machine. This was spyware, pure and simple.

        Yes, I'm being pedantic, but it's important. You are using a pseudonym: '|/|/|||'. Ter
        • Hmm. I didn't study the Sony software in detail, but if I remember correctly it ran hidden in the background and prevented you from ripping Sony CD's. I wouldn't call that alone "spyware", but maybe it was also phoning home to report the user's actions. If so, then yes, it was spyware.

          That aside, what would you call a rootkit that was modified to run independently, without requiring input from a "remote entity"? It's similar to a trojan, but the defining characteristic of a trojan is that it sneaks in b

    • I'd give them a bit of credit, their headphones are good. But at this point I'd never trust anything from Sony that isn't entirely built from discrete components.
      • Their earphones are "not too crappy" at best, you can get much better 'phones from others (AKG or Sennheiser for example, and maybe Koss if you don't care about sound quality but want a lot of bass)
    • After the infamous ROOTKIT incident, I'm not interested in giving Sony a dime ever again.

      I'm curious, have you ever given a dime again to Ubisoft, Codemasters, or anyone that's ever used StarForce?
    • To be fair, SCE and sonys music division are like 2 different companies.
  • It's true that we won't actually know for certain the winner of this generation's console war until a year and a half from now. Of coures, that isn't going to stop anyone from speculating!

  • 3-way tie (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ProppaT ( 557551 )
    I honestly see this generation war being a 3 way tie amongst the comeptitors. Nintendo offers something different, MS offers a strong online gameplay, and Sony offers the uberhaus of game power. Where as the last gen was really pick or choose (i.e., nothing really differentiated the systems except for the lincenses on each system), this generation will see much more of a differentiation of the type of games for each system. Old Skool gamers will probably lean towards Nintendo, PC and online gamers toward
    • Microsoft? Worldwide, they didn't sell any more units than Nintendo's supposedly "failed" GameCube.

      Now, if I just wanted sports games and FPS, I'd be totally agreeing with you, but MSFT isn't even in the running right now, and Sony's just trying to see if it can be profitable in the second pole position.
    • Granted Microsoft's online offering is really nice.

      But Sony is also going online in a big way this time - including free match play that Live costs $50 a year for (today).

      So really, part of Sony's success depends on how well the online component works.
      • But Sony is also going online in a big way this time - including free match play that Live costs $50 a year for (today).

        'course, the irony here is that the people who'll be willing to drop the dough for a PS3 would presumably be perfectly happy paying for an online service.
        • 'course, the irony here is that the people who'll be willing to drop the dough for a PS3 would presumably be perfectly happy paying for an online service.

          Why would you say that? I canceled cable TV and have a pay as you go cell phone plan because I don't like recurring costs. It makes a lot more sense to me to pay $500 + $0 for something I will use for five years (or more) than it does to pay $400 + $50 a year for five years.

          • That argument might make good sense, if Sony's online service is similar to Microsoft's.

            I'm just concerned that "free online gameplay" will be closer to the free XLink Kai [teamxlink.co.uk] for Xbox, than to Xbox Live - i.e. a basic list of player-hosted servers to connect to, then you're on your own.

            • I think Sony has probably seen the potential revenue stream of selling smaller games online and in-game contentas well - which is why Sony's service is free, as they wish to get more people involved and subsidise the costs in other ways. So I'm thinking it will be more like Live than not.

              You're right though that the fundamental correctness of my argumnet lies on a service we know nothing about - I admit deducing features by what would bring maximal proit to Sony and fit with what they are doing and have sa
    • It seems unlikely.

      Microsoft seems to have forgotten how to market a product in a space where they have no monopoly to leverage. They took an excelent product (the 360) and completely blew a year lead through terrible marketing and third party relations. They're not even outselling the competition's previous generation products. The best they can do for the system thus far is release classic video games from their competitors' platforms. Microsoft has two modes, run-away success, and utter failure. They're a
  • Last I recall, the gaming business is HUGE.. and growing still.

    Who says if Microsoft makes a bundle of money that there won't still be a bundle for Sony and Nintendo left over? I mean, I think all of the companies can turn a profit in this industry.

    And besides, the PS3 is far from just a gaming console. The Blu Ray player capability is what some might call Sony's 'stratz 4 teh win'. I have never owned a Playstation or an Xbox (I play PC games) but even I am thinking about getting a PS3 now. Though I dou
    • One should point out that this was in Euro Gamer, so perhaps they are predicting that Sony will do relatively well in Western Europe, at least holding it's own with Nintendo. As we know, the xBox360 has done better in the EU than in Japan, so perhaps for their own particular market segment this might be true, even if worldwide we're looking at Nintendo domination with Sony a second in Japan and worldwide, while xBox360 will fill the second spot in the US.

      But, since we know that most Sony business plans wer

  • To be fair... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by vertinox ( 846076 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @04:54PM (#15849158)
    Metal Gear Solid just looks freakin awesome on the PS3 that it almost made me cry when I saw the demo videos.

    That said... The PS3 price tag actually made me cry along with baby Jesus.

    I think my DS can hold me out for a few more years.
    • Metal Gear Solid just looks freakin awesome on the PS3 that it almost made me cry when I saw the demo videos.
      Wouldn't worry to much about Metal Gear Solid, if PS3 tanks we will see ports of it to other consoles very quickly and even if it doesn't, ports to other consoles are still quite likly. MetalGear2 already has an XBox version and MetalGear1 a Gamecube one, so MetalGear4 on XBox360 or Wii isn't that far of a stretch.
  • A POSTIVE article from Slashdot about Sony?

    Must be a beer bash at the slashdot offices or something.

    I thought I was on Digg for a minute there...

  • You guys have it so cheap its not funny. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bunbuntheminilop ( 935594 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @05:07PM (#15849218)
    In Australia/New Zealand, we regularly pay $100-120 for games, and the Xbox360 is around $700 ffs. I WISH I could pay $600 for a console. That would be a dream! Instead, I paid nearly $1000 for my ps2 on the first day, and that didn't include the extra controller/games/memory card etc.

    You guys have it so cheap its not funny.

  • lol (Score:5, Funny)

    by spykemail ( 983593 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @05:08PM (#15849225) Homepage
    You can't really lose to Microsft per se, you just sort of run out of money.

  • There's going to be a winner in the console wars? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    That's funny. It seems to me that I've been hearing this same song since Atari vs. Intellivision. There will be no clear victor and until technology changes seriously. There will always be 3-4 viable consoles on the market with real support from game makers.

    And let's not get hung up on the "slashdot effect" in the real world. No amount of DRM, rootkits or media blubbering is going to stop Joe Sixpack Jr from wanting the latest gaming box. I know that a handful of naysayers on here think that they ha
  • If IBM is able to sell MB & processor kits for the CELL platform I won't buy a PS3. Unless someone here on /. knows of a devel kit for under $600 I'll still be waiting. I prefer my games to be on my PC.
    • If Sony allows you to run Linux on PS3, then it becomes the Cell dev kit. Anything other than PS3 will not be sold at a loss and thus will cost more.

  • PS3 better drop in price quick! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Brian_Ellenberger ( 308720 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @05:28PM (#15849333)
    First, let me start with saying I owned a PS1 and a PS2. I was waiting till I heard the price of the PS3 to decide whether to get an XBox360 or wait. When I heard $500-$600 just for the console I got a 360. Why? Because despite a great job, I have a family to support and could not justify spending that much just for the console. It doesn't matter how much better it is, or how many features it has. Just plain couldn't afford it. I think that probably describes a large number of people who aren't "single no kids"---whether they are buying it for themselves or their kids. The only response I have heard to that question is, "DUDE, YOU LOZER IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD ONE YOU SUCK TOO BAD YOU DON'T DESERVE ONE.". To which I shrug, and say fine. Wii looks pretty cool and I may pick one up with the kids are a little older. And if Sony wins the console wars, and lowers the price, I may trade in the 360 for a PS3. I'm not a fanboy. But right now, it just looks like it is out of the price reach for many people.

    • When I heard $500-$600 just for the console I got a 360. Why? Because despite a great job, I have a family to support and could not justify spending that much just for the console. It doesn't matter how much better it is, or how many features it has. Just plain couldn't afford it.

      I'm sorry, but that line of reasoning does not any sense to me. If you can afford an Xbox 360 now, I assume you could have saved up the additional money to purchase a PS3 when it becomes available later this year.

      It's not as if t

      • Yeah, he could have saved his money up. But his point was that no console is worth $500+. Duh.
        • Yeah, he could have saved his money up. But his point was that no console is worth $500+. Duh.

          Thanks for the flame and all, but you might actually want to go back and actualy read the GPP again...

          He says that he bought a 360 because the PS3 is too expensive. He did not offer an opinion on whether any console was worth that much money.

  • Like it's really an either-or proposition. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Politas ( 1535 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @05:47PM (#15849421) Homepage Journal
    I know of many gamers who own a high-spec PC, a PS2, an Xbox, etc, etc.

    The PS3 is sure to make plenty of cash, and a lot of it will come from people who already own an Xbox360 and a Wii. Hardcore gamers don't care about money.

  • Sony's history (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 04, 2006 @05:59PM (#15849467)
    Sony pulled the CLIE from the US market, despite the fact they where making a profit, just because they had no hope of dominating the PDA market in the US.

    Sony Connect music store remains poorly implimented and under marketed.

    Sony demostrated no loyality to it's Playstation 2 consumers resulting in a class action lawsuit [ps2settlement.com].

    Sony demostrated no loyality to being able to install a hard drive in future iterations of the Playstation 2. If a consumer's PS2 breaks down and they get the latest version of the PS2 then Final Fantasy XI unusable and ensuring that companies would not port other classically computer style games to the PS2.

    Sony demostrated no loyality to it's audio CD consumers resulting in a class action lawsuit [eff.org].

    Current reviews of HD-DVD's than Blu-Ray disks indicate that HD-DVD is preferable [slashdot.org].

    There is currently more HD-DVD titles available than Blu-Ray.

    Sony's first priority for the design of Blu-Ray seems to be the triple copy-protection instead of any consumer friendly priorities.

    If you don't learn from history then you are doomed to suffer when Sony again pulls an anti-consumer move.

    Nintendo and Microsoft seem more interested in this latest round of consoles of delivering features to the consumer than pulling a fast one over on them and then excusing themselves from responsiblity.
    • Sony demostrated no loyality to it's Playstation 2 consumers resulting in a class action lawsuit.

      This is different from nintendo denying there being a problem with the DS lite cracking and it affects .02%? Which they actually DO not officially offer to repair for free; the "press release" was faked by DS fans http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/10036/ [gwn.com] [to their credit they have offered to fix many, but not all cracked DS's] Or how about MS initially saying that there were no problems with the xbox360
  • Than I suppose that makes Nintendo the submarine lurking below the waves, with no one quite knowing where it is or what it will ultimately do. Sure, it has a compliment of torpedo's, but will they be enough to sink either opponent?

    END COMMUNICATION
  • I thought the Nintendo Wii was teh predicted winner? From everything ive read its cheaper, has better games, and a more creative/exciting user interface(the controller). Im thinking of getting one it comes out and ive been a PC only gamer for years.
    • I agree. From TFA:
      the media paints a picture of Microsoft being victorious before the first shot is even fired
      Huh?!

      I don't get these people. Why do they always ignore Nintendo? As far as I can tell it's Nintendo which has been predicted the winner, not Microsoft.

  • "Even if Sony is failing to endear itself to the media, to analysts or to gamers at the moment, that's no reason for the reality of the next generation console battle to be ignored."

    I can understand leaving out media and analysts, but if not the gamers, just who exactly does the PS3 need to endear itself to?

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