The Semantics of Free Software vs. Open Source 515
An anonymous reader writes "As the end-of-year technology round-ups begin, LinuxWorld's Kevin Bedell notes that in his opinion no useful distinction is served any longer by preserving the two separate terms 'open source software' and 'free software'. One interesting sidelight: Bedell says that 'one of the leaders of the open source movement' wrote to him in an exchange they had on this topic: 'The distinction between 'open source' and 'free software' is not technical; it's the same code and licenses. Nor is it social; it's the same developers. It's strictly one of attitude - are we focused on moralism and changing peoples' thoughts (free software) or on results and changing peoples' behavior (open source)?'"
Free? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Free? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Free? (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong. (Score:3, Informative)
No. What you've just described is called "public domain software". "Free Software" is copyrighted software which you can use in certain ways under the condition of certain obligations as specified by the Free Software Foundation. Certain core differences in the usages and obligations exist between "Open Source" software and "Free Software", so I don't understand the claim that the distinction is non-technical.
Re:Free? (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually "Free Software" is not that.
The FSF Foundation defined "Free Software" to be software that grants the following four freedoms (quoted from gnu.org):
* The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
* The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
* The freedom to redistribute copies so you c
Re:Free? (Score:4, Informative)
There's a simple explanation for this apparent contradiction: By allowing this freedom would allow you to negate the other freedoms.
It's an example of why absolute freedom doesn't and can't exist within a society. Freedom to do absolutely whatever you want endangers the freedom of others. Absolute freedom is anti-social. There have to be limits to what you can and cannot do in order for everybody to coexist. That's why the debate , even amongst libertarians, is over what limits on freedom are reasonable.
The absence of your stated freedom is required to make the system work. Otherwise, you'd end up with freeloaders who take the work of others, add something to it, close it, and profit off of that work that was given freely. By requiring you to give back when you take you insure that the system continues and functions for all.
Re:Free? (Score:3, Interesting)
And the GPL followers would argue that the BSD license doesn't help protect anyone's freedoms, and is thus in fact equivalent to public domain - so why bother with the license at all ?
Re:Free? (Score:3, Informative)
Why don't you just say shame on the early speakers of the English language for not having the the foresight to divide the different things that free can be applied to?
Why don't you complain that it is sad that we have no separate words for things like "free of worries" or "free of charge" or "free of noise" or any other things that come under the umbrella of the concept of free?
The fact is: The FSF came up with the ONLY English word for what they are talking about. That word is free. The consequ
Re:Free? (Score:4, Insightful)
In my mind that sounds compleatly resonable, but I doubt it will ever happen.
Re:Free? (Score:2)
Re:Free? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Free? (Score:2, Insightful)
This ambiguity in the word "Free" is mearly an artifact of the industry backed Open Source Initiative [slashdot.org]'s efforts to water down the pre-existing traditional definition of Free Software [gnu.org]
Re:Free? (Score:2)
Re:Free? (Score:3, Insightful)
Legacy language
Call it French Software (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Free? (Score:3, Funny)
Is this what we call software after we bomb the living crap out of it?
Re:Free? (Score:5, Insightful)
I do understand that technical people like to be precise in their speech. The problem is using the right level of precision when talking to people who care a lot less.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. (Score:3, Insightful)
We will undoubtedly come across someone who disagrees or finds it uncomfortable to hear freedom talk or talk of equality between men's and women's social circumstances. But we should continue to insist upon what we want. I want software freedom, including the right to make private undistributed derivatives, so I'm sure to ask for free software by name. Open source would not give me the same rights.
Social progress depends on persistent demands. As Frederick Douglass wrote:
Re:Free? (Score:2)
Re:Free? (Score:2)
GPL on the other hand requires that you distribute the source of the binary if requested by the customer along with notification of how they can get the source. Traditionally the source is on the web, but there is no requirement to do such. This is considered "Free Software" because no one
Re:Free? (Score:2)
Re:Free? (Score:2)
This is the distinct definition of "free software".
Likewise, "open source" does not naturally conclude to the correct meaning either, and thus where the confusion comes in.
But to answer the quote in the article. Are we trying to push morality on the issue? *YES* that's *exactly* what were trying to do.
Jesus Christ, let's end this now. (Score:3, Insightful)
I've seen this whole "free as in freedom" explained so many times it makes me sick. A good name for the movement would imply this, and not require folks to explain it over and over, while leaving others walking away with the wrong impression ('how do you make money off FREE software?').
Why don't we call it 'communal software' or something, and put a stop to the endless re-hashing of these "GPL Fo
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
BSD vs. GNU again (Score:5, Informative)
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2)
You are correct that the GPL and BSD licenses are very different. How they differ is not a factor, however, for the 99.99% of the users who will use this software without ever modifying or redistributing the source code.
The GPL is in some ways a vestige of a time when computer users were largely computer programmers. Now, most people will never even look at a line a code. For them both Open Source
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2)
If a user downloads a piece of 'free' software (Apache license for example) which happens to be able to use MySql, then downloads MySql, they are *not* able to use this under the GPL - they must pay 300 euros for mysql - see the Mysql Licensing FAQ for more on this.
This aspect of the GPL is quite scary, TBH, because it means it's very hard to use GPL software with anything.
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2)
"If you include the MySQL server with an application that is not licensed under the GPL or GPL-compatible license, you need a commercial license for the MySQL server."
ie. if you distribute a GPL app *on the same CD* as a non-gpl one you break the license.
"If you develop and distribute a commercial application and as part of utilizing your application, the end-user must download a copy of MySQL; for each derivative work, you (or, in some cases, your end-user) n
Good Thought, Bad Example (Score:5, Insightful)
Both the BSD licenses and the GPL are free and open source licenses. That even includes the old BSD license with the advertising clause that was incompatible with the GPL.
But your thought is a good one (and correct) even if your example is flawed. A better example would be Apple's AAPL, which is an open source license that is neither free nor compatible with the GPL.
See http://www.fsf.org/licenses/license-list.html [fsf.org]for an excellent overview of licenses and how they affect your freedom and/or protect you as the author.
Many Open Source licenses are not free (by either the FSF/GNU definition or the BSD Folks' definition), and clearly a distinction is both necessary and important. Anyone claiming otherwise quite obviously has an ulterior motive and agenda which they feel is furthered by obfuscating what is implied by a Free License and what is implied by an Open Source License, and that agenda certainly appears to be at odds with the free software community and a large part of the open source community.
Re:Good Thought, Bad Example (Score:3, Informative)
I appreciate the point you're trying to make, but FYI, the APSL (AAPL is Apple's ticker symbol) was revised, and is now considered to be a free (but GPL-incompatible) open-source license.
From your link [fsf.org]:
Apple Public Source License (APSL), version 2
This is a free software license, incompatible with the GNU GPL. We recommend that you not use this license for new software that you
Competition is GOOD! (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway... competition is good for
Competition is just as good for free/open source software.
Remember the previous thread on the new GPL, where people were speculating if when Stallman, Moeglin, Lessig, etc retire from the
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm glad we have both the GPL and BSD licenses, but in my opinion GPL is "more free" because it ensures that code contributions remain open source. With either license, a company/individual may use open source code for their own gains. (and there's nothing wrong with that)
However, the GPL simply ensures that any modifications to open source code are themselves available as open source. The BSD license allows propriatary forks of open source code, which may be good from a corporate standpoint, but may be c
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2)
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2)
Even if a company makes a proprietary derivative work, they are very likely to contribute back to the Open Source code base. Maintaining a fork indefinately is expensive. It is much better to maintain the derivative work as a limited set of additions/revisions to the publicly available base work.
However the users of the proprietary work expect support. So
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:3, Interesting)
The interesting case is when a developer at a company would like to include some bit of functionality that's encapsulated in a GPL'ed library. No profit-making company these days will allow GPL'ed libraries to be included in their proprietary software, even though there is a way to do this via the LGPL.
What I would like to see is a modified LGPL that would allow c
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2)
These restrictions are to ensure that the code remains free, true, but they are restrictions. You can do strictly less with GPL
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2)
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2)
Re:BSD vs. GNU again (Score:2)
Depends on who you are trying to convince (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Depends on who you are trying to convince (Score:3, Insightful)
So, for both average users and businesses, the term 'open so
Re:Depends on who you are trying to convince (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a good part of the theory behind the creation of the open source movement. However, the businesses I've talked to are very interested in making private derivatives of free software--taking advantage of a freedom which the open source movement doesn't care about (in fact this was one of the FSF's initial objections to the early versions of the Apple Public Source License [gnu.org]; one had to notify one central authority which, as they say, happened to be Apple, in a lot of situations one would commonly encoun
Re:Depends on who you are trying to convince (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Depends on who you are trying to convince (Score:3, Interesting)
The main problem I see is neither wether you call it "Open Source" or Software Livre. Its neither that they inconsiously accept Microsoft's "Shared Source" as being "Open Source". And its neither wether it has support or not. The community's support together with a knowledgeable and non-lazy worker
Liberated Software (Score:4, Funny)
Liberated suggests non-freedom early on. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Liberated Software (Score:2)
Premise is wrong (Score:4, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
Both of these are actually incorrect. GPLed software can be distributed for a price--even an absurdly high price (look at what the FSF used to charge for tapes of emacs...), but any distribution must include full source code and
Distinction misplaced (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference is in the motivations:
Free Software is motivated by the moral need to create a Free Way to use computers -- to free software users from their "masters".
Open Source software is motivated by the practical advantages of the Open Source development process.
The Free Software movement is more idealist: "Don't use it if its not free, whether or not there are practical advantages".
The Open Source movement is more pragmatic, even at the cost of some Freedom: "Use whatever is better technically for your purpose, even if its not free".
"Free" vs. "free" (Score:2, Informative)
Notice the capitalization. Open Source does not necessarily create Free Software, even though the software may be free and Free Software is also by definition Open Source (the source is open). In neither case are the real proponents of the two movements concerned about price. RMS himself has even said you can charge for distribution of your software. So, when you say "free", mentally translate that to "Free"*, and you'll have things about right.
Your take on the Open Source movement is also not quite ri
Re:Distinction misplaced (Score:5, Insightful)
Free Software is motivated by the moral need to create a Free Way to use computers -- to free software users from their "masters".
Open Source software is motivated by the practical advantages of the Open Source development process.
;-) So long as each movement encapsulates something different, they'll be relevant. And I don't see that going away unless everyone ceases to care about freedom, community and property laws, or businesses and programmers find the radical implications and approach of Free Software palatable.
Well, yes. But one can go further to point out that Open Source is simply a development methodology. If you distill Open Source according to the Open Source Institute and Eric Raymond down you get nothing really questioning the way we think of property, community and the place of information in society. If proprietary methodologies happened to create better software, Open Source advocates couldn't really complain. Free Software, by contrast, is the same development methodology as well as a radical (and thus far ill defined) philosophy with political, economic and social implications.
The point the author of the parent article misses is that to people outside the relatively small circle of programmers and tech managers, development methodologies are uninteresting and unimportant. To governments, NGOs and academics, Free Software is very interesting. To everyone else, both are dull
Re:Distinction misplaced (Score:4, Insightful)
Ridiculous (Score:2, Insightful)
Although all open source software is free by its very nature, it's ridiculous to try to make the reverse analogy that free software is also by default open source. There are a number of quality programs out there for which the source code is not freely available but the program itself is free of cost and in many cases limitations.
Web sites have been posted and we are all aware of man
Re:Ridiculous (Score:2)
By "early Shareware" you really should be referring to PC-Talk, PC-Write, etc., which is when the term "shareware" was coined. And at that time, there was very clearly a difference, and an intentional one, between "shareware" and "freeware". The former was closed-source, freely distributed but you were expected to pay if you used it (mostly enforced by the honor system); the latter was also usually closed-sou
Re:Ridiculous (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know if you are intentionally misunderstanding, but this is precisely incorrect. Free Software (with a capital F) has the 4 Freedoms set forth by the FSF, who created the term.
That means Free Software is always Open Source, butthe reverse is not always true.
Whoever modded the parent as insightful made an error.
Re:Ridiculous (Score:2, Insightful)
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch, Heinlein.
The distinction is real and important (Score:4, Interesting)
discussed the subject of software licensing
with an intellectual property attorney.
The intellectual property attorney told me
that it is only a matter of time until people
begin to assert the right to royalties for
code contributed to free software projects
that generates any income for anybody.
What Stallman wants is to forestall the
inevitable for as long as possible, and he is
impatient with people who knowingly or
otherwise pave the middleground between free
and commercial under the banner of Open Source,
creating a nice broad avenue for the lawyers
to drive their jags down.
Re:MOD UP (Score:2)
Worth Discussion (Score:2, Insightful)
Free as in Freedom/Libre, not as in beer/no cost (Score:2, Insightful)
At least in English-speaking countries.
I'm sure we won't settle it here..... (Score:5, Funny)
That said, I think should be enough....
new term (Score:2)
Free Software: IE, Media player, linux, BSD, C# etc..
(software that does not cost money)
Open source: bsd, C#, Linux, e
Kevin Bedell will be speaking at SCALE 3x (Score:3, Interesting)
I dislike Free software (Score:2)
Keep the two phrases (Score:2)
Freedom Software (Score:2, Interesting)
distinction (Score:2)
If you sign away enough of yourself on NDAs and other agreements, even the Microsoft Windows sources will be open to you... but that doesn't make it free. Hell, you probably can't even tell your friends what you saw.
For my part, I could care less if the software is open, but I do care if there's some dipshit company that's restricting the use of
libre software (Score:2)
I first saw the term "libre" proposed on the gnu.misc.discuss ML back in the eighties (note: I haven't read that list since the eighties, but that's neither here nor there). I liked the term then, and I still like it now. Of course, it's never achieved the popularity of "free" or "open
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I just ignore the distinction anyway. (Score:3, Interesting)
ESR and RMS might be of the opinion "Free" and "Open Source" mean something substantially different. Guess what? It isn't their decision anymore. The community has grown larger than them.
Moralism or Methodology (Score:2, Interesting)
As a moral concept, I strongly support the concept of open source and free software. As comparatively cryptic as it often tends to be, it also provides an abundance of learning and utility resources that were simply not available in previous decades.
But, at least to me, it seems that a lot of people lose touch with reality and begin assuming that the Open Source movement (loosely, a moral imperative to move the indust
Fundamental difference (Score:2)
Most of us geeks understand the value of software freedom. I
Freedom Software (Score:3, Interesting)
Eric Raymond is wrong about Sourceforge (Score:3, Interesting)
Raymond notes that a search on Sourceforge for "open source" versus "free software" is 97%+ versus Despite this, the words free software don't appear on my project's Sourceforge page. After reading this, perhaps I'll put those words up there. Looking around at other projects, I see one on page two of a Google search for "free" on Sourceforge that one project aims to develop free (GPL) speech recognition tools [sourceforge.net]. This project seems to be one saying it is in the Stallman "faction" although since they say "free (GPL)...tools" instead of "free software", Eric Raymond doesn't count them.
More importantly, let's look at the license [sourceforge.net], are people issuing the "open source" BSD ones or the "free" GPL ones? 40434 projects are GPL while only 4194 projects are BSD. In fact, 6479 projects are LGPL, so even the GPL lesser license beats BSD.
This is just nuts (Score:5, Informative)
Free Software - This is software which is Free, as in speech. As in the wind. As in thought. This software gives the users four basic freedoms -
The Free Software movement is about Freedom to use my programs without restrictions (read your EULA, folks), Freedom to give copies of the program(s) to others (sorry, can't give you a copy of photoshop even if you're going to use it only once), Freedom to modify the programs (This program is close to what we need but does not suit our businesses' needs. I'll have my IT boys fix it.), and the Freedom to create a community working together to create great software. More information can be found on GNU's philosophy pages [gnu.org].
Open Source - While the Open Source definition [opensource.org] mirrors the Free Software definition in many ways, the two are far from the same in theory and are almost totally different in practice. Real world experience shows that the Open Source movment is far more interested in bug checking than freedom - insert the "many eyes" statement here. This is more development model than philosophy, while FS focuses on the "why", OS focuses on the "how". This is what gets Free Software fans in arms - we worry more about what the software will let us do than about how the software was made. An excellent explination of this is "It's Time to Talk About Free Software Again [debian.org]", written by Open Source co-founder and Debian guru Bruce Perens [perens.com] (/. profile [slashdot.org]).
Since this post is getting very wordy, I'll close with something I've noticed over the past year or so - When a lot of slashdotters talk about Open Source they're really talking about the freedoms that the Free Software philosophies have given them. Look around at the stories and comments and keep in mind what both movments really are, you'll be quite amazed.
(Please forgive my terse presentation - this can be a very deep subject and I wanted to keep it as brief as possible.)
Re:This is just nuts (Score:3, Insightful)
However, it comes to the point where you need to ask the question - "At what point have we strayed from our original purpose?" Open Source was founded to combat the problems in the presentation of the philosophi
Why Free Software (Score:4, Insightful)
The Open Source Initiative answers that question by saying that Open Source software is better: the programs are better, the development model is better, the support is better. In some cases that's at least subjectively true. Apache really is a best-of-class webserver. gcc really is a very good compiler collection.
But then the examples quickly dry up. Mozilla, supposed to be the posterchild of the OSI movement, was years late, and had to be forked to spawn Firefox to finally deliver something people will actually use. It's a bit better in some respects than Internet Explorer, but not by a large margin. What's more it has been plagued by the exact same problems that open source development was supposed to prevent: it's late, security issues have been kept under wraps [mozilla.org] (you'll need to copy-paste this link into a new browser window), and it's bloated.
That's not to say that it's bad software. In fact, I think it's pretty good software. But after years of development, broad community support, and generous funding by AOL, the end result turns out to be just slightly better than the most important closed source competitor. It's hardly a compelling argument in favor of the supposed superiority of Open Source.
It's easy to go on in this vein, and mention the whole or partial failures of Open Office, or Helixcode, or XFree86, but that would be merely antagonizing and besides, it doesn't prove anything. In order to debunk the claim that Open Source leads to better software, it's not sufficient to mention open source failures: it's necessary to show closed source success as well.
Well, that's not hard either. There's Apple's spectacular introduction of MacOS X, Microsoft's splendid
Considering all this, it's hard to maintain that Open Source implies better software. And if it doesn't imply that, then why use it, or produce it? After all, isn't the Open Source creed all about doing what works best?
Most Open Source advocates aren't quite ready to admit this to themselves yet. They claim Open Source produces more secure software, and use Windows' extremely poor record in this regard to prove it -- but they ignore the rising number of GNU/Linux exploits and the exemplary security record of closed source MacOS and HP/UX. They claim MS Office is bloated, but ignore the lumbering blimp that is Open Office. The list goes on and on, but I'm quite sure that at this point the few people who are still reading will wonder whether this post goes on forever.
When all is said and done, what remains is the love of programming, the joy of seeing your work being put to good use, and the desire to share it with like-minded souls. Being "better" is important; what's more important is how we can protect our rights to share amidst a climate of overbearing patents and corporate favoritism.
This is what the GPL tries to guarantee, and why Free Software is so different from Open Source.
Re:I thought (Score:3, Informative)
Not that I have anything against free beer.
Re:I thought (Score:2, Insightful)
however, most people don't really care if it's open source or not, free is fine. i like open source software, but don't mess with or even download the source code... it's nice that someone else does the work. someday i may learn a programing (non-web programing) language and help out, but until then, let someone else mess with the source code. as long the free is adware/spyway/malware free.
Re:I thought (Score:5, Insightful)
Open Source is "here's the source, you can see what it does, feel free to use the source to make something else."
Free Software is "everyone has the right to see what their computer's doing, and do whatever they want with the software on their computer."
(The headaches start because GPL'd "Free Software" is rather antagonistic to those that want to make a living selling software. It's hard to profit when anyone can copy your product and sell it for half price.)
Re:I thought (Score:2, Informative)
Also, I'm not surprised that an open source person said that they are the same. I dare you to find a free software person who thinks they are the same. Free software is about idealism, where things like attitudes and freedom matter. Open source is more about bug free software and success in the marketplace. The se
Re:I thought (Score:3, Informative)
Not quite. You need to strike out the "feel free to use the source to make something else" bit, because that's not true. There are companies (e.g., Microsoft) that are happy to let you see the source, but prohibit you from actually using and changing it (in any meaningful way). It may be that this can't even be considered "Open Source," but they sure call it that!
Re:As opposed to ... (Score:2)
With GPL, however, it's harder to do that, because somebody else can eat your lunch no matter how big or small your modifications are.
There
Re:I thought (Score:2)
An AC replied: I challenge you to 1) offer proof for this ridiculous statement, and 2) demonstrate how "open source" software differs.
That's easy enough:
Re:I thought (Score:3, Insightful)
There is a distinction between free as in cost, and as in freedom.
Re:I thought (Score:2)
They're not talking about that kind of "free". However, you make a very good point without realizing it.
People can, and will give out "free" software that isn't "free". Sometimes they'll let you see the source, they'll call it "open source" but it really won't be
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:FSF and OSI are simply 2 competing organizatoin (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not trolling here -- in my eyes, there just isn't really much of an industry around free software. Those lucky few who have made a couple bucks tend to have had to do it in a service industry, like technical support or software piracy.
Re:Poll Troll Toll (Score:2, Insightful)
Now, back to the topic at hand...
Open Source packages that are sold (such as Enterprise versions of Linux a la SUSE or Xandros) prove that Open Source does not always mean freebies, though many have come to equate it with such a term.
This is particularly interesting because of the mindset. When I think of Open Source, I think of useful software that's free, but without detriments to my system (firefox or Open Office).
But when I think of free so
Re:Maybe I'm old school (Score:2)
As it stands, Free Software refers to software that is distributed under a GPL-like license, but I think that this is a poor definition. I have seen BSD projects that I would consider much more free than many GPL projects, and I'm sure there are folks out there who think that the GPL's restrictions with respect to redistribution and linking constitute restrictions on freedom.
Of
Re:Important for selling managers on the idea (Score:2)
A very important point. Often, in getting something new accepted, it's important to ask yourself how your potential customers will interpret your explanation of why they should change. If the people controlling the purse strings think "free software" means low quality and lack of support, they won't go for it. Calling it "open source" avoids that, even if they don't understand the advantages of having access to the source.
Re:I dont agree with this (Score:2, Insightful)
All free software is open source (because its source code is available), but not all open source software is free.
Re:Go BSD (Score:3, Insightful)
With a license like the GPL, you can never be forced out of the market by your competitor stealing your product and breaking compatibility. Conversely, both your customers benefit from any improvements either of you make, and you can still make lots
Re:RMS should dispense with the Marxist rhetoric (Score:3, Insightful)
You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it seems like you have bought into a system of ideology which perpetuates the notion that they deserve - have a right to - their social, economic, and political control of our lives.
The current order is the creation of men; it is not holy, sacred, or Truth. These men were no wiser or more priveleged to truth than ourselves. They are
Re:beer vs. speecs (Score:2)
Re:There is an enormous difference...... (Score:2)
You're forgetting RMS's comment: "It's free as in speech, not free as in beer.". You're talking about free-as-in-beer software, which doesn't have to be open-souce at all. Closed-source free software has all the problems you describe. I tend to call it no-payment-required software.
The distinction between free-as-in-speech software and open-source software is, IMHO, an important one, though. Open-source software is satisfied with the source as-in being available. Free software aims to make sure the source s
Re:Never use the GPL (Score:3, Interesting)
The GPL has been the subject of legal battles. So far, every company that's been faced with copyright violation charges stemming from including GPL'd code in their products while not complying with the terms of the GPL has, after having their lawyers review the GPL, elected to comply with it's terms rather than risk going to court. Even companies like Cisco who certainly have good lawyers and enough money for that not to be an issue. If it were that easy to rip the GPL to shreds, wouldn't someone have decid