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Christmas Cheer The Almighty Buck

12 Christmas Gifts Not To Buy Online 176

nsingapu writes "While online shopping is booming this Christmas, niche products like "two turtle doves" purchased on the Internet are becoming increasingly more expensive then their non e-tailed counterparts. PNC bank has updated their annual tongue-in-cheek economic analysis, based on the cost of goods and services purchased by the True Love in the holiday classic, "The Twelve Days of Christmas." The analysis compares the cost of traditional goods against their cost thoughout the past 20 years and against the price when purchased online. PNC concludes that most items are more expensive to buy over the Internet, primarily due to the cost of shipping, and that the abundance of cheaper labor in countries such as India and China has resulted in pressure on U.S. manufacturers to outsource."
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12 Christmas Gifts Not To Buy Online

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  • Google Cache (Score:2, Informative)

    by amigoro ( 761348 )
    Google Cache here []

    Moderate this comment
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    • Ever try buying electronics from suppliers in Europe? I recently paid 100$US more in currency exchange on an item I could have bought from a US supplier and then had shipped to Europe for 1/2 the cost. This is ridiculous. 400$US and 400EU for the same item and your still stuck paying for shipping either way. I wish prices on products were set to reflect currency values. 400$US = 300EU
      • That's because of the exchange rate - the dollar isn't worth squat these days.

        OTOH from the european side we have effectively double the spending power to buy US goods at the moment...

        What pisses me off though is when companies assume £1=$1 and sell exclusively do closed markets (yes I'm talking to you apple... $600 for a 20gig ipod wouldn't sell in the US.. why does it in the UK?)

        • Re:Google Cache (Score:5, Informative)

          by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @02:15PM (#11002086) Journal
          $600 for a 20gig ipod wouldn't sell in the US.. why does it in the UK?

          Simple: because people are prepared to pay that price. Products generally retail at the price that will bring the most profit, increased prices will reduce the volume, but increase the gross profit. There is a optimum point somewhere and it would appear that for many electronics devices, it is higher in the UK.

          There is also the factor that the UK price includes VAT (17%), while the US price does not include tax.

  • by IamGarageGuy 2 ( 687655 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:04PM (#11001423) Journal
    The internet price of swans appears to be skyrocketing. Must remember to get all of my swan supplies from local swan merchant instead of
  • by mishmash ( 585101 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:05PM (#11001424) Homepage
    Increasingly the internet is mirroring the range of retail offerings that are available in the offline world - and much more.

    Saying that online shopping is more expensive than the high street doesn't make sense - one thing's for sure there's a lot more choice online..

  • by Fr4ncis ( 763671 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:05PM (#11001426) Homepage
    I'm a nerd, I don't buy gifts at all you insensitive clod, I just receive the ones in my (rigorously) ThinkGeek wish list!
  • Merry Mercantilism. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by the talented rmg ( 812831 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:07PM (#11001431)
    Indeed, with the dollar *tanking* like it is, the cost of Christmas can be expected to take a sharp upturn even in terms of currencies like True Love and Monopoly Money.

    I'd be a lot more inclined to laugh if this weren't so serious. The financial security of our country is at serious risk given the astonishing rate of decline in the dollar since the election. With the Chinese selling off dollars like hotcakes, costs of toys made in the Orient, such as DVD players, PDAs, and iPods, will be just a little higher this year and the trend will only continue.

    I hope everyone can eek out a Merry Christmas this year. It may be your last in while. With the mercantilist economic policies of the Bush Administration only likely to continue and with confidence in US financial institutions at an all time low and dropping, everyone should just make sure this is a Christmas to remember. Next year, you may not be able to give your kids anything more than a hug and an yellow onion.

    Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      The West Coast of the USA has launched a campaign to boycott products made in China []. The Chinese have brutalized Tibetans and continue to do so []. Your conscience beckons you to join this boycott.

      As for offshoring, it damages worker's rights and environment in the USA. Chinese companies do not pay the cost of worker's rights and privileges (e.g. disability insurance) and the cost of protecting the environment. Hence, Chinese companies can undercut American companies.

      If you see a product that is "Made

      • A sharply falling dollar will mean our labor prices will go down compared to those in China and India and eventually manufacturing will start flowing back. In other words, we will be getting that inshoring stuff they always talk about -- that is to say, marginal jobs in manufacturing and low-end computer maintenance.

        Still, this will all come at significant costs in terms of standard of living. A lot of our thinkgeek wishlists will fill up, but not empty. No Playstation 3 for little Billy. Indeed, we on a o
        • LOL! The dollar has quite a bit to go before American labour prices are comparable to Chinese and Indian. Think about an order, maybe two: 10 or 100 dollars for a single euro (given that Europe doesn't budge). Before such a thing happens, hell has indeed frozen over in the US on a scale in which the depression of the 30's will seem like a holiday in the sun.

          No, the falling dollar is a cheap trick to finance the national debt, at the risk of losing the dollar as the world currency. It's a risky bet, as a l

      • by Otter ( 3800 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:33PM (#11001539) Journal
        If you see a product that is "Made in China" or "Made in India", simply do not buy it.

        You are aware that China and India are two different countries, right? We're not talking about confusing Nauru or Tuvalu with Vanuatu -- you seem unable to distinguish between the two biggest countries in the world.

        Regarding the grandparent's point: I'm concerned about the dollar policy as well but it's worth keeping in mind that "China and India are stealing our jobs!!!!" and "The falling dollar is making imports too expensive! Our lifestyles will be destroyed!!!" are mutually incompatible manifestations of hysteria. You can't have imports and not have imports.

        • by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @01:04PM (#11001688) Journal
          I'll go one further: The Dali Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, fled to India when the Chinese invaded and it was in India that he set up his government-in-exile. And China has invaded India in the past too.

          Sorry, but it's this sort of ignorance of the highest magnitude - not realising that China, the world's largest communist country, and India, the world's largest democracy, are two seperate countries - that has people who aren't American rolling their eyes and dismissing Americans as stupid. I mean, have you ever heard of anyone anywhere who assumes that the US and Cuba are the same country? Because that's the closest analogy I can come up with to thinking that China and India are one and the same.

          To the original poster who made this dumb assumption I have this advice: it's better to say nothing and have people think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Oh, and read a book too every now and then. Believe me, right now people like you are giving your country a very bad name the world over.
          • Read the grandparent post again. Nobody said that China was India. The poster said not to BUY from either of those countries, but only listed reasons for China. The reasons for india, I assume, are that they are also taking jobs from the US, many tech jobs. India also does not have the same worker and environment protections.

            Maybe you should have said "Sorry, but it's this sort of ignorance of the highest magnitude - no RTFA, maing myself look stupid on slashdot"

            You are the only one making dumb assumption
            • by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @01:37PM (#11001855) Journal
              No, he just gave a list of reasons why you shouldn't trade with China, most prominently its occupation of Tibet and its poor treatment of the Tibetan people, then proceeded to say that those were reasons not to trade with China and India.

              That's like me making a list of reasons why you shouldn't buy, say, Cuban goods and then concluding that those are good reasons not to buy from Cuba or from the US.

              Now, if he had mentioned any reasons why trading with India was bad, such as the loss of tech jobs there (as if that's not the fault of greedy US employers rather than the fault of skilled Indian technicians), then perhaps you might have a point. But he didn't give a single such reason and just tarred India with the broad brush that he'd used to tar China with. And, as I've pointed out, India isn't China and it isn't guilty of brutalising Tibet or any of the other things that the AC did deign to mention, so mentioning India in the same breath as China was entirely inappropriate.

              Boy, I bet that the irony of you mentioning Indian worker and environment protections in the same week as the 20th anniversary of Union Carbide's Bhophal disaster, which it still hasn't cleaned up or properly compensated the victims of, just passes over your head.
              • > India isn't China and it isn't guilty of brutalising Tibet or any of the other things that the AC did deign to mention

                You are the only one that brought up Tibet because it has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand. I agree with your position, but to bring it up is to try emotionalizing the issue with facts that don't apply in the slightest. You seem to be grasping at straws to make him look like an ignorant American, but he is not (ignorant, I mean, he may be American) AFAICT. Most
                • Let me refine my comments a bit. The OP DID mention Tibet, but not that India was brutalizing them.
                  • Wow, nice backtracking - I guess you can read after all. It was precisely because the original AC made such wild leaps of logic that I posted anything at all: India has nothing whatsoever to do with any of the points he mentioned and if he (Was the AC you, perhaps?) did want to say that you shouldn't trade with India because of tech jobs going there, well, then he should have said so.

                    How about I talk about World War II and the horrors of the gas chambers in one breath and then talk about how Germany and th
                    • The next time you're buying a pair of sneakers, think about how the store selling them to you makes more from that one sale than the young sweatshop labourer who made them makes in a quarter. Then think about how much those shoes would cost if she and everyone else in the labour chain was paid a fair wage.

                      And what are you implying with this? That it is OK to buy overpriced shoes because they would be even more expensive if employers were ethical?

                      The fact is this: you ignore the jump in logic that could i

        • You've got to be joking, what's happening is the rest of the world that's been used as a sweat shop for the past 40years is just starting to catch up and probably helped keep the markets high over the last 10ish years.

          Expect things to start costing a lot more in the future.

          The UK's done really well on this one, we don't product any food, most of our manufacturings offsured etc.. This has helped keep inflation down (cheap imports) with the added benifit of reducing local CO2 and CH4 emmissions.

          Other great
        • While attempting to install a (defective) Netgear router, I spent quite a while on the phone with tech support. The call center was obviously in India, judging by the accent of the operator and the voices of those in the backgound. I wonder how much time might have been saved if I hadn't had to repeat simple things over and over (like the spelling of come common American-English terms) or how much time I spent saying, "Excuse me..could you repeat that?". It seems a shame that a company based out of a city n
          • I don't find this relegated to outsourced tech support. It's just that tech support seems to be an afterthought for most companies.

            The thing that pisses me off the most is that the only reason I call tech support is because I need to talk to someone who knows more about the product than I do. For the past few years, I feel like I could save time by asking my computer illeterate local gas station attendent for help and get the same service.
      • Buy "Made in Poland" or "Made in Slovakia"
        "Soviet Russia made YOU"?
      • "If you see a product that is "Made in China" or "Made in India", simply do not buy it."

        Good luck building your next desktop computer.

    • The parent message was brought to you by your friends at the DNC. What a load of crap. We WANT the dollar to decrease in value globally to make our goods more cost competitive with other nations. Amazing how just that is happening now as exports for our country are hitting record highs. Our cost of living has barely moved and our wages continue to rise. I guess Greenspan and W have some kind of clue as to what they are up to. Your post REEKS of Chicken Little Syndrome. Perhaps you should seek profess
      • I suppose you also "meant to do that" when Iraq turned out to be the disaster anticipated.

        W isn't up to anything and Greenspan is actually worried about this state of affairs. Perhaps he should also seek professional help. W is a political idiot and an economic one too. He's running the country into the ground the same way he did his oil companies. The falling dollar is a symptom of his fiscal incompetence and it will have serious implications for the American worker in the next few years.

        Of course, corpo
        • = /ap/20041205/ap_on_bi_ge/disappointing_jobs Can you provide any links to back up your diatribe or do you just enjoy hearing yourself talk? 11 states all came to the same conclusion, that "Gay Marriage" shouldn't be. Deal with it. Your liberal elitist attitude is typical of the Democrats as a whole and is why you soundedly lost both the Presidential election but also in the House and Senate. Your views are OUT OF TOUCH with mainstream America.
    • I'd be a lot more inclined to laugh if this weren't so serious. The financial security of our country is at serious risk given the astonishing rate of decline in the dollar since the election. With the Chinese selling off dollars like hotcakes, costs of toys made in the Orient, such as DVD players, PDAs, and iPods, will be just a little higher this year and the trend will only continue.

      Wow, that would be great. All the crap Americans buy from China would be expensive. Over time, this would make manufac
      • by say ( 191220 )

        China's Yuan is directly linked to the US Dollar

        Actually, most Chinese commentators (and some american and european) seem to think that China will revaluate (now that's not a common word) the Yuan sometime in 2005. The direct link to US Dollar is rather much of a liability these days...

      • Bingo.

        Law of supply and demand at work again. To sell into the U.S. market, "foreign" goods must have an attractive combination of price, availability and ease of use. The U.S. can't have workers who are paid sizable wages to produce low-cost items.

        Interesting how many automobile factories of "foreign" companies are actually in the U.S., isn't it? Same with lots of other things.
      • Oh, wait. I forgot, China's Yuan is directly linked to the US Dollar [] and doesn't fluctuate relative to our currency.

        Most... boring... graph... EVER!!!
    • I'd be a lot more inclined to laugh if this weren't so serious. The financial security of our country is at serious risk given the astonishing rate of decline in the dollar since the election. With the Chinese selling off dollars like hotcakes, costs of toys made in the Orient, such as DVD players, PDAs, and iPods, will be just a little higher this year and the trend will only continue.

      Declining dollar != inflation. They are two totally different things. For a fast growing economy (like China's), a cheap
    • With the Chinese selling off dollars like hotcakes, costs of toys made in the Orient, such as DVD players, PDAs, and iPods, will be just a little higher this year and the trend will only continue.

      Actually, that would be a desirable effect. In order for Americans to buy all those toys, they have to earn money themselves. For that to happen we need to sell goods and services to the Chinese. And also consume more American g&s ourselves, which higher prices for imports encourages.

      Except that this is not

  • Why does the "Core" index exclude the swans?
    • I think it might be because swans cost so much more than the other birds ($3500 compared with $396, which is the next highest price, for the calling birds), but don't quote me on it.

      Anyone else have any ideas?
    • Re:"Core" Index? (Score:4, Informative)

      by jhobbs ( 659809 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:45PM (#11001586)
      Over the years the broadest swings have been in the swans which apparently are somewhat difficult to breed. Some years there are huge shortages other years gluts in availability. Excluding the swans from the core index allows for a more stable and truthful economic indicator that is not tied to supply-demand related swings in swan pricing.
  • by bigtallmofo ( 695287 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:08PM (#11001435)
    The sad thing is that some people are going to read this tongue-in-cheek analysis and really think that the Internet is more expensive because of shipping. From an economic perspective, purchasing commodity items on the Internet is more efficient than slogging around from store to store to find the cheaper price. On the Internet, you have nearly infinite choices. I guess if you compare purchasing an item in Best Buy to purchasing an item on, you might come to the conclusion that purchasing things in the store is cheaper because of shipping costs. But if you compare the cost of purchasing an item in Best Buy to the cheapest listed cost of buying the same item on, or any of the other thousands of sites that show the cheapest price, provide coupons for purchasing on the Internet, etc... The Internet will win every time.
    • It's more expensive to buy a full-grown pear tree on the Internet, because you have to have it shipped to you, rather than getting one locally. Do you know how much it costs to ship a 50 foot tall tree?
      • The pear tree online is only $2 more than buying it locally. (Which is well worth it to avoid having to haul it home yourself.) It's the live birds that are expensive to ship--$15 local versus $67.50 over the internet for the partridge.
  • by michaelmalak ( 91262 ) <> on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:08PM (#11001437) Homepage
    Online shoping is attractive mostly because of the time that it saves. Another factor is transportation cost, which AAA calculates to be 56.2 cents per mile [], which it appears PNC did not account for in its calculations. And from their cost breakdown [], it doesn't look like AAA is even taking into account medical costs, which is why I personally try to minimize the number of miles I drive (fear of injury or death).
    • Your point about the value of time (and implicitly, not dealing with Christmas shoppers up close and personal) is great.

      But in fairness, AAA's cost estimation used annual depreciation and insurance rates -- two things that aren't really "marginal" in cost.

      If you own a car, whether or not you take that one trip to the local strip mall, your depreciation and insurance costs won't change. Therefore, the marginal cost isn't 56 cents a mile, it's far lower. Petrol, actual wear and tear, oil and air filters,
      • Though it's a bit more complicated if online shopping allows (makes it easier, whatever) you to do without a car at all...
      • Depreciation has two components: mileage and age. My guess is each contributes half to the devaluation of a car. So depreciation has a significant -- I say half, conservatively a third -- marginal component. Taking an off-the-cuff estimate calculation done in my head, the AAA cost estimate excluding non-marginal costs still comes out to 25-30 cents per mile.
      • Insurance? Nope. You were going to pay those costs if you bought that TV at Fry's or at .

        But if you take the potential for accidents (which are much higher around the holidays) into account, then the potentially INCREASED price of your insurance should be counted.

        Then again, it's like saying every time you cross the road, you shorten your life-span... There are some people that will get in an accident every month, and there are some people who will NEVER get in an accident, and it's very mu

    • by Anonymous Coward
      Try taking public transportation, it not only minimizes your costs (assuming you're not some dick who thinks every second of your life is money), is better for the environment (since you save on burning energy for your car or the delivery van), and is better for your health (since you need to walk to and from the bus stops).

      Actually, for the above reasons, ordering through the internet is worse for the environment and your health.

      This is all actually true if you're buying smaller items, tongue-in-cheek if
    • Next time my wife wants me to take her shopping, I'll use that statistic. Wow, what a great stat -- hopefully it'll let me stay home on Sundays to watch my games.

  • by mishmash ( 585101 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:08PM (#11001438) Homepage
    Somewhere online one can buy Swans and Milkmaids??
  • (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:10PM (#11001443)
    Drumming Drummer (12 pack)

    Customers who bought this item also bought these items:
    Golden Rings (5-pack)
    Turtle Doves (2-pack)
    Pear Tree with Partridge
  • A license to SCO unix...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:12PM (#11001455)
    ...3 French hens, or has that been changed to 3 Freedom Hens?
  • by scotay ( 195240 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:13PM (#11001458)
    I've found that bleached pigeons work just as well as doves. It's a good thing.
  • Whether it is at SAMS club, where everything isn't always a good deal, or online, you just have to be smart about what you buy. And as far as shipping, it is even possible to avoid that. For instance, if I want something from that cost 15.00, with their free shipping for orders over 25.00, you can pick something else out that costs 10.00...and get free shipping. I was able to get a couple of DVDs from Amazon for about the same price I could have gotten them at Wal-Mart...with the exception that Wal-Mart has a limited selection of DVDs and Amazon has a huge selection.

    I do agree though, even ordering stuff off of Ebay, some people really try and stick it to you on shipping.

    • You should live up here in Canada and try to get a decent shipping rate from the US! Media mail (i.e. a DVD or game) from the US to Canada is something like $2 USD, but sellers try to charge you $7-10 because it's "overseas" (one US seller said this, I kid you not). Even charges $6 USD for shipping up here.

      You're right about low prices online, tho - I haven't purchased anything major in a B&M store for years. Free shipping and no sales tax (provincial) is your friend!

    • Some people try to "stick it to you on shipping", because that "shipping and handling" charge is mostly their profit margin.

      I've purchased only 1 thing online, via eBay. They tacked on a mandatory $1 insurance charge, but then the package arrived, there was no insurance mark at all. I checked with the post office -- that package was not insured. This was because that $1 "insurance" charge was actually part of their profit margin.

      Using the nickel-and-dime extra charges as support for profits is as o
  • They didn't say where the items were bought.
    Prices flucuate from town to town and state to state.

    If services were more expensive, perahps you could just buy your true love a trip to another country and give her some of the gifts there. In China, they'd probably cook the turtle doves for you and you wouldn't have to take them home.
  • by ndogg ( 158021 ) <the DOT rhorn AT gmail DOT com> on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:19PM (#11001484) Homepage Journal
    I'm not sure I even want to comment on this one. Let's just say that I could find this on the internet for way cheaper than even $41...
  • You see you just got to start dealing in bulk goods
    Notice how once you start buying in bulk in 11 and 12 the internet is cheaper. I have always wanted my own marching band and better get them now price seems to be increasing.
  • by gmplague ( 412185 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:20PM (#11001487) Homepage
    If you combine the best prices from the Internet and "Traditional" shopping, you'd spend $13,717.91

    Specifically, the cost of 12 Drummers Drumming and 11 Pipers Piping is significantly cheaper on the internet, and you can obtain five gold rings for $15 less on the internet than traditionally.

    Although, I wonder exactly what comes with "11 Pipers Piping"...
  • "most items are more expensive to buy over the Internet, primarily due to the cost of shipping"

    Most items are, however if you're willing to try smaller stores (reviewed by Reseller Ratings [], Epinion [] or another neutral place) several are offering free shipping so you save on both shipping and sales tax (if applicable in your area). Not to mention several of the smaller stores allow promotional coupons [] which are usually only for first-time customers but since when do us geeks show loyalty? :)

    Then again,
    • I find generally that the cost of shipping is offset by the lack of sales tax, when choosing merchants carefully. (Oh, yes, of course, I do pay the use tax at the end of the year for things I buy out of state. Doesn't everybody?)
  • by Aggrazel ( 13616 ) <> on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:25PM (#11001508) Journal
    Wow, these guys don't know where to shop. I can get a lot more than nine ladies dancing for only $19.95 per month on certain sites... and dancing's not all they do... heh heh.
    • We wouldn't have heard much in public about some song about the "12 Days of Christmas" if it had some line in it about "nine ladies fucking", now would we? Makes caroling in the neighborhood a wee bit awkward, eh.
  • by jgartin ( 177959 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:41PM (#11001573) Homepage
    When I shop online it isn't necessarily because I can find a better price (although you usually can when shopping for computer parts). It's because whatever I want isn't availalbe locally.
  • by magarity ( 164372 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @12:48PM (#11001606)
    cheaper labor in countries such as India and China has resulted in pressure on U.S. manufacturers to outsource

    That's cool with me; 9 American girls bopping to synth-pop aren't nearly as hot as 9 Indian girls gyrating to their respective traditional music. And if the 9 Chinese girls are in those long form-fitting Chinese dresses with the slits up the side... whoa momma!
  • I'm always surprised at how useful simple things like this can be. Look at how, over the years, the breakdown of the costs has changed from the goods being expensive, to the services being expensive. Mind you, I'm not convinced this is entirely due to cheap outsourcing to china, since most of the goods aren't manufactured, but are agricultural produce.

    Interesting too to see how other factors play such a part; the pear tree is more expensive not because of pears per se but because of increased diesel costs.
    • Another example a friend of mine (who works in the textile industry) told me is that when you buy garments, the higher/lower price stores ask for larger/smaller sizes is a sham, because the major factor that affects clothing prices is the time it takes to stitch/sew something together.

      A child version of a jacket is going to take almost as much time to stitch as the adult size, and the difference in cost of the fabric is negligible since the manufacturer buys in bulk, and the textile not used in smaller siz
  • by MadChicken ( 36468 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @01:36PM (#11001850) Homepage Journal
    The Canadian version would be quite a bit cheaper, and not just due to the dollar.

    8 comic books
    7 packs of smokes
    6 packs of two-four
    5 golden touques
    4 pounds of back bacon
    3 french toasts
    2 turtlenecks
    and a beer... in a tree.

    Of course you will notice 12 - 10 are missing due to time constraints, but we know at least one of those should be donuts.
    • At least give credit where credit is due, to the great Bob & Doug Mackenzie, for the improved Canadian version. Hoser. :-)

      Now I want to track down their "Strange Brew" album that had that tune on it.. damn.
      • Take off, eh!

        I was going to, but I thought I'd let it stew out there for a bit, see who recognized it.

        Here's my source, though they spell touque wrong. 12 daysofchristmas.shtml

        While you're surfing... .html

        Like, this is me, on the drums eh!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 05, 2004 @01:38PM (#11001859)
    I live in New Jersey. I ordered four books from Protoporia [] a Greek online bookstore. The four books I ordered only cost a total of 26.24 Euros, which compared to the price of books in America is decent. One of the books Thanos Vlekas(in Greek) only cost me an amazingly low price of 2.81 Euros, [] while the English translation of the same title cost $17.95 [] at Amazon. The problem is that shipping from Greece cost me 17.20 Euros and took 10 days. There is no alternative for Greek books though, there is no real Greek bookstore in the entire United States. Some stores in Astoria have a few Greek books but they are not bookstores, and it costs over $12 dollars alone to pay for tolls to drive there. All in all in this case though the shipping price is very high, there is no alternative, even driving to New York for books because of tolls would cost almost as much, something to keep in mind about online shipping, even driving out of your area can cost alot with tolls, gas, etc.
  • ...the abundance of cheaper labor in countries such as India and China has resulted in pressure on U.S. manufacturers to outsource.

    No way? Cheap labor is why companies outsource? I always thought it was the highly skilled workers, the high level of quality, or maybe even their great location relative to their customers. Good thing this analysis found this or else we'd have been left in the dark here!
  • Lords (Score:3, Funny)

    by Jeremi ( 14640 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @02:26PM (#11002136) Homepage
    What I want to know is, what exactly are "Lords a-leaping", and where can I buy them on line?
  • Quote from Sermon (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mrs clear plastic ( 229108 ) <> on Sunday December 05, 2004 @05:28PM (#11003187) Homepage
    I heard this very appropriate phraise during a church service once.

    " Are the gifts you bear to you families and
    loved ones created by hands guilded by the
    creativity generated by the spirit of true
    love; or are they put together by hands
    driven by the fear of the point of a gun
    held by a slave driver obsessed with profits
    from a holiday season raped by the money
    changers? "

    I make all of my gifts for my families. I have
    been making my own holiday gifts for the past
    six years. For those of you curious to see the
    kinds of gifts that I make (and the kinds of
    gifts that any of you out there can make), go
    to or
  • by sewagemaster ( 466124 ) <sewagemaster@gmai l . c om> on Monday December 06, 2004 @12:29AM (#11005373) Homepage
    Perverted Mayor Quimby (thumb out pointing at audience at podium): "... theeere will beeee 8 maids a milkinnng"

    Homer Simpson: "mmmmmmm milk...."

This process can check if this value is zero, and if it is, it does something child-like. -- Forbes Burkowski, CS 454, University of Washington