VOIP Meets Cell Phones 190
pnutjam writes "This looks really interesting. It looks like this company, Xcelis, has a bunch of cellphones hooked to VOIP equipment. Basically you pay them and if you have free in-network calling on your phone you call their phone and then dial out to whomever you want. Voila, unlimited calling to anyone."
Great - there goes free unlimited in network calls (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Great - there goes free unlimited in network ca (Score:2)
Re:Great - there goes free unlimited in network ca (Score:2)
Aren't most "unlimited" plans actually "high limit" plans? In other words, they're not truly unlimited, they just have very high thresholds and the phone companies count on the fact that most people never reach those thresholds. Check the fine print on your plan... even if there's no expicit threshold, the phone company may still be able to charge you for "unusually high" usage.
Eric
My cellphone customer disservice story [ericgiguere.com]
Re:Great - there goes free unlimited in network ca (Score:5, Informative)
CyberDave
Re:Great - there goes free unlimited in network ca (Score:2)
This reminds me of "unlimited" long distance for landlines. Here in Canada, some phone companies offered unlimited long distance (evening, nights and weekends) for $20/month. Apparently, though, enough people were using this that some of them had to slap on limits of like 800 hours or so per month. I think this was due to excessive long-distance calls for dial-up Internet connections.
Anyhow, the point I'm making is that whether or not a plan is truly "unlimited" or merely "high threshold", I bet the phone
Re:Great - there goes free unlimited in network ca (Score:2)
Back in the 1980s the airline that my mother worked for had a standing policy to overbook by 15.
It was cheaper do that than to schedule extra flights. For example if everyone showed up and you had 15 extra people, you could purchase tickets for all of them on a competing airline, refund their ticket prices and give them a free night in a hotel all for less than the cost of a sec
Re:Great - there goes free unlimited in network ca (Score:2)
Are you sure the 99999 isn't just a 'special number' used in the billing system database to designate unlimited. Most likely those fields in the database are numeric versus text so 99999 probably denotes unlimited. The software could jus
Re:Great - there goes free unlimited in network ca (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Great - there goes free unlimited in network ca (Score:2)
I hate this corporate spin bullshit.
They will only have to raise prices if:
A) They make no profit as-is.
B) There is no place else they can cut to make-up the money.
C) Basic cellphone coverage costs them more than they charge you already.
D) They have a higher profit margin on the extras this is eliminating.
etc, etc.
Frankly, this is just normal competition. You might as well say that cheap long-distance plans will force local phone companies to raise the
Re:Why? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Great - there goes free unlimited in network ca (Score:2)
Unlimited (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Unlimited (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Unlimited (Score:2, Interesting)
City Fido's a similar sort of thing, but their plan costs 45 CAD, which is slightly less of a good deal...
Re:Unlimited (Score:3, Informative)
Unlimited local, $30; unlimited LD, $50; feature packages available [leapwireless.com]
Unlimited cellular minutes, $100 [nextel.com]
Re:Unlimited (Score:2)
Here in Vancouver, for Cdn $45 you get a larger unlimited calling area than you do with a landline.
http://cityfido.ca/get/getcityfido.jsp?lang=en&
Re:Unlimited (Score:3, Informative)
Less overhead (bandwidth) is needed to handle voice calls than data/fax calls. There are plenty of companies who provide VOIP Fa
AT&T Wireless had one (Score:2)
I don't think that it exists anymore.. it was a promo plan.
Re:AT&T Wireless had one (Score:2)
NO ONE could touch the deal he has, he on average uses 5000 minutes a month, I never thought anyone would talk so much on the phone, but he's a cinematographer and is ALWAYS talking to someone coordinating something. plus living in L.A. he
Re:Unlimited (Score:2)
Cricket Communications [mycricket.com]currently does offer unlimited local and incoming calls for under $40 per month.
Too bad their coverage areas are so sparse.
LK
Re:Unlimited (Score:2)
"Cricket Communications. If you can hear one, you're out of range!"
Nice idea but... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is very inconvenient, because it essentially makes the addressbook on my cell phone useless. I'd love to have something that just automatically routes calls through them. That would definately add to the value of their service.
This, and what about incoming calls? I believe most cell phone companies still count your # of minutes based on people calling you, as well as your outbound calls.
Re:Nice idea but... (Score:2, Interesting)
How about removing the phone companies from the picture and just have basically Route your call like DNS does or like DHCP giving you an IP address. Instead of dialing a phone number you would dial something like voip://yourname.yourhost.com.
Re:Nice idea but... (Score:2)
You can learn more about ENUM, the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), and the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) at this link [enum.org].
Pause Feature (Score:5, Informative)
Not necessarily... while it would no longer be as simple as entering the number of the person you want to call, many phones will let you daisy chain them with a Pause feature. This feature tells the autodialer to wait n number of seconds (or half seconds or what have you for the particular phone) before dialing more numbers.
So you set it up to dial your access number, say 702-555-1212. You want it to then call your destination number, say 613-555-1234. You would then program the phone to dial:
702-555-1212,,,,613-555-1234
(the comma representing whatever character your phone uses to indicate a pause).
This way the phone dials the access number, waits a few seconds to let that call process and the service connect, then dials your destination number.
You could even insert access codes if necessary with additional pauses if need be (ie code 1234):
702-555-1212,,,1234,,,,613-555-1234
It is more work to setup, and you'd need to figure out what sort of delay you needed, but otherwise it should work. The ability to pause and enter more digits has been built into many phones for years...
Blockwars [blockwars.com]: Free, multiplayer, head to head game.
Re:Pause Feature (Score:5, Funny)
Fucktard (Score:2)
Apart from those users who contributed to the 500 billion sms messages sent in 2004 you mean?
Re:Fucktard (Score:2)
Yeah, and everyone is going to do that each time they try to dial a number?
On a telephone, what's easier, 661-277-8293, or punching in darkhelmet.myaddress.com?
On a computer, it's easier to remember. On a phone, it'd be a bitch to dial in.
Re:Pause Feature (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
use phone features for calling cards, office PBX's (Score:2)
Re:Nice idea but... (Score:2)
If you were concerned about incomming calls I
Well, if not already in there (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well, if not already in there (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Well, if not already in there (Score:2)
I agree. It probably falls under the heading of "reselling minutes" which is effectively what these guys are doing.
To me, this is simply exploitation of the unlimited calling plans.
The idea is that if the cellular service provider can get you to convince friends/family to sign up for the same service by giving you free minutes for intra-carrier calling, they will gain additional revenue. So the companies are using the free minutes to re
Re:Well, if not already in there (Score:2)
Re:Well, if not already in there (Score:2)
Re:Well, if not already in there (Score:2)
Re:Well, if not already in there (Score:2)
The companies that offer and allow the better and greater service will make more money that those who attempt to corner the market. Especially in this market.
Re:Well, if not already in there (Score:2)
That sounds unlikely. Either they'd have to be the ones blocking it or they wouldn't have much to say.
... if they had a policy that said "you may not call our competitors to compare rates using our phone" it would be just as meaningless.
Really
You'll still be paying the cell-company for the air-time you use with them, it's not like you'd not be using their network.
Cheers
Can you here me NOW? (Score:5, Funny)
So you can have the underwater sound of a regular cellphone, combined with the intermittent stuttering of VoIP.
Re:Can you here me NOW? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Can you here me NOW? (Score:2)
stop using using ATM ( Asynchronous Transfer Mode )
Asynchronous Transfer means packets arrive out of order
SONET on the other hand is a Synchronous Optical Network
Use SONET, QoS and IPv6 and this is the foundation of
making it work right
SONET is what the majority of the voice trunks ride on now anyways
But what alot of ppl do not know is that it also carries alot
of the DATA out there instead of ATM
Sprint has provided ATM data services a
Re:Can you here me NOW? (Score:2)
One thing you shouldn't do - layer your voip network ontop of an existing data network - or worse yet use the internet as your transport medium - this will lead to the problems you describe.
To guarantee the QOS needed for voice grade traffic you must have a dedicated H.323 (or whatever the next better emerging protocol is - I can't recall its name atm) from end to end.
Terms of service? (Score:2)
Generally any kind of free call comes with associated restrictions. It can be as vague as 'reasonable use', but it's almost always there. So, unless they've agreed this specifically with the cell phone providers... aren't they breaking their TOS?
Am I the only one who doesn't get it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Am I the only one who doesn't get it? (Score:4, Informative)
Save money... (Score:2)
Frankly though I can't imagine that this operation will be around for long. Phone companies are not going to tolerate somebody manipulating their market like this to make some money at their expense.
Re:Am I the only one who doesn't get it? (Score:2)
expect it to not last too long.
Imagine (Score:2)
Cellular? Bah! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Cellular? Bah! (Score:2)
Oh yeah, what about WiMAX, right? Sorry, that isn't slated to be available in a truly mobile form until 2006/2007 [wimaxforum.org] (search for "Third-generation CPEs").
Re:Cellular? Bah! (Score:2)
At least it's mobile. But I think it's not worth the early investement.
Pantheon's idea shows promise. But Sprint, Verizon, etc. won't let this last. It's going to hurt their bottom line, and they'll put the kibosh on free in-network calling quick.
Re:Cellular? Bah! (Score:2)
I know, WiFi sounds so sexy...
Robert
They'll probably get shutdown but... (Score:2, Insightful)
D-Bus API in skype Asterisk anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:D-Bus API in skype Asterisk anyone? (Score:2)
Don't do it. (Score:2, Informative)
The providers know about this service and hate it, and also have enough money to crush it. So don't plan on umlimited minute plans for the time being.
nothing new (Score:5, Informative)
Re:nothing new (Score:2)
You join their service, and call their phone number, which is in-network for your phone. They use voip to route it to whatever phone network they need and make an outgoing in-network phone call on that network.
The twist is not that this is VOIP.
Essentially, the "twist" is that you are "in-network" on 2 networks, through them. Kind of abusing the whole "in-network" model, though my understanding is that some land-carriers have done similar things before.
Re:nothing new (Score:3, Insightful)
Heh, knew I'd seen something like this in Wired several years back.
http://wired.com/wired/archive/8.08/fetish.html [wired.com]
Re:nothing new (Score:2)
Maybe, depending on exactly what you can live with. There is a bluetooth module for asterisk [asterisk.org], that can connect to some cell phones. It is not stable yet, but it in theory you can set a computer with bluetooth up near the window, running asterisk. When you get home you put your cell phone by the window (and on a charger), and Asterisk connects to the phone. Then you call from whereever you can connect to that machine. Either with VOIP from other computers in the house, or a FXS/FXO (I can never reme
bigzoo.com (Score:3, Informative)
They use caller id to identify you so no need for pin codes, and they have an online phone book with speed dial. I'm using skypeout to call from home and bigzoo from my cell and pay on average
Re:bigzoo.com (Score:2)
I was going to say that I pay on average 2-3 cents per minute for international calls
Jan 31, 2005 = No more Bigzoo (Score:2)
Now I have to search for a replacement. Any suggestions for a landline 'virtual calling card' service at ~2 cents a min?
Re:Jan 31, 2005 = No more Bigzoo (Score:2)
I've been using Onesuite [onesuite.com] for a couple years now. I've not paid much attention to their International rates, but domestic US is 2.9 cents/min. if you access them toll free, and 2.5 cents if you use a local access number. No monthly fees, connection charges, etc. Just straight up per minute charge.
They're not perfect; I sometimes have a problem getting connected on their toll free numbe
Re:Jan 31, 2005 = No more Bigzoo (Score:2)
I just discovered they offered the referral service that way.
Re:bigzoo.com (Score:2)
Privacy? (Score:2, Interesting)
If you sign up for this service, Xcelis will be in a fantastic position of keeping track of ALL the calls you make through your cellphone. Who you called, how long you talked to them, perhaps even what you talked about. Hmmm, Xcelis might just be a front for the American Spy Agency^W^W^W Dept of Homeland Security.
Re:Privacy? (Score:2)
Bad lag! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Bad lag! (Score:2)
If your a windows user download NeoTrace or an equivalent tool
and watch your "latency" to other nodes and ip addresses of ppl on different or even the same network your on
The cable modem folks and some DSL providers are notorious for
routing all their traffic in a region through one location and that
location having routing issues because they are technically running
it at capacity or ocassionally beyond capactiy
Where I am at everyone for hundreds of miles goes thru Kansas Ci
free mobile to mobile calling? (Score:2)
I've got my cell on a plan with unlimited local evenings & weekends, and then use one of those ubiquitous call #X, enter account, password and destination # type plans. Similar to calling cards, but it's 500 minutes/month for CAD10. www.onlinetel.com. It's pretty easy to enter the e
VOIP?? That's kid's stuff (Score:2, Funny)
CINCO!!
If it's successful... (Score:2, Insightful)
Mike
Cell phone VoIP FXO port (Score:2)
This is an interesting concept but what is really needed is a device that provides cellular service but is a black box that allows interfacing to a phone system. Every company of any size with a standard cell carrier would have a bank of phones attached to their PBX to cut cellular costs.
Cell companies should jump on this by offering DS1 service for calls onto their network
Re:Cell phone VoIP FXO port (Score:2)
> that provides cellular service but is a black box that allows interfacing to a phone system.
A Wavecom WMO2 could be made to do this without a lot of heartache. Long story short, it's a GSM cell phone.. except instead of a keypad and a screen, it has a serial port. And instead of a speaker and a microphone, it has a modular male end, like you plug into a standard telephone handset.
Re:Cell phone VoIP FXO port (Score:2)
Looks like WMO2 only does messaging. I want something in the same form factor as a Cisco VIC-2FXO that lets me connect to the cellular network the same fashion that this card lets me talk to land lines.
I suppose an external device that was cellular on one side and FXS on the other would do the trick
Legislation (Score:3, Insightful)
So where is the advantage? (Score:2)
I already have unlimited long distance on my cell phone.
What am I missing? I read the page and it's probably obvious but it's just not clicking.
The Home Kit would be a good seller... (Score:5, Insightful)
But, a "home version" would be interesting. Two phones with the minimal accounts for unlimited mobile to mobile would still be cheaper than one of the mega minute plans. A kit to connect your "home" cell phone to your Vonage box would do the trick. The cell carriers wouldn't see the insane #'s of minutes on a service providers accounts but just you calling your other phone often. A slick trick would be to allow bi-directional calling with this kit.
In early days of PacBell GSM here in CA they had 1st incoming minute free. I had my SIM in a box with a GPS receiver attached. I could call from a land line every minute, poll for position, hang up under a minute. One month I made 1800 sub-minute calls to my mobile to track my cars location.
They later ammended the plan to not include data calls and then scrapped the 1st minute plan all together, but I got a lot of testing in before they did.
Re:The Home Kit would be a good seller... (Score:2)
Years ago I had a coworker who, along with her local ham radio club, rigged a ham radio up to land line. She swore it was better than a cell phone, although she did find it annoying when someone else was using the line.
Haha (Score:3, Interesting)
What I really see is PDA phones having WIFI or better yet, WIMAX, connecting to a network and doing VOIP that way, thereby completely bypassing the cell phone company.
That way, when you have WIFI, you call for free (or very low cost). When you don't have WIFI coverage, you dial out using the cell phone network.
Now THAT'S cell phone VOIP! Not this load of crap lol.
When cell phones and VOIP converge (Score:2)
In case that link doesn't work, with the recent Google Groups changes and all, search for "Which version of Windows CE and Shell should be used" instead.
I went another direction (Score:4, Interesting)
ENTER CURRENT #: (let's enter 19998887777)
TRANSFER TO #: (let's enter 15554443333)
atdt
So, it calls me (pauses due to finding the cell phone I may be holding), dials "5" for the heck of it (lets me know it is working
Free unlimited calls anywhere I go already
But the price is expensive (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:But the price is expensive (Score:2)
Teenage girls.
Unlimited Calling! Not. (Score:3, Interesting)
Unlimited free in-network calling doesn't mean UNLIMITED. It means unlimited until they choose to see otherwise, labelling it as "abuse" of their network. They have the right to terminate you for such abuse.
What kind of abuse? It is up to your provider. Don't like it? Walk away. Or live with it. Most people don't abuse it. But there are plenty that try.
inside/outside, leave me alone (Score:3, Interesting)
SOYO VOIP Phone (Score:2)
It's a VOIP phone from SOYO [soyo.com] that allows free direct calls between same model phones. They also provide an international calling plan but I don't think I will be interested in that.
I bought two G668 [tigerdirect.ca] models and I intend to place one in my parent's place (they live abroad) and one besides my regular telephone. That way it will work as a family "bat-phone" and reduce our long distance charges to zero.
Two great advantages are that they don't need to get connected to a computer and th
VOIP Article on the Economist.com (Score:2)
Check this article from the Economist [economist.com]
Like SIPphone's access numbers, but for cellphones (Score:2)
Re:Racks of Phones? (Score:2, Interesting)
It's still a pretty cheesy solution though. What we really need is for the Cellular providers to setup VOIP gateways directly to their private networks (preferably with IAX2 protocol as an option to work with asterisk http://www.asterisk.org/ [asterisk.org]) and then I can broker calls to or
Re:conection to landlines? (Score:2)
Re:At last! (Score:2)
Let me see you fiddle with that...
Re:At last! (Score:2)
Re:linkage for teaching pronunciation (Score:2)
Re:Haha, sweet. (Score:2)