
Microsoft Virtual PC 2004 Removes Linux Support 481
Psykechan writes "MSFN has got themselves a beta of the new MS Virtual PC 2004 which should be out at the end of this year. Most notable in their 'fixes' is the removal of Linux, BSD, Netware, and Solaris from the supported OS list. They may still work, they just aren't supported. We all thought that this would happen after MS bought Connectix but this just makes it official."
Pretty useless then (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Pretty useless then (Score:4, Interesting)
Ah but (Score:2)
Web developers! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Pretty useless then (Score:5, Informative)
The only hope now lies in Bochs [sourceforge.net], an open source PC emulator/virtual machine thingy. Currently it's quite hard to configure and has very low compatibility with existing x86 OS's, but at least it somewhat works and the source is out there.
Re:Pretty useless then (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Pretty useless then (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Pretty useless then (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, I can't see why anybody would care about this VirtualPC M$ junk, when VmWare is out there and compatible with everything except OS/2 (I've checked, and it doesn't work, and OS/2 does not work unde Plex86 either, and there, I got some more debugging info, OS/2 uses a bit in CR2 that none of these vitualizers have caed to virtualize...(But ATM, I can't remember which bit...))
that's a joke, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
it allows Mac OS users to run Windows applications? What other application does that (reliably)?
When Windows applications are themselves reliable, we can fault the maker of emulators and hardware for problems. When the hardware maker is bought by M$, it will soon be junk.
I'm sure the previous poster considered the dearth of x86 hardware for Mac. He seems to think that x86 hardware for Mac is more useful for running Linux, BSD and other free software than it is for running M$ junk.
What this means is that Microsoft is moving to put in barbs to mess with anything but Windoze. That these barbs will mess windoze too is not their concern because Microsoft cares even less about Mac users than they care about their own users. They have always done this kind of thing and they always will. The next challenge is the Next Generation Security BIOS which will lock everything but M$ out of commodity hardware. If it's not under M$ control, it won't make money for M$ and M$ can't tollerate that. Wierd, screwed up, agressive and paranoid but true, M$ has and continues to repeate their desire to run everyone's computer.
Re:Pretty useless then (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Pretty useless then (Score:3, Interesting)
+ MS-DOS for old games. (Connectix even marketed this)
+ OS/2 for legacy applications.
I think most Linux users of virtualization prefer Linux as the host OS and Windows as guest with VMWare, since they are usually migrating from Windows -> Linux and not the other way around.
Name change (Score:2)
Re:Name change (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Pretty useless then (Score:5, Interesting)
We went for Virtual PC because it was cheaper than VMWare (By quite some margin, I might add).
However we've already been shafted by the Connectix - Microsoft handover; we bought VPC 5.0, and when we wanted to upgrade to 5.2 they're no longer available. All we can get is a 5.2 trial, or the 5.0 we already have. The Virtual PC page at Microsoft also used to say VPC 2004 would be released in November; now it says "End of 2003". Bah!
Re:Pretty useless then (Score:2)
Doesn't sound useless to me. (But I'm still sticking with VMware.
Actually not true (Score:4, Insightful)
Expect MS to bundle this into their dev studio to try to lock out VMWare and further reduce the ways to run Linux.
Re:Actually not true (Score:4, Funny)
No - it can't be. Just the other day Microsoft was saying [slashdot.org] that it's bad to lock people into a single vendor.
Re:Actually not true (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, if they don't officially support Linux anymore, I take my chances and would personally rather not take chances in using it in that manner anyway.
What this means for me is a) buy a new PC, b) deal with swapping drives, or c) dump another $349 on VMWare. I purchased VPC over vmware in the first place because during my evaluations, VPC was more reliable, stable, and faster. Many have argued me on those points the in my scenarios, VMWare wasn't up to the task. Of course, now they have version 4 out so that may be different.
I'm dissappointed but once I heard MS bought VPC, I knew this would happen. It is just way too convenient to run Red Hat 9 in a VM and test and make changes to the web site in the host OS without leaving the guest.
I guess VMWare will be getting my money in the futre. Of course, I"m MSDN so now I get VPC as a part of the subscription. So I'm paying twice.
Thanks,
Leabre
MS Support only? (Score:3, Funny)
Linux support (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Linux support (Score:5, Informative)
Did you even bother to finnish reading the Slashdot story? It says: "They may still work, they just aren't supported."
So yes Linus still works, at least to some extent. It is NO LONGER SUPPORTED. It may fail in some way, and don't expect any help when you trip over some way in which does fail. It will most likely not work at all with in a future version, it may even fail after applying the next bugfix/patch.
You cannot safely continue using Virtual PC for Linux, BSD, Netware, or Solaris. Merely applying a patch becomes a game of russian roulette. Not only might it kill the system outright, it could silently cause curruption. Unknown silent curruption is often far more damaging than outright failure.
-
Re:Linux support (Score:5, Funny)
Of course he still works, just not at Transmeta. And what are you doing calling Linus "it"? How dehumanizing. Also, I (and many other fans of Open Source) still support him!
Re:Linux support (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Linux support (Score:5, Funny)
Did you even bother to finnish reading
Coincidence? I think not. He has it out for Linus.
Re:Linux support (Score:3, Insightful)
The first thing we noticed was the removal of Linux, BSD, Netware and Solaris from the Guest Operating System Wizard list, which was bound to happen to Virtual PC in the hands of Microsoft.
Re:Linux support (Score:2)
I'm sure.... (Score:3, Insightful)
but I am in a captain obvious moment right now.
Inform the judge (Score:3, Insightful)
The real reason why Microsoft bought this product: (Score:4, Insightful)
Or maybe they just wanted to kill a nice migration tool. Why would they do that?
Microsoft's concept of "choice" is like the "managed democracy" of Putin's Russia.
Re:The real reason why Microsoft bought this produ (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The real reason why Microsoft bought this produ (Score:2, Interesting)
I think they also need an x86 emulator for Itanium systems, but I'm not sure if they are going to use Virtual PC or something else.
Re:The real reason why Microsoft bought this produ (Score:3, Insightful)
If you can't beat them, eat them (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:If you can't beat them, eat them (Score:2)
Re:If you can't beat them, eat them (Score:3, Informative)
In the case of Bungie and Halo it wasn't that the ports got behind. Halo's primary platform was the Mac, work on the PC version was also ongoing but not as far along. When MS bought Bungie effectively all development work stopped on the PC and Mac and they ported it to X-Box and finished development there.
So much was planned for th
Migration (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft Virtual PC is a powerful software virtualization solution that allows you to run multiple PC-based operating systems simultaneously on one workstation, providing a safety net to maintain compatibility with legacy applications while you migrate to a new operating system.
After saying that, it would be kinda embarrassing to mention that it supports Linux.
VMware? (Score:2)
Just a thought.
Re:VMware? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:VMware? (Score:2)
nope (Score:2)
Boch runs in OS X, but it's rather slow without the plex86 extensions that are X86-specific.
Re:VMware? (Score:3, Funny)
Rus
Can you say "antitrust settlement" (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Can you say "antitrust settlement" (Score:2)
Re:Can you say "antitrust settlement" (Score:2)
Never thought I would see this on a Microsoft site (Score:5, Interesting)
Are the guys at MS indirectly saying that Windows is not stable? Seems they could be finally saying it!
Also, if Virtual PC supports Mac OSX, couldn't it also support some of the BSDs since OSX has at least some BSD components underneath?
Re:Never thought I would see this on a Microsoft s (Score:3, Insightful)
Are the guys at MS indirectly saying that Windows is not stable?
No, like the guys at Apple, they're saying OS X is more stable than Mac OS (9 and lower).
Re:Never thought I would see this on a Microsoft s (Score:3, Informative)
Like another commenter said... it could be a Carbon app which BSD doesn't have.
BSD ALSO doesn't have a Quartz windowing environment. The app is not X11 so you maybe could run it but not see anything displayed. It also probably requires many Apple runtime libraries.
Re:Never thought I would see this on a Microsoft s (Score:2)
Re:Never thought I would see this on a Microsoft s (Score:3, Insightful)
MS is constantly saying that Windows is not stable. They call every current-minus-one release the worst POS on the planet when they come out with the current release.
this is interesting (Score:3, Informative)
I think a lot of /.ers are collectively saying, "I told you so."
What the actually title for this story should be.. (Score:2)
very strange indeed. (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's think about this for a moment.
It's obvious the MS has started treating Linux as a serious competitor. For most people, Linux doesn't offer everything you need... there's a great deal of commercial content-creation software that only exists for windows or mac, that Linux cannot now, and probably will not for a long time, be able to touch.
So here's a product, that allows your customers to go ahead and run the competitor's software too, and all without you losing a cent in OS or Software revenue... Why not let it continue to work?
Re:very strange indeed. (Score:2)
Why not? Because when users have more opportunity to run Linux, regardless of the current circumstances, Linux software can gain more support in the future. The problem with Linux so far is that its a very specialized operating system compared to the breadth and abundance of software for Windows. The developer
Why bother!! (Score:2)
Are they thinking that if they leave Linux support in, people who perhaps don't want to risk deleting partitions or something might 'try' Linux out and maybe even like it? Sheesh.
Isn't it just cutting your nose off to spite your face?
Oh.. and what will happen when you try and boot a Linux CD on this now anyway? As it is just supposed to be a Virtual PC ala VMWare, will it just crash the kerne
Re:Why bother!! (Score:3, Insightful)
When Microsoft dropped their participation in the joint IBM-MS OS/2 project, they didn't just stop developing for OS/2, they killed all of their OS/2 products, ripped out existing support for OS/2 from all of their development tools, made gratuitous changes to Windows 3.1 to break Win-OS/2, and started using DOS extenders that were fundamentally incompatible with OS/2.
Eddy the Prophet is back. (Score:4, Interesting)
MS removes features in beta, release it and gauge reaction. If highly negative, say "That was only a beta" and add the support back. If no reaction, then go ahead with plan.
The prophet has spoken.
Anyone notice this? (Score:5, Funny)
Q. Why is there a delay between the end of sales for Connectix Virtual PC for Windows and the start of sales for the Microsoft version of Virtual PC?
A. Development work takes time, and we want to ensure a quality product for customers. Much of our development focus is on improving the security of the product so that it meets stringent Microsoft standards.
Mac Compatible? (Score:3, Insightful)
The biggest question--I'm assuming that VPC still sells better to Mac users than Win users, anybody know?--is whether VPC 2004 will run on G5s. These screenshots are apparently of a VPC for Win build.
I'm guessing no--VPC for the G5 is apparently going to be a huge undertaking. It remains to be seen if MSFT is willing to do it at all.
Do people really buy this for Win? Why on earth? If you have XP would you want to install a virtual 2000 or 98? Maybe for development reasons? Maybe for Linux--but now even that is deprecated. What's MSFT's strategy for VPC? Could it be that they just wanted to make it that much harder for Mac users to interoperate, or is that simply tin-foil hat reasoning?
Re:Mac Compatible? (Score:3, Informative)
I'm actually very impressed with VPC. It is a very slick piece of software; only problem is that it is slow as dirt...:) (no surprise there)
The G5 doesn't support little endian mode (Score:4, Informative)
Am I missing the point? (Score:2, Insightful)
This is the first step to killing VMware (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This is the first step to killing VMware (Score:4, Troll)
Another interesting point is that Windows XP running on Linux via VMWare is defanged somewhat security-wise. I only need to use IE inside the VM for Windows Update, for all other browsing and email its on the native Linux OS, which is prettier than XP anyway with KDE. The
If you have legacy apps in Windows, VMware is the answer, the parent could easily be right.
VMware Buyout (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder how much support for this would exist within the OSS community?
vmware ESX supports linux (Score:2)
This is the last straw. (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been boycotting Microsoft for some time due to their dishonest, FRAUDULENT and unseemly activities.
But this pisses me off. Not that I use VPC much, but I do have a licensed copy.
No more.
I am now going to Pirate VPC and do my best to make sure pirated copies of VPC show up on as many forums and distribution points as I can find.
I've had it with Microsoft extorting money from schools for Windows licenses for every Mac they have. I've had it with Microsoft spreading lies about its competitors. I've had it with the Justice department going after MS for stupid anti-trust when straight Fraud and Theft charges are just as appropriate. And I've had it with the low moral, arrogant, incompetant Microsoft employees that are responsible for the Seattle half of the dotcom bust with their poorly run (and no longer running) companies.
I'm a Mac user, and I just became a Microsoft enemy. I believed that this was a free market and Micrisoft was allowed to compete, and anyone who bougth their stuff was just a fool. But this is it. This isn't a criminal activity-- they can make their software fail to run Linux and suck a little more... but buying the only x86 Emulator on the market and then hobbling it just pisses me off. ITs not enough that they have %90 market share-- no, they have to piss all over us.
Well. That's it. This means war.
Re:This is the last straw. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:This is the last straw. (Score:2)
Re:This is the last straw. (Score:2)
In fact, I expect Apple will come out with something like that in the next year or so.
But at this point, there is no competitor to VPC, that I know of.
Virtual Linux Machine (Score:2)
Re:Virtual Linux Machine (Score:5, Interesting)
If you know what you're doing, he would probably appreciate the help. If not, don't overwhelm Samuel with "ooh, I heard you're gonna do this! whenwhenwhenIWANTITNOWGIMMEGIMME!" This is open source, and he's contributing to the community, so be nice to him, he's doing you a favor by trying at all.
BSD (Score:2)
Rus
PC means Windows (Score:2)
It's kinda like the old "Mac vs. IBM" mindset, I guess. There are still Mac people who refer to it as IBM, which I find very cute.
Just use VMWare. It's better than VirtualPC anyway.
Longhorn pre-beta1 out in November!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
See
http://www.winnetmag.com/Article/Ar t icleID/40618/4 0618.html
There is longhornblogs.com site where some guys from MS are doing some weird stuff: they are actually acting nice, asking everyone to be as hard on them as possible, so they can make a better product.
See blog titled "How to hate Microsoft" written by one of their employees.
http://longhornblogs.com/scobleizer/posts/345.as px
Giving pre-beta1 out for all to see,
Huh? (Score:2)
Windows however, cannot run natively on a mac, NT3/4 used to have a ppc version available, but i dont think that ev
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Duh.
flamebait (Score:2)
Can the Opteron run 32-bit virtual machines? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hosting Linux on Windows makes Linux look bad (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps in the long run, Microsoft is doing Linux a favour.
downloaded it, linux support still in there. (Score:5, Insightful)
You can download the trial from microsoft, and it still has options for running all the fun stuff (AKA linux, solaris, BSD). So they pulled the support. Big deal! The whole net is our support!
Look, any simulated X86 architecture that runs windows will by default run linux.
It's what we've been doing all along, right?
Devil's advocate (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft should not be allowed to purposefully interfere with competitor's products, but they should not be forced to purposefully support said products.
Kernel developers (Score:2, Insightful)
Emulation or virtualization is useful to kernel developers. It lets them test changes to a kernel without having to send it to a second machine all the time.
Re:It's not the end of the world... (Score:4, Insightful)
All this begs the question (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's not the end of the world... (Score:4, Insightful)
For those of us who remember Windows 3.11 and DR-DOS, the question that comes to mind is "Really?? For how much longer?"
Try VMware on a mac (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesnt of course..
For those with a Mac it *is* a big deal. Unless all you want to run is VMwindows.
But this is not suprising nor unacceptable, what is in it for Microsoft to support the competition? Nothing.....
Re:Try VMware on a mac (Score:2)
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is compliance with the anti-trust slap to the wrist, I mean the anti-trust settlement.
Bochs isnt ready for prime time (Score:3, Informative)
Its a great project and its a lot of work, but isnt 'quite there', yet...
So i still use VMware personally..
Re:Bochs isnt ready for prime time (Score:3, Insightful)
While I agree with it not being quite "their" yet, understand the slow part is becasue its meant to be a real honest to goodness emulator. This means that no instructions run natively. So I don't see it getting any faster. Thank ${DIETY} for Moores law. Now their is perhaps the possbility of speed improvements, and they would be helpful, but remember that the bochs people are more concerned with being able to intercept singnals and pa
Re:Try VMware on a mac (Score:5, Interesting)
I configured my DLink DWL 900AP (wireless accesspoint) using Virtual PC. Plugged the USB adapter into my Mac, started VPC and installed software. All done.
And of course it's a bit slower than VMWare, it has to emulate the CPU, not just work as an API.
I dont require people to like Apple, but i find it really amusing when people make things up just to whine...
Re:Try VMware on a mac (Score:3, Insightful)
And you give people advice for a living?
Re:It's not the end of the world... (Score:2, Informative)
But then again, $300 for an unlimited number of PC's, what a bargain.
Re:What? You can't code? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a stupid statement. I wish people would stop using it.
Just because you are hungry or have an exquisite palate does not make you a good cook/chef.
There's already tons of crap code out there (BIND, sendmail etc).
Where people could help is with money. Even if they can't code, they may have other valuable skills and earn money with them. They can use that money to encourage people with the relevant coding skills to code.
There are many many other ways to help too.
Re:No big issue (Score:3, Insightful)
I do. I use the PC version to run Solaris x86 and various Linux installs. I actually don't have a Windows install under Virtual PC at the moment, though I have used them in the past.
For example, I'm currently experimenting with a migration from Cobalt's Linux (killed by Sun) to Debian. I'm doing this by getting a base install of Debian ready under VPC, then making a
VMWare (Score:2)
The people that have the most cause for concern are the ones using VPC on the Mac to test web development on the Windows platform. Sure it's about as fast as molasses in winter, but it doesn't need to be fast as most of what you are looking for is layout issues.
If MS decides to scrap or cripple VPC for the Mac I will have to use my x86 machione for more than games I guess.
Re:VMWare (Score:2)
This is especially important if you want to play old DOS games... everything works perfectly with Virtual PC, including the sound. I couldn't get OS/2 to install under VMWare, and DOS support was very limited if I recalll. Its been a while.
Re:So You Mean.. (Score:2)
Re:So You Mean.. (Score:2)
Re:Next Headline..... (Score:2)
Re:Red Box? (Score:4, Informative)
The Blue Box, in fact, existed as part of OSX server [arstechnica.com]. Before Jobs closed off the Rhapsody on Intel product, the Red Box would have let users run Win32 apps, The Blue Box later became the TrueBlueEnvironment, and the Yellow Box became Cocoa.