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The Almighty Buck

Dot ComBack, Or More Of The Same? 244

adamsmith_uk writes "The FT features Wall Street's renewed love affair with dotcom stocks on Monday with the latest in a $6bn string of acquisitions that has helped set light to the once-defunct online commerce sector. Could this be the signs of the tech ComBack ?" But hold onto your hopes; ekarjala writes "According to this CNet article, a recent survey by theInformation Technology Association of America indicates that IT hiring in the US is expected to remain flat or decline slightly over the course of 2003. The main drivers are lack of demand for IT products/services and outsourcing IT functions offshore."
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Dot ComBack, Or More Of The Same?

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  • by BHearsum ( 325814 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:31PM (#5886097) Homepage
    Who fails to see how a buncha people buying/selling shares will determine if a company sells things or not?
    • You don't seem to realize that that wasn't what the .com bubble was all about. It burst because there WASN'T stuff being sold (or at least, not sold properly). It was all lies and hype, and buying/selling of stock to go along with it.

      Therefore a 'ComBack' of that would be with people buying and selling stock. It doesn't matter if the company sells stuff or not :)
    • Indeed. Buying/selling shares only reflects others' opinions about that company's prospects.

      One must consider:

      1. Why are they in a position to consider prospects? If they are educated, have some insight and idean, they probably do have a good idea.

      2. Do they have any conflicting interests?

      3. In the long run they will be shown out, almost. The short run can determine the long run (e.g., restrict capital raising thus preventing a company's growth), and the long run can never truely be achieved is pe
    • by Boss, Pointy Haired ( 537010 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:52PM (#5886266)
      Whenever a "quantum leap" in communications technology takes place, economies suffer until the market learns to adapt to this new communications technology and the speed with which information can now be disseminated.

      It happened with the advent of the Railroad, and it happened again with the advent of the Internet.

      The problem is the time between news breaking and a market reaction. Thanks to the Internet, it is now incredibly small, and in many cases negative, and that creates difficult conditions for companies to work in.

      This will be the case until market forces figure out how to operate a stable economy under these new conditions. This will happen "naturally", it won't require any one person or body to anything in particular.
  • Remember.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Metallic Matty ( 579124 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:31PM (#5886105)
    Its not a comeback for some, just some more growth: Not all those DotComs were DotBombs. Look at Ebay, quite possibly one of the most successful internet businesses ever.
    • Re:Remember.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bobbozzo ( 622815 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:42PM (#5886201)
      Look at Ebay, quite possibly one of the most successful internet businesses ever.

      Unfortunately, even now, it's one of the VERY FEW that are making a profit.

      Amazon is still struggling to break even.

      The sad fact is the huge majority were bombs.

      • Re:Remember.. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Blaine Hilton ( 626259 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @07:00PM (#5886319) Homepage
        "majority were bombs"

        This is very true, but the problem was exaggerated by investors that were too gung over "dot com hype" to carefully look at the financials that they would have done with any other sector.

        • Re:Remember.. (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Happy go Lucky ( 127957 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @09:08PM (#5887154)
          This is very true, but the problem was exaggerated by investors that were too gung over "dot com hype" to carefully look at the financials that they would have done with any other sector.

          Unwise investments weren't limited to the dot bombs.

          Look at energy, for instance: Enron. I'm no accountant, but I can usually read a balance sheet. Theirs was written with the intent to conceal a whole mess of liabilities and inflate the stock price. That's exactly why Arthur Andersen is in a boatload of trouble and a bunch of their execs are facing criminal penalties.

          And the analysts and professional investors should be able to read understand this stuff. They SHOULD have been able to see a company with a very badly mangled balance sheet, and recognize that a company not forthcoming about its financial situation probably has ample reason to lie or at least obfuscate.

          Look at telecoms. How many other people here watched Qwest go tits-up? And being a Qwest customer, the notion of seeing Nacchio and Anschutz in Canon City married to the self-respecting armed robber with the most cigarettes doesn't offend me as much as it probably should.

          It wasn't just techs. There were plenty of other sectors in which investors didn't do the due diligence.

        • The problem was that during the boom, there weren't any reasonable financials to look at. Many of these ventures were speculative plays, and investors were taking a big risk while hoping for a big payoff. While some have survived, like eBay, Yahoo, and Amazon, others flamed out spectacularly (, etc.). But I don't think that the survivor's financials were necessarily more legitimate - it's that they executed their business plan and won the race...
    • ebay is doing ok because they used stock holder money to destroy virtually every small book store in the US by selling at a loss for so long. The result is that now in small towns, there is no place to buy any books except online or at the local Wal-mart which may be an hour away.
      • Are you talking about instead of Ebay? And in any case who cares? The result is cheaper books. I'm not willing to pay more just to keep some inefficient mom and pop in business.
        • Re:Remember.. (Score:4, Insightful)

          by knobmaker ( 523595 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @10:56PM (#5887838) Homepage Journal
          I'm not willing to pay more just to keep some inefficient mom and pop in business.

          It's not because they're inefficient that they can't compete on price. It's because they don't buy as many books as Walmart or even Borders and the other chain bookstores, and therefore they can't force the publishers to give them the same discounts the chains get.

          Still, some folks would prefer the independent bookstores to stay in business for reasons of self-interest, and so we're willing to pay a little more for our books. Among those reasons: ambiance-- if you spend any time at bookstores, you'd like the experience to be as pleasant as possible, selection-- the chain bookstores seem to have a lot of books, but they buy books based primarily on which books sell the greatest numbers, unlike small specialty shops that carry a wider selection in their area of interest, and availability of small press titles-- you won't find small press books in the chain stores.

          Finally, if your interests are primarily financial, reflect on the fact that mom and pop won't be able to buy your products if they go out of business. True, their store will be replaced by a chain store, with lots of minimum wageslaves-- but are those your best customers? And the profits from that chain will go elsewhere and won't be spent in your community.

  • US != The world (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MoonBuggy ( 611105 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:32PM (#5886107) Journal
    IT hiring in the US is expected to remain flat or decline slightly

    Just because people are not being hired in the US does not neccesarily mean the industry itself is going downhill. I know the US is a large chunk, but the IT industry could stage a comeback in the rest of the world while staying flat in the US, couldn't it?
    • Re:US != The world (Score:5, Informative)

      by Uber Banker ( 655221 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:36PM (#5886152)
      Exactly. The summary stated "outsourcing IT functions offshore".

      And why not outsource offshore? If a product is homogenous enough to outsource, its up to the individual to use their privilaged position to create as unique and innovative product/service as possible instead of bitching their job is not protected (against others who could probably do it better).

      • Re:US != The world (Score:4, Informative)

        by letxa2000 ( 215841 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:44PM (#5886215)
        Funny, I just read today [] that things are going to the crapper in India, too.

        I've believed for some time that "outsourcing offshore" is more an excuse to explain the current situation rather than a real cause. Articles such as the one I just cited only support my belief.

        • Re:US != The world (Score:5, Interesting)

          by ShawnDoc ( 572959 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @07:01PM (#5886331) Homepage
          Its going to crap in India because for the longest time India was *the* place to go to outsource software development. Now other "3rd World" countries are catching up when it comes to programming skills, and many of the contracts that once would have gone to India are now going to Vietnam or China.

          I have a friend who recently went from having a huge office full of programmers to leasing a small amount of office space at another company for him and the other principles as all of the "real" programming is now being done in Vietnam.

          • Re:US != The world (Score:5, Insightful)

            by letxa2000 ( 215841 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @07:43PM (#5886605)
            I have a friend who recently went from having a huge office full of programmers to leasing a small amount of office space at another company for him and the other principles as all of the "real" programming is now being done in Vietnam.

            Get back to me in a year and let me know how it went. The two cases of outsourcing overseas I know of first-hand were a total money pit. One of them they finally cancelled the whole thing after throwing $2 million towards India. They eventually did the logical thing: Wrote the damn thing themselves.

            Vietnam? Like I said, let me know how it goes.

      • By outsourcing, the money that is supposed to trickle down back into our economy is leaving. Bush gave huge tax cuts to corporations in the hope they would hire more people. They are just pocketing or using the money to cut our services and hire foreigners.

        136 billion being outsourced is nothing to sneeze at. Especially if your out of work.

        If you lose your job from a cheap third world laborer your opinion will change quickly. The only reason companies are doing this is because they want to take advantage
    • Re:US != The world (Score:2, Interesting)

      by AceM2 ( 655504 )
      It could, but it won't. The industry has nothing new to sell, you have to have something people want and are able to buy to be successful. This was the major problem with the original IT burst in my opinion.. Rather, why it crashed.. Anyway, they're mostly hiring people in other countries where they don't have to pay them shit (Or else they'd be hiring right here where they're selling a huge majority of their products).. This isn't the rule, just a thought, but it seems to me that IT-oriented people b
  • by nother_nix_hacker ( 596961 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:32PM (#5886110)
    I'm just about to graduate. This may have come at just the right time for me. I thought McDonalds might be looking at a new employee for a while! :)
    • by Timesprout ( 579035 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:39PM (#5886182)
      Dear Nother

      We have become increasingly concerned with your lack of committment to the Fast Food Industry. We feel your desire to become a geek rather than concentrating on your McDonalds smile and practising your "would you like fries with that" indicate you may not be the best candidate for us. Unfortunately after seeing your post on Slashdot we therefore have choosen not to continue with your application.

      Best Regards
      Human Resources

  • It's the stink of rotten deals on Wall Street, still thick in the air. New stories of other rotten deals are coming out all the time. No, thanks. I'll invest my time and money in something tangible, like precious metals.

    Beer prize bungle is hard to swallow []

    • Got some shares in a can't-miss gold mine (or was it silver?) I can let you have, cheap!
      • I don't see where in my post I mentioned 'shares'. Or is that a take off of Mark Twain? No, I'm pretty sure I meant something I can carry and use, like gold coins and gemstones. Shares are useful as buttwipe and starting fires, but other than that I don't see the value. Kinda like printing your own money, if it isn't backed by anything but faith (as is the U.S. dollar) then the value is whatever you can convince others it is. And that's the reason wall st. tries so hard to convince people that buying stock
  • Employment lags (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PD ( 9577 ) * <> on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:34PM (#5886130) Homepage Journal
    Even if the economy starts growing faster, it'll still be a while before companies start hiring. That's usually the last thing that gets better after growth resumes. Even now there are signs that things are getting better, but there's still a hell of a lot of people without work. That sucks. I didn't work between August and December of 2001, and that was bad enough.
    • Re:Employment lags (Score:5, Interesting)

      by _PimpDaddy7_ ( 415866 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @08:08PM (#5886800)
      That's very correct. The labor market really lags the economy. Sad to say, but that's how it goes. I was unemployed from March 02 to Jan 03. It's a very bad market. What I saw was very SPECIFIC skills companies wanted. If you didn't have A,B, and C, and I mean all three, they wouldn't even look at you. But, someone with good experience(I have 6+ years) could easily pick it up. Everyone agreed on this, but the hiring managers. Regardless, they left the requisite open. I've seen job openings STILL open since March 2002.

      And now, I have good sources telling me companies are putting out FAKE open positions to make it look that they are busy.
      • Oh, absolutely. I've been saying this for a while. Here in St. Louis, Missouri - you can find a pretty good-sized list of "I.T. job openings" in the Post Dispatch (or on their web site, if you prefer).

        Many of these are from the same company (which I'll refrain from naming) that apparently has a policy of collecting up resumes into an H.R. database well in advance of actually having the advertised openings available. The listings aren't exactly "fake". They're simply for positions they coul
      • >I was unemployed from March 02 to Jan 03.

        I'm interested in how you came through that.
        Where did you live? How exactly?

        That would be enough time that for me, I would seriosly be considering going TO India, Mexico, or Africa. Maybe I can have food and shelter in return for teaching English or something.
  • Oh yeah? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ribo99 ( 71160 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:35PM (#5886136) Homepage Journal
    Make up your mind people [].

    Just pointing out the humor of two (sorta) contridictory stories here on /. Nothing to see, move along :)

    OK it's a boring day
  • LNUX (Score:3, Insightful)

    by utahjazz ( 177190 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:38PM (#5886166)
    Looks like someone's got their eyes on Slashdot [].
    Up 22% today...Hmmmm.

    (Yes that's right, Slashdot's ticker symbol is LNUX)
  • by GC ( 19160 ) <> on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:38PM (#5886169)
    I used to work for what could be termed a .com company that is listed on the NASDAQ.

    I got made redundant with 2000 or so shares which I still happen to keep. Those shares have risen 80% or so since I left the company late last year.

    I realise that I can't place my experience as the norm, but it is at least one example of a company recovering and nearly reaching profitability.

    Overall, in my view, the companies that have thus far survived the crash of the .com boom are probably more likely to survive in the future as they have had to re-work their business plans and be more conservative about their growth prospects and, as such, not leading (misleading) the market makers into over-valuing their stock. This then generates these companies some respect and their stock rises.

    Go figure :-)
    • > Those shares have risen 80% or so since I left the company late last year ... but it is at least one example of a company recovering and nearly reaching profitability.

      Yep, sounds like history is repeating itself...

  • by theoddball ( 665938 ) <> on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:39PM (#5886178)
    ...they've been here for years.


    Seriously, it's a matter of stocks getting back to realistic values. Investors are taking a look, and seeing a realistic chance for profit--so they're returning, albeit cautiously. Where there's money, the market will follow, eventually.

  • by faust2097 ( 137829 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:41PM (#5886193)
    There's a new group of companies that are doing a lot of the same things as the original dotcoms did, they're just not hiring 100 people to implement online want ads or make an invitation web page. A small amount of individual angel investors are willing to sink a couple hundred grand into starting a small company now that you need something better than a business plan drawn on a napkin. Most are under 10 people and either profitable or have immediate revenue.

    It's not like 1998-2001 showed that internet-based companies can't be successful, it just showed that you don't need to be a publicly traded company to sell mail-order dog food.
    • good point (Score:4, Insightful)

      by YllabianBitPipe ( 647462 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @07:02PM (#5886336)
      Part of the web revolution was supposed to be low overhead. Guess what, low overhead also means less workers. There's simply no reason, when you're focused on-line, to hire a marketing guru, HR guru, caterer, DJ, masseuse and all that other useless crap the .coms got into. What's being found out is these days you have one guy doing five different jobs and he'll do it, because he's paranoid about getting laid off. Did you know all the cool logos that change every day at Google are done by one person? Back in the day, you would have hired an entire design department, each person earning 70K to do that. Seriously. Times have changed ... for the better, in some ways.
    • Yup, although there are also companies like where I work []. It was formed about 3 years ago (right as the dot-com bubble was heading to the peak) but we actually had a business plan. We didn't do crazy things, and we're now working our asses off towards profitability. Whether or not we make it is up to us, but at least we didn't jump in with bad expectations, and we're in a position where we can actually make it happen.

      Our first CEO has now passed off control to one with more experience growing small c

    • disclaimer: I'm not going to detail WHY Kozmo failed; i'm writing about it from another angle.

      I started out in the tech sector. Unix helpdesk manager was my previous job. After the bubble burst and the WTC went down I quit the desk job and bummed around for a while until I became a bicycle messenger (that's a whole nother story).

      Anyhow, because of my new job, I've met a lot of ex-Kozmo messengers (in Chicago). They talk about how great it was to get tipped (messengers generally don't) and how dangerous i

  • by fadeaway ( 531137 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:42PM (#5886198)
    can be found in my little rant in this thread right here [].
    • Getting a trade is good advice. Since few do it, tradesmen aren't dime-a-dozen.

      For the folks who have already gotten the degree/student loans/pink slip, here [] is a rant I wrote about dealing with unemployment insurance in the US.

    • It depends on who you are and why you are doing this type of work. I like programming.. solving problems.. and implementing stuff.

      I program at home as a hobby. Just got some more source to compile. Hit a milestone. I plan on going to work and programming some more. You mentioned you are 23 (IIRC). I'm a little older and started at an early age.

      In all honesty, if you love to program, the only thing that will affect your opinion is where you work. Some people work in small companies. Some work in la
      • I certianly understand your position. I couldn't ask people like you to not program any more than I could ask an artist not to paint. If it's what you love doing then you're going to do it regardless of employment prospects.

        My post was intended more for the people who got into the field for the money rather than for the love.. and I know that they're out there. A number of my friends who have tech degrees didn't know a thing about computers before hand.. they just knew that tech was (supposedly) where th
    • Don't work for the bureaucratic mess that is government operations!
    • Out of curiousity what trade are you in?

      I tried help desk, pc repair, copier repair, and merchandising.

      I sucked at every one of these jobs except merchandising where I did ok.

      I have a mild form of autism which makes my eye/hand cordination bad and social skills mediocre at best. Many geeks have this supprisingly and studies are underway to prove this.

      Anyway for me this means the only skill I have is my brain. I am going back to school so I can have a job using it.

      My point is your post is a great idea f
      • I'm a Gearcutter, which is more or less a very specialized branch of machining.

        I'm sorry to hear about your condition.. and you're right, it sounds like you're physically not suited for trade work. A passable level of hand eye cordination is required.. for both precision requirements and safety reasons.

        You have to remember, however, that the sterotypical "computer nerd" (physically weak, poor cordination, etc.) is no longer the average tech graduate. Since the mid 90's, more and more "average" people h
    • Just do what you like to do. If you like what you do then chances are you'll work to be better at it. Then happiness and hopefully earning a decent living will come. I think this is especially true in IT. If you don't enjoy constantly reading computer books in your spare time, you may be quickly left in the dust.
  • by Walter Wart ( 181556 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:46PM (#5886230) Homepage
    Back in the day, before globalization, before the demise of family-wage jobs, before the unions were smashed flat there were other possibilities.

    One of the purposes of tariffs and trade agreements, back in the day was to keep jobs from leaving the country.

    But that day is past. The race to the bottom has been enshrined not merely as a matter of current policy but the cornerstone of international law (cf. GATT, NAFTA, WTO and so on). Here in the States most educated White men vote Republican. Most IT people educated White men. If we voted against our best interests we have nobody but ourselves to blame.

    Early on we thought that we would be safe. Steel and textiles might go overseas, but not high-tech. Then semiconductors moved away. And consumer electronics. That's alright, we said, the engineering and design, the programming and the day-to-day business of managing information will stay here. They followed. Because jobs like those are even easier to move - you don't even have to absorb the fixed costs of a factory, just phone lines.

    And the jobs that stayed? Wages are sinking there because we weren't politically active. We let the big employers pervert the H1-B visa program EXPLICITLY to cut our wages and job security.

    The action by Sun employees to fight back against job destruction fell off the screen. Largely because we didn't keep attention on it.

    So look for a recovery in the IT industry. But don't ever look for a recovery in salaries or security. At least not until people pull their heads out and undo the disastrous effects of the Reagan "revolution" and its sequels.

    For a couple good if older references take a look at "America, What Went Wrong" and "America, Who Really Pays the Taxes".
    • Wages are sinking there because we weren't politically active.

      No, wages are sinking because of the same old boring factors of supply and demand. Protectionist measures can mitigate the problem by delaying the inevitable - for example, to give workers time to retrain for a different job. It cannot change the fact that somebody in India or China is willing to do the same job for less money. The work is simply worth less money because of that.

      • No, wages are sinking because of the same old boring factors of supply and demand.

        I know isn't it sad? We have 3 billion people on this planet, and somehow we need to find work for them? We had 100 years of making human labor obsolete through the machinery, now our own brains are becoming obsolete due to computers. What happens in 50 years when the human being as a productive instrument is no longer necessary for anything other than prostitution and food service? What happens if the demand for humans
  • by jrl87 ( 669651 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:47PM (#5886235)
    Lets just pretend that this dotcom come back is really happenning and there is no possibility that it won't.

    Did the rookies and experienced dotcommers learn anything from their experiences or those of others; or, will they do the same thing - make a little money, think they're all that (no offense to all you failed dotcommers) and hire people to do things they could easily do themselves and buy a bunch of equipment they have no need for? Thus putting them into dept which they will never recover from and putting their dotcom on that big server in the sky.
  • Please, No! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Michael_Burton ( 608237 ) <> on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:51PM (#5886256) Homepage

    A few years ago, pundits said anyone who didn't perceive the internet's magical power to mint money "just don't get the internet."

    Shortly before the first dotcom boom went bust, I saw an enthusiastic stock analyst on one of the financial news shows. He defended his extravagant valuations of companies that had never made a profit and had never articulated when or how they intended to start making a profit. Profit and loss statements and P/E ratios were archaic and obsolete relics of the old economy, he said. "Now it's all about branding."

    Who didn't get it?

    It's likely that the bust left some tech stocks undervalued. There may be some bargains to be had. There are undoubtedly opportunities for real businesses that figure out that the interenet, like the telephone company, lets a company communicate with its customers. That doesn't change the fundamental fact that a company still needs to find some way to actually make money.

    (Personally, I don't think we've let all the hot air out of the bubble yet. Time will tell.)

  • by YllabianBitPipe ( 647462 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @06:52PM (#5886263)
    There isn't going to be a second boom like 1999. The collapse took out all the smaller weaker companies and we're pretty much left with the survivors: Amazon, eBay, Yahoo, heck toss Microsoft, AOL, Dell, Apple in there. Now it's just time for the big companies to pick and choose what stragglers that are still left treading water (which, implies they have something worth owning) and buy 'em. We're just going to see the bigger companies get bigger. Sometime in the next century there will be another speculative boom but I'll doubt it'll be web-based. Anybody pumping net stocks today probably lost a crap load the last time 'round and is bitterly trying to make up what they lost ... or they're just dumb.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 05, 2003 @07:08PM (#5886383)
    Now I am all for developing nations... but there is no way my company can compete with $18/h

    Here is the letter...
    Dear Sir / Madam,

    We are pleased to introduce ourselves as software-coders, consultants, programmers and allied services providers, based in India, providing software coding and development services. We already have clients in India, Germany, Switzerland, UK and the UAE to whom we provide the best quality at very low costs as outlined below.


    We provide software services ranging from complete software development of a complete project to providing pure coding services based on a previously analysed and prepared structure. This thus includes the complete spectrum of software development, be it custom or Internet software development. The various software services that we provide are -

    Custom Software Development, Internet / Intranet Software Development and Website Designing and Development Database Maintenance and Handling Testing (Manual) Documentation (Help, Tutorials and Manuals, Demos) Customer Support Services via E-mail and Customer Correspondence Management Representation in India for various purposes


    Software Coding and Development: We offer rates depending on the nature and complexity of the work, but to give an indication we have per man-hour rates varying from US $ 1 to US $ 18. For bulk assignments the rates are worked out accordingly. Generally speaking, the rate for pure coding job is less than a programming job.

    Other Services:
    This depends entirely on the requirements and services required.

    For pure coding assignment, when the program structure is clearly defined and outlined, the lead-time is about 7 days and after that a daily update can be sent.

    Other Services:
    The lead-time and development time depends on the labour involved and complexity of the software project.


    Microsoft Windows 95/98/2000/NT/ XP, RedHat Linux 6.2 and above .

    Programming Languages:
    Java, C/C++, SQL, Basic, Fox Pro, PL/SQL

    Internet/Intranet Technologies:
    TCP/IP, Servlets, Applets, Flash, Shockwave, ActiveX, COM/DCOM, SSL, CORBA

    Java/J2EE Technologies:
    Enterprise JavaBeans, JDBC, AWT, RMI, Servlets, JSP, Swing, JMS, Applets, JNDI, JNI, JavaMediaFramework, JavaSound, JComm, Image handling and processing, JavaMail, JAXP

    Scripting Languages:
    JSP, ASP, CFML, JavaScript, VBScript

    Markup Languages:

    Application Servers:
    BEA WebLogic, Macromedia ColdFusion, MS Internet Information Server, Apache Web Server, IBM Web-Sphere, JBoss, Macromedia JRun

    Application Development:
    Visual Basic, VC++, GCC, Developer 2000, Delphi, Power Builder, MS VJ++ 6.0, Oracle JDeveloper , Borland J.Builder, Sun JDK 1.0.x - 1.4, VisualAge Java

    Web Development:
    Macromedia Dreamweaver, Microsoft FrontPage, Adobe Photoshop, CorelDraw

    DBMS and Database:
    MS SQL Server, ORACLE 7.x-8.1.x, mySQL, Sybase, Informix, MS Access, ODBC, JDBC, PostgreSQL

    GUI Systems:
    Win32 API, MFC, AWT, JFC

    Software Libraries:

    We are sure that you would find these rates very competitive and our services up to the mark. However please let us know if you need any clarification.

    Thanking you in anticipation,

    Yours faithfully,


    beta infosoft services, # 741, Nelson Square, Chhindwara Road, Nagpur , Maharashtra, India 440 013

    • Very interesting. Welcome to the real New World Order. Turns out software coding is a skill which can be easily taken on by developing economies. Skills which earned six figures only a couple of years ago can be bought for $1 per hour. Now that's some unfettered free-market competition for you! LOL.

      • "Skills which earned six figures only a couple of years ago can be bought for $1 per hour."

        I guess that's the theory, but does it hold?

        Can you really get someone who's had university physics, chemistry, calculus, and some experience working in an American corporation for a significant amount of time, for $1/hr?

        Or is there an apples-to-oranges comparison being made somewhere?
  • by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @07:10PM (#5886400) Homepage
    at least according to this Computerworld article [], "Postwar Iraq seen as big potential tech market."

    "Every business-minded person is looking at Iraq after the war because it is a very rich country," said Riad Safar... Iraq's market potential, as it moves to replace out-of-date business and health systems, is bigger than that of many of its neighbors, including Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and perhaps Saudi Arabia....
    The senior official at Kuwait-based systems integrator International Turnkey Systems, said in a telephone interview today that he thinks "it's going to be a huge market."

    And that's just one of a number of articles I've read lately salivating over the prospects of Iraq as a market for American goods.

    Maybe the broadband Internet will be up and running before the water is.
  • by macshune ( 628296 ) on Monday May 05, 2003 @07:53PM (#5886694) Journal
    A few spurts of overvalued acquisitions does not make for a dot.renaissance.

    Also, as mentioned in earlier threads on different stories, there are a few real profit-generating (though I think overvalued) companies (eBay & the like) that have a proven business model and have expressed stable, steady growth.

    People will still be "eBaying", or something like it in 20 years.

    People in 20 years will still go to the grocery store and not buy their groceries online. It's inefficient, and to me represents the sheer economic waste that went along with the dot.bomb.

    And will anyone be paid $100/hour to make crappy webpages ever again? I don't think so.

  • Information Technology Association of America

    Am I the only one who has developed some sort of Pavlovian reflex where I immediately despise any organization named "Blank Blank Association of America"?

    I know, I know, (- a billion, Offtopic), blah, blah, blah...

  • Venture Capitalists aren't giving out chuncks of money to Business Models written on a proverbial napkin.

  • We need a union, or your children are never going to work in IT if you live in the USA. First the production / assembly line jobs went, and now the skilled labor / tech jobs are going to go also. Soon, this will be a country of only owners and janitors. I would love to see a list of companies who outsource their IT jobs, I would boycott them in a second. Proudly.
  • A lot of job hiring and technology is being centered on SPAM right now. Lots of companies are hiring security experts not just to combat hacking but most IT Security job descriptions now include "mail security and continuity"

    What's even more ironic about this boom and kind of scarey to me is the same companies that are producing SPAM security/prevention software are also (a few) producing mass mailing software that tricks sendmail. SPAM advertisers are hiring lots of IT people right now, particularly in T

  • When contemplating the worth of the name "Dot ComBack," I think it's important to remember this quote from [].

  • The next boom... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by MickyJ ( 188652 )
    ...will be when broadband wireless access is universal, very cheap (or free), and "always-on".
    When your phone, PDA, notebook, computer, watch, gameboy, or whatever can instantly access the internet, anytime, anywhere, and at high-speed then the flood gates will open.

    We're not there yet, but it's not far off.
  • ITAA (Score:4, Informative)

    by _Sprocket_ ( 42527 ) on Tuesday May 06, 2003 @12:23AM (#5888337)
    The Information Technology Association of America. The same group that, in the midst of the dot-bomb bloodbath insisted that there was a shortage in available IT labor and lobied for raising caps in H-1B visa allowances. The same group maintaining that there is a current 500,000 worker shortage and expected to champion maintaining the current temporarily increased H-1B visa cap [].
  • by crazyphilman ( 609923 ) on Tuesday May 06, 2003 @11:01AM (#5891112) Journal
    There is only one sure-fire way to make a lot of money online. Only one. Start a porn site with an attractive hook, like for example, a webcam about an actual couple which sets up a voyeur-type experience. You'd have to build a solid membership system, of course, which is difficult for people to pirate/crack, and that would be hard. But it's doable. Also you can probably get kick-backs from all the adult-check registration systems (which you'd need, anyway, to protect yourself from liability). You could set up "special events" like a threesome with a barfly, "viagara experimentation", "Roman Orgy Night", etc. Plus, you could sell DVDs of clips, and syndicate your better content to other adult sites.

    I'd do this in a second if I could figure out a way to arrange for a female partner (either kinky girlfriend or ambitious non-romantic low-inhibition type). But, I'm a slashdotter -- no girlfriend, no prospects, and I haven't been laid in two years. Oh well... But maybe one of you guys will have better luck. ;)

  • by Krieger ( 7750 ) on Tuesday May 06, 2003 @12:00PM (#5891747) Homepage
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned it thus far.

    There are IT jobs that can never be outsourced. Why? Because they require security clearances and those can only be given to US citizens. While they may not pay you top commercial dollar, they will certainly pay you well. However you usually must already have a security clearance, but you can't get a clearance without sponsorship. Chicken and Egg.

    However I believe if you are willing to move, you can find a secure job. Possibly even companies that will sponsor you for clearance. Most likely this will mean that you are working for the government or military, and will have to put up with background checks.

    But it keeps you employed, no?

10.0 times 0.1 is hardly ever 1.0.