Ellison: Linux Will Soon Decimate MS Windows 786
cioxx writes "Speaking to a few-hundred ISVs at an Oracle-sponsored event in New York, Larry Ellison made a bold prediction , also covered in Infoworld, stating: "(Microsoft has) already been killed by one open-source product. Slaughtered, wiped out, taken from market dominance to irrelevance [...]", referring to Apache's displacement of MS IIS server. He continues on with a claim that battle for datacenter dominance is looming with a clear advantage on the side of Open-Source platforms, and desktop would follow once Star Office becomes completely "usable" to compete with MS Office. "And it's going to happen to them again on Linux." Newsforge also has a related article on Oracles ongoing linux efforts.
My girlfriend uses OpenOffice... (Score:5, Informative)
She does so to get a little street credibility with geeks.
My point? If the marketers are going to software like this to get a marketing edge, then there is a chance Ellison is right.
Re:My girlfriend uses OpenOffice... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:My girlfriend uses OpenOffice... (Score:5, Funny)
Well, mine uses VI. Of course when I say "mine" I actually mean my right hand, but as it's my only regular sexual partner these days I think it should qualify as an honourary girlfriend.
My left hand also helps out with VI sometimes, but I try to keep it quiet to avoid making my right hand jealous. Women, eh?
Re:you migh have better luck (Score:5, Funny)
What does decimate mean? (Score:3, Informative)
It does NOT mean:
"Slaughtered, wiped out, taken from market dominance to irrelevance"
chrisd, Get a dictionary.
Re:What does decimate mean? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What does decimate mean? (Score:4, Insightful)
Just as an example, the word car is no longer used to describe a two-wheeled Celtic chariot. That doesn't mean you go around sneering up your nose at all those people who oh-so-incorrectly use car instead of automobile.
Re:What does decimate mean? (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly. And here is the Chambers 21st Century Dictionary definition of decimate:
decimate verb ( decimated, decimating ) to reduce greatly in number; to destroy a large part or number of something. decimation noun. decimator noun.
ETYMOLOGY: 17c in this sense; 16c in historical sense 'to select by lot and execute one in every ten': from Latin decimare to take a tenth person or thing, from decem ten.
Re:What does decimate mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What does decimate mean? (Score:3, Interesting)
"Decimate" goes far beyond the above two examples, because it hasn't even been used to mean "reduce by 10%" in living memory (indeed, once the tradition of killing every
Re:What does decimate mean? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:You utter twat (Score:3, Interesting)
2 questions (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it will be quite a while before StarOffice becomes completely compatible with MS Office - it's in MS's own best interest to keep Office separate just to keep the installed base in place...
Re:2 questions (Score:2)
Re:2 questions (Score:5, Informative)
The point is that Apache domiantes the server world becuase it comes with all commercial Unix boxes. And large companies are happy that this piece of open source that came bundled with AIX or HPUX or Solaris has some kind of formal support and backing (if the Apache project ever looked like folding, HP/Sun/IBM would keep it going).
Only recently are we seeing the real dominace of Linux in ISPs, and that again is partly becuase of IBM and Sun (Cobalt, etc). So I don't think there is any linkage between the uptake of Apache and the corporate uptake of Open Source in general, either on the server or the client.
Re:2 questions (Score:5, Funny)
Hosting apache on windows is like hosting cheerios in beer.
Re:2 questions (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Openoffice (Score:4, Informative)
It's great for 'freezing' things to archive them, of course.
Re:Openoffice (Score:3, Insightful)
Apparently OO v 1.1 (now in beta) is going to have PDF as an output format. This is something MS has always avoided because they want Word's .doc to be the universal format and can't afford to promote PDF. If they have to then users will really have a win on their hands and it'll be due to competition.
TWW
Re:Openoffice (Score:4, Informative)
Apache displacing IIS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Apache displacing IIS? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Apache displacing IIS? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's kinda one of the things that Netscape was hoping to use their proprietary Server/Client features for before Microsoft drove them out of that market. And it's a big revenue area for Web Servers, unlike where Apache does well. Apache excels in the lose-money sector, where Internet sites are scrambling to find a revenue stream to back up their content.
I know, I know, this sounds like Microsoft marketing boilerplate, but it's how things are.
Re:Apache displacing IIS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Apache displacing IIS? (Score:5, Informative)
And the difference between the above and an apache box which also serves up its content by samba is? Each "site" has a samba share with appropriate permissions and then your apps can edit the content and save it back up. Best thing is no passwords prompts once you are logged in properly.
Actually, you have a wrong question. The correct one is: "What is the difference between the above and an apache box running moddav?"
Dav allows website editing directly with Microsoft Office, and it also allows website editing directly with just about anything. It is actually created for that purpose. And it is a lot easier to set up and use than samba.
Re:Apache displacing IIS? (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds silly, but when all you've ever known is the Windows GUI, the idea of editing a text file to make things run sounds scary, no, make that IS scary.
I've long wished that Apache had a credible GUI for Windows, but so far have yet to see one.
Re:Apache displacing IIS? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Apache displacing IIS? (Score:3, Interesting)
With samba shares, it's almost as easy to open a site for editing (\\server\site) but not as intuitive as FrontPage extensions (http://server/site).
Samba shares aren't accessible over the Internet without a VPN. People like editing sites at home the same way as at work.
Previewing in FrontPage works great since you're editing the same place you're browsing. With Samba, the relationship is broken and you must manually preview everything in
Re:Apache displacing IIS? (Score:3, Interesting)
Who's still hiring that kind of cash for such tiny and simple jobs?
Wow, I set something like that up in a couple of days as part of another more important setup. And I'm making less than $150K per year. Did I do it too fast and am I underpaid now?
Or is your statement just flamebait.
Another linux distro you reakon? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Don't forget MS was late to internet (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Don't forget MS was late to internet (Score:4, Insightful)
IIS isn't something that EVERYONE is going to use. It also isn't something that should or could be "integrated" and thus forced on you.
Re:Apache displacing IIS? (Score:3, Informative)
IIS had about a good a chance as anyone. Sure, Apache was early to the market, but MS has billions to pour into pushing it. And, frankly, IIS *did* have sizeable marketshare, although nowhere near what it has on the desktop.
strangely quiet (Score:5, Interesting)
why should the market forces that apply to MS not apply to Oracle?
Build those yachts while the sun shines, Larry!
Re:strangely quiet (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, if I remember correctly, Larry Ellison said something like the following. Database cannot be compromised. It has to be secure and reliable. That's one software that businesses depend on, so database is the last software threatened by opensource such as MySQL and PostgreSQL.
Despite how he views database market, speech and QA were pretty funny (broadcasted at http://www.oracle.com/broadband). I read a couple of those articles a
Re:strangely quiet (Score:3, Interesting)
Like an operating system is not a piece of software on which a business depends on?
Larry should go and read "The Innovator's Dilemma".
Re:strangely quiet (Score:5, Insightful)
At a conservative estimate, MySQL is 25 years behind the state of the art. No, I'm not even kidding or trolling, it's a fact - compare the state of relational databases in the late 70s to where MySQL is now. According to the press release [mysql.com], MySQL last week got features like relational integrity, row level locking, transactions and caching that products like Oracle and DB2 have had, quite literally, for decades. MySQL still does not have subqueries, stored procedures, or procedural constraints. And neither Oracle nor DB2 are standing still, they are continually adding new features. Larry has no need to lose any sleep over MySQL.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:strangely quiet (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree with you. Oracle is the "main frame" of databases. These days you can start developing and deploying with MySQL or Postgres and if the system really needs it you can move to Oracle. Cost savings can be astounding.
Re:strangely quiet (Score:5, Informative)
Yes and the result is that Oracle doesn't even attempt to play in the low end anymore.
Oracle will live a lot longer because while weve gotten the OS down and most of the server software the OSS folks aren't even close to high end in the SQL department.
Mysql is pretty sweet for the low end but chokes all over itself once you start putting it under even moderate write load.
PostgreSQL is better under load but lacks needed features such as mirroring.
Took out the low end? yep! But now when you max out the OSS options your so deep into oracle land it's scarey. My last boss almost had a heart attack when he realised he had grown from needeing the free MySQL to $30 000 oracle.
mySQL Writes (Score:5, Informative)
The solution is to rewrite your applications to use only fast queries, but if you really need to do slow queries it's a genuinely serious problem. I had it for a long time, and it drove people nuts. I eventually discovered how to optimize certain queries and the problem went away, but it is real.
Slashdot doesn't have this problem because the queries it uses are rarely complex. You can do "select x,y,x from messages where thread_id = 10445" all day without it breaking a sweat. But try to do something it can't optimize with indexes and it will die.
My problem was using:
select * from cal where left(date, 10) = '2003-01-01'
instead of
select * from cal where date >= '2003-01-01' and date date_sub('2003-01-01', interval 1 day)
The first can't use indexes and the second can.
During these SELECTs, mySQL locks the tables involved, preventing writes from happening. So one slow query on crucial databases can hang the system.
In the end, I found the problem was pretty easy to work around, but it took forever for me to figure out what it was. Watch out for those date fields!
D
Hammer vs. Nailgun (Score:3, Informative)
When I need to build a house, I'll use a nail gun. Why? Efficiency.
When I need to hang a picture, I'll use a hammer. Why? Simplicity.
The Oracle pundits would have you believe that you need a nail gun for all nailing purposes. The realists know that you use the right tool for the job at hand. Buy a nail gun when you need it.
Re:strangely quiet (Score:4, Insightful)
PostgreSQL isn't bad either but MySQL tends to be the favorite of web developers. They compete with each other and help drive each other forward.
I don't think either MySQL or Postgres are a challenge to Oracle in the data center but as they mature they will be more so. They have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight too so they can mature much faster than products such as Oracle. They are missing features but they are adding those as demand grows or someone is willing to sponsor the addition.
Everything said about Apache vrs IIS and Linux vrs Windows does also apply to MySQL vrs Oracle. It's all a matter of time. I think Oracle may bite the bullet a lot harder than Microsoft though because they are less diversified. Unless of course they open source Oracle and manage to adapt to the change. They have more time to adapt than Microsoft though sense they are more specialized.
Re:strangely quiet (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed. OTOH, you should ask yourself in how many places you really need nothing less than the state of the art. Probably less than the 50% of the total.
My guess is that such percentual is going to shrink as more people become aware of free RDBMS (I'm thinking more about PostgreSQL or SAP DB than MySQL), but Ellison has nothing to worry, since absolute numbers of RDBMS users will go up as well, and some of them are going to need Oracle sooner or later.
In o
Most OSS isn't about state of the art (Score:3, Insightful)
But state of the art isn't what's important with OSS. OSS is about the commodity market and relational databases *are* a commodity now. True, not all the features you need are in both of these databases and it's easy to come up with a feature list where Oracle looks great. That's not the point. When you need a database for a project odds are one of these two (PostgreSQL or MySQL) will give you what you need. A lot of progra
Open Source's Edge: Academia (Score:3, Interesting)
Clearly this will be a major boon for PostgreSQL. Why did she choose that as her platform? Because she can't get access to the source of other DBMSs, of course! (Actually her research group has close enough ties to IBM that she probably could have g
strangely quiet (Score:3, Interesting)
I notice that the Infoworld article is 3 days old, but has not once been linked to from the start page. However, reviews of Microsoft products are, minus any critique of DRM- or Software-as-subscription- issues. Likewise for ZDNet and other sites. BYTE, perhaps, was getting a little too independent in its columns and is no longer available online.
Even with primo product placement and censored product reviews, we're still heading towards a tipping effect where Micr
IIS wiped out, irrelevant... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:IIS wiped out, irrelevant... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:IIS wiped out, irrelevant... (Score:4, Interesting)
For the records, yes, you can uninstall that crap, and MSVC++ will keep working the same, but 95% of people won't bother. And won't even notice when they're hit by the next MS worm.
What can I say. When you can't gain market share through technical superiority...
Re:IIS wiped out, irrelevant... (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, I know several companies who relied a lot on IIS. After the Nimbda incident, they thought of migrating evrything from IIS to Apache. Today, most of their apps rin under Apache.
Future (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Future (Score:5, Interesting)
Is IBM wiped out by Linux? No. Instead, IBM invests #1B to Linux and IBM wants to get rid from AIX in a favor of Linux to be installed on all delivered IBM hardware platforms.
Oracle is already moving from "just DBMS selling" business to selling application and framework suites. So, at some point they will realize that PostgreSQL is much superior than Oracle RDBMS in terms of programmability and in terms of future development (Oracle DBA and developers know know what I am talking about - Oracle RDBMS is in its deadend and it must re-written in order to fix many currently-constantly-regressive bugs).
So, what's gonna happen is Oracle will adapt PostgreSQL as its new-generation ORDBMS (remember RedHat Database?). I saw leaked documens from IBM - they consider same thing regarding DB/2.
Don't worry about replication and other "missed enterprise features" - it's not hard to add them to PostgreSQL and it is not done only because many advanced enterprise users prefer to do it by themself on teir own using their own approach. We did.
Conclusion: Oracle will finilize its shifting from RDBMS production to DB-system/application/framework/IDE production. Larry has already planned it for awhile and it's a matter of time, of a convinient market moment, to announce it.
Re:Future (Score:4, Interesting)
Admittedly, Oracle is big enough and has enough support to be a whole application platform on its own, so it's not going anywhere soon, but then, the same applies to MS. In the meantime, the likes of Firebird/Interbase (which my employer is basing its new enterprise product on), PostgreSQL and SAP DB (already equivalent in functionality to Oracle 7.3, apparently) are all making big strides - let's see if Larry's still banging on about Open Source when three-quarters of his salespeople are coming back with the same story.
-- Yoz
And in other news: (Score:5, Funny)
clients, stupid boxes without a hard disk (predicted by Mr. Oracle from way back).
Does anybody remember those days?
Re:And in other news: (Score:3, Flamebait)
Re:And in other news: (Score:4, Insightful)
What people hated was the lack of GUI capabilities of old terminals. And yes, some people hate not having any control over their "own machine". I fear however there is no place for such people in todays enonomic climate: those are the ones playing all day with windows settings, new programs etc, I think todays CIO shall be happy to get rid of such people.
News just in, (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft says windows will destroy linux,
Oracle says linux will destroy windows
Baath party says republican-guard will crush allies
Washington says guard will be crushed
What's going on? It's almost as if there is some kind of weighting to what people are saying based on the outcome they favour. I just don't understand it.
I think most people realise this... (Score:2)
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Probably (Score:2)
MS is after all things, a survivor. Maybe they will embrace and extend an open model, or just give windows
difference oracle / microsoft? (Score:5, Interesting)
it is great news to read Larry Ellison telling nice words about Open Source Software
I had to deal only remotely with Oracles licensing habbits. Seemed even more complicated than "open license" from MS.
I had to deal closer with Oracles interpretation of SQL-Standards "we don't obey them, we set them"
I had to deal with Oracles "bundled utilities" - documentation-files running across 400 screen pages. Comments like "if you want to change a tipped command, just simply erase it and type it new (decades after GNU readline)Where is the big difference in the companies attitude to Microsoft? Am I to blind to see?
Re:difference oracle / microsoft? (Score:3, Insightful)
In contrast, through bundling and other anti-competitive practices, Microsoft has been able to exploit their desktop OS monopoly to control several other sectors. People have written arguably better operating systems, but Microsoft has managed to set things up such
Mission Accomplished! (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry if I sound underwhelmed, but I think this is just another example of him doing a good job at getting some publicity.
Yeah Apache's winning, on the server side, Linux is winning... but the desktop, if it ever happens, is waaaay into the future.
Microsoft isn't stupid, they won't go down that easy. And Ellison is THAT good at self-promotion.
Hence the XBox (Score:5, Interesting)
MS wants to get people used to having a MS badged device in their home. One that just works, doesn't bluescreen etc, so that people are comfortable with it. They can then lever other services onto the platform; TiVo like capabilites, email, web browsing etc. This XBox follow up will be the hub of a home network.
Sony are aiming for a similar thing with the Playstation line. So far they have a head start on consumer trust.
IIS slaughtered? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:IIS slaughtered? (Score:3, Informative)
In the last 12 months Apacha has 2 miljon more sites while IIS only have 1 miljon more sites.
So even though Micsosoft has a large part of the server market - people do not use them as web server. With Linux ever increasing
Yet another bold prediction from Larry (Score:2, Informative)
Again? Last time he predicted anything, it was the diskless "network computer", that will decimate traditional pc's. That was supposed to happen around 1997. Now that was a bold prediction. Probably as valuable as this one.
Needs some friends (Score:3, Insightful)
* Network Computers
* Netscape
* Sun One
* Java (it's a success, but not so large as Ellison wanted)
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate his support for Linux BUT this guy will say anything to make a buck.
$G
Only Oracle Makes Linux Fast, Reliable, Unbreak... (Score:2)
They say here [oracle.com]:
Why is Apache a success? (Score:5, Interesting)
Other OS products are trying to implement tomorrow what Microsoft did yesterday. You can't beat someone in a race if you're trying to follow in their footsteps.
"Open" not "Star" (Score:5, Informative)
According to the infoworld article and the computerworld article:
not staroffice, as theDisplacement? (Score:2)
I don't have all that much direct evidence, but I do know that my organization is moving to Apache for new web servers. So instead of making new services available through IIS, we're using Apache.
However, we're not tearing down IIS servers proactively. If they're running and reliable and performing a useful service, we're not messing with them. It's just more economical to leave things at status quo when possible.
Our
Sorry, but I don't agree (Score:3, Insightful)
A: God doesn't think he's Larry Ellison
Lets face it- Allison likes to needle MS and make outrageous claim. He can afford to, since he is one of the richest men on Earth. But before we all stand and cheer "MS is dead! Long live Linux!", let's remember that Apache is one of very few open-source projects which can compete with MS products in terms of market share. And you can bet your pants that in any of those areas, including web servers, MS is doing all it can to reverse that situation.
So don't applaud Ellison's high words- they may do your ego good, but what the open-source world needs is better software, better marketing and less fragmentation. We are still a long long way from beating MS, so don't rest on your laurels just yet...
Just my 2 cents worth...
Point and Click (Score:2)
Apart from Comanche I've never seen a GUI for Apache that can offer a good balance of ease of use/functionality. I'm sure there is one out there and if so prehaps Apache should bundle it so they can take on all market
Rus
context (Score:3, Insightful)
remember that Larry Ellison has always made these kind of claims -- but I've yet to see Database-based filesystems or Sun's "dumb-terminal-esque" network computers take off in the mainstream. though supposedly Microsoft is working on the former.
Not what he claimed (Score:5, Interesting)
I do believe that Microsoft's power will fade, due in large part to Office competitors. I can't see how Microsoft can maintain their Office monopoly when they keep rachetting up the price. Even the OEM version, bundled with a new PC, is several hundred dollars. So many people will turn to alternatives, like MS Works. Once many people are running scaled back versions like Works, then some people will start realizing that StarOffice (and others) are better, and even cheaper. Not everyone will switch, but all you need is a critical mass, which will give competitors enough money to reinvest in improving their office suites, allowing them to compete head to head with the full version of Office. Microsoft will have to cut prices for an indefinite period, which will lower profits. Lower profits in the Office division will reduce or eliminate their ability to absorb losses in other divisions, forcing a retreat from other markets. Sure, they have large cash reserves, but you'd be amazed how fast you can blow through billions of dollars when you're forced to compete for the first time in years.
The only thing that's needed, as I see it, is a competitor to Windows. I would love for someone to make Linux into something the average computer user would be comfortable using, but I just don't think it'll ever happen. I'd love for OS X to run on commodity hardware, but I don't think that'll happen either. So I'm not sure that Microsoft will ever lose the desktop OS monopoly. I can always hope though.
I highly doubt that (Score:3, Insightful)
The desktop market is a whole different ballgame; Microsoft software is abundant and currently the only competitor in terms of ease of use is Apple and not the Open Source movement.
My thoughts on linux domination (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux is not ready for the dsesktop. The recent discussion about mozilla incorporating smooth scrolling illustrates a fundamental problem within the linux community. Most *nix users who want to see linux replace windows on the desktop aren't willing to compete with MS in the areas which really matter to a non techie user. Many people here laughed and scorned the screenshots of the recent longhorn builds where you had lots of new UI features, admittedly most of them will probably not amount to anything but the UI does matter.
For a non techie user the choice at the moment is windows which is very easy to use but is prone to crashes amnd viruses, alternatively they have linux which is very difficult to get the hang of when coming from a windows background. Reliability means nothing if the user can't get anything done with linux. I'm no MS fanboy but I do beleive that they have gone in the right direction with the XP interface, and I also don't think you can really argue with the fact that games, multimedia and simple office apps are all easier to use for a non techie user on a windows platform.
Now whether MS dominace is down to a genuinely more instinctive UI or whether people are just more familiar with it (and hence more productive) is down to debate. I'm sure many linux advocates will dismiss the idea that MS's windows UI is "better" that any of linux distos but they are reeally missing the point.
If you want linux on the desktop then linux developers need to compete with MS. This includes making sure there is support for all types of multimedia, improving choice of games, improving window responsiveness, and all the other little MS UI elements that most *nix users would probably consider frivolous.
Re:My thoughts on linux domination (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:My thoughts on linux domination (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's take RedHat8.0. My mom, who is an e-mailer of Proustian proportions, comes to visit. "Can I check my mail?" So I added an account for her on my workstation. She said "So this is Linux?" I got distracted for a second and by time I got back to being instructive she had Mozilla opened and was looking at some silly ass powerpoint some friend sent along in OO. This is a person who calls all technical matters "thingies."
Of course, that's not the majority of users, isn't scientific, yada, yada.... Let's not even get on to Mandrake, which is, by far, the easiest OS install ever. Sure if you have some odd ball hardware, it can get hairy, but it is so much better than a vanilla XP on a Dell laptop.
Re:My thoughts on linux domination (Score:5, Interesting)
The feature list of Linux systems IMHO outdoes Windows XP by far, I especially like the ability to access my home system via my work computer ( Windows XP ) using putty and Cygwin. The stability is profound, the options it give you ( shell, GUI file system, etc. ) stuff Windows into a garbage can. And if you are ( like me ) and are forced to use MS IE at work with no other browsers allowed, its great to have the ability ( as I mentioned earlier in this post ) to be able to run it remotely from my home linux box.
I could go on for hours about what Linux has that Windows XP wish it had ( MPLayer, anyone ? ), but then I would be late for work,
Oopps, time to go, I hope I didn't make any major typos. Enjoy the post, and one more thing, for Gaming use WINE/WINEX. Nuff said.
>>
Domination is not the goal (Score:3, Interesting)
...snip...
If you want linux on the desktop then linux developers need to compete with MS.
My rule of thumb when I don't agree with what is being said is to go to the very beginning, and look for the root assumption being made. Usually the entire argument is being made from one or more basic assumptions.
In this case, I think the assum
Re:My thoughts on linux domination (Score:3, Interesting)
And neither is windows. People have just learned to put up with it.
I'm entirely serious, and this is not a cheap shot at windows. The interface is horrible - if you doubt that, find someone who has no prior experience with computers, sit them down in front of a windows machine, give them zero instructions, and ask them for a few simple tasks ("write an e-mail to this address", "play the metallica
Been there, done that. Original commentary from my mu
Linux already has 'decimated' Windows (Score:5, Informative)
It's the remaining 90% that is at stake
Re:Linux already has 'decimated' Windows (Score:3, Informative)
Language, like software, evolves.
What's not usable? (Score:5, Interesting)
The one steady complaint I hear is "doesn't do a perfect job of opening Microsoft Office formats". THat complaint is, even if true, ridiculous. If OpenOffice.org is to replace MS Office, sure, the path to getting there is easier of people don't have to notice, but eventually the proprietary MS formats would become irrelevant. This isn't a real criticism. Might as well criticise Word for not being able to open all those legacy LaTeX files that scientists and mathemticians have all over the places, huh?
(Not that I consider anything legacy about LaTeX myself... I still think that is definitely the right way to do large and technical documents.)
The only realy complaint that I've got about OOo is the support for animations in Impress. It seems to crash on Flash animations even on computers where I've got the Flash plugin installed... and it seems to depend on the Flash plugin from mozilla, rather than from itself. First, I'd much rather there were an open vector animation format out there for OOo to use, but that's not necessarily OOo's fault; if there is one, it doesn't have widespread acceptance and prominence. But, even beyond that, I haven't figured out how to embed MPEG or similar animations into OOo presentations, nor have I figured out how to get OOo to put its screen to the back so that if I hack in mplayer via a command line script (not the best interface for most people using Impress, but one that works for me), the full screen animation can even be seen.
As far as I'm concerned, solve that issue in Impress, and OOo is way more than anything I'd want out of an office suite like that.
Well, OK, and the equation editor is severely limited. (Only 8 colours?) Plus it's a pain... I speak TeX equations, and am resisting learning a new one. Right now, I usually use TeX and ImageMagick to put equations in my Impress presentations as transparent PNG images.
What are the things that people like Larry Ellison think are missing that make it only "almost" usable?
-Rob
Re:What's not usable? (Score:4, Informative)
Takes 30 seconds to start up on my machine. Does that count?
Re:What's not usable? (Score:5, Interesting)
My only real complaint/problem with OO/SO is as a researcher, I cannot use it. I need to make heavy use of citations and references. OO/SO doesn't do bibliographies and references the way that Lyx can (linux-side) or the way Wordperfect and M$ Word can on the Mac/Doze side (via 3rd party apps like EndNote).
I have been finishing up my dissertation. I HAD to use Lyx because I exclusively use linux and nothing else can handle the references.
If you are a researcher you need to be able to easily navigate your bibliography database(s) to find the references you need and then insert them into your text. At the end, when you produce the printed copy, those references have to be formatted into any of a half-dozen or more styles (ie, "text text text (Thomas and Eckes 1992). text text" or numeric in the order cited OR alphabetically). The reference pages need to be autogenerated to match the style required (journals and thesis offices all have different requirements) by your target. This is simple with Lyx w/bibtex and a bibliography frontend like the excellent pybliographic or using Word with EndNote. This is not really doable with OO/SO.
When/if it becomes possible to do this with OO/SO then I will happily use it instead of Lyx which, while powerful, is a bit too complex and unintuitive for my taste (I LIKE to see what my output will look like BEFORE I generate it in some form. I like seeing how it is formatted as I am working on it, not after the fact).
Other than this critical (for me and any other researcher of any type) shortcoming, OO/SO is quite good...just slow to get up and running. Note to Sun and the OO developers: the modularity that users called for wasn't so much so that they could only install this or that package, ie the wordprocessor OR the spreadsheet, etc, it was in the hopes of speeding the whole thing up. The original monolithic StarOffice was fine with all its components but the problem was that to start just the wordprocessor EVERYTHING else was loaded up too leading to a very slow startup. I don't see that the speed of starting has changed much (if at all) since the components have been "separated".
Re:VBS == Virus Building System (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Does anyone have a list of these comments? (Score:5, Insightful)
I seem to remember something about network computers. As far as I can tell that was the biggest bit of vapor hardware ever. I've never seen anything like that in the enterprise.
Were there any others?
But not to say that I don't think that LInux has a chance. From where I sit I see lots of 4 Way Xeon MP servers coming along that are being at least tested against a Sun box. I've seen them save some companies over $2.0M a year in just hardware maintenance costs alone. So it can be done. However, they're moving Sun out of the datacenter with these, not Microsoft. Mainly because Microsoft was never in that space (yet).
And besides that... (Score:3, Interesting)
I just checked today these 10 top selling books [livcultura.com.br] in IT in one of the largest bookstores here in Brazil.
As you can see, not much for window~1 in there; people are buying books on Java, Linux, Operating Systens. And just one in 10 titles is specic to a M$ product - Excel.
Re: No M$ book sales (Score:3, Insightful)
But what do I know, I haven't used their products for years. I'm sure they have only improved during these years!
Apache vs. IIS in reality - flaw in his premise (Score:5, Informative)
As anyone can clearly see at Netcraft [netcraft.com], IIS never even came *close* to beating Apache, let alone did they have a "virtual monopoly". Back in 1997 when Microsoft and Netscape (now SunONE) were struggling for 10% shares, Apache was already at 40% -- and it only went up from there.
Wishful thinking (Score:3, Interesting)
Frankly I think it's Oracle that's likely to be decimated. I see plenty of signs that linux is widely used and accepted but no signs at all that it is going to displace windows at all.
to get the desktop underway... (Score:3, Interesting)
Wait 'til Oracle users are switching to Postgres! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What I don't like... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a hell of a leap in logic there. Unless you're some kind of super market analyst, complete with surveys, research, etc., I think about all you can say is that more people use Apache now and in the past than those who use IIS. There's not necessarily any connection between IIS/Apache and OSS/non-OSS..
Re:In other news... (Score:4, Informative)
The most ridiculous part of his comments that immediately pointed out how uninformed and idiotic his vitriolic claims are is the statement "They had a virtual monopoly on Web servers, and then they were wiped off the face of the earth. And it's going to happen to them again on Linux.". The Slashdot summary itself points to the Netcraft graph [netcraft.com], but strangely fails to points out the absurdity of Ellison's statement: Microsoft has never had a "virtual monopoly" on web servers. Indeed, Microsoft was an underdog, came into the game after Apache, and has grown to 28%, gaining 5% or so during a period when Apache marketshare has remained constant.
P.S. Ellison is going to have to develop a new angle to push Oracle - When SQL Server trounced them in the clustered results on the TPC-C, Ellison and friends proclaimed that clustered results don't count, getting the TPC to allow one to separate clustered and non-clustered. Well now Microsoft beats Oracle at non-clustered results too [tpc.org]. I'm sure there'll be some new angle to defend against this.