Robocoaster 319
AnswerIs42 writes "Got the announcement thru work email.. but a German company name Kuka has a very unique ride they are demonstrating. It has all the thrills, chills, loops, twists, puke factor of a rollercoaster.. but it only needs 11x12 meters of space! What they did is take a material handling robot (like you would find in any automotive plant) and put 2 seats on it. They also gave it a clever name: Robocoaster. I have a start of a review here, and will post more once I actually go and ride the sucker next month in Detroit. With everything it can do and more... it could start replacing rollercoasters.. perhaps?"
could be safer than rolercoaster (Score:2)
Re:could be safer than rolercoaster (Score:2, Funny)
Re:could be safer than rolercoaster (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:could be safer than rolercoaster (Score:5, Interesting)
Raises 'blue screen of death' to a whole new level of meaning.
As an aside, though, I'm not sure how effective it will be at replacing rollercoasters for a number of reasons.
First, it takes up an 11x12m space for every two people on the ride at one time; a typical rollercoaster will have twenty to forty people on one train, often with more than one train running at one time. The experience of running the coaster with twenty other people is different from being on a ride with at most one other person, and I believe that the group experience is part of the attraction. Certainly the Robocoaster will be hard-put to simulate being thrown upward into a loop as another coaster train roars through the middle of the loop, or diving into a tunnel and popping back up. The experience of weaving around and through scenery and other parts of the coaster track is going to be almost impossible to duplicate.
Second, it does not look as if the Robocoaster will be able to simulate the sustained G forces that you can experience on a rollercoaster. I would expect that the design limits of an industrial robot would not permit swinging riders at speeds sufficient to produce the same G forces that can be attained with a rollercoaster, and the short moment arm of the robot would contribute significantly to disorientation and nausea compared to a standard coaster.
Third, from the design, it's clear that the Robocoaster will require continuous power delivery throughout the duration of the ride; a rollercoaster uses power in the lift, brakes, and thrust sections, with the train running on momentum after it departs the lift. I suspect that the power usage of the Robocoaster will exceed the power usage for running the same number of people through a conventional coaster, which would raise the operating costs. On the other hand, the Robocoaster would not have to worry that brake failure might allow two trains to collide.
Fourth, operating a group of Robocoasters to achieve a similar rider throughput as a conventional coaster will require many times the personnel. With a conventional coaster, a single dispatcher and one attendant per ten passengers is all that is required to man a coaster station, but with several Robocoasters, the ride's footprint is such that a single attendant would only be able to handle passengers at, at most, two units, and safety regulations would limit the number of units that a single dispatcher could supervise.
I don't think that the Robocoaster is necessarily going to be a failure, but there are enough aspects of a conventional coaster that it can't duplicate would appear to put the Robocoaster into a specialty niche in thrill rides, competing with but not directly against conventional coasters.
Re:could be safer than rolercoaster (Score:3, Insightful)
Raises 'blue screen of death' to a whole new level of meaning.
Actually, it doesn't. This "new" level of meaning is brought up every single time human lives and computer controls intersect in a /. story, and isn't actually very new at all.
HTH. HAND!
Re:could be safer than rolercoaster (Score:3, Informative)
What size?!! (Score:5, Funny)
Is this ride only for 2D people. I'm gonna wait until they invent a 3D version.
Re:What size?!! (Score:4, Funny)
The hard part is finding a building with the 100 meters of vertical space... :-)
Re:What size?!! (Score:4, Funny)
I take it you've never heard of this place called 'outside', then.
Somehow I'm not surprised.
Speaking of roller coasters.... (Score:3, Interesting)
They are building a 440 foot coaster [virtualmidway.com] at Cedar Point [cedarpoint.com].
Here's some pictures [virtualmidway.com]
Re:Speaking of roller coasters.... (Score:2)
Re:Speaking of roller coasters.... (Score:2)
are you ignorant or just stupid?
For folks near Disney... (Score:5, Interesting)
But Downtown Disney (Orlando, FL) has a huge arcade with a RollerCoaster simulator in it that I rode.
It was lots of fun, especially since you got to build your own roller coaster and then ride it...
But it wasn't perfect to be sure. Real rollercoasters have wind and that is the one main thing that this was missing.
Re:For folks near Disney... (Score:2)
Re:For folks near Disney... (Score:3, Insightful)
Try this: Close your eyes and lean back in your chair. This generates a force on your back that could, when combined with other visual and audio inputs, be confused by your brain into being acceleration. That part of it I didn't have complaints about. Altough the acceleration does need to be smooth... it won't simulate the aircraft carrier type spring loaded launches that lots of rollercoasters do today.
Re:For folks near Disney... (Score:2)
Unless this thing had a head-up fan mounted on.
Re:For folks near Disney... (Score:3, Interesting)
That only (rather lamely) simulates a 1G acceleration in a different direction than "down". Which really isn't anything like what coasters do. Show me a chair that can simulate free-fall or a 6G turn.
Re:For folks near Disney... (Score:5, Funny)
The 6G turn comes at the end.
Re:For folks near Disney... (Score:2)
Step One: You get into chair.
Step Two: I push you (and said chair out of airplane).
--
Evan
Re:For folks near Disney... (Score:3, Informative)
And it did have wind, courtesy of fans, although not as strong as on a real rollercoaster.
Re:For folks near Disney... (Score:2)
Sounds like Space Mountain, available at your nearest Disney park. That second left turn really messed up my neck the last time I rode it...
Disney Quest (Score:2)
Re:Disney Quest (Score:2, Funny)
About the only reason to go to that area of the park, unless you're into staggeringly overpriced shopping and dining. And, yes, I realize that "staggeringly overpriced" and Disney go together like ham and cheese...
but no reall thrill (Score:5, Insightful)
This looks more like a barf-o-ride. No sense of real vertigo.
Re:but no reall thrill (Score:2)
Re:but no reall thrill (Score:3, Funny)
My wife would think it was pretty fun.
Re:but no reall thrill (Score:5, Interesting)
My wife and I went to Universal Studios Florida, and rode a couple of rides that have little motion (relative to a rollercoaster)
The first was the "Back to the Future" ride. The ride consists of a fake DeLorean on an articulated mount. The car never moved more than 3 feet, but the IMAX-like screen in front of us and the slight motion cues from the small movements of the car were very convincing.
The other ride was "Spider-Man". The basic construction was just a (mostly) flat track with cars on it. The cars would shake and rattle a bit, they could swing around very quickly, and there were other effects (like a flamethrower and water spray) to go along with the action. The main attraction was a series of 3D projected movies. This ride was AWESOME. My wife never managed to keep her eyes open during one particular sequence - she got too queasy (even though we rode the thing 3 times and she knew what was coming
Properly done (with surround video and audio), this can be an amazing ride.
What about... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What about... (Score:2)
Re:What about... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What about... centrifuge (Score:2)
You won't get much in the way of sustained, reduced Gs, but you can short ones, 1 second, by flinging people downward with the arm.
They just need to make sure to put a vomit shield around the device to keep from flinging it into the spectators. I'll bet you could add an imax like projection sphere around it for a more integrated experience. Just make sure you can hose down the screens.
Not as thrilling (Score:2, Insightful)
It is for me at least.
Why the seats?? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why the seats?? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Why the seats?? (Score:2)
Well, that may come too close to the seat of the "IT", which is illegal to buy, sell or own, thanks to the government bail-out of the airlines.
No serious threat here (Score:2, Insightful)
If I had the choice between the Millenium Force and a psuedo-coaster, I'd take the real-deal any time!
Beware... (Score:5, Funny)
This could be the beginning of machines enslaving humans. Instead of killing us, they just grab us two at a time and shake us until we're really confused.
Re:Beware... (Score:2)
G-forces? (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem I have with these sorts of rides is that they don't even come close to a roller coaster experience, for me. No wind (okay, they could solve that with clever ducted fans), but most importantly, no real G-forces. When you go down a steep hill, you feel lighter. When you go around a tight turn, you're glued to your seat. When you go upside down, you're glued to your seat.
Somehow, I suspect that if RoboCoaster turned the car upside down, you'd fall out. Unless they've created a gravity generator.
Re:G-forces? (Score:2, Informative)
They take pieces of vehicles that can was 200 or more pounds and move them about like it was a piece of paper.
Considering the moves that a robot could do as compared to a traditional coaster.. you would get more movement, faster with a robot than with a coaster.
Again, I'll know more about how it works and what it does when they come in for the demo next month.
Re:G-forces? (Score:2)
I would be very sad indeed if this were the future. One of the cool things about amusement parks is the sense of destination; when you walk into a big park like Cedar Point, you get to leave the world behind; you're in a place that was designed for escapism, and the huge, towering multimillion dollar coasters hammer that home in a way a robot in a small block building never could.
If you could buy one of these for a couple of million and throw it in the back of any old arcade, all that would be lost.
I don't think people will buy this as a *replacement* for coasters. Sure, it could be fun in and of itself, but it's not a coaster.
Re:G-forces? (Score:5, Funny)
Or a seatbelt.
Re:G-forces? (Score:3, Funny)
Roller coasters don't have real "G" forces (Score:2)
Roller coasters have "G" forces only in one direction... down. Other forces felt on the ride, the ones that press you into your seat in loops and curves are centrifugal forces created by the curvature of the track... which is easily replicated by the motion of the robot swinging the seat in a circle. Variations on the angle of the chair will reproduce centrifugal force in any direction you want.
These forces are measured in "G's" relative to the gravity of the earth, but they are not gravitational forces.
Re:Roller coasters don't have real "G" forces (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:G-forces? (Score:2)
What would actually be really cool is if they had a ball on an elastic hanging between the seats so you could see what forces the people were under.
Re:G-forces? (Score:3, Funny)
When you go around a tight turn, you're glued to your seat. When you go upside down, you're glued to your seat.
When the ride's really scary, and you've been eating glue, you're glued to your seat....
no sir i dont like it (Score:2, Informative)
*blank stare* (Score:2)
Sounds like these robots need something useful to do, like weld truck parts.
The kids will probably like it though. Hope the code is well-tested, so the arm doesn't do a maximum acceleration to -4.323 Z.
I work with similar robots (Score:2, Interesting)
I am working at a machine automation company, and we work with similar robots. Now, it's time to convince the boss to let me 'borrow' some of these expensive pieces of machinery and 'play'. Knowing how easy (relatively) it is to program these robots I think I could have some fun quite easily.. hmmm.. hmmm..
Can't replace rollercoasters... (Score:2)
It'll probably be at the NAIAS (Score:2)
I assume he's referring to this showing up at the North American International Auto Show [naias.com], but I could be wrong. Anyone have more info (I checked the links) because I'd love to try this thing out.
Smaller venues (Score:2)
Not what I thought it meant... (Score:2, Funny)
I guess the "fake roller coaster" thing is kinda cool too though...
Space matters in Japan (Score:3, Funny)
CRT : LCD
SUV : Compact hybrid
Rollercoaster: Robocoaster
It's all about lack of space, apparently. Although you would think that the Japanese would choose to invest in giant mecha to CRUSH THE GAIJIN COASTERS TO DUST!!!!
(Then again, that might not be polite.)
Re:Space matters in Japan (Score:2)
kinda neat, butt... (Score:2, Flamebait)
When you watch the videos - it just looks like the "riders" were picked up by some giant and get thrashed around.
Other problems:
- Microsoft Windows operating system
- Internet connectivity
all ms jokes aside, here is a machine that has the capability to bash you into the floor with impunity and its got two major security risks: being attached to the internet! and running MS OS.
I can just see it now BANG BANG BANG. bashing the riders into the floor.
It would feel a lot more safe if the thing was placed high enough that the arm would *not* be able to touch the floor ever no matter how it was manipulated.
I would like a few of these to see if you could make an actual robot with six of these as legs and arms.
Those things look really cool.
As an avid roller coaster fan... (Score:3, Interesting)
Uh... (Score:2)
Besides flinging people around in the air, I just can't see the connection here. How would this ever replace a real coaster?
Think about it.
This thing is an arm with a central axis. To simulate forward motion it would have to do this in a circle. At speed it would feel like being in a centrifuge.
The videos show it whipping people in the air. It is neat, but it is not roller coaster like. At all.
-S
Re:Uh... (Score:2)
Two things allow you to realize you are in motion- external references and acceleration.
The first could be taken care of through VR goggles or something; once that is done, acceleration can be simulated by the motion of the arm. Besides how many roller coasters have long straightaways with no vertical or horziontal motion?
Wind (Score:2)
can someone help me with the review? (Score:2, Offtopic)
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Creating your experience (Score:2)
You could develop and fine tune your ride from the coasters web site and show up at the actual ride, input your data and ride away. I imagine the device could be wired directly to the internet and you could logon when in line and pull your config or you could print out a barcode checksum at home of your creation and scan it just before getting on the ride. People could swap barcodes and try each others out and you could vote on a 10 best, it could integrated into Roller Coaster Tycoon or Sim coaster blah blah blah. Hurry, call the patent office...
Is ths 1989? (Score:3, Informative)
Combine it with a VR helmet (Score:2)
With the proper VR setup, you could do lots more than just simulate a coaster. How about controlling a space ship, or flying on a magic carpet to fight against a dragon?
I don't see these things replacing coasters anytime soon.
Virtual Coaster in Vegas (Score:2)
very old news (Score:2)
It was interesting, but while they do a nice job of a simulation, they can't get the g forces right for more than an instant. Without gravity generators (which most of use wearing our protective tinfoil hats know the gub'mint is keeping from us) this will never really replace a real 'coaster.
RTFA (Score:2)
Re:RTFA (Score:2)
Hmm... (Score:5, Interesting)
Instead of a "40 foot" arm, build one with a VERY LARGE arm, with the same degrees-of-freedom (or more). I am thinking something like a 150-200 foot long arm (like a huge, multi-jointed, articulated crane arm).
Such a monster of a machine could be easily built with today's technology (look at coal strip mining machines, for example), would take up less space than a conventional coaster, but most important of all, it could easily simulate forward motion (especially if it was a hybrid cartesian/polar/revolute axis type arm, where the base could move laterally in two perpendicular directions, but the arm could still move in a polar or revolute fashion - anybody who works with robot arms knows what I mean here). The size of the machine would make the riders feel they were riding on a virtual track.
While what I was thinking would use way more space than this machine, it would be a great machine for a themepark...
Absolutely! (Score:2)
I see this mostly as a "parental revenge" device (Score:2)
What they *should* have done is stuck a little fiberglass horsey to the end of the arm. Then when "Little Timmy" just won't quit whining at the Supermarket because he just *has* to ride the pretty little pony -- let him.
I bet he won't do *that* again.
KFG
The real deal (Score:2)
Re:The real deal (Score:2)
These will NOT replace coasters (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no wind in your hair, which detracts greatly from your sense of speed.
You know that you're in a simulation. One of the things that makes Millenium Force such an awesome ride is that it scares the shit out of you on the way up- you ARE 300 ft up. A lot of the suspense that goes with riding a ride is waiting in the line and getting strapped in. What's going to be more effective, walking into a room or strapping yourself into a metal behemoth like http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/inside_park/webc
Though simulators are good at playing games with your inner ear etc, the sensation of being upside-down or highly banked has never felt quite right to me- again, this probably has a lot to do with the fact that throughout the whole ride I know it's not really happening.
This thing works mostly off of visual cues. That's not going to make the "ride" a lot of fun, it's going to make many of it's passengers sick. Sure, coasters can do that too, but since what your eyes think is happening is more or less actually happening (I say that because good Coaster designers will mess with you a bit), I (personally) find getting sick generally happens much less compared to sims.
Finally, riding coasters is a bit of a psychological ordeal. You are conquering your fears/challenging yourself/trying to push yourself in some way. Sims don't really offer this aspect.
Worry not, roller coasters of the world- you are in no danger.
Re:These will NOT replace coasters (Score:2)
Doomed to Failure (Score:4, Insightful)
Why?
They want $1.5mil for one of these.
A ride that can do 24 riders per hour. In a typical situation that would work out to about 250 rides per day.
For $1.5 million.
For comparison, a Huss Top Spin (http://www.hussrides.com/52ClassicTopSpin.htm), which costs roughly the same, takes 40 passengers per ride, and also does flips and what not. Top Spins can, in ideal circumstances, push through upwards of 800 people per hour, withn a figure of 400-500 pph being much more realistic. That means for the same money, they can have a ride that will run through 250 people in 30 minutes, instead of 10 hours. If you were in the position of buying a ride, which would YOU buy with your money?
Let's look at it from the economic angle. Both simulators and Top Spins command an average per-ride of ~$5/passenger. This puts the Robocoaster at $120 per hour. The Top Spin at $2000-$4000. Still having trouble making up your mind?
Remember that rides need operators (Firgure 2 for the Robocoaster, 4 for the Top Spin). Figure employee costs of $10/hr per employee. The Robocoaster is down to $100/hr now. The Top Spin to $1960-$3960. Now figure insurance and power, and maintaince. Those would knock off another $40 or so from the Robocoaster, bringing it down to $50-$60/hour profit., and the Top Spin to roughly $1500-$3000.
Let's figure our hypotetical park is open 12 hours a day, 180 days a year.
That is to say, 2160 hours per year.
Robocoaster: $1.5million. $60/per hour.
Time to profit: 25,000 hours, or almost 12 years.
Top Spin: $2 million. $1500 per hour (We'll take the low end)
Time to profit: 111 days.
Made up your mind yet?
Re:Doomed to Failure (Score:3)
Wow!!! what magical socialist land do you live in?
a "carney" getting $10hr.. wow.. i wanna move there, imagine how much I would make
carney: "Do you want a puke bag with that?"
Not 1.5M (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.kuka.co.uk/NewFiles/pr_dd.html
According to this
http://www.kuka-roboter.de/robocoaster/nofl
they can accomidate 2000 rides per hour.
Of course then you're talking configurations of around 18 to 20 machines, I'd guess, so then you're talking closer to your $2M figure for the TopSpin.
Not ridiculing your opinions, just trying to correct a major error in your calculations.
Re:Doomed to Failure (Score:2)
Re:Doomed to Failure (Score:2)
By this definition... (Score:2)
At least my four-year old thinks so. Wonder if I should start charging admission?
When the bot gets fed up... (Score:2)
Warning: It runs Windows! (Score:5, Insightful)
Theme park?? bah! ARCADE!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Theme park!? hahahahaha, how shortsighted!!!
hmmm (Score:2)
No danger = no sale! (I want the REAL thing!) (Score:2)
How can you be a "risk taker" if there is no risk?
Oh, thats right, I might fall out of the metal box and fall 10 ft
Ohhhhh
Simulators
Also think of it this way
Just my $0.02
Already at the malls (Score:2)
I know they guys that make this thing have a web site (the URL is on their display at the mall), but Google was no help(!) in finding it.
I've been on the robocoaster... (Score:5, Informative)
Home Depot has these... (Score:3, Funny)
They'll know what you want.
I used to work for an industrial robot company... (Score:2)
It was damn tough - it needed to have active feedback, those motors can't be moved by hand, and you need external sensors 'cause the feedback from the current in the motors would only notice if you smacked into metal. And, of course, the programming needed to be perfect. One guy said, "we don't want someone getting their arm broken because somebody forgot to convert to unsigned."
It can probably be made safe, but I'd never ride in one. My trained reflexes won't let me get near a robot without a deadman switch in my hand.
Reduced size...Sell it to Europeans. (Score:2)
Re:Kukie (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Fun, but... (Score:2)
Re:Robotic Bulls (Score:5, Funny)
Yes. There's nothing walmart employees enjoy more than cleaning up children's vomit hurled around the room from the centripetal forces from a spinning robocoaster.
Re:"Simulated" Motion(sickness) (Score:2, Informative)
What is happening in this form of motion sickness is that your eyes are seeing one type of motion, and your ears are feeling another. The conflict between these two makes you sick. This is also a common reason people get sea sick. You feel the boat moving, but the sorroundings you see aren't moving (relative to you, anyway).
As far as this ride goes, if they were to put a movie in front of me and try to simulate a rollarcoaster, I would get sick. If they are just going to spin me around, then I may or may not get sick. It depends on how fast and furious the motion is.
Re:Look at its specifications people - now (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Major Drawback (Score:2)
That being said, the only thing that this has in common with a roller-coaster is that they put coaster in its name. For the category of rides that this really fits into you may be right, 2 people isn't very many and compared to those rides it may have a very good hourly capacity.
I don't know.... (Score:2)
Have the 3 principles of robotics been imprinted in it's brain?
J.
Re:Where in Detroit? (Score:2)