How Warcraft Really Does Wreck Lives 617
An anonymous reader writes "There's a great blog post about how World of Warcraft can ruin lives, it's written by a person that was for a long time a member of the largest council on what is now one of the oldest guilds in the world." This is a story that is very familiar to a lot of folks. I know people who are actively wrecking their lives and risking their jobs by playing too much of a video game.
Broken (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's be frank... (Score:5, Insightful)
Some people gamble, some people cheat on their spouses. Some other people do drugs, and others drink too much. Some people are slackers, some people are workaholics. And yes, some people play video games too much.
Whichever way you look at it, people have a choice. They can stay grounded in reality with minor diversions into fantasy-land (whatever form that fantasy may take) and keep their lives balanced, or they can throw their lives away. Saying that World of Warcraft, The Jerry Springer Show or The Devil made you do it is a cop out.
game X ruins lives: heard this before (Score:5, Insightful)
WoW doesn't wreck lives. (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Breaking update! (Score:5, Insightful)
Stories effectively identical to the post came out when EverQuest was the big thing, came out when MUDS/MUSHES were the big thing, and have probably come out for every liesure activity developed in the history of man.
The only thing surprising about this is that it continues to surprise people when it happens. If you let your life get consumed, guess what, it gets consumed!
How Golf Ruins Lives (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wrecking their lives? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Broken (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:game X ruins lives: heard this before (Score:2, Insightful)
WoW is the most popular MMO as of yet. Alot of people who would normaly not be tempted into these bad behaviors now are simply b/c it is easy to get into, and there are always friends who want you to come play with em.
Now, I am not saying this is WoW's fault, I am simply saying WHY it is so prevelant, it is just that more poeple are playing. Admitedly WoW's game curve is also an addition to the problem that people face. The low levels have alot of rewards that can be gotten relatively quickly. However as you advance it takes longer and longer to get rewards, but it is nice and gradual, so you get ussed to thinking, well, just another 10 mins to finish this quest, well half and hr will let me finish this instance, well I can run this instance in an hr then spend some time crafting, etc etc etc.
btw, refferencing D&D in this is the wrong game, D&D was never said to be something that will ruin your life (unless hanging out with 5 other people on someone's house once or twice a week is a ruin...).
Good post (Score:5, Insightful)
MMORPG's are like being on a treadmill with someone dangling a treat in front of you. Every once in a while you might get a taste, but they will never let you have it because as long as you want what you can't have (perhaps the feeling of 'winning'?) you will keep paying 15 bucks a month to get closer and closer to and end that keeps drifting further away.
Blizzard has made what is arguably the most addictive MMO ever appealing to human nature's greed, and the need to feel accomplished.
Up until last month I was one of those types too. I played WoW EVERY night and every free moment. I would be lying if I said I did not enjoy it.
But a few things intersecting caused me to take a step back.
First was the alpha for the expansion. After a week of playing that I realized all the godly best-on-the-server epic gear my priest had would soon be shit since at level 70 (in some cases earlier) I would get gear at or better than the current gear I had. This basically meant when the expansion came out not only would I have to "grind" out 10 more levels, but from a gear standpoint it would be like re-starting the game.
Secondly, I enrolled in a couple of classes and had some family stuff come up. Between the alpha making me concerned, and real life keeping me busy several nights a week, I have gotten to the point where I do not even feel like logging in most of the time.
Logging in means raiding. Raiding means farming for consumables etc. Farming means work.
It's at this point you begin to realize WoW is like a second job - but one you pay to work at.
Re:game X ruins lives: heard this before (Score:5, Insightful)
D&D requires that you have friends, sit down with them in person (yes, now you can play online, etc), and play for some set amount of time. Usually there's a point where the DM says something like 'I'm going to bed' and everyone stops. It requires that everyone gets together, schedules a time to meet, and that the DM put work in before you start playing.
WoW on the other hand never needs to stop. It plays as long as you want to play, and if you are in a large enough guild, then there are always people around for you to work with. Even without a guild there are people out there looking for a pickup group. MMORPGs exacerbate the situation.
Part of the fun with D&D and any r/l gaming is that you are in a time crunch and know it. How far can we get? Think quick, come up with interesting solutions. Laugh and make. Even if you want to play all night, someone in your group is going to be tired and want to stop, so you all have to stop. MMORPGs take away all the restrictions and really enable you to become 'addicted' in all the ways that you might to something else.
World of Denial (Score:2, Insightful)
He obviously still takes the game seriously, if only by bringing up ad nauseum the fact that he was in some imaginary position of power. This romantic notion that he abandoned some great epic saga seems to give him great rpide, like he made the ultimate sacrifice for some greater good.
He may have left the game, but he's still living in an imaginary world from the looks of it. Although, it's possible his leaving the game could mean the end of the world...
of warcraft.
no endgame (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't play WoW, but I do play Eve-Online, and it's basically the same thing for a lot of people. They've built big and powerful alliances, they control vast in-game resources, and they're deeply involved in all of the political intrigue in the game. But they're stuck at this terrible point where no matter how much they collect, how much territory they control, there's still tons more out there.
Just like many wealthy people in life spend their money trying to procure more wealth, the means and the end have become basically the same thing, watching a few numbers constantly increase. And since there's an infinite supply of higher numbers, there's no final goal to be reached. You end up playing to win a game that can't actually be won. Not because you're unskilled or aren't working hard enough, but because there is no game-mechanic that qualifies as winning.
Yet it still manages to sweep up lots of people, and stings them along until they burn out. But at least with real life wealth, if you eventually realize what's going on and gain some perspective on life, you've probably got a decent pile of money to support you as you move in a new direction. When you burn out on a video game and decide to leave it, you've likely sacrificed a lot of what you had in the real world.
Blame the victims (Score:4, Insightful)
If you can't stop playing it, obviously you have issues. Your life is not in balance, and your obsession to the game is just a symptom of the imbalance.
The game is not wrecking your life, you are.
I play World of Warcraft. I average about seven hours a week (four on sundays, and three more on tuesdays, because thats when all my friends can also play). It is fun. It is not wrecking my life. My character doesn't level up at light speed but so what? It is just a game.
Re:I need help (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder about this sometime (Score:3, Insightful)
On the flip side, I don't play at work or when the kids are awake. I look at what I'd be doing instead after the kids are in bed. I've basically stopped watching all TV, an even more useless time sink. I don't read as much, but I have a very small pile of books left to read right now- I need some of my authors to write faster :^) I still go out with friends when I get the chance. (Rare, due to kidlets.) It's cheap given the time spent- going out for a few drinks with friends will be way more than $15 for a night. But it's still the majority of my leisure time, and I've caught "wife aggro" occasionally.
Am I addicted? I'm probably skirting the edges of that, and it makes me nervous.
did ya read GP post? (Score:4, Insightful)
the opening of the third of three sentences follows.
I haven't played it myself
Re:Wrecking their lives? (Score:5, Insightful)
OMG, its just a game! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wrecking their lives? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fsck heroin, try that with plain ol smokes. It's been almost 4 years and I still want one now and then...
-nB
Sensationalist headlines (Score:3, Insightful)
The blog post is basically a rant from a slow learner. It took him over a year and '70 days played' to figure out what my friends and I figured out in a few weeks: Yup, WoW is still at treadmill.
It's a game, people. As soon as you have more 'virtual' commitments than real ones, that should be a clue that your priorities are askew.
Re:Blame the victims (Score:3, Insightful)
Different "substances" (alcohol, nicotine, gambling, MMOs) can hook different people, because the reward systems vary. There are alcoholics (recovering or otherwise) who can play MMOs without negative consequences, and many MMO addicts don't become alcoholics. Nicotine is addictive for just about everyone who smokes enough.
The object of addiction isn't completely arbitrary, either. It's not as if there are serious Bejeweled addicts. An MMO is addictive in its ongoing promise of another reward, because of its surrogate (I would say "pseudo-") sociality, because it offers a straightforward path of action that can be very appealing to people who lack one in their real lives.
Re:game X ruins lives: heard this before (Score:5, Insightful)
I beg to differ... It's not so popular now but back in the 80's when a) I was into D&D and b) Mazes and Monsters came
out people like this [chick.com] were everywhere! And this guy is jut one
example (albeit an extreme one).
My opinion then was that it's ridiculous to blame the game/manufacturer and as far as WoW is concerned my opinion hasn't changed.
Re:Wrecking their lives? (Score:3, Insightful)
Dumbass article. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I need help (Score:5, Insightful)
I play about 2-3 hours a day at a sitting but definitely don't play every day.
My wife growls at me for the time I watch playing wow but I'm able to have a conversation with her and watch tv at the same time (my tv and PC are in the same room).
Why is it (generally in the minds of non-gamers) that time spent with the TV is somehow "better" than time spent gaming?
I suppose that if you completely coccoon into the game vs. remaining aware of the outside world it's a problem but that applies to anything.
I often play wow with both my girls on my lap telling me what to kill and which quests to run. (most of my toons are also female because the girls name them).
Seems like yet another media sponsored backlash against time spent away from the tv.
Re:Let's be frank... (Score:5, Insightful)
As much as I disagree with Rand, it's because she lived in a fantasy land of multitalented, competent businessmen whose ethical standards prohibited exploiting others for profit.
Step 1 to quitting is taking personal responsibility. The guy in the article lives for other people's praise, wants to be that crucial guy that always put in the time to get the skills/items/info they needed for the raid, loves having other people dependent on him. He says as much in the article. I'm familiar with that playstyle because that's what I enjoy too.
Posting that article was just another way for him to elevate himself above his former guildmates (you're still playing that old game?) and get a lot of praise from the easily-wooed MMO community. If he doesn't get over that, he's just going to keep going back to the easy fix in a couple months when reality doesn't accomodate him anymore. No one can ultimately stop him from reinstalling and setting up another account besides him.
Re:Good post (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wrecking their lives? (Score:3, Insightful)
I have not smoked for 8 years now. I still have trouble at a bar with friends not to pick up one and have a toke. and I will occasionally enjoy a second hand smoke with coworkers outside. Every day I feel the desire to simply grab one and light it up. Only self control keeps me from doing it and I know that I will have that desire for the rest of my life.
Be it Cocaine, LSD, PCP, Herione, Opium, Uppers, blues, pinks, WOW, HL2, blogging, IRC, smoking, Drinking, whatever...
if you have an addictive personality, you will get addicted to it or something. Some thing are easierto get addicted to than others, but they all are identical to the poor SOB with zero self control and a strong affinity to addiction.
I have a brother in law addicted to huffing and pot. My wife's family is all upset about it, I see a pitiful 32 year old that has zero self control.
Re:oldest? [-1 offtopic] (Score:2, Insightful)
I played EQ since the first week, and it still took me over 2 years to get to level 50, hardly a powergamer rate (the first guys to 50 had done so in about a month. IIRC, the guy and his group offed a named unicorn "just to see what it dropped".) By that time I was 50, the cap had moved to 60, then 65. But even this relatively slow pace was more than enough to make my wife mad at me. Left it.
Tried some other games, at a much reduced play pace. Got to "Master Dancer"/pistoleer on SWG (not a big accomplishment by any means, if you've played it). "Dancer" was the only new thing in the game. Once that was done, left it.
Got to level 28 on WoW -- with 50 gold in the bank, I was already ready for a horse with everything but the level, and 100 more gold on my back, all self-earned and not twink. Left it. Nothing new here. Yes, well done, but nothing new.
Got two level 50's, scrappers, in City of Heroes. Lots of new things here. Free high-speed travel (> 60mph), level 14. True 3-dimensional movement (SWG and WoW are highly embarassing in this respect. Even the pre-scripted griffen flights are slow, low, and rude compared to CoH. And 40g for a mount that runs 1.6x your own speed? FTW!) More new things: Nice sliders for body styles, and outfits. Make a girl who'd make that "Baby got back" guy pass out from lack of water after drooling so much.
Best new thing: The scrapper class. Yes, you could be reasonably tough and do very high damage. No more pretending you're The Hulk while swatting with a wiffle bat.
Eventually that got boring. Another 2 years at it, at a much reduced pace (a few hours during the week, 4 hours each early Sat and Sun morning.)
Now what's new? DDO? One new thing: Doing dungeons the first time, nice. Sad: Almost impossible to get a group that isn't lead by someone who's done it 373 times before, making it pointless.
LoTR? Star Trek Online? Yeah, can't wait to see the roleplaying reason as to why Starfleet Academy wants me to go on dangerous, deadly missions but won't let me set my phaser on a level higher than "5 hits to kill a rat".
Re:70 days in a year (Score:4, Insightful)
My warlock has 97 days played. Over almost 2 years. Call it 600 days, that's probably about right.
My druid has like 20-25. Hunter is way less (you can level a hunter to 60 in about 5 days
Yeah, I play a lot. I have a full time job, a wife, a house, two dogs, and still take vacations, go to movies, and see friends. I do plan the friend time around the raid time occasionally. But at about the same rate that my wife plans friend time around knitting circle time, scrapbooking time, etc.
It's a hobby. I make time for it, schedule it. Have I lost sleep over it? Yeah. How many folks have lost sleep because of their hobbies? Anyone who has any passion about them.
Where'd the time come from?
I watch no television. I cook really fast (stir fry in 30 minutes, fried chicken with mashed potatoes and gravy and veggies in 45, grilled steaks and veggies in about 30...). I'm eating healthier (even homemade fried chicken is healthier than takeout burgers) than before, because it's faster to make my own food than go out of my way to pick up something. (Side note: Parents, teach your kids how to cook, and they'll figure out, eventually, that they're better at it and faster at it than restaurants that serve bad-for-you food, even counting cleanup time). I've pretty much given up drinking. I've streamlined the household chores, doing a bit more than my share to keep wife aggro down
In other words, all things that are probably better life choices in the long run.
One bad thing is I'm not reading nearly as many books as I used to. My books read/year is way way down.
My lifestyle (good job, no kids) has given me an excess of free time. This is how I choose to spend it.
Kind of related story, maybe even a funny one (Score:5, Insightful)
"World of Whorecraft" [whoresofwarcraft.com] (NSFW, duh)
And judging by the screenshots, I think I found someone I can look down on even more than tentacle-loving hentai freaks.
It looks like regular porn, but the girls are wearing elf ears and leather straps and stuff.
But, OK, that's not the worst part.
The worst part: The ONE, SINGLE attractive mid-20-ish college educated young woman that I've ever had in my classes (I'm an IT Trainer. A geeky, hopelessly introverted one who will probably be a lifelong virgin) is a WoW freak. She's about 5'10", blonde, big eyes, long legs and has a little bit of a fitness-model look. She went rock-climbing in the Andes on her last vacation. She really nice and well adjusted (maybe other than playing WoW...) Seriously good looking girl... And she's a geek of the "Lord of the Rings/Magic the Gathering" variety, which probably means she'd fulfill every possible fantasy for about 3/4 of the Slashdot population.
I told her about the "Whorecraft" thing and sent her a link to the site (We send each other off-color jokes and stuff all the time). This is what she wrote back.
"I have an outfit like that. I use it to get (her boyfriend's) attention when he's been raiding too much."
There is no fucking justice in the world.
That's all I'm going to say.
Well, OK, also, people who play WoW now frighten me more than ever.
like reading slashdot (Score:3, Insightful)
To the AC who said it reminds him of work: good point. Why did you AC that? Of course, work does provide you with funds for food and shelter, so there's a minor difference there. WoW is all outgo and no income, unlike some other online worlds which are providing real income for people.
Now, the most interesting question to me is: Is "real" life a simulation? For those who freak out, leave the god stuff out of this for the moment. Just take it at face value. In every age and civilization people start making models of the world, analogs of life. Whether it is a model railoroad enthusiast building a toy landscape or a Virtual Reality guy setting standards for online sex, it's the same deal, the same drive. VR is going to get to the point where there is effectively no difference the same way movies (another aspect of this: acting) are going to get so good at simulating human actors that they can all be made by Pixar. Read some of the stuff by Ray Kurzweil. He seriously thinks we'll be able to move ourselves into machines and dispense with physical bodies, thereby becoming immortal. What if we've already been down that road before? This life thing is a pretty good and complex virtual reality all by itself. Advanced physics would suggest that once you get past atoms, there's nothing there. It's all thought: You create reality yourself.
Eventually we'll all find out, but when you finally do know, don't forget you read it on slashdot first.
Shouldn't this be "oldest guilds in Warcraft"? (Score:3, Insightful)
So if this guy is talking about one of the oldest guilds in WoW, then I guess the guild I'm in is also one of the oldest as it started up like a half hour after the game went live.
But hey, his article says the same thing that we've heard over and over and over. ANYTHING can be overdone. Take all things in moderation. To all the people that say "get a life", examine your own life and see what you yourself are over indulging in. From couch potatoes to football/baseball fanatics to club-goers to people that play online games....it all can get out of hand if you don't watch it.
Re:Does scrabble wreck lives? (Score:2, Insightful)
Excuse me whilst I go on a little ramble here...
Do people have a choice? Is there any such thing as free will? Free will appears to be a contradiction in terms, unless you believe in mind-body duality. What are we but the sum of our genetics and experiences? Are not our reactions to any given stimulus, given enough information, completely predictable? If they are not, then that is surely down to quantum weirdness, and that (IMO) doesn't count as free will either.
Maybe people shouldn't blamed for their decisions, but pitied. We instinctually and emotionally shy away from any such conclusion, because we want there to be someone to blame, but that doesn't mean we're right.
However, that doesn't mean there isn't any hope. The things we say, the ways we act, they are also stimuli. They also can affect the way people think and act. We are not alone, islands of predetermination, doomed to our fates. We can save each other.
So keep shouting, brother. Some will hear and believe, and be saved.
Skinner Box (Score:4, Insightful)
You do enough of the required behavior and get a reward. The key is to make the reward incentive strong enough to continue the behavior.
In WoW, and other online games, the goal is to keep the player paying money to the company to keep playing. What attracts players? A good game, marketing, other gamers, escapism, etc. The players, thusly attracted, must be kept entertained reasonably. A guy from Atari used to talk about how they developed games and thought about things like Skinner Boxes.
My comment is not particularly insightful or novel -- just google for Skinner Box and WoW. It's a connection that lots of folks have made.
Part of dealing with the problem is to recognize it when it comes at you and and realize the manipulation taking place. I don't think that the WoW owners are evil for operating their Skinner Box, as ultimately it is an issue that, IMHO, drops to the level of "personal responsibility." I'd like to see more education for kids so that they can recognize these sorts of traps in life.
We teach kids to cross streets, to stay away from old wells, not to smoke, not to shoot heroin, not to get into cars with strangers, etc. Why don't we teach them some basic life skills like recognizing likely "modern day" traps where the danger is not as obvious? Things like shopping and the dopamine connection. How fast food places manipulate their seating to encourage you to leave. How grocery stores manipulate you into walking around the entire store to get to the milk.
While I mentioned "personal responsibility" above re: WoW, the fact that some folks are either more educated about such things or more innately sensitive to the manipulation of SB's should not result in us thinking of those who fall prey to SB's as being morally deficient or lacking in self-control. To some extent, they may not recognize the danger until the SB behavior is so reinforced that changing it is difficult. I have often wondered if there are chemical or physical changes in the brain in gaming addicts that are akin to those who are addicted to alcohol or drugs, for instance. Ignorance of possible harm, rather than lack of self-control, can likely explain at least some of the fallout or collateral damage that can result from overdoing online (or offline) games.
I'm sure that we will see someone ultimately argue that online games (since they are new and shiny and an "in" target) are psycholocigal conditioning devices. I suspect that, as with DOOM in the Columbine case (and GTA, and others), that video games, online and otherwise, will continue to be whipping boys in criminal cases and possibly in the tort system (regulation through litigation).
In any case, I understand the perils of gaming to some extent, and that understanding has helped to inform my personal decisions about doing it. Likewise, I'll try to educate my kids about it. I think that seeing these stories from time to time, though we all roll our eyes at them, is probably useful on the whole, as it reminds us that excesses are often unplanned and that they take their toll over time.
GF
Re:I need help (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If it weren't WoW, it'd be something else (Score:3, Insightful)
That's ridiculous. I have an addictive personality and I played EQ compulsively and fanatically for four years. Once I stopped, I didn't take up stalking or anything else to replace EQ -- I just got a life. Fortunately, I think MMORPGs are different than other addictions in that the "fix" eventually becomes unachievable. Unlike gambling, you can't borrow time from the future (although you can steal it from other responsibilities), so there's only so much you can invest, and once you go all in and see no return, it completely loses its allure. Nonetheless, many people are compelled to go all in, and their lives do suffer as a result.
But on the original point, it's naive to assert that people would just be addicted to something else. Of course I don't think WoW, other MMORPGs, or things like gambling should be banned. They are perfectly enjoyable activities for some people, but people should be educated on the addictive aspects of each, including warning signs. Perhaps games should monitor for excessive play, but that is, of course, difficult to define since there's been little if any research, and any action taken would be extremely controversial.
Hey, don't be too hard on him. (Score:2, Insightful)
>awesome you were, back in 2006. If you have grandkids.
Hey, don't be too hard on him.
This modern age has taught him that he's just an animal that happened to evolve, with no significance. And he's been taught that there's nothing beyond this life to hold him accountable.
Grandchildren? He's been taught that children are a contraception failure.
Why *should* he care about anything but entertainment? Were you expecting a different outcome to his education?
Re:Hey, don't be too hard on him. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hey, don't be too hard on him. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I need help (Score:5, Insightful)
Anything can be an addiction, and video games are no different. However, with the advent of MMO's, game addition has become much more social and mainstream than before.
From the article...
This is true of Blizzard, however, it should be noted that this did not start with WoW. EverQuest(EQ) was the pioneer of the 'mainstream' MMO. Every heard of the phrase 'EverCrack'? Anyone who's played EQ has. There was a group formed called EverQuest Widows [wikipedia.org] that comprised of people who left their husband / wife because of their game addiction. Or Husbands / Wives who had an affair with someone they meet playing this online game.
Of course, it isn't just EverQuest, it's an MMO thing, or possibly just restricted to the Fantasy genre as I've not heard of these same issues nor have I ever been as addicted to MMO's such as City of Heroes / Villans, Star Wars, or Matrix. I've seen these issues in EQ, Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC), and World of Warcraft (WoW).
During my time in DAoC, I actually experianced a real life situation where a wife who recently left her husband due to his game addiction. A wife I met playing DAoC with her and her husband. She joined DAoC to try and spend more time with her husband only to be left to level her own toon, while her husband ran off to do 'end game' raids.
This couple had other problems that an MMO addiction amplified. And their story will be familiar to a vast number of people. WoW, did not start this kind of 'extreme' addiction, but being the largest MMO, it will introduce it to the most number of people.
MMO and game addiction for myself, almost killed my college education. Of course, I've been addicted to Nintendo since I was 8 (and Pong and Intellivison before that). I hated sports until I was 12 when I started Football, despite my parents forcing me to wrestle between 8-12 year of age. I was overweight when I was a kid and I didn't get out and play with a lot of kids. My favorite gifts where Tiger Electronic hand held games. So, suffice it to say, I've been an 'addict' for a long time. However, the MMO and it's 'vitual' reality and the ability to actaully people with other people (co-op multi-player games where my favorite however you had to find a friend to play Nintendo with you) pulled me deeper than ever before. Dusk to Dawn game sessions. Skipping class (in college), passing oppurtunties to party (in one of the US's highest rated party schools), little to no studying. 10 mins reading a book, and I'd be thinking "If I kill these mobs, I can get this item! I can just farm those and level!"
It was after DAoC experiance that I had to regain control. Then I studied in Europe for a year with no outlet to really play video games at all. It was a great way to break the habit. When I returned from Europe, WoW was released. I still bought and played it on release day. I even had some long game sessions. However, it was much easier to pull myself away than before. My GPA went from 2.0 to 3.4. I went out at least twice a week with friends and visited my family more often.
The beauty of WoW is that it's extreamily easy to get a character to the 'end' level (whatever that may be at any given time). while all the other games I played make it so hard and difficult, that I've never actually 'maxxed out' a character in any other game.
Video Game addiction is a serios thing that gets little attention due to it's 'taboo' idea or possibly sound 'silly'. I don't th
It's the team aspect that is the problem... (Score:2, Insightful)
If you are playing First Person Shooter X and your significant other comes to you and asks you to help them open a jar of pickles, change the bedding, go out for a beer, or play naked twister, you can save and quit or pause the game and come back to it later. With MMO's there is no pause or quit. So you have the social pressure on you of these 39 people depending on you NOT going afk and you end up putting the real world one or two people aside.
I think Blizzard may have realized the timesink issue with the expansion because of their change to smaller 5-10 avatar raid encounters with saveable "wing" dungeon instances. But the fact of the matter is if you are in the middle of a fight and something happens in the outside world that requires your attention, you'll still have a tendency to prioritize the gameworld first. Thats the danger of the MMO. The social pressure of not wanting to let other people down that are depending on you.
Re:I need help (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a non-gamer, non-TV owner (and no, I don't claim that makes me better than you or anyone else, just the choices I've made) so I can't answer the exact question you asked, but here's some differences:
TV is more or less an extension of the passive entertainment offered by reading. There's not much correlation between the nominal effort you put into it and what you get out of it - in the case of a few shows (Farscape) you have to make some kind of commitment to watching and understanding the entire ark, but most TV shows you can watch any one episode and generally understand what's going on. MMORPGs on the other hand, by their very nature, tend to reward the amount of time spent on them. Someone who plays one hour a week will be much worse off in the game world than someone who spends one hour a day. This leads to a different relationship to the user where people who have self control issues (very often the types drawn to MMOs) can be sucked into online games in ways that interfere with what society has deemed "normal" life.
TV uses the normal human cues for non-verbal expression - eyes, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. MMOs lack subtle non-audio signals and the audio quality I've heard for the voice discussions on WoW have left me unimpressed to the point I suspect that it masks some important tonal information. I've had friends who I've known exclusively online for fifteen years or so and place great value on the electronic communication that allows those relationships, but I also recognize that we miss out on a great deal of the subtle nuances of human expression, that TV at least offers a faximily of.
In what I consider a plus for gaming, TV is a passive activity, while MMOs allow interactivity with hundreds and thousands of other people. Most of my friends that game do so as much to interact with friends who are physically distant as much as they do to play a game per say.
Lastly, MMOs allow for addictive escapism in a way that TV doesn't. TV enables viewers to ignore their lives and daydream about how they could be different, but MMOs allow users to actively create an alternate persona that fills in voids in their life or covers over their own flaws. Whether this is a good thing or not is a matter of debate. On the one hand, I don't necessarily view it as worse than someone who comes home from work and drinks to escape their problems, but on the other, any tactic that allows someone to ignore the problems of their life is problematic to me in that it encourages people to not actually deal with their issues.
But as I said, it's just a matter of the choices we all make for ourselves.
Re:I need help (Score:5, Insightful)
My point is that there isn't anything inherantly wrong with the game, or playing it, for most people. The vast majority will be able to balance their play time with the rest of their life with no trouble whatsoever. When we focus on the relativly few cases of real obsession with the game, we miss the point. It makes it look like Blizzard is at fault, and that anyone who plays their evil game will become addicted and suffer the consiquences. Attatudes like that are of no help to anyone. What we should be asking is: "What about this person made him become addicted to a game?" Not: "What about this game made this person become addicted to it?"
I agree that game addiction is a real issue, but the focus should be the person, not the game, since that is where the problem lies.
MUDs ruin lives (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me just say that I play a few hours a night and was raiding a little before the expansion news which caused a lot of guilds to 'take a break'. I'm currently levelling up a shaman and a hunter for the expansion.
When I started college (back in '95) a few friends introduced me to a MUD. I played it mostly to keep in contact with them (at other colleges) but just didn't really like the interface. It was all typing commands and reading text, like an online D&D session except without actually playing with other people. So, I reached the level cap, albeit slowly, and quit, only logging in to talk with my friends. However, one of my friends played all the time. He was always on. He failed out of school.
So, is Blizzard responsible for creating something that can be addictive? What about EQ, DAoC, AC, UO? They all have elements that can make people who are more susceptible become addicted. But couldn't Battlefield 2/2142? Remember that in BF1942/Vietnam you didn't have ranks. There wasn't a time commitment. You could leave at anytime. But with ranks you are need to grind your way up. The more games that contain these 'RPG' elements the more of this addiction stuff we are going to hear about.
Whatever happened to... (Score:3, Insightful)
The people who have the WoW addiction feel that they must get to "the end", whatever that may be in WoW (or any other MMORPG).
For me...it was the journey of getting to lvl 60. I liked exploring the world, searching new dungeons, grouping with a few people and attempting something new together.
It was just this past weekend that I finally reached lvl 60 with my mage after almost 2 years of playing (I have 4 other characters I was playing around with.) When I annouced my "Ding! lvl 60" on my guild chat, one of my other lvl 60 guildies says "Congrats, welcome to the 2nd half of the game".
But you know what? Seeing as the 2nd half of the game is strictly raiding, I'd rather go back to the 1st half of the game.
Re:I need help (Score:5, Insightful)
there is no chemical addiction going on here.
That's not quite true, though many would accuse me of picking nits. In this case, the chemical addiction is to a chemical produced by the body, not introduced externally. Either way, it's chemical, though.
So what you're saying is... (Score:3, Insightful)
Developing a code of ethics that doesn't rely on someone else's approval, now that's actually impressive.
Re:Hey, don't be too hard on him. (Score:4, Insightful)
People who beleive that they are superior, or that god is on their side, are dangerous. And that doesn't just hold true for religion; people who hold to non-religious ideologies that maintain a view of self-superiority are just as bad (see: fascism in the 20th century and social darwinism in the 19th as examples of ideology that gave it's adherants a warm fuzzy feeling of superiority). A little humbleness could do the human race some good.
Plus, I've seen what happens when the only thing driving morality is fear of the afterlife. If a fanatic honestly believes that god wants them to do something immoral, then they'll do it, and to hell with whoever they hurt or kill in the process. Is this somehow better than the apathy displayed by the GP?
Humans are humans. Regardless of reason, religion or era, they have the capacity for evil. To suggest that somehow the modern era is worse than the previous eras is to ignore all the apathy, ignorance and violence of those time periods. To suggest that any religion or ideology can prevent evil is to ignore mankinds capacity for fanaticism. At best it's rose-coloured glasses, and at worst it's an unhealthy desire to return to the bad old days.
Not to say we've improved very much mind you, but I take issue with the idea that there was some better era centuries or millenia past.
Re:Let's be frank... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I need help (Score:3, Insightful)
If you count chemicals produced by your own body as being part of a chemical addiction, you lose all distinction between chemical and psychological addictions, and they are two very different things.
This is a dilemma that will grow. (Score:2, Insightful)
I have several friends that have "ruined" their lives with online gaming from Quake I, Diablo, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Everquest, Anarchy Online to World of Warcraft (I have personally played all those games and more, but always managed to put real life ahead). I have seen friends drop out of Uni and "ruined" their lives by taking early morning part-time cleaning jobs just to be able to play to being unemployed and gaming. I've seen people I just knew by name drop out of Uni like flies due to the above mentioned games and even before that MUDs.
So what's the point? I always tried to figure out what motivates these people, and I've tried to help a few close friends to get out of it, but the uninstalling of the game worked for 2-3 days and then they are back on it. One friend broke his CDs, but how hard is it to download a gaming client nowadays? WoW's client is on their official site to download so is several others.
I have come to the conclusion, that there are several factors and they are different from person to person. Some like to be isolated and now they can also achieve "social status" without leaving their nest, feeling accomplishment, being über and having the best items and what not and in some games the highest level. Some get caught in the socializing itself. Some feel why bother with the real world, "it sucks" yet their real life obligations are crashing and burning and will put an end to their gaming sooner or later.
I guess it comes down to that real life is less appealing, and of course it is. Instant gratification is not as straight forward, and we have to do boring things to achieve better things. What gets me is that this problem will be even bigger now, specially with World of Warcraft introducing people to their in some case first MMORPGs. With new MMORPGs like Vanguard, Age of Conan, Warhammer and so on this problem will continue to grow.
Personally I would like to go all bonkers and draw wild unfounded conclusions like "this reflects a modern escapism from a society that is spinning out of control", but of course there is so much more to it than that, but alas the problem with online gaming will grow huge in the years to come. How to solve this problem? It is hard, it a person to person case I think, there is no pill for this, unless the goverment start banning things.
My 2p, a 60 Priest w/ crappy blues, in a non raiding guild.
A note: I do not in anyway blame the gaming companies.
The point of life is to create a point (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hey, don't be too hard on him. (Score:4, Insightful)
Why, oh, why mods, are you giving him Interesting and Insightful mods?
Bury the troll, but first, lets set him on fire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism [wikipedia.org]
There we go. Now, I'll go out on a limb here, and say that one can believe in evolution and contraception and not be a wanton hedonist. I'll assert that, because that describes me quite well, as well as most of the circle of friends I keep.
From the above mentioned article, you'll see that a very wise Greek had some pretty good ideas about this, roughly 1700 years ago. I especially like the description, "seek modest pleasures in order to attain a state of tranquility and freedom from fear". That sounds pretty damn good to me.
However, we certainly don't need to believe ourselves to be the chosen people of some abstract God to have self-worth. That feeling comes from the level of efficacy in your own life. If you feel that you need to believe you were created with a higher purpose by a higher being to have self worth, well good for you, but it certainly isn't necessary for me to get my rocks off. (Notice the hedonistic comment there? It was intentional)
I'm not going to even touch on the contraception comment, Google around for that one, you'll find plenty of scientific research proving that one to be a red herring almost as big as the aforementioned Troll.
Bottom line: I don't need my Invisible Friend in the Sky to make me feel good about myself. I'm not alone either.
And yea, I know you didn't mention God in your post. To bad, he's the big white elephant in the margins.
Re:Hey, don't be too hard on him. (Score:4, Insightful)
Then why do you guys care how he wastes his?
I know why *I* care; why do *you*, if you *honestly* believe that there is no point to life?
Because we've evolved to be social creatures: the well being of the other tribe members contributes to our well being.
You care for the afterlife-treat you were promised if you show an invisible father figure that you did what you were told, I care because I act with others as I would have them act the rest. If someone needs help that I can give, I help.
Cry Me a Fucking River (Score:3, Insightful)
People do this all the time. It has nothing to do with WoW, EQ, MMOs, games, or computers. For thousands of years, people have been finding hobbies that take them away from their normal lives. They pursue the hobby like an obsession. They care more about their precious garden than they do about their family and friends, or they spend all day in a park playing chess against strangers so they can brag that they're the smartest hobo in the world.
Maybe it's horseback riding, hiking, poker... and sometimes it's not even a hobby. Sometimes the obsession is more work. It doesn't matter what it is. During these secondary activities that become more important than their life, they meet people, have affairs, and throw 20 years of marriage down the tubes. And all this was happening long before Blizzard was even imagined.
Do I understand why people do it? Not really. Don't even bother explaining it to me because you're too sick to rationally understand why you are the problem, it is not the problem. Do you honestly expect me to believe you were on the fast-track to success, on the verge of being a Kung-Fu master, socialite, and brilliant newly graduated engineer were it only not for this game? Nice try, I know it's not your bridge to sell.
Re:Hey, don't be too hard on him. (Score:3, Insightful)