Students Skip College Music Services 246
WSJdpatton writes "College students don't turn down much that's free. But when it comes to online music, even free hasn't been enough to persuade many students to use the digital download services colleges and universities are providing." I know that the Ctrax service offered by my current school — Temple University — and many others (it's "available to all college students with a '.edu' email address") has an ugly, awkward interface. Worse, the free (gratis) part is an expiring, "tethered" collection of music for those who use it; downloads to keep are fee-per-track.
Even crap isn't worth free (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:2, Insightful)
The free manure many farms give away is probably rather popular with keen gardeners. I could have done with some recently...
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:2)
It doesn't need to be good shit, you just need to have enough of it.
What were we talking about again?
Free software! (Score:5, Funny)
It's your fault anyway (Score:5, Funny)
A) should quit whining and fix it yourself already, since you already have the source,
B) are an idiot (doubly so if what you needed is related in any way to user interface, reading existing files, etc). We should have mandatory IQ tests to prevent idiots like you from getting anywhere near a computer,
C) should RTFM already. In fact, you should write the RTFM, since it doesn't exist yet. Get to it already.
D) are an idiot
E) are a MS fanboy and/or paid to call their favourite program crap
F) are an idiot. Even by MS shill/fanboy/etc standards.
G) should stop doing anything that can't be done with their program. In fact, you should feel _proud_ to abandon any work you need done, or spend a few months learning command-line ways to do it, just to show the middle finger to MS.
H) are an idiot for needing that, or for doing it like that, in the first place
I) are only using a closed-source program instead because you've pirated it. We just know you did.
J) did we mention that you're an idiot yet?
K) all the above
L) like K, and you're an idiot too
Re:It's your fault anyway (Score:3)
Re:It's your fault anyway (Score:2)
Re:Free software! (Score:2)
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:5, Interesting)
I actually interviewed to work with them and used the opportunity to basically tell them why their product sucked and why nobody was using it rather than to try to obtain a job. It ended as such and I wonder to this day if they've improved at all because I refuse to even visit the service. All of my friends have stayed away from it as well for this reason.
In any case, if I'm offered a "legal" means to download the song then why can't I simply obtain that song via different means that may be faster (such as the DC++ network we had running at Purdue for a while, or via torrents)? It makes NO sense to me to say I can get the song one way but not another, even if the only difference is the DRM that is thrown and blown all over the song. (I could, after all, just use it myself for personal use and not burn it; which is exactly what I did with them).
Free translates for me as: you get what you pay for.
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:3, Informative)
Now, when the RIAA says 'this person stole $3000 worth of music' a good defence lawyer could argue 'my client copied $0 worth of material.' Of course, if someone pirated
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:5, Insightful)
This is still the sort of thing colleges spend money on, instead of, oh, say, that long-overdue raise for faculty...
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:2)
Grump
Re:Even crap isn't worth free (Score:3, Informative)
Napster contra IPod (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:2)
So you are right and I am wrong. Well played. Without a durable medium it is a little hard to steal things.
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know how I would do that, however...
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:2)
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:2)
Well, it's copyright infringement when you reproduce, distribute, and/or perform/display copyrighted material without permission of the copyright holder. Therefore, unless you're distributing or displaying the material, you could only be accused of infringing by reproducing.
So, the question of whether an act is even copyright infringement often hinges on whether a new digital copy is to be considered an infringing 'copy'. Of course, but there are also things like caching an mp3 during a transmission of so
Re:+5 Insightful? Oh please... (Score:2)
"Stop murdering people!"
"I'm not murdering people, I'm stealing lollipops!"
"Whatever! It's all just semantics. Stop trying to justify it."
Re:+5 Insightful? Oh please... (Score:3, Insightful)
Would you steal a car? Would you steal a purse? Would you steal a cellphone? Then why would you steal a movie?
No, I wouldn't steal a car. But if I could magically make an exact duplicate of the car, leaving the original intact and available to it's owner, damn right I would copy it. Same for the cellphone, money, etc.
What will happen to copyright law when the Jetson's style cloning machine becomes reality?
Re:+5 Insightful? Oh please... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you're being charged for a CD and the music's not being offered for free download on the band's web site in the format you desire, then that means that everyone involved with that production -- musicians, session musicians, recording engineers, graphic artists, marketers, etc., etc. -- put their time in to an effort that they knowingly expected would be sold.
If you disagree with that philos
Re:+5 Insightful? Oh please... (Score:3, Insightful)
Most of them are DEAD man-- I wish my heirs would get paid for the rest of time for the work I do every day.
I support a reasonable copyright period. The current copyright period is not reasonable.
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:2)
Free? (Score:4, Interesting)
It may be free in that you don't have to directly pay Napster, but the money has to come from somewhere -- it's probably covered under the 'Student Activities Fee' or one of the other many fees that you get hit with each semester.
(yes, I'm cynical -- I'm both an alum, and an ex-ISS employee. I've seen how much GW wastes on bad IT implementation. Hell, I even reported Nabih Bedewi [gwhatchet.com] to the engineering school for misappropriation of equipment almost a decade ago.)
Re:Free? (Score:2)
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:2)
Trying to keep this somewhat on topic, does anyone else think that the availabilty of music on University intranets makes free service offers less attractive? People can download gigab
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:2)
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:2)
It's more like borrowing music, while you happen to be there at University. It's only "free music" in the same way that the University's collection of CDs in the Audio Dept of the library is "free music;" and only then if you don't rip their CDs. It's just something you can borrow when you're a student there, and stops working when you leave.
If you want to really own the music, you have to pay for it -- thus it's n
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:2)
One way around the DRM is to re-record the song using a program such as Audacity. This is a the slow way to do it as it is a real time recording any any other messages on the computer (i.e. "You got Mail") or any glitches will show up on the copy.
It does work -- I purchased the new version of "We are the World" back when it came out as a DRM download. The first thing I did was re-record it to MP3 using Audacity. This was the one (and only) song I have or ever will purchase with DRM. If I purchase a song
Re:Napster contra IPod (Score:2)
Plus I don't have to go to the store, or struggle with maintaining a connection to somebodys PC. Downloading from peer to peer can really be a pain since Napster's legal woes. I've had faster, more stable connec
No thank you (Score:2, Informative)
Re:No thank you (Score:4, Funny)
"Its ease of use, speed, lack of viruses and spyware and affordable pricing are in line with what college students' seek today."
Z.
Re:No thank you (Score:5, Insightful)
I got so fed up with their stupid DRM that I even wrote a guide on how to get around it [slyengineer.com] using Audacity (clunky, but effective). Even with the ability to rip the tracks to mp3s using Audacity or similar, it just wasn't worth the hassle of their terrible interface in order to access their limited track selection. I remember at least a few letters in our school paper complaining about the service and what a waste of money it is (apparently some "anonymous donor" funded it.. ). It's too bad Apple are so stringent with their pricing, or they could work out great deals with Unis that people wouldn't hate so much. Maybe CDigix have cleaned up their act in the year or so since I've used their service, but I doubt it, and I don't see myself going back even though it is free.
Re:No thank you (Score:2, Informative)
When we first started 'file sharing' in college (1996 / 1997), we would get our mp3s from other college kids public FTP server. Found a lot of bands I'd never have overwise heard that way.
Ew. (Score:2)
TNSTAAFL (Score:3, Insightful)
Surprise surprise!
If most of the services charge for downloads you can keep, its hardly free is it? In either sense of the word.
Re:TNSTAAFL (Score:3, Informative)
I don't like keeping a large music collection at work and I don't want to carry my media player there either so I have recently been using Pandora [pandora.com] to stream music that I actually like to my work machine. It's not the best solution but it's better than the alternatives (i.e. streaming ABC/Disney stations)
Re:TNSTAAFL (Score:2)
Free...as in beer (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the main beef I got with DRM. Not that I have to pay per view, or that I should pay more or whatever. It is the fact that I cannot use the content I pay for in an enjoyable way. It's the tether attached, not the price tag.
Free...as in drugs (Score:5, Insightful)
Not true! (Score:2)
Re:Free...as in beer (Score:2)
Re:Free...as in beer (Score:2)
I can deal with the "do not distribute" part. I don't want to get into the discussion whether someone who copies music would have bought it if he couldn't copy, let's assume it is that way, or not, I don't care either way.
The problem is that, with many currently sold music formats, I cannot listen to them the way I want. I buy the right to listen to this music (that's what the license is about), yet I cannot use the license. I buy a CD to listen to it
Keep stuff after graduation? (Score:3, Interesting)
This is seriously not enforced, so they shouldn't worry about it. I still use software (mostly MSFT and Anti-virus stuff) I received free from college. And I graduated several years ago already.
Server enforced (Score:5, Interesting)
The music checks back with the server every so often to make sure you are still authorized to play. If you are not listed as a student, your ability to play is gone.
Re:Keep stuff after graduation? (Score:2)
Re:Keep stuff after graduation? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Keep stuff after graduation? (Score:2)
Re:Keep stuff after graduation? (Score:2)
Re:Keep stuff after graduation? (Score:2)
No, but they can be funny [foxnews.com]!
Mr Pot, meet Mr Kettle. (Score:2, Insightful)
Mr Pot, meet Mr Kettle.
About as bad as DRM gets (Score:4, Informative)
Re:About as bad as DRM gets (Score:2)
And if you sell a machine or two and forget to deauthorize them first, you have only the minor nuisance of performing a "deauthorize all" and then reauthorizing the machines you have.
another reason (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:another reason (Score:2)
Artists you can't get on RIAA download services... (Score:5, Insightful)
I guarantee that 90% of music reccomended by sites like Pitchfork aren't available on these services. If they were, people would use them.
Re:Artists you can't get on RIAA download services (Score:2)
I graduated a couple years ago, and it seemed to my that most college students' taste in music was as generic as the rest of the listening public. I was a big indie snob myself, but for every one of us, there were 20 students jamming to Britney Spears and Eminem.
Re:Artists you can't get on RIAA download services (Score:2)
Of course when I was in college in the 80's, a couple of bucks at the used record store bought you all kinds of neat stuff that you can't find on iTunes (or even bittorrent most of the time).
Re:Artists you can't get on RIAA download services (Score:2)
It's always been like that, hasn't it?
Re:Artists you can't get on RIAA download services (Score:2)
For one, their writing style is over the top to the point of insanity. We get it. You aced Creative Writing in college. Good job!
On the other hand, their tastes in music are, in my opinion, a pretty good reflection of the college demographic. A weird anomaly, however, is that their scoring system is entirely arbitrary -- at times it's subtractive, with one bad song causing the album to lose several points, and at times, it's additive, with albums getting 9/10 ratings
Big Surprise (Score:2, Interesting)
We got the "Ruckus" music service - which doesn't work on Mac OS X or iPods - and is little better than an extremely low quality (and ugly) jukebox.
Of course, 99% of RPI students are still illegally stealing music on the internet, but the school and the student government don't care because
Re:Big Surprise (Score:2)
An RPI Student's View... (Score:5, Informative)
Needless to say, as soon as the first group of 30 were sued for using i2hub, the student council inexplicably gets an offer from the otherwise unknown music service known as Ruckus [ruckusnetwork.com]. The student council was at least nice enough to give us a chance to respond to a survey regarding our acceptance of a music service on campus, but despite an underwhelming response of 23%, RPI inexplicably chooses Ruckus [rpi.edu] to be its provider, despite the fact that 2/3rds of poll respondants wanted MP3 downloads, 90% wanted to burn CDs, and 85% wanted to download and own the music [rpi.edu], and Ruckus is, of course, none of these, supporting only Microsoft DRM.
Despite some quiet rancor [rpi.edu] about the deal, and its possible relationship to a 'blackmail' deal with the RIAA, the student council twisted the facts [rpi.edu] and approved Ruckus anyway [rpi.edu], intending to keep it through the 06-07 year [rpi.edu], despite some [rpi.edu] qualms [rpi.edu] about its quality of service.
I haven't seen any long-term reviews of it either though, but I'm not particularly a fan of it. Too bad we students will have to pay for it in the end even if we don't want it.
Re:An RPI Student's View... (Score:2)
BTW, just for fair warning we did it like 7 or 8 times before campus security made us stop, though we basically got a "don't do this anymore". We were ticked off bec
Re:An RPI Student's View... (Score:2)
Re:An RPI Student's View... (Score:2)
Re:An RPI Student's View... (Score:3, Interesting)
Ruckus is Windows-only (despite a significant Mac base at my school) and only provides DRM-protected Windows Media downloads. Burning isn't free. You can't use it with an iPod, of course. To make matters worse, the software creates pop-up ads while the software is open.
Something dirty is happening behind the scenes in th
Napster is perfect for me (Score:3, Informative)
I think Napster is perfect for people who have eclectic tastes in music and are interested in discovering new artists. I plan on buying a subscription when I graduate.
Re:Napster is perfect for me (Score:2, Insightful)
Must've forgotten to take her mind-control pills.. (Score:2)
Wow. You know your business model's in trouble if your own VP doesn't buy into your FUD.
Man, I miss the good ol' days when you could run a music FTP undetectable on the university's fat pipe, and nobody would bat an eye. The selection was usually better than the RIAA's endless crapstream of
These people don't get it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Does this not describe the entire recent history of the RIAA?
Free isn't enough. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Free isn't enough. (Score:2)
I seem to recall a time when ethics classes where manditory in schools. Perhaps we should revisit that?
My University signed with Ruckus (Score:2, Insightful)
I refuse to use CTrax (Score:3, Insightful)
A) The interface was poorly designed and implemented in my opinion. A poor interface will stop a lot of people.
B) It forced the use of Internet Explorer on its site. I refuse to use IE. It is not because I am anti-MS, but it is because I have had serious problems in windows created by security flaws in IE. Furthermore, this dependency on IE screwed users of other OS's.
C) All of the music was wma format with DRM. I don't like DRM. Not only that, I fairly frequently reinstall windows on my machine because I frequently change hardware and/or toy with my system in various ways. Those files don't like being used after windows has been reinstalled due to previously stated hw changes.
Because of these problems, I found other sources for music.
DRM workaround for cheapskates.... (Score:2, Informative)
DRM workaround for cheapskates....
2 PC's
2 sound cards with digital I/O such as the (currently unavailable [for good?]) Catalina soundcards from Turtle Beach
http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/soundcard s/catalina/producthome.asp [turtlebeach.com]
Enjoy! (Did RIAA 'lean' on Turtle Beach to 'pull' these sound cards from the market?...)
P.S.: This is the best, simplest, straightforward, 'secu
Re:DRM workaround for cheapskates.... (Score:2)
I can do it with just one PC. And no, this isn't with a loopback cord from headphone to mic jack either. I have an Audigy and just select the appropriate recording source ('what-u-hear' I think works, but I odn't know for sure if it's what I've used). I don't think it goes to analog first, and in any case I can't tell the difference.
twisted terminology (Score:4, Informative)
Can't keep the music after graduation? Can't burn songs to CD? That's not free. The WSJ should not have used that term so carelessly. They fell hard for typical RIAA propaganda. The RIAA routinely tries to swap black and white, and then acting as if everyone agrees with their interpretation, proceeds with all sorts of arguments that would make perfect sense if the foundation they were based on was solid.
I especially enjoyed Sherman's statement: 'Universities have a particular responsibility to teach students the value of intellectual property because they are "probably the No. 1 creator of intellectual property."' Many professors do their own thing of course, but too many professors are more interested in mining their grad students' ideas for things they can publish under their own names and get all the credit for themselves. The Universities quietly prefer this because they have rights over their employees' thinking, but not their customer's. And let's not forget the racket (usually university run, but not necessarily) whereby publishers cheat the professors who cheated the students. Next time you see one of those digital libraries that is pleased to offer the opportunity to purchase copies of a paper for the low low price of $10 each, know that the authors of that paper will receive precisely 0% of that money. Those are the values that are passed on, that those of you who have "paid your dues" and had the honor of having a professor lift your work out of the morass of trash and sloppy thinking and fix it up and publish it, can, if you choose, one day go on to become publishers or professors and get in on the gravy side of the racket.
I also enjoyed the whine about students spurning Napster to buy from iTunes.
Re:twisted terminology (Score:3)
It's as free as any other "benefits" are. If I can call the ability to use the university's computer labs free, than (in my case) Napster is free. And if THAT'S not free, than having the university pay for a service where students can keep the music or burn it to CD still isn't free.
YOU'RE the one twisting words, by insisting on a definition that agrees more with "free as in speech" than "free as in beer", even though the latter
DRMs the problem (Score:2)
When people share something, they're giving you a taste of what it is that they like - they're teaching you about themselves. You learn what makes 'em tick. It's a human bonding experience, a way that people become closer, and a way to find folks like you (if someone's got a very similar collection of music, they may have
WTF are universities even involved? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fast forward 50 years. Now the universities seem to be some kind of theme park, and as the mafia expression says, everyone pays. Why the hell are universities so much into the entertainment business that they're offering students involuntary music service subscriptions? Liability issues aside (I don't think the RIAA could win such a case against a university anyway), this is just f*@*ing ridiculous. Univerities do NOT need to be county clubs that happen to offer classes to interested sober members.
Re:WTF are universities even involved? (Score:2)
Ungrateful (Score:3, Insightful)
So let me get this straight ... you get access to a large selection of music with mildly annoying DRM for free but if you want a non-expiring version, then you have to pay for it?
If you think this is poor, woe betide you when you get out into the "real world" as you'll find out that no-one here gets free unlimited downloads in that way and, shock horror, also has to pay for non-expiring versions of the music they like.
Personally, I think its a bit much you complaining about something for free which is obviously being paid for by someone else, but there you go.
Re:Ungrateful (Score:2)
Re:Ungrateful (Score:2)
So they leave University with the same amount of music that they had when they joined university and having paid nothing?
I'm sorry, but I still don't see what the issue is here. If you don't want to use a subscription service then fine, but the fact of the matter is that you get a large amount of conte
Music should be free (Score:2)
Why should a musician or a company, even a greedy insolent exploitative company, be compelled to give away its products?
Do you give away all of your work, or even some of it? If you work for a big, greedy company, do they give away their main product?
Surely, many things can be had for free, especially if you are willing to tolerate
So design actually matters? (Score:2)
How many hits from the cluestick does it take? Make it usable and people will, amazing as it sounds, use it.
Univerities buying things students don't want??? (Score:2)
In the USA, universities have all the baggage that comes with being large corporations as well as being government organizations like the pentagon who would never buy a hammer off the shelf when they can buy one for $500...
Take academic publishi
Re:what software? (Score:4, Insightful)
I think I must be the oddball because I have gone to PSU and use Napster quite a lot. Don't know what I'll do when the subscription goes away to be honest.
I'll tell you why I use it over pirating from a P2P system:
1. While I have it, it's legal.
2. While I have it, it's no more expensive than P2P.
3. Using Napster doesn't mean that when it goes away I can't go to P2P to get the same music.
4. It's a lot easier to download from Napster than it is from P2P... no worrying about firewalls blocking inbound ports, no worrying about share ratios, no worrying about "remotely queued"
5. I've seen D/L speeds of 2 MB/s. (Yes, that's BYTES, not bits.) Let's see you get that on P2P. (True, that's not reliable, but it's rare that you'll see a transfer go at under, say, 100 KB/s. At the same time, it's not uncommon to see P2P dls go at, say, 1 KB/s, especially when you take into account #4.)
6. It's a lot easier to find stuff I want on Napster, because they have all of the metadata correct. I can easily find all the tracks on an album, by an artist, etc. without having to worry if people are providing all of them.
7. I DON'T have to sort through 10 different versions of the same song that are all different somehow and try to figure out which one to get.
8. I DON'T have to worry about downloading a song and getting static, which has happened before.
Now, there are of course some drawbacks, such as it's harder to take it with you if you go on a trip, listen to in Linux, or keep after graduation (though none are impossible), and you have to deal with a really crappy interface, but there are a LOT of benefits over straight P2P.
Re:what software? (Score:2)
Opportunity (Score:2)
You have some good points but I think you are making a mistake here.
Downloading P2P from a university means you are less likley to get sude (because university admins have to agree to pass your info on to the RIAA) and you are taking advantage of a very powerful connection.
If you choose to download later outside of school you face a greater risk of being sued (not much greater, but still) and have to use your own bandw
Re:what software? (Score:2)
The reason you are seeing excessive speeds is because Napster has a local caching server on the PSU network. If you're living in the dorms they have only 10Mbit network connections, so what you were seeing is the maximum network bandwidth (I know this is true in West Halls, not sure about the others).
And yes, I use Napster all the time when I'm down there. They got a fairly big collection, although I'm starting to see a lot of more "pay only" track
Re:what software? (Score:2)
Actually, interestingly enough, the 2 MB/s speed was last summer when I was at an internship in NY and was connecting through Road Runner cable. I only things in that league once, but it was sustained for a few songs, so it wasn't just a momentary calculation glitch.
To this day I still have no idea how it managed it. There must have been something nearby.
If you're living in the dorms they have only 10
Re:what software? (Score:2, Interesting)
Because you absolutely must download an artists entire discography in 10 minutes to see if it's worth buying the CDs?
That is the excuse we're all still using, yeah?
Re:ruckus (Score:2)