Half-Life Beats Half-Life 2 Over Time? 139
Anonymous Coward writes "Tom's Hardware has an editorial up entitled 'Half-Life vs Half-Life 2: No comparison?' It explores the two games, and how they're holding up over time. He states that while the score of HL1 may have depreciated from 'a spectacular 95% to around about an average 70%' over the past couple of years, the score of HL2 'I'd now rate it in the low to mid 80's, or a full five to ten percent drop in a fraction of the time that the original has been around. Why is this?' The reason, he goes on to elaborate, is a lack of characterization. Half-Life was a blank slate modders could use to fill in their own worlds. HL2, on the other hand, has a definite story that ages less gracefully."
huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:huh? (Score:3, Interesting)
Half life was a fundamental change in game philosophy which said that telling a story was important, interacting with your environment and other characters made a difference, you would hope that Valve could carry that through to their new titles but they do seem to have gone d
Re:huh? (Score:2)
Re:huh? (Score:5, Informative)
I am one (our project burned out for a while), and I'm far more satisfied with the HL1 modding environment. I don't feel like repeating all of the reasons why, but amongst the developers I know, it's a well shared sentiment. Valve is nowhere near as friendly to developers anymore, especially to us open source ones.
The HL2SDK is astoundingly disorganized, barely compiles properly on GCC, is poorly supported, not ported to AMD64, and known serious bugs have gone unfixed for over a year.
Look at the game stats [steampowered.com]. The most popular third party Source mod is a tinker toy called "Garry's Mod". The next highest used Source mod has users that can be counted in one server screen. Not only is independent modding for HL2 a failure, but Valve is directly impeding it.
Re:huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
A few months ago I tried to start mod development by making the player jump higher when sprinting. Seemed like a simple enough mod. This took weeks to figure out because of 1. the poor design (the code that moves the player up is hidden like 20 methods deep, and fragments are all over the place) and 2. synch problems between the 'client' and 'server' code, which was also badly implemented.
For comparison, after installing the Doom3 SDK it took me less than 20 minutes to implement a similar mod for D3. Including getting it to compile and run within D3.
Re:huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
Honestly, the biggest reason in my opinion that HL2 isn't aging nearly as gracefully as HL1 is because it's much easier to renew HL1's value even if it does lack a fancy physics engine and good graphics right out of the box. A steady influx of mods, maps, and good development tools for HL2 would've certainly kept my attention on the game, but that didn't happen. The same goes for HL2DM and CSS - the biggest reasons I still play CS 1.5 on WON2 is because of the lack of Steam, the better power balance, and above all else, the sheer abundance of good maps and fun/funny mods and the ease with which you can mess with it. HL2DM and CSS lack all of those - Or in the case of Steam, they have it, and it sucks ass.
That aside, if HL2 were published five years earlier, it would've seemed dramatically more impressive to gamers regardless. Pretty graphics and good physics have already been done before, and Valve really missed the boat on that one. The graphics and physics of HL2 were its biggest selling points, and the only reason that the Source engine exists - to say that pretty graphics and physics are all that HL2 really has wouldn't be too terribly far off. However, similarly attractive games - especially generic but good looking first person shooters - are in abundance today, and HL2 just didn't have what it takes to remain in the limelight for too terribly long. HL2 was built around an entertaining visual experience, not a challenging and enjoyable gameplay experience. If you do that to a game and make visuals its focus while taking a shit on the level design and gameplay, you make a game that's briefly entertaining, but not enjoyable or satisfying by any stretch of the imagination.
Not to worry, though. WON2 is reasonably functional, and when CS 1.5 does get old, there are plenty of good freeware games out there to fiddle with...
Re:huh? (Score:2)
The thing with HL2 they you must remember is that it is a totally new engine, facing a world where modding for older engines is commonplace. HL was based on an old engine, with limited mods around before, and really made modding take off.
HL had the advantage of a community with previous experience of similar engines, and no expectations of what a mod should be. Conversely, HL2 was expe
Re:huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
The new HL2 is totally new, so there is no common descent from Quake3 or Doom3. Id's had several years and generations to get this stuff right, and Valve only one generation of development.
Re:huh? (Score:1)
Complexity Barrier (Score:2)
Re:huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
As opposed to the large, non-independent developers who are trying to make money off their hard work, right?
I know I'll be marked down but I don't care. I'm questioning why the double-standard. Why is it ok for the small guy to make money off their hard work but not for the big guy to make money off what is arguably even more hard work? In both cases someone is producing a product which they want to be paid for yet many on here feel it is acceptable to use pirated versions which they don't have to pay for and which costs the producing company money.
Re:huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Another explanation is that when large companies do business, their output is often somewhat homogenized since they have to target a broader audience to sustain themselves. Whereas smaller companies/developers can be niche. So a statement like that can be in support of niche development which is opt
Re:huh? (Score:1)
The large, non-independent developers are already making money off of their work... because they aren't independent and a publisher has payed them.
It seems to me the GP finds it good that people are getting payed for work.
Half-Life 2: The FPS for people who hate FPSes (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Half-Life 2: The FPS for people who hate FPSes (Score:1)
Weapon accuracy (Score:1)
BTW, the revolver, shotguns, and crossbow were all very capable of single-shot kills.
Re:Weapon accuracy (Score:2)
Re:Half-Life 2: The FPS for people who hate FPSes (Score:2, Funny)
umm
Re:Half-Life 2: The FPS for people who hate FPSes (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Half-Life 2: The FPS for people who hate FPSes (Score:2, Insightful)
>>buggy, move planks, order insects around, follow a girl, set up robotic guns,
>>and throw guys like ragdolls.
And these are bad things to have in an FPS?
Sounds immersive to me...
I guess the die-hard counterstrike, sneak-and-be-killed-in-one-shot type of person might not like it because sometimes they have to *gasp* do something other than sneak and shoot... but as an immersive world, adventure, story, gameplay, a
Re:Half-Life 2: The FPS for people who hate FPSes (Score:2)
Re:Half-Life 2: The FPS for people who hate FPSes (Score:2)
Not at all. My point was more that people don't like to play typical corridor-crawl FPSes anymore. If Valve would have made another HL1, it would never have been as popular.
Re:Half-Life 2: The FPS for people who hate FPSes (Score:1)
Re:Half-Life 2: The FPS for people who hate FPSes (Score:2)
Yeah, but that damned Italian plumber keeps jumping over them...
Don't bother with TFA. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Don't bother with TFA. (Score:2, Interesting)
The writer basically played HL1 Source and got completely wistful about the past and then wrote a snotty article.
Content-wise, HL2 will not live up to the original because it is a sequel. To continue the plot of the first requires a suspension of disbelief and I commend Valve for trying to do this without just making another HL like Quake 2 + 3, or Duke Nukem 2 + 3, or Doom 2 + 3. And, keep in mind, in HL2, the human race is being shipped off into containers for genocide - it's h
Re:Don't bother with TFA. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Don't bother with TFA. (Score:2)
Re:Don't bother with TFA. (Score:1)
Subjectiveness (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Subjectiveness (Score:2)
The point that he makes resonates with my own experience of HL2 and so I'm glad that he wrote it. It's especially interesting for considering I am waiting expectantly for HL2:episode 1 to be released, with baited breath hoping for a decent story development.
Re:Subjectiveness (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Subjectiveness (Score:2)
from the running-articles-i-disagree-with-is-good-for-me dept.
My Opinion (Score:4, Interesting)
Fast forward to HL2. I get it on release day and install it, and I've instantly got Steam issues. I won't dwell on them here, but it did leave me in a mood where I was prepared to not enjoy the game which is why I mention it. Anyway, I played through almost to the end over the next day or so, and I did enjoy it. But I was left feeling like the game was a wasted opportunity. For me, it didn't live up to the promise it started with. Most of the game sections seemed to go on for too long, especially the boat and car sections. Many puzzles seemed to be an excuse to show off the physics engine rather than to be there for their own sake (buoyant barrels, seesaws). A lot of it is probably personal taste, I just felt like it wasn't all that good when viewed next to the original. I certainly have no urge to replay it, despite not having reached the end, since I reinstalled it on a new hard disk.
I'd really like to try HL:Source, the original Half-Life in the new engine, but I don't feel like paying for the privilege. I'll keep an eye on the Black Mesa mod which seems to be a more ambitious project anyway...
Re:My Opinion (Score:2)
Re:My Opinion (Score:1)
Re:My Opinion (Score:2, Informative)
Re:My Opinion (Score:2)
Re:My Opinion (Score:1)
They released HL:S for the sole purpose of making people think they were getting more stuff and not paying for it.
Duhhhh (Score:5, Funny)
The Difference...IMO (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:The Difference...IMO (Score:3, Interesting)
It kept selling very well with addons such as Opposing Forces, Counter Strike and a few others. Half Life 2 however puts the modding capabilities into the hands of the common man. ... For HalfLife 1, you could make maps and what not, but modding wasn't as popular is it is now.
I'm afraid that I think you're entirely incorrect. First off, one of your examples of an 'add on,' Counter-Strike, was initially a user created mod that went through many iterations (7 major public beta versions, for example) befor
Re:The Difference...IMO (Score:1)
Re:The Difference...IMO (Score:2)
Re:The Difference...IMO (Score:2)
Ah, my apologies--I recalled playing RO with UT2004 and somehow assumed their latest release was a HL2 mod since it was on Steam.
Thanks for the correction!
Ali vs. Boxerbot 2.0 (Score:2)
HL2 is too nice (Score:1)
Lack of Imagination (Score:4, Interesting)
HL1: Main character is average-joe (well, scientist, but certainly a bit out of his element here). HL2: Main character is exhaulted hero praised by everyone (same guy as before, but people worship him now)
HL1: Scary sequences where you know monsters are slowly picking off people and annihilating the base. HL2: Less scary open outdoor sequences, more of a serious-sam game than before. (except ravenwood)
HL1: Fighting for survival, and little else. HL2: Fighting for an ideal and grand-purpose of saving humanity.
See the difference? HL1 had much of a more noir, dark atmosphere. HL2 had more of a "lets shoot stuff and be heroes" kind of atmosphere. The first one tends to draw players in and keep them interested and thinking about the complex story, the second is just too streightforward to keep people playing.
p.s. (completely unrelated to above comments) Hl 2 multiplayer is woefully poor. I would rather play HL 1 multiplayer. Granted, the physics engine is nice, but you see people dance up ladders (they fall, catch themselves, fall, catch themselves, ect.), see huge lag times even on direct connections, and the physics engine degrades severely in multiplayer play.
Re:Lack of Imagination (Score:1)
Agreed. I liked HL2, but the original was definately more fun (for the most part).
However, we kind of over-romanticize the original. It kind of tapered off when you start getting more involved with Xen. At some point it simply becomes a run-and-gun killing and endless stream of Xen electricity-spouting slaves and other monsters popping out of cocoon type things.
The beginning and middle of the original was a masterpiece. The environment,
Re:Lack of Imagination (Score:1)
If it had gone on with more dark noir atmosphere, the ending would have had much less of an effect.
As it is, the game starts out creepy, moves to get a bit darker and scarier, then less scar
Taking away the guns (Score:2)
Which they did at one point in the game. And yes, most of us screamed bloody murder at it.
Some of us take great pride in conserving our ammo and thereby collecting all 231 glass arrows in the game.
Re:Lack of Imagination (Score:2)
Surely I'm not the only player who made it a point to gib every scientist in the game?
Re:Lack of Imagination (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, for what it's worth I completely disagree. As another poster has already stated, HL2 is immensely atmospheric. Maybe 'scary' is not the right word to describe most of HL2, but 'creepy' certainly is. It seems to have that Eastern European WWII-era squalor look down perfectly, and with the Combine, the Striders, Doctor Breen's messages, plus the way zombies sometimes rise up in the distance and shamble towards you, and sometimes just pop out of nowhere, the feel of that game is incredible. Do you remember the first time the fast jumping zombie guys come at you? Among the best OMGWTFBBQ moments in all of FPS-dom.
Re:Lack of Imagination (Score:1)
I said "except ravenholm" (well, ravenwood the first time, because I forgot the village's name). That one area had a good atmosphere to it.
I'm not saying that the atmosphere was badly done in HL2, just that it had a different kind of atmosphere, that doesn't lend to the same kind of long-lasting appeal.
Re:Lack of Imagination (Score:2)
Interesting that you seem to think that was a negative for HL2 and a mark in favor of HL1. For me, I found that "fighting for an ideal" was extremely compelling. The opening scenes of HL2 set the stage nicely -- you saw the hopelessness, the opression, the fear of the people of City 17. When I finally get to take action agai
Re:Lack of Imagination (Score:2)
As you play, the ultimate objective gradually unfolds. At the start, you're just trying to get the hell out of there. Then you have to deal with the military. You eventually learn that the scientists are still at work, and they've been putting their own lives at serious risk to try to fix the problem. They were about to launch the r
In some ways he has a point... (Score:1)
Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:3, Insightful)
BTW, Steam has killed our lan gaming events. It takes up too much bandwidth trying to phone home so it ends up killing the network for everyone else. Especially if not everyone is updated before they get to the lan, which is usually the case. The amount of people showing up for an event dropped alot after Steam killed it.
Re:Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:1)
Re:Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:2)
Easy fix: Force everyone to update at before connecting to the lan.
.GCF few files to a couple DVD-RW.
1. Burn
2. Overwrite the GCF files in the Steam Folder.
3. ???
4. Profit!
It's not a prob
Re:Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:2)
Also it seems
Re:Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:2, Insightful)
The LAN has a strict rule that all computers and servers are up-to-date as of 10pm the night before. Apart from that, you just have to make sure your Steam is configured for offline use (it's a single checkbox in the prefs pane) and you're good to go.
It's not frickin' rocket science.
Re:Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:2)
Re:Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:2)
Re:Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:2)
http://www.gaztronics.net/rsync.php [gaztronics.net]
Re:Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:2)
Course if, like me, you're in the UK it makes things a helluva lot cheaper (about £12 versus £20 for HL2:E1).
Re:Maybe Steam is the difference? (Score:2)
The most obvious difference... (Score:3, Insightful)
I enjoyed both games, but between the two I'd been constantly assaulted with a few hundred more "FPS 2000 +1 EX Edition (Now with zombies!)" and honestly I've become pretty disinterested in the entire genre as a result.
HL1 hit and it was earth shattering. That nostalgia probably accounts for a lot of its remaining popularity.
I liked the first one better (Score:1)
Steam! (Score:1)
Half-life (Score:4, Informative)
A P233 with a Voodoo card could run all of the HL1-based games at a very decent speed when they first came out. Even now my 1GHz laptop can still perform more than good enough TODAY on all the above HL1 games without needing a brute of an AGP/PCI-Express card. CS:Source kills it stone dead, as does HL2.
Each HL1 game provided many hours of play and something completely different each time (even CZ was quite different to CS). Most were designed for offline play for the most part and therefore the single player game was the primary focus. In a time when the Internet WAS 56K modems or less this was a big plus.
Mods were very prevelant and didn't require extreme 3D graphic skills to get a basic mod running. For HL2 serious physics, enormous maps, complicated AI, professional-level 3D graphics and level design all mean that a casual mod will be next-to-impossible for the average small team to produce on their own.
http://steampowered.com/status/game_stats.html [steampowered.com]
That page shows you that I'm not on my own with this. The sum total of all source-based games doesn't come NEAR the sum total of all HL based games. CS alone has 4 times the number of player-minutes compared to CS:S. Then include the fact that even the serious competitions are skipping CS:Source completely because it's been dumbed down.
Author cared more for Barney's clones in HL... (Score:2)
Re:Author cared more for Barney's clones in HL... (Score:2)
Care for? I thought they were the targets! Oh man.... no wonder I was running out of ammo so fast.
My humble take on it all... (Score:5, Interesting)
HL2 was also a bit short. Aside from that I had a great time.
But now, my complaint is CSS. What are they thinking or am I the only one who doesn't get it: The new lighting SUCKS. Very much. It doesn't take my eyes 5 seconds to fully adjust from the dimness of looking at the shadow of a building to the sunlit street 25 degrees to my right. It's nearly as effective as a flashbang in some cases when leaving the middle structure in Dust to going into the open.
Also, they need to have more secondary attack modes. Aside from silenced and scoped weapons there is next to nothing. The reality is that when you swing an AK safty arm the entire way down it goes into semi-automatic mode and not full auto. I'd like to have this option as semi and burst seems to produce better results in accuracy. The Clarion rifle has burst, why can't the AK have semi? Or how about 3 round burst on the MP5 since there is no secondary mode on the weapon?
Also, the nades are WAY under powered. I'm sorry guys, but if a half a pound of explosives encased in a thin metal canister goes off at your feet you're probably going to die. But on the HE nades in CSS you might take 40% damage... what's up with that? And there is no secondary effect such as loss of hearing or even a minor "shell shock" effect like in COD.
I recently seen a posting on a message board addressing the lack of nade power and it was laughable that the best responce to it all was that they were under powered because it would make it easy to kill an entire team on some unknown custom map.
There is probably a way to mod this on some server settings but that should be in the server options and not some obscure
It's great that they keep bringing out new skins, now if they could just make a bot that can actually get a nade through a window and not have it bounce back on a rushing team mate...
I could probably go on for days. The sad things is this is still just as good as 90% of all FPS multiplayers, but I still find myself playing MOH objective matches 3 or 4 years after the fact because the game seems better than what CS has turned into with CSS.
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:2)
I guess you *TOTALLY* forgot about the HEV suit, didn't you? Hazard suit *AND* impact resistant armor, with built-in medical administration system "War
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:2)
But this is CSS I'm talking about. Actually, if you buy a bullet proof vest/helmet in CSS it makes little difference in your lifespan too. It's really not worth the cash unless you've already maxed out your funds.
The HEV was a great idea in HL.
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:2)
Which was borrowed from Marathon, like a lot of other stuff in Half-Life. Personally, I think that game is over-rated... Marathon did most of what Half-Life did first, but since the Mac wasn't a popular gaming platform, it's utterly ignored in the gaming press.
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:2)
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:1)
I agree, kind of. The lighting looks good, but it does make it a tougher game, which is why I turn it off when playing CS:S. I figure that turning it off isn't cheating unless everyone else had it turned on, and I was the only one with it off.
grenades and hearing loss (Score:2)
I am not sure what game you are playing, but in Counter Strike Source, if you have a flashbang or HE grenade go off near you, there is a definite loss of hearing. All sounds become muted instantly. There is no loss of hearing only in the original Counter Strike.
strike
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:1)
If a grenade goes off near you, you'll hear a loud ringing for several seconds that slowly fades out.
A flashbang causes the screen to white-out and slowly fade in, complete with an after-image to simulate retina burn.
I agree that grenades should be more powerful, but the other aspects of their realism are fine.
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:2)
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:2)
Now that we have that settled, you need to realize that counterstrike was never intended to be realistic. Anyone with half a brain who measures it against realism will be extremely disappointed. Of course, it doesn't have fantastic and absurd weaponry of most of the unrealistic first person shooter genre (Doom, Unreal, Quake), so people expect some semblance of realism out of it.
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:2)
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:2)
I'm glad to see that you have the time to be a critic to anyone who uses an accepted shortening of a term. Oh, sorry, that's terminology. Really, do you go around harrassing anyone who uses "lol", "imho" or "btw"? I'm sure you can fill your time easily if that's the case.
Now that we have that settled, you need to realize that counterstrike was never intended to be realistic. Anyo
Re:My humble take on it all... (Score:2)
It's great that they keep bringing out new skins, now if they could just make a bot that can actually get a nade through a window and not have it bounce back on a rushing team mate...
Yes, they should get all those lazy texture artists and modellers over to the coding room to whip up some advanced AI real quick!
Both are classics (Score:2)
Best thing about HL2 (Score:2)
HL R0075 !-!4rd
ooookayyyyyy (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally I think HL2 was too far ahead of its time for a good chunk of gamers to get it. Or that it's a genre all its own that players don't yet know how to enjoy. The ass-backwards criticisms are a testament to that. The PC gaming community has become so obsessed with mod-ability (which HL2 actually is first-class in, only beaten by Unreal) that many can't enjoy a linear, non-sandbox masterpiece of a game because you're not allowed to go off in any direction and do whatever you want, GTA-style. Games don't HAVE to be open-ended.
Re:ooookayyyyyy (Score:2)
Completion of the story.... (Score:3, Insightful)
The most exciting thing in my mind right now is the project Black Mesa:Source [blackmesasource.com]. Playing through the original half life with updated graphics? Kick ass.
HL versus HL2 (Score:2)
Even though neither is a pinnacle of storytelling the original was more compelling. I think what is a detriment to HL2 is that the emphasis was on the graphics moreso than anything else. So the game was built around providing a visually impressive experience, which inevitably means other aspects of the game suffers.
Furthermore, there are countless FPS games out there nowadays many of which seem to have emp
Favourite modding environments? (Score:2)
I disagree (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I disagree (Score:2)
Perhaps Half-Life 2 is really only good for its time? Maybe? This reminds me of the statement that everything has already been invented.
Your imagination has been stunted. Go outside; it's springtime and it's beautiful. There's is always more that you
Re:I disagree (Score:2)
Half Life overrated... (Score:2)
Re:Half Life overrated... (Score:1)
I actually like the story of the OSS FPS Cube (Score:2)
"You kill stuff."
FWIW (Score:2)