Microsoft to Get Tough on License Dodgers

An anonymous reader writes "PC Advisor reports that Microsoft is going to start getting tough with certain small business customers. They are going to examine their small customer license database — any discrepancies and it will call you for an audit. If you refuse it will send in the BSA and the legal heavies. "

So true

You know, not to be a troll, but I really don't see what the big deal is. Regardless of whatever ethical problems one may have with Microsoft, if a business is using illegal copies of software, that company should be sued. Buying the appropriate licenses for software is one of the costs of doing business. If I wrote a piece of software the businesses wanted and I found out that it was being rampantly pirated, I'd be wanting to stick the BSA on them, too. I don't see why Microsoft should be held to a different standard.

If you're a business using Windows, budget for it and pay, for crying out loud. If you don't want to spend the money on Microsoft products, then use open source products instead, which have become very economically attractive and corporately viable replacements. But trying to have your cake and eat it too is just stupid.

Oh, and as a side note, not that this won't start happening in the US by any stretch of the imagination, but from TFA:

So far, Microsoft will use the new approach only in the UK, [UK Lincensing Programs Manager Ram] Dhaliwal said.

Re:So true

My problem isn't with prosecuting folks who pirate software, it's more with the draconian measures that the BSA is willing to take, and the apparently difficult rpocess that a company has to go through to prove that their software is legitimate. Having disks, license keys, and boxes on site apparently isn't enough.

Re:So true

Having disks, license keys, and boxes on site apparently isn't enough.

According to some reports, the BSA reportedly requires original invoices dated before notice of the audit and showing the company name exactly. Supposedly, if you change the name of the company, you have to buy a whole new set of licenses and have the original invoices to prove it.

That is one of the best reasons of all to ditch Microsoft for good.

Re:So true

Sorry, but that is bull.

While they do license per developer, you can change the licensed developer.
http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/licenses/lice nsing/qtlicensing [trolltech.com]

Re:So true

They are actually quite reasonable. There's only a few GUI developers at our place who regularly write Qt code, but everyone compiles the entire system. They didn't force us to by one license per developer. It is a little weird. I would guess they're trying to stop buying a single license for the entire company. For us, it's Chump Change to pay up in exchange for goodwill and support.

Not that they can do anything about it. You have the source code!

Re:So true

Hogwash.

The BSA is not a government or law enforcement agency. It is a commercial entity engaged on behalf of a copyright holder to perform audits of suspected license violations. Your participation with their audit is voluntary unless they have sufficient probably cause to justify a warrant, in which case they will be accompanied by a law enforcement agent. And quite frankly, there's no reason why you would want to cooperate with the BSA, even if you know your are 100% in compliance, because of the cost in your time in going through the process.

The biggest problem is going to be finding purchase records at all. Most businesses are not sufficiently organized to deal with a license audit. And, since most small businesses buy their software through multiple sources -- OEM, eCommerce, local retaillers, electronics stores, even bundled with other applications -- usually the business is forced to go back through tax records to come up with receipts and invoices. Overall, it is usually a combination of physical evidence -- invoices, credit card transactions, physical media, license keys, registration codes, email messages, etc -- that combined provide compelling, if not conclusive, evidence of legal purchase. If a company changes its name, or merges with another, there will be sufficient documentation of what has occurred that this wouldn't be a problem. An original receipt doesn't even need to show the name of the purchaser (i.e, buying MS-Office at Staples doesn't make your copy illegal just because Staples doesn't print your name on the receipt).

Remember that, at least in the US, the evidence must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If you have original media, CD-cases and CD-Keys -- all the mechanisms of Microsoft's license enforcement -- it is unlikely that a jury will find in the BSA's favor for lack of purchase records.

Re:So true

Remember that, at least in the US, the evidence must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If you have original media, CD-cases and CD-Keys -- all the mechanisms of Microsoft's license enforcement -- it is unlikely that a jury will find in the BSA's favor for lack of purchase records.

Reasonable doubt only applies for criminal cases, though, not civil. I'm sure that Microsoft has more than enough lawyers to file a few civil suites.

Re:So true

I live in a world where I have worked with small/medium business people, they are in a small business because they are an independent lot and they do not like working for others.

M$ has made this identical announcement a few years after the B$A started and targeted a few small computer/software businesses for marketing purposes before quietly backing off (long before actually targeting no computer/software orientated businesses, they even offered rewards for employees to inform on their employers).

I'll give you a hint, I tell my suppliers what to do, the supplier does not tell me what to do, else, they will not be my supplier for much longer. When your nothing but an overhead, you mind your manners otherwise regardless of the inconvenience you will be replaced.

Besides I want M$ to do it, the more aggressively the better, go ahead kick down those doors and start issuing commands to your customers, I dare you ;).

civil vs. criminal...

Your participation with their audit is voluntary unless they have sufficient probably cause to justify a warrant, in which case they will be accompanied by a law enforcement agent.

Wrong. Participation is voluntary, unless they get a court order, filed as part of a lawsuit. it's not a warrant. Warrants are used in criminal cases, not (private party) civil suits.

Remember that, at least in the US, the evidence must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yet again, please get your facts straight. Copyright violation is a civil, not criminal, matter. In civil court, the standards of evidence are much, much lower- which is why you can get a parking ticket, have it blown off your windshield, and have the fine double (and if you refuse to pay, your license revoked.)

That said- YES, you should ALWAYS tell the BSA to get off your property and not to come back without a court order. Unless they're fairly certain that you have enough license violations to justify the labor, they won't be back.

Re:So true

The question isn't what a jury is going to find. It is what the BSA considers acceptable to keep them from taking you to court for software piracy. They know that the enormous litigation costs means that few, if any, cases will ever see a jury.

From Proof of License in BSA Audits [bsadefense.com]:

Not Considered Valid Proof

Copies of Checks to Software Vendors
Dated Purchase Orders
Undated Software Licenses
Credit Card Statements Evidencing Software Purchases
Certificates of Authenticity
Media, Manuals, or Key-Codes
Invoices Bearing and Entity Name Other than the Entity Named in the BSA's Initial Letter

Valid Proof of Purchase

Dated Invoices in the Name of the Audited Entity
Soft Records (online account statements) from Recognized Resellers
Signed and Dated License Agreements
Soft Records from BSA Member's such as Microsoft Licensing Statements
Cash Register Receipts for Retail Sales where Product, Version, Quantity and Price Paid are Included.

Re:So true

You mean other than the fact that civil law around the world makes it legal to build private police forces like this to enforce copyright? That these private police forces can enter private property, seize assets that contain confidential information, and are accountable to no-one? The BSA and other copyright police forces have more power to search than the FBI. Not withstanding the obvious civil rights concerns, or the privacy concerns, copyright owners have the power to look at any computer system, any piece of source code even, that they may find interesting. Who gets to look and where they get to look is determined entirely by who has the best lawyers. In most parts of the world, the local police will happily aid in the use of force to inspect.

I'm waiting for the next upgrade to the TRIPS treaties to see whether or not copyright police forces have started demanding covert inspection rights.. making it legal for them to plant spies in your business to see if you have all the appropriate licenses or whether any of your source code is violating their IP, without the messiness of a raid. Maybe they'll ask for widespread surveillance rights too.

Yeah, and "She was asking for it," right?

I've frequently found myself pirating a software initially and as I find more and more uses for it, and become dependent on it, I purchase a license. Is it proper?

No. If you want to try out software from Microsoft, almost every product will allow you to in a perfectly legal manner. What do you want to try out? How about Microsoft Office 2007 Pro [trymicrosoftoffice.com]? Visio [trymicrosoftoffice.com]? What about Visual Studio Pro [microsoft.com]? Money [microsoft.com]? Or maybe you'd like to try out some entertainment software like Age of Empires III [microsoft.com], Halo [microsoft.com], or Zoo Tycoon [microsoft.com]?

Don't see something you want in that list? Call Microsoft. They're actually really good at working with businesses (and we are talking about businesses here) at getting them trials and evals of whatever they want.

Is it wrong?

Yes, it is. No stupid rationalizations, no bandwagons, no mitigating factors, no ifs, ands, or buts; it's wrong, plain and simple.

They stealthily encourages piracy and then demanded all pirated users pay.

That's bullshit. How exactly are they encouraging piracy? Seems to me that with all of this WGA shit that's coming down, they're bending over backwards to the point of screwing up honest customers' computers in trying to keep piracy under control. What an idiotic thing to say. What exactly do they have to do to convince you that they don't want you to pirate their software? Send men in sunglasses and black hats to your house to break down your door, check your computer, and break your legs if you've installed their software illegally?

Are you basically saying that having only rudimentary CD-Key verification, or even no verification at all, in previous versions of Windows is somehow encouraging piracy? That's basically saying that right or wrong, it doesn't matter if someone rapes a girl if she was dressed like she wanted it, and like I said, that's bullshit.

Or maybe you're saying that because Microsoft offers sweet deals to OEMs, schools, governments, and big customers that they're encouraging piracy. Guess what... That's bullshit too. Every software company of any decent size does that. It's called trying to sell your software, not asking people to illegally use your stuff. If I make widgets and I offer a volume discount on them, am I asking for people to steal them? No. Do widget pirates have a right to fight back if I try to keep them from stealing widgets? No.

And god knows that I am not a fan of Microsoft or the BSA, but when I read comments like yours, it's hard to not cheer for them. That arrogant smugness, unapologetically doing what you know is wrong, is exactly what makes them look reasonable and justified and what keeps companies and organizations like them in business.

It's people like you who completely undermine everything that people who contribute to FOSS projects stand for. If more people were like you, there'd be no need for things like Linux, OpenOffice.org, Firefox, The Gimp, or any other FOSS. If someone wants an office application, there's no need to look for a FOSS alternative; just pirate a copy of Microsoft Office. Don't use Linux, just pirate a copy of Windows.

God, what a moron.

Re:So true

If you eat your cake, do you still have it?

Good grief you must be stupid.

Re:So true

It's a stupid saying. I've had my cake and ate it. Even after I ate it I still had it. Nobody made me cough it up. I still had my cake for a few more hours, then I blew it out my ass.

Then I didn't want it any more....

Eat your cake

"Have your cake and eat it, too [wikipedia.org]" is an idiom meaning "To have it both ways." It was originally "Eat your cake and have it, too" but became confused in popular usage, to the point where the corrupted form is understood (by most people) and accepted, while the more sensible original form is not.

Hope this clears that up for you.

Re:So true

Depending on your digestive system, you can eat your cake and still have it for up to several hours afterwards.

Actually, some of the atoms from the cake will be absorbed into your bloodstream and wind up distributed in various parts of your body, where they might stay for years (even until the end of your life).

A cake is more than just a mixture of certain ingredients, it's a structure. The moment you bite into it, the structure starts breaking down. So we can reduce this to a semantic problem: at which point in the breakdown process does the cake stop being a cake? I would argue that this happens when it's chewed up and swallowed, but it's hard to draw a clear line.

Buy me another cake and I'll tell you more on this subject.

Re:So true

Nope, read your EULA. Microsoft has the right to audit at your expense at any time.

Re:So true

Chances are that if you stole the software, you're in violation of the EULA, in which case that right of theirs disappears. How's that for a loophole!?

Re:So true

EULA logic:

1: Retail stores are not required to (and usually do not) accept open-box software returns
2: In order to actually read the EULA, you must open the software box
3: You must accept the EULA to use the software
4: If you do not agree to the EULA, you are instructed to promptly return the software to the store
5: See 1

Re:So true

I don't condone copyright infringement. Now that's out of the way:

The problem is that it sounds as if BSA has near-police powers, which is going too far.

I am also curious if it would backfire. I remember the story a while back where a business got hit with a stiff fine and heavy legal fees. They paid up and simply switched to open source software after that. Commercial software makers would never get another dime from that business beyond the settlement.

Re:So basically, like every other business..

Like "any other business"? Are you on crack? Name the last time you went to a restaurant and had the restaurant company come to your house to "validate" what you are eating? How about the last time you bought a car and Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. came to "validate" your car and how many drivers you have in it or what gas you use? Oh, what about your auto insurance company? When what the last time they came out to "validate" how many miles you drive to work (which does determine your rate)?

Nope. Most companies do not get away with what MS does. Only a monopoly could. I guess you are too young to remember when you couldn't _buy_ a phone? I am not. I remember having to lease phones! Just like we have to "lease" MS Windows.

If you only want to stay in the software world, well, tell me the last time Apple sent out cronies to "police" their install base? Or how about Red Hat? The only companies that can get away with abuse like MS are monopolies.

Too bad MS got off with only a smack on the wrist for their last monopoly conviction.

Please stop making up excuses for the crap that MS does. They are a really nasty company that needs to go down hard.

One more reason to go Linux

Imagine being able to tell the Microsoft auditor to fuck himself/herself, and when the big heavies show up, all they see are peace lovin' penguins fluttering around the office with no short and curlies to grip on to.

Oh the horror!

oh yeah

PC Advisor reports that Microsoft is going to start getting tough with certain small business customers.

They're starting with the small ones, because we all know what would happen if they started with the big ones.

Why now?

Vista!

Why didn't they do this 6 months or a year back? Nope, they're waiting for Vista. Thus is an extra encouragement for people to "Get Legal" and thus get Vista and push up Vista sales numbers.

After a few months people (shareholders, analysts etc) will be looking at Vista sales and they better be selling it like crazy to support all the hype.

For what it is worth...

They're starting with the small ones, because we all know what would happen if they started with the big ones.

It has been my experience that the bigger a company gets and the more money there is floating around the less the PHBs care about workstation OS licenses. It's the little companies who are more likely to try to pinch pennies by cheating on Windows licenses and software licenses in general. When a company gets to a certain size the cost of Workstation OS licenses tend to take second place to the licenses they have to buy for much more complex production software products where the costs can rapidly spiral into huge sums of money that can dwarf what ever they are paying for Windows workstation OS licenses. Most of the larger companies I have worked for actually made regular efforts to check the licensing status of their various departments and paid up the Workstation OS licenses without giving it much thought. Most of the effort went into wringing the last bit of value out of the obscenely expensive production software.

Cringely

Cringely mentioned a while ago that people will disrupt Genuine Advantage as a first offense against Microsoft, so if they get tough with people who have legitimate copies, this will get really interesting, really fast.

Re:Cringely

"BTW, why is it that software is the only product where supply and demand and mass production rules don't apply? Everything else that is mass produced comes down in price, software stays the same or gets more expensive."

Lots of people don't understand the "...and demand" part. Sure, lots of us would like Adobe or Microsoft to sell software for five bucks, and perhaps many of us would only pay five bucks for the latest wares from Adobe or Microsoft. But if there is sufficient demand at a higher price, that's the price at which they will sell it.

Many folks (at least here on Slashdot) think that the ideal point on the supply/demand curve is the point where the product has the most customers. The reality is that it's at the point where the company makes the most profit. Finding this point on the curve that works for your business means understanding the market size, knowing who you want as your customer, and who you don't want as your customer.

More to the point: PhotoShop is $650. Enough people want to buy it at that price to allow Adobe to have a really nice building -- you should see their lobby! Sure, The Gimp is free. But even at free, it's not good enough for a critical mass of users. Lots of Slashdot armchair economics experts don't get this; they parrot the "supply is infinite thus value should be driven to zero" nonsense. Meanwhile, Adobe continues to do quite well selling a few bucks' worth of CDs at $650 a set, while you will have to look far and wide to find any serious designer who's foregone PhotoShop in favor of The Gimp.

Gets Tough?

Initial notice, followed by three written notices prior to any intrusive action? I'm sorry but this does not seem unreasonable nor tough to me. Anyone in the small business league at present SHOULD be adhering to any and all licensing necessary for the software they are using TO PRODUCE A PROFIT. If they aren't, well they best not try to expand beyond the term small business at any time in the future...

Flames as follows:

Re:Gets Tough?

"Anyone in the small business league at present SHOULD be adhering to any and all licensing necessary for the software they are using TO PRODUCE A PROFIT. If they aren't, well they best not try to expand beyond the term small business at any time in the future..."

And if they ARE adhering to any and all licensing necessary for the software they are using, should they still consent to an audit just to put Microsoft's mind at ease?

You are very presumptuous to assume that anyone who is complying with the law would not be offended at needing to PROVE it. If I am expected to trust you to examine my physical private property with nothing other than your word of honour that you aren't going to screw around with it, then you should be willing to accept my word of honour that I am not screwing around with your intellectual property.

And if you aren't willing to accept my word. then too bloody bad. Because my actual private property rights on the physical computer system TRUMP your speculative theory that it is illegal for me to buy 100 computers without buying 100 client licenses of microsoft windows. Obviously I'm using the computers for something OTHER than your software. Until such a time as the law says a person is required to buy quantities and ratios of software as decreed by microsoft, microsoft has no power to compell anyone to comply with such an audit. And threatening that a person will suffer some kind of negative consequence if they don't wave their rights to privacy is extortion, plain and simple.

Re:Gets Tough?

DM9290 brings up very valid points. I was threatened with such an audit. This practice DOES happen ALREADY in the US. MS demanded that I pay them money for suspected license violations (lacking sufficient licenses for the number of machines I had). I politely told them I wasnt sending them anything or letting them on my property. The BSA followed up with a demand for money or a forced audit. I told them (not as politely) to go to hell and I would have any of their personnel arrested and sue them if any of their personnel (or MS's) stepped on my property.

Here's the clincher... our machines were (quite frequently) hit by machines from MS's "internal" network before this - perhaps to ascertain the number of machines we has running. BUT... here's where it gets interesting... all our machines were running OS/2 Warp or Warp Server - except 2 Macs - which were running MacOS 8 and 9. I reminded them that THEY have no control over licensing to OS/2, and even though it wasnt their business I had legal copies of OS/2 for FAR more stations than I had. I then advised both MS & the BSA that I permanently was refusing them the right to enter my property for ANY reason and any such action contrary to that would be considered criminal tresspass as they had been notified in writing. A few more scans of my network and I never heard from them again.

Until my final letter and a few nasty calls to the BSA though, I was being threatened with a 5 figure fine and imprisonment (I didnt know it was their right to make such threats - they were worded as "you will be..." not as "if you are found in violation of, you may be").

Needless to say, what if I was a poor windows user, in full compliance, but bound by MS's idiotic license agreements to allow such behavior?

- RobertMfromLI

PS: And yes, I really was running all OS/2, eComStation or MacOS - no Windows.