P2P Meets PSTN, With Bellster 173
flinderhans writes "Jeff Pulver, the guy who started Free World Dialup (free VoIP network) and had the germ of the idea that turned into Vonage, has launched a P2P network called Bellster that allows users to share their private lines to make calls anywhere on the public-switched telephone network. Interesting stuff, even if it doesn't look quite ready for prime-time."
I remember something like this for bbses (Score:3, Informative)
BBS's? How about almost all intrernet e-mail? (Score:2)
Re:BBS's? How about almost all intrernet e-mail? (Score:2)
Re:BBS's? How about almost all intrernet e-mail? (Score:2)
Re:BBS's? How about almost all intrernet e-mail? (Score:2)
Re:I remember something like this for bbses (Score:3, Interesting)
Back in the good old days I remember dialing into the local university and using their outbound modem lines to dial BBSs all over the country on my friend's father's professor account. That was fun. I even ran a BBS for a while that participated in Fidonet, which was a lot of fun. I would dialup a node in Arizona where I picked up mail feeds from late at night while the long distance rates
"Free" with a big cost (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:"Free" with a big cost (Score:4, Informative)
Re:"Free" with a big cost (Score:3, Informative)
Re:"Free" with a big cost (Score:2)
You really need more than just an ATA since you want to be able to lock-down the dial-plan. Example: you allow 800 numbers because th
Germ of an idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Germ of an idea (Score:1)
"... had the germ of the idea
Considering the comment refers directly to the article I wouldn't call it offtopic...
Re:Germ of an idea (Score:2)
Seeing as there isn't a "clueless fucktard" mod (Score:2)
Re:Germ of an idea (Score:2, Informative)
1) Biology. A small mass of protoplasm or cells from which a new organism or one of its parts may develop.
2) The earliest form of an organism; a seed, bud, or spore.
3)A microorganism, especially a pathogen.
4) Something that may serve as the basis of further growth or development: the germ of a project.
See #2, #4. The usage is correct.
Germ (jûrm) n. (Score:2)
See definition 1, 2, or 4
No thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
I see a lot of issues with this. Too bad it is a neat idea.
Re:No thanks (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you would have a strong case for common carrier status if you provided a dedicated line for this purpose. Of course, the legal bill to prove it could be astronomical.
This is very similar to the early days of UUCP/USENET. Yes, times have changed, but if I get some time, I'll throw a box at this.
Re:No thanks (Score:2)
Re:No thanks (Score:2)
Re:No thanks (Score:2)
Great idea (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Great idea (Score:1)
Re:Great idea (Score:3, Insightful)
The makers have even invited comparison to 'Illegal'
Re:Great idea (Score:2)
Re:Great idea (Score:2)
Re:Great idea (Score:2)
Which would do precicely nothing to break monopolies.
Last mile services (phone, cable, network, gas, electric, etc) are natural monopolies; it's most efficient for there to be a single supplier. The two ways to circumvent the detremental effects of these monopolies are:
Re:Great idea (Score:2)
Obviously, you use the system to access another line, that happens to be (presuming you're making a local call) in your local dialing area. Unless, of course, all these 'P2P' lines are busy (possible because many people outside the area use it to make calls into your area), then users, er, waiters get the next one available in order they re
Re:Just what we needed...Re:Great idea (Score:2)
Skype comes from the same people that brought you Kazaa, and unlike Kazaa, it comes with the full approval of the telecoms regulators in Europe, who consider it to be a good thing.
Is your server running? (Score:4, Funny)
f0ne: *RING*
d00d: Hello?
k1ddi3: Hi, is your server running?
d00d: Yeah.
k1ddi3: Well, you'd better catch it!
d00d: *slam*
k1ddi3: PWN3D!
Re:Is your server running? (Score:2)
Re:Is your server running? (Score:2)
I used it (Score:2, Funny)
Costs (Score:2)
While this is an interesting idea, i cant see how it could save me money, and i can see how the quality would be poorer.
Also, the US is the only place i've lived where local calls were free. In the UK i could get cheaper calls to the US than to my next door neighbor at certain times of day.
Re:Costs (Score:5, Informative)
Also, the US is the only place i've lived where local calls were free.
They usually aren't exactly free. Typically if you read the fine print, there's some deal where the monthly service will include 400 or 500 local calls "free", and then you pay through the nose for additional local calls. I would bet these clauses are there to specifically prevent a re-seller situation like this. An open public line could probably hit the 500 call mark rather quickly.
Re:Costs (Score:2)
Re:Costs (Score:2)
If you read the fine article you'd have noticed that you can set an incoming limit. You could set it to 200 calls per month and not have any problem. Or you can even set it to accept a single call, period. And even that single call gets you 10 credits of long distance outgoing calls.
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Re:Costs (Score:2)
Local calls are free in Hong Kong too.
Re:Costs (Score:2)
Actually they should have always been the same price. Comparing prices from here [telediscount.co.uk]
Re:Costs (Score:2)
You can get long-distance service on your residential line with no per-month charges and no minimums for less than 1.47 cents per minute on six second billing? Where? The only plans that could come close are the flat rate ones where you would need to make something like over 2000 minutes of long-distance calls to break even. It would be a rare month that I use over 500 minutes of long-distanc
Re:Costs (Score:2)
Re:Costs (Score:2)
Why do you need a PBX? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Why do you need a PBX? (Score:2)
Re:Why do you need a PBX? (Score:2)
Won't Work For Me (Score:4, Interesting)
1 to 10? (Score:2)
Re:Won't Work For Me (Score:2)
Even cooler, is pulver's WiSIP phone.. (Score:2)
http://voipstore.pulver.com/product_info.php?prod u cts_id=35 [pulver.com]
I haven't gotten one.. yet. I'm curious how it will handle NAT'd public WiFi spots when you can't poke a hole through the NAT/Firewall. Apparently it still works if it's only NAT'd once (multiple NAT's within NAT's cause the phone to fail I read). Maybe it goes into Poll mode or something.
Still, cool either way.
Re:Even cooler, is pulver's WiSIP phone.. (Score:2)
The worst problem is that some public hotspots wants you to accept a policy in a browser before giving you access to the internet, based on you MAC-address. Zyxel, if you are reading this, please put a robot in the firmware that browse some webpage and hits any button named "OK", "Accept" etc.
Germs? (Score:2, Funny)
Not as new or original as it seems (Score:2)
Hmm.. I wonder.. ISPs get carrier exemptions so they are not responsible for what their customers do. Phone companies also get carrier exemptions, except I believe they have to file for common carrier status (not sure). I wo
Critique (Score:4, Insightful)
So, while I think this is really an awesome adaptation of the technology we have, and certainly a great perspective of what Asterisk is capable of, it'll be a while before this sort of things becomes mainstream and people want to hook up to it.
You must be a young-un... (Score:2)
NO Privacy (Score:5, Insightful)
I have an Asterisk PBX at home, and it is very easy to set the system up to log and record every call. Imagine if I joined Bellster (which I don't plan to, my VoIP services are already insanely cheap) what type of privacy violations I could commit? Granted it would be illeagal to listen to or record a conversation without either parties concent, who would know?
Re:NO Privacy (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:NO Privacy (Score:2)
As it is, my outgoing instate calls are a flat $12.00/mo, and my out of state and incoming toll free are $0.02/minute with International running around $.05/minute. I wouldn't save much with this.
Privacy problems (Score:2)
No Friggin Way... (Score:4, Insightful)
Beyond the toll dialing (which could be prevented by proper configuration of the PBX software), the bigger concerns are leechers (long distance is a huge cost for advertisers), scum (nice, anonymous, robo-dialers with prerecorded spam messages), and tapping (it might be worth it to set up a few PBXs just to listen in on others conversation!).
Even worse is anonymous harrasment over PSTN (Score:2)
Re:Even worse is anonymous harrasment over PSTN (Score:2)
Re:No Friggin Way... (Score:2)
Also, without having run a node myself, I assume you can limit the routing of calls to local numbers only, or only those numbers that you choose to
BS... (Score:2)
Re:BS... (Score:2)
what if you pay for minute on local calls? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:what if you pay for minute on local calls? (Score:2)
Re:what if you pay for minute on local calls? (Score:2)
So you set the incoming usage limit to like 2 calls per month. For the cost of a few local calls you get essentially unlimited free long distance.
Heck, if you don't make many long distance calls you could accept a single incoming call and shut it down. You can then use those 10 credits for lite long distance usage over the next SEVERAL months.
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Mehster (Score:2)
Seems like everyone and his uncle is coming up with a ****-ster type site.
Heh.
Re:Mehster (Score:2)
Seems like everyone and his uncle is coming up with a ****-ster type site.
I hear Napster was named that because it was the author's nickname. (He tended to carry a napsack everywhere he went.)
Of course once Napster caught on big and received major media attention, nearly everybody doing a peer-to-peer application who needed/wanted a large user community to make it useful, would name it "(something)ster" to attract user attention and create the appropriate
Re:Mehster (Score:2)
Re:Mehster (Score:2)
Now that you point it out, it IS funny. B-)
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Once you have an asterisk box you might not care (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Once you have an asterisk box you might not car (Score:2)
So I have little interest in sharing my phone line, and even less interest in paying $0.02/minute via cheap VOIP providers.
Now, if they decided to extend the idea to, say, set up a couple Verizon Freedom lines in every state (actually, "in every state" is not necessary; just set up a couple hundred lines anywhere), and then use those to call out from, then it might make more sense.
I still wouldn't offer my
Talk about getting ripped off. (Score:2)
similar system for faxing 10 years ago (Score:2)
Anyway, if anyone remembers what I'm talking about in more detail, please refresh my memory.
Re:similar system for faxing 10 years ago (Score:2)
Yeah, it was handy.
Other than the problem with obscene calls originated from one's POTS line, I wonder what one could do if one already had a pay VoIP service, like Vonage. I can make free calls to anywhere in Canada and the U.S. for a nominal fixed monthly charge. I don't think that Vonage would like the idea of me patching out going calls from Bellster and offering U.S./Canada calling, even if I don't explicitly charge for them (reselling, and all that).
Land lines (Score:3, Informative)
1. Local calls are not free in most of the world. This limit the use for long-distance calls.
2. Most people into this kind of stuff will be dropping their land line and use pure VoIP (including IP->PSTN service) + cell phones.
I live in Denmark and switched to VoIP (musimi.dk).
IP-IP calls are 0 c/min. Including calls to FWD, SipPhone etc.
Local PSTN calls are 2.5 c/min (1.6 at night).
DK->CA PSTN calls are 2.9 c/min
DK->US PSTN calls are 3.2 c/min
Subscription is $1/month/phonenumber.
Of course I wouldn't mind using Bellster to make free calls to the US/Canada, but I cannot offer much in return.
Re:Land lines (Score:2)
And yes, that works out to a good deal for everyone. As you said you'd likely be making calls to US and Canada where local calls are a flat rate for the month. We wouldn't mind at all "throwing away" lots of our free
Like any p2p app, this'll start good and end bad. (Score:2, Interesting)
I am sure that there are various unscrupulous companies out there, jsut waiting for something like this to reach critical mass. When that happens, BAM. 3rd world telemarketers start to pester the everloving crap out of you.
Regulation, for good or ill, is there for a reason. The restrictions that are in place just as much protect the consumer as it is to restrict their choice. And while we are all too aware of the restrictions, we take the protection for granted. Take those regulations aw
Not Falling for That One Again (Score:2)
Hows about using this for phising (Score:2)
If this gets widespread public adoption (unlikely) then i'm sure some users will try to place confidential calls using the service.
Secondly, what about places that use your phone number to authenticate you. Some pizza places seem to know your address the first time you call - could be useful for prank calling.
What about three-way calling. Ie Perso
Community networks (Score:2)
I believe if this network is going to survive, it'll be by allowing the creation of such trusted communities.
I have no idea what PSTN is. (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Asterisk is more accessible than suggested (Score:3, Informative)
However, you set the barrier to entry way too high: Asterisk doesn't require a shiny new "PBX-ready" PC. You can choose any of the following bootable CDs to turn any old PC into an Asterisk box with just a Control-Alt-Delete. Not a PC fan? Asterisk now runs on Mac OSX, too. Now the only real barrier is the hardware, an FXO interface to connect to your POTS line. Just such an interface is reasonably priced at Digium.com, the makers of Asterisk.
Bootable Asterisk CDs:
http://knopsterisk.com/
http://www.automat
http://www.xorcom.com/rapid/
htt
Don't want to spend all that just to join the free love revolution that Bellster hopes to be? Well, Asterisk has tons of other uses, like being a PBX for your home or office, too. Set up mailboxes for each member of the office or household. Email an incoming voice message automatically. Zap the telemarketers that don't pay attention to the do-not-call list. The list goes on as far as your imagination: Asterisk makes computer telephony accessible to everyone with a computer. Even if Bellster isn't the future of telephony, Asterisk is.
Re:Hmmm except local calls aren't always free (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm except local calls aren't always free (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm except local calls aren't always free (Score:2)
everything in the 865 area code is a free call for me.
Re:Hmmm except local calls aren't always free (Score:2, Interesting)
Can anybody else report where they are free?
Incidentally, in the late 90s when I was living in London I visited New York. I went into a news agent and bought a cheap call card, and dialed my neighbour in London, from a phonebox in downtown Manhattan. Later I worked out that I had paid about the same for the call as if I had called him from my house next door to him (2p a minute during the day or something... I have forgotten the numbers).
Re:Hmmm except local calls aren't always free (Score:2)
In NZ, local calls are free, but traffic isn't. (Score:2)
So, let's say we're using G.729 at 8kbps (GSM), this gives us ~23kbps (8kbps for the payload + overhead), with a resulting cost of:
195kbytes/minute (* 2 channels) =
If we use the less frugal G.711 codec(64kpbs), it costs us:
4788kbytes/minute (* 2 channels) = 10cUS/minute.
The G.711 cost doesn't sound like much until you start counting hours or da
Re:In NZ, local calls are free, but traffic isn't. (Score:2)
The real costs are:
G711 -
G729 - 1.19 c US/minute.
I think, maybe, unless I've slipped a digit again...
Re: (Score:2)
That's just wrong (Score:2)
BT Option 3 gives you unlimited local AND national calls for 25 quid/month, which is even cheaper than most plans in the USA (Verizon start around $50 or $60 / month depending on the state).
The reason your phonebill is so high is probably due to the cost of calling mobiles, which is still scandalously high.
Re:Hmmm except local calls aren't always free (Score:2)
Re:VoIP INSTEAD of PSTN (Score:2)
One way to avoid cost is to avoid long distance charges, and costly "feature packages" from your LEC. And one way to avoid those costs is use some flavor of VoIP.
Re:What about Net2phone? (Score:2)
There are many of those too. Here's a partial list:
* IP Phone --> IP Network --> IP Phone
* IP Phone --> IP Network --> PSTN --> POTS Phone
* POTS Phone --> VoIP Adapter --> IP Network --> IP Phone
* POTS Phone --> VoIP Adapter --> IP Network --> VoIP Adaptor --> POTS Phone
* POTS Phone --> VoIP Adapter --> IP Network --> PSTN --> POTS Phone
BTW,