Ghost In The Shell 2: Innocence

timbloid writes "I spotted on Ain't it cool news that Mamoru Oshii's new anime Innocence Ghost In The Shell 2's website is now open! The trailer is beautiful! But I can't help thinking a translated version is some time off from the 2004 Japanese release... Maybe it would be faster for me to learn Japanese?"

Why learn Japanese?

Just wait for the universal Esperanto version.

Re:Why learn Japanese?

When someone can translate it for you.

(cyborg)
Batou is a living doll.

His arms, his legs, everything in his body was made.
all that is left is a little brain and, the memory of a woman.

A lonely soul's promiscuity.

Directed by Oshii Mori. (I think... not too good with names yet.)

Innocence
This is life.

Spring 2004

(Yes, I am a karma whore)

___________

Translations...

"Maybe it would be faster for me to learn Japanese?"

I think it's better to watch a film in the language it's created in [planetmirror.com]. Who knows if the translation is correct? Isn't it better to hear the real actors, and listen to the sounds they make, as opposed to some translated version?

A large piece of the meaning and fluidity of a film is lost in translation.

I can remember sitting around a table of French friends of mine, not knowing a word of French myself, and it was still interesting to listen to them, like a fly on a wall. You don't know what's being said, but the experience has it's own merits.

There's something really cool about watching anime in Japanese that gives a kind of simplicity to the plot and idea of the film. Because you have no idea what's being said, you can kind of guess, and that adds some of your immagination to the mix. It delivers a kind of Zen, IMHO. And with the visuals in the trailer of Ghost In the Shell 2, who cares what language it's in!! Gimmie!! Gimmie!!

Re:Translations...

I happen to think there are some movies which can be enjoyed without knowing a single word of dialog. Ghost in the shell is not one of these. The questions it poses about life and what it means to be human are something that you really need to hear and understand to enjoy.

Re:Translations...

The following link [americakokki.com] should give you a kick start on learning Japanese, uh, I mean English.

Re:Translations...

> Who knows if the translation is correct?

Well, hopefully the translator.

> A large piece of the meaning and fluidity of a film is lost in translation.

Well, it depends, who guessed it, on the translator, and the voice actors.

IRC, there are even some films out there, which were more successful in a different language, because of the translation.

The translation is a work in itself, which, depending on the ability of the translator, can be a shallow copy of the original, or even better than the original (Especially, if the original is of poor quality)

I can undestand the other reason, but how can you prefer the original in a language you do not understand over a translated version, on the reason of loss in fluidity and meaning?

I prefer to watch english films in the original, although I have some problems understanding the spoken word. But still, I have the feeling, I'm not quite getting some details of the film. Most problematic are jokes. Partly because of cultural discrepancies, partly because I'm busy understanding the language.

In other words, I'm experience a loss in meaning and fluidity. And I guess that will always be the case, unless one lived a while in that nation, so one has a better grip of the language and culture.

A grip, a translator surely has.

Considering the two or three english dubs of Anime, I've seen, I can understand, why some people are avoiding them. But I wouldn't consider Ghost in the Shell as one of them.

> And with the visuals in the trailer of Ghost In the Shell 2, who cares what language it's in!!

Well, as long it isn't Polish, I'm fine with it :).
Considering the previous Ghost-in-the-Shell film, I'd say it'd be a loss missing the monologues.

Ghost is great non anime lovers.

I love the original ghost because it convinces many who didn't think they would like anime that it isn't "just a cartoon". Although today anime is becoming "cool", when I was in high school it was pretty fringe. When ghost came out, I showed it to quite a few people who didn't know what anime was, and most had a much better appreciation for the fact that "cartoons" could tell a compelling story.

Of course, it isn't for the squeamish...

Re:Ghost is great non anime lovers.

Anime allows storytellers to explore sci-fi and fantasy genres without the budget breaking special effects, so they are common to see those genres expressed. But that isn't all that is done in the anime tradition. At the other end of the scale you can find sitcoms and love stories. Studio Ghibli is another great entry point into the style:

http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/films/

Just about anything here is good, but Kiki's Delivery Service and Spirited Away are two of my favorites. Kiki's has fantasy only insomuch as Kiki is a witch, but the storyline (something which American entertainment has forgotten about) is one of coming to terms with oneself.

Grave of the Fireflies is one of the most heart wrenching stories ever told in any style.

As for the overweight white guys: they are called otaku (fanboy) and are a part, but not the whole, of those who love the style. I'm in my mid thirties, married with a son, own my own company, am part owner of another and rock climb so I don't *get* fat. Not all those who watch anime are otaku.

To finally answer your question: animation allows for stories that would be difficult to tell in another way without breaking a budget. It also allows for artistic expression and styles that can't be captured with a camera. If American animators were blinded by the "for children only" mindset, amazing stories could be told here as well.

The Simpsons and the other "adult" cartooning have raised the bar a hair, but it only raises it to "sitcom" from "child humor". I would love to see an home grown cartoon that explored storylines written as well as those in good anime. (And no, Heavy Metal's psuedo porn doesn't count).

Re:Ghost is great non anime lovers.

mon, this isn't flamebait...name one anime fan YOU know, moderator, who DOESN'T have a SINGLE tentacle porn /me raises hand.

Not a single one. I've seen a few, but they simply don't cut it for me.

The anime target consumer is a child. The reason full-grown adults in America flock to anime is unknown at this time.

The reason "full-grown adults"--which is, of course, a misnomer; we're really talking about 20-30 somethings--flock to anime is threefold.

Firstly, it's originaly targeted at or near the comparable market in Japan.

Secondly, a good portion of the anime watching crowd grew up watching imported animation from Japan, and so it's logical that they'd move on to more complex stories in the same medium.

Thirdly, anime's been a trendy thing on college campuses for years now.

And, of course, there's always that "do something that's not stupid but that mom & dad won't get" drive.

Flash

Flash.. Ahhhh~ Savior of the universe.

Seriously tho. Who designed this page? I mean, I love anime, and Im fairly confident that this is going to be a wonderful (and profitable) movie, but fullscreening to a black "loading" page right away?

How about some basic design principals?!

Learning Japanese

A much better site for information on learning Japanese is at U. Mass. [umass.edu]

Re:Learning Japanese

Not in my experience -- Japanese (under 35, anyway) are huge!

That's because they're all wearing powered combat armour. The people inside are actually quite small.

Maybe it would be faster for me to learn Japanese?

Maybe it would be faster for me to learn Japanese?

So long as you are not turning Japanese [lyricsxp.com] that will be fine.

GITS:Innocence

Looks good, very eye-candy like the first GITS, however, will it have the content to go with the eye-candy? The first movie (IMHO) had the problem of being very good looking, however, the story was a bit of a let down. Also, the story in the movie didn't follow the manga correctly, with many parts not happening in the manga. However, I can understand how there would be problems converting from a manga to a OVA or movie.

Also, I would say that the US will not be seeing the movie until sometime in 2005. I personaly am looking forward to GITS:Stand Allow Complex, both the series and the manga.

Re:GITS:Innocence

Then GITS:Stand Alone Complex is the one for you! 26 episodes in the current run, and was renewed for another 26. Fansubs currently only exist up to 22 because the title was licensed for translation and distribution recently. No idea what the timeline is for release, though.

Episde Guide [destroy-all-monsters.com]

Not that far off?

But I can't help thinking a translated version is some time off from the 2004 Japanese release...

The original GitS had a simultaneous theatrical release in Japan, the US and the UK. So, you might not have to wait that long after all. Oh, and I'm sure the fansubbers will be all over it as fast as possible. I saw a TeleSync of the Cowboy Bebop movie two weeks after its Japanese premier.

Learn Japanese

You can learn Japanese in about a year, if you are living in the country.
If you're not American, look into the Working Holiday Visa.

Learning Japanese

"Maybe it would be faster for me to learn Japanese?"

I would say that you can't really grasp Japanese language without living in Japan for a while. I can say that after taking Japanese in High School and College and getting top marks in both, my Japanese skills turned out to be pathetic when I finally got to Japan.

That being said, after a few years of diving into the language (by which I mean being thrown in the deep end of the pool), I could function fairly well as an interpreter.

The big thing is to go to Japan and speak Japanese, even if you can't. Hanging around with other English speakers all the time and/or copping out and trying to get them to speak English will get you nowhere. The average english teacher I see in Japan can't speak a lick of Japanese even after several years. Why? because they either do not want to learn or constantly take the easy way out.

Learning Japanese

You can learn Japanese in about a year, if you are living in the country. If you're not American, look into the Working Holiday Visa option. There are also some excellent exchange programs with generous scholarships to students.

Ghost in the Shell : Stand Alone Project

If you want more of the GITS i suggest checking out this anime series. It takes place in a different timeline where Mokoto Kusangi never encountered the Puppet Master.

It has been fansubbed by a few groups and I believe it is licensed for US release as well.

GITS : SAC

FYI: There is also a series - Ghost in the Shell : Stand Alone Complex.
It's currently aired in Japan - there have been some Fansubs, but most have stopped since it was licenced in the US.
I have seen the first few episodes and can highly recommend them.

Multiple uses of the language

You can learn the language just to understand the movie and then sell your talents as a translator to people who import Anime or video games from Japan and really want to understand them (so much so that they'd pay for it).

Get some practical use outta it, right? ;)

Subtitles

Learning to read english is probably easier. Then you can watch the movie with subtiles.

Damn...

For a bit I thought people were talking about the release of GitS: Standalone Complex in the US.

Biggest problem with anime

I think the biggest problem anime currently faces in the US is not translation, or people not liking sub-titles. It comes down to two things:
People expect anime to be childrens cartoons, because that's all american cartoons are (in general)
or
People look for a traditional western storyline, and they can't handle characters who are both good and bad, and stories that deal with multiple social issues, without offering panaceas at the end.

It takes a unique type of American to enjoy an anime, and until the rest of the country realizes the walls they have up, and takes them down, and appreciates anime for the beautiful deep art it is, anime won't be widely accepted.

What does this have to do with GITS? I would love to see that movie on a big screen, but unless I catch it at a local college, I've got no chance. We need to change American preconceptions so that we can watch our movies the way they were meant to be watched!

I often show friends the movie Princess Mononoke(sp?), and they say, "Wow, that was incredible!", and I tell them, "There are more movies like that, and a lot that are better than that." But no one has ever heard of it, because the american public can't understand or be bothered to try and understand an animated cartoon not aimed at children, or that doesn't hinge on humour. Sure, Pixar has gotten animation into the mainstream, but all of pixars movies are considered "Funny" and "child-safe".

Just my 3.5 cents.

Huh?

I never heard of this "Ghost in the" shell.

For me, you still can't beat Bourne.

A Sequel?

Considering the abrupt and seemingly unfinished ending of the first movie, I'm no so sure I want to get too worked up over a sequel.

Soon after there is a Japanese video release

Fansubbed divx and/or xvid releases will make their way to your local bittorrent search engine.

yes, indeed.

Subject is in answer to :
trailer is beautiful!

Looks like there's a lot of computer graphics in it...

BTW, Lots of us see the original GITS as the movie that got plagiarized by the Wachowskis.

It's nice to see an incoming sequel of the original thing.

If you liked Blade Runner, See This

It is very similar to Blade Runner, in that it gets us to question, if robots/artifical intelligence, can think, feel, and sense things, are they any less human than we are? The original Ghost in the Shell made us think, while at the same time entertaining us. Very few movies do this. I personally hope that this is just as great as the original, I expect it to be.

Interesting choice of music...

I was very surprised at what I heard when I opened the trailer--the song that goes through the whole thing is set to the melody of Joaquin Rodrigo's 'Concierto del Aranguez', one of the very few classical concertos for guitar. Interesting to hear the piece arranged for voice and hand drums :)

Trailer Bit Torrent Link

Bit Torrent link for the trailer: http://www.filerush.com/torrents/gits_2-innocence_ trailer-japanese-480.mov.torrent [filerush.com]

Wait for fansub

Fansubs will come out in less than a month. You can then read your way through, along with the subs of the songs.

Ghost in the Shell

You know... I haven't updated one my sites in EONS... I wrote a document called 'Ghost in the Shell [antioffline.com]' that surprisingly gets about 3000 hits a week on Google searches. Not much, but certainly enough to know the interest GITS generates. I've done the anime thing a while back, now I only have time for Jenna, Chasey, and other starlets

I sure hope it's better than the manga...

I never thought I would say this about a Masamune Shirow manga, but GITS2 sucked!

Instead of brilliant mecha design and architecture, we get variations on "butt floss girl floating in cyberspace." Which I guess is his new variation on "butt floss girl climbing out of mecha." It's like "Cable Porn: The Manga."

I actually cancelled my order at the local comic shop after issue 3 came out.

I've talked to other people whe have also been turned off of Shirow recently because of the cheese. It's kind of sad, he's still a talented artist, but he seems to have lost all perspective on reality.

Jon Acheson

Foreign Language and Computer Programming?

That language instruction link [japanese-online.com] seems really freakin' cool! I've toyed with the idea of learning Japanese for a while now. Maybe I'll finally find the motivation to try it out with this.

I've recently had a conversation with a friend of mine who runs a tech staffing agency about foreign language study amongst computer programmers. Both programming and foregin languages have always been an interest of mine. I was surprised to hear from him that this is actually "not unusual at all", and that in his mind the two interests have always gone hand in hand. I was wondering if anyone else here might have noticed this correlation?

Fansub?

If the english version is delayed... there's almost certainly going to be some fansubs around the net beforehand. If you're feeling impatient, you could always grab a copy of the japanese DVD (to be legit) and then download a fansub so you can understand the movie better.

"Ghost in the Shell" Mouse -- Obligatory Link

It only seems appropriate to provide a link to the limited edition Ghost in the Shell Mouse [shinza.com], just in case anime fans haven't heard of it. This mouse was designed by Masamune Shiro and is really quite a sight to behold. I love the ergonomics, light weight, and 800 count resolution, but I'm probably biased. ;)

US Release by Dreamworks

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/3341.html [icv2.com]

Dreamworks To Distribute Ghost In The Shell II
In Spring Of 2004

August 14, 2003
Screen Daily reports that Dreamworks SKG has formed a specialty distribution arm, Go Fish, which will distribute its first film, Satoshi Kon's Millenium Actress, on September 12 in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and San Francisco. Dreamworks set up Go Fish just after Warner Bros. announced the launch of Warner Independent Pictures, which will release films from independents and small production companies. While Go Fish will undoubtedly release its share of indie films, the second film announced by Dreamworks was Ghost In The Shell II: Innocence, the follow-up to the extremely successful science fiction anime feature, Ghost In The Shell, which was directed by Mamoru Oshii and based on the manga series by Masamune Shirow (published in the U.S by Dark Horse). It should be interesting to see if Dreamworks primarily uses Go Fish to compete with Warners for indie films or to gain a beachhead for anime feature films in the rough and tumble arena of theatrical exhibition.

Ghost in the Shell II is in the final stages of production in Japan, and Go Fish plans to release the feature film late in the first half of 2004. Back in 1996 the original Ghost In the Shell film made a major impact in the U.S. and launched a plethora of successful tie-in products including posters, statues, art books, manga, and action figures. With a Ghost in the Shell TV series (see "Bandai Gets Ghost In the Shell TV Series") set to debut in the U.S. and the merchandising potential of a second Ghost In The Shell movie (see "New Ghost In The Shell Movie"), this property is poised to take off once again.

GitS Already Licensed for US

Dreamworks has already licensed the film, and will release it under their Go Fish label next spring, practically simultaneous with the Japanse premier. So quit bellyaching about a long wait.

In addition, the aforementioned TV series, GitS:Stand Alone Complex, has also been licensed by Bandai Entertainment USA, which actually helped finance it. It should see domestic DVD next year, probably about the same time as the movie is released to theatres.

fansubs

Maybe it would be faster for me to learn Japanese?

No, it would be faster to wait a couple hours for the fansubbers to do their subtitle translation on the pirate version of the movie (that you'll obviously replace with the official DVD when released, right?). fansubs are very often better than the official translations anyway, and include handy cultural notes.

--

yaaa!

yaaa, baby! I like it liek that... I like it like that! The sequel to one of the greatest animated features ever made is coming!!!! Feel the power!

Song?

Wow. What a beautiful mood-setting trailer. But then, at the end, some guys says INNOCENCE! In the most jarring way possible.

Anyone know the name of the song used?

Fansubbing

I work with a major fansubbing group, and I can tell you that within a week of its release this movie will be fansubbed by at least half a dozen groups.

Of course the quality of the video and translation will vary, but if you wait a couple weeks there should be some excellent work out there. Right now fansubbing groups do work that far surpasses commercial releases in terms of translation accuracy and subbing quality.

Anime vs Hollywood

Some posts mention how Anime still hasn't gained mainstream acceptance. Although from my perspective, this is probably a good thing, there's a lot more to the issue than some assume. Hollywood is built on promoting "personalities." Americans have always been attracted to films by the Actors, which is why some get paid so much! The whole concept of Anime is foreign to this culture, being more "oriented" (ouch) towards visual art than performance. Mainstream acceptance is bound to be very slow.

for those of you who are Quicktime challenged...

i will convert it to whatever format you like as long as someone is good enough to host it.

Captions

Captions:
"Within a cyborg, there is a heart."
"She has arms and legs and everything else that makes up her body."
"But the memories that remain behind..."
"...are that of a woman alone."
"A lonely ghost's chance encounter"
Director/writer: Mamoru Oshii INNOCENCE
"Innocence... such is existence."
My Japanese is a little dodgy but I think that's the essence of it.

Please someone release a fansub

Preferrably two weeks before the movie comes out.

We are Soldats! Well I'm not but someone is providing top notch fansubs out there.

STAND ALONE COMPLEX

"STAND ALONE COMPLEX [bandaivisual.co.jp]" is pretty good too. Its a 26 episode TV series done in the Ghost universe, by Production IG [production-ig.co.jp].

It gets better as it goes along. Not as hardcore as the movie or comic though.

If you want to study Japanese, check out this site:

For Men.

Looks like a damn Kalvin Klein ad.

yay

Oh yes! I have been waiting for some closure to the story for years! I cant belive it was so short, when half of it was sequences with bad bad music and no action.

Music in trailer

Does anyone know who sings the song in the trailer?

What's that music?!

The snippet of song accompanying this trailer is simply breathtaking. Does anyone know what the song, or who the singer, is? I've tried google'ing some lyrics, to no avail.

Re:Anime Sucks..

Why the hell is this rated Interesting and not Flamebait? Japanese animation isnt all about raping and sex no more than all American films is hardcore pornography.

There are some great and funny, not to mention hardwarming movies and series in this genre. Open your eyes, and stop being so discriminating.

Re:Anime Sucks..

what's with the continued fascination with japanimation?? Aren't you people too old for this now?

I got over it once I learned it was a lot more fun smoking, drinking, and fucking, than watching some big-eyed orange spiky haired cartoon getting raped by tentacle monsters.

what's with the continued fascination with anonymous posting?? Aren't you too old for this now?

I got over it once I learned it was a lot more fun taking responsibility for my posting, than hiding behind my mommy's skirt as I post trolls and flamebait.

Slashdot WAS dying this am.

Did you see the smileys instead of Friend/Fan? weird.

Older than that

It's a lot more fun smoking, drinking, and fucking until you have had your fill. When this happens you either grow up and go back to things that are more intellectual or you become a drunken bum who no one wants to have sex with anyways. Either way, you'll be back. There's no escape from the tentacle monsters!

Re:Anime Sucks..

I've been asked that before.

My personal preference of Anime is that I feel animation is a more solid medium to present a story. And japenese animation has historically been better than many of the US attempts. Likewise, Japenese animation is more likey to show the darker side of things: people die, blood is spilled, war, etc. Meanwhile, US animation is too "Disney-esque", pandering to the G-rated demographic, or trying to get kids to buy their merchandise.

Some people prefer black-and-white films, other like musicals, and I even know a few people that like silent films. It's just a preference on how the film is portrayed, and I personally like a WELL drawn animation so long as it has a good story and isn't some lame kids show.

In movies, you have wooden actors playing the lead roles because teenage girls think they are cute, and a bimbo playing the leading lady because she has big cleavage.

And most importantly, there are some things that actors can't do (mostly stunts). Sure, you can add special affects, but they sometimes don't look too special.

The settings are another benefit. Some of the greatly drawn anime has settings that you cannot replicate on a stage without it looking "tacky" or fake (CGI), and in some cases look almost heavenly. Lush forests, planet-scapes, buildings, some of it are works of art.

Animation CAN allow a story to be truly delivered the way it was meant ot be delivered. The character can look exactly like the author originally imagined him/her as. The stunts can look more fluid (all-be-it impossible to perform in real life). Essentially the entire film can be presented in a pure unadulterated form.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of bad animation out there. And, like anything else, it can be watered down to some fluff that only kids like (such as Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc). And the tentacle thing (while a stereotypical description of anime) occurs in more "shady" shows, it's not like its everywhere. You must just be downloading some porn like "La Blue Girl" or something.

All I ask is that some of you people not just label it as some kiddy-show or porn. There's a lot of anime out there that's deep and meaningful, all-the-while being beautifully drawn.

Re:Is this dangerous

I'm really going to hope you're kidding. Really. There are far more things to blame 'moral degeneration' on that Japanese freaking cartoons - hell, if anything, they (may) have contributed to the tech boom - which doesn't deem like a comedown to me.
Besides - I'm not sure how crushing other people with anvils, burning them, blowing them up, running them over is any better than what the Japasese 'toons are showing. (With a few non-televised exceptions, of course...)

Re:In case of slashdotting:

Stylized 'F' box box box squiggly squiggly Flash squiggly squiggly box box box box box box

Yep, sounds like a typical anime dubbing to me.

Re:Is this dangerous

Are you saying that the great inventors, innovators and opportunists of our country learned their morals from steamboat willie cartoons? Thinking that a childs morals are the responsiblity of the entertainment industry is the real problem. I hope your last comment was sarcasam because if you really meant it than I sure hope you don't have kids. 'Here son I don't have the time to teach you the difference between right and wrong so sit in front of this television and it will reveal it all to you.'

Re:Is this dangerous

It's people like you that make me ashamed to be American. You're saying "Them Jap's are poisening the minds of our young-uns." That is a load of horse manuer. (Note, that quote is to make a point about closed-minded Americans, I mean no offense with any of the slang in there).

The "American mindset" is completely different that the rest of the world. We fill our shows and movies with SCORES OF VIOLENCE, while Europeans look at what we watch/produce and are disgusted. Sure, you can say "well, they have all 'them naked ladies on the teli" but it's just a cultural difference.

Face it, we have nobody to blame for our current cultural and industrial situation than ourselves. We've ALL become too lazy, becoming a nation of consumers and not producers. Saying that it's Japan's fault or our children's fault is complete nonsense.

And what "quality cartoons" do you speak of? The old Hannah-Barbara cartoons that were written for the minds of 4-year-olds, or "the Smurfs" with their rand-dictator Papa?

Face it, showing our kids culture from other countries would inspire them (except for Pokemon and the like). Face it, Japanese cartoons show a less Eutopian view of the world than some of the dreck we've created. They also get kids involved in technology, as much of it is focuses around it.

And most importantly, Anime MOVIES ARE ALMOST ALWAYS VERY DEEP!!! There's usually heavy metaphor in a movie, with a deep moral being presented at the end. Such themes as "we control our own destiny", "being superior takes second to heart/ambition/and just wanting it more", and "we must stop teading on the environment with our industrialistic mindset."

In short, stop being such a stereotypical American. Open your mind to other cultures, and stop blaming others for your kids' problems.

Re:Anime Sucks..

Please. Liquor and cigarettes are bad for you. Both will induce impotence and deaden sexual sensitivity. Stick to acid, E, little bit of nitrous and surrealist anime porn. Preserves sensitivity and doesn't ruin your ability to show a lady a good time.

Re:A Friend Suggested GitS as Example of Good Anim

Hmm... I think your full of shit. Or more to the point, I think you've got just as much of a knee-jerk reaction against anime as you accuse fans of having in favor of it. Sure, as with any form or genre there are those who will forgive any shortcoming out of pure dedication to the form. But there are plenty of legitimate critics of cinema who recognize the highest acheivements in anime as taking a valid place alongside live action films.

I'm particularly bemused by your criticisms of "iconic visual style." Apparently you judge a visual presentation based on your assessment of the technical complexities of acheiving it? I judge it based on the visual impact the composition has on me. Who the fuck cares if it was easy or difficult to make (like you know shit about the relative complexity of creating an effect in one medium versus another anyway... offhand I'd say drawing fog beautifully is a fuck of a lot more effort than paying some tech to plug in a fog machine)? Either it works visually or it doesn't. Maybe you're missing some of the subtle nuances because you're peripheral vision is being blocked by that enormous chip on your shoulder.

Re:In other news....

I've come to realize that paintings and drawings actually suck, because photos have much clearer resolution. In fact, many times the drawn or painted subject looks nothing like the object in question! Those artists are not going to get their obligatory 'wow' from me though. I mean, it's a completely controlled environment. They didn't actually have to arange fog machines or lights. I mean, the nerve of those people, using and communicationg with their imagination! What a bunch of pretentious assholes!

I get the impression that when fans sit down to look at a painting, all standards which they might otherwise apply go right out the window...because it's ART!!

Losers. I'll keep my pixel perfect interpretation of the world. thank you very much

Re:A Friend Suggested GitS as Example of Good Anim

Most of the problems you mention are not percieved to be problems at all by most people. I don't know where you got this business about fluid animation, can you tell me where it is written down that animation must be fluid? Is it in a book? some proclamation? Comic book animation is much less fluid, but no one complains about that. Maybe you can artfully tell a scene without 24 frames per second even, god forbid!

As for your complaint about story line and it being too wrapped up in its own visual beauty. You could look at those as plusses. GitS as a story is not 'Original' in the same sense that the godfather is not 'original'. It's appeal transcends its lack of originality in the same way the godfather does. It engages you in its world, it has well built characters. Who draw you into the story in GitS own curious way. It draws on various motifs to bring about a cohesive impression and explanation of the universe in which GitS is placed. Finally it gives you a story you can latch onto. What are you looking for!

As for cinematic effects I think you're completely off your rocker. FX in anime as well as in normal cinema are equal with the arival of CG. The matrix was in fact based on anime! Good animation takes a lot of time, and a lot of money. I'm just as impressed when I view a big budget anime that went all out on certain scenes with intense detail as I am when I see a big budget hollywood flick with SFX, more even because big budget anime scenes tend to be more aesthetic than gee whiz.

Lastly, downcast angst poses and other such cliches are present in SOME not ALL anime. Just as they are present in SOME not ALL 35mm films. In fact, since most films suck, they are about as common in both!

It seems that everything you've named that's bad about anime is either totally subjective (your hatred of the low FPS) or totally bullshit because you name characteristics that are common to both schools of cinema.

Re:A Friend Suggested GitS as Example of Good Anim

Please elaborate on how the plot of GitS is "confused".

I used to have an opinion along these lines, however after watching the movie several times I've found the plot to not only make sense but often do it in suprisingly subtle and intricate ways.

Re:A Friend Suggested GitS as Example of Good Anim

You lost me at "Animation was horrible".

Hey, I'm 13!

And I want to tell you that Cowboy Bebop is totally rad, dude, like completely cool! Beebop, beebop... I love the music too. If you haven't seen it, you're an old square, and that goes for you too, Mr. "Payed Ad" Coward!

Re:Is this dangerous

>>make kids go back to watching quality cartoons???

what quality cartoon are you talkinb about??

seriously! please! I'd like to know!

Re:Payed Ad

William Gibson's book "Pattern Recognition" touches on this. The example involves attractive women going to a bar and chatting up men about a new movie. The movie studio is paying the woman to speak favorably about the movie.

Re:fansubs

Let's hope one of the GOOD fansub groups gets a hold of it first. Live-eviL, AnbuONE, or Real would be nice.

It looks like someone has a non-Unicode OS!

Naughty, naughty. I thought we fixed that when we made your system Y2K compliant. Well, here's your ticket number:

box box box box 901 box 3394 (illegible)

Don't let me catch you doing that to me.

Or I'll fucking cut your balls off.

Ta.

Re:A Friend Suggested GitS as Example of Good Anim

Do me one favor Watch the movie "Grave of the Fireflies" This is a brilliant drama which I use to show other people who don't know anime that it can be a great medium to tell a story. I might not agree with your opinion on anime on this point, but please watch this movie, it might change your mind. PS. I haven't seen all episodes yet of the GITS series, but from what I've seen it's worth a score of 7 out of 10. Animation is good, so is the music. Can't say much about the story myself yet.