U.S. Ranks 17th in Freedom of the Press

reimero writes "According to this article on Yahoo! Germany the U.S. has experienced "serious restrictions" in freedom of the press, according to Reporters without borders' first worldwide press freedom index. Finland, Iceland, Norway and the Netherlands came in tops. An interesting study, to say the least."

how scary is it ...

... that an article about lack of freedom of the press in the US, is published in germany?

Re:how scary is it ...

...that .fr is suddenly the country code for Germany.

The original index of freedom of the press is on a French server. An article ABOUT it was published in Germany.

OH MY GOD

...that .fr is suddenly the country code for Germany.

The Germans have annexed France again! Send the boys back in!

Re:how scary is it ...

that an article about lack of freedom of the press in the US, is published in germany?

In germany the freedom of press is regarded almost as valueable as the human rights.

And we dont live in the 1940th anymore, mind you.

Re:how scary is it ... (translation)

Babelfished and then cleaned up that last post: (but I don't speak German)
The United States stood at 17 in a world-wide index of the journalist organization "reporter without borders" [press release]. "serious restrictions on the freedom of the press" were registered however on each continent, communicated the [rights organization] on Wednesday in Berlin. Among the 20 countries with the "roughest offences" were European countries former Soviet republics, African, asiatic and Latin American states. Italy was the worst European candidate with a rank 40. Germany fared quite well in the rankings. European Union hopeful Turkey placed 99'th.

Rumors also have...

... that the US doesn't have the best health system in the world, that the US doesn't have the best pension system in the world, and, globally, that the US are not the best place to live in the world.

Of course, there are place far worse than the US. It just isn't the best, it seems.

Re:Rumors also have...

Yeah, but things like health care and pensions are not in our Constitution. A *right* like freedom of the press IS protected from Government intrusion by our Constitution. So don't lump these all together.

But I do not believe the problem is any Government intrusion on that right. It's more of a problem of media companies having to compete for ratings by sensationalizing and making sure stories are interesting. In that sense there is no true freedom of press because sometimes the truth is spun or slants are added to make it "interesting". And any "free" news agency that tries to report the actual news that is not one of the big guys (CNN, FOX, etc) is just seen a "conspiracy rag".

Take for example someone trying to write an article pointing out some negative aspects of all the aid money we send to Israel. I'm not leaning one way or the other, but clearly, according to our media big dogs, Israel can do no wrong, so any article like that would be slapped as "anti-Semite" right away, and the newspaper labeled as some backwards commie tabloid. Just an example of what I see as the true limitation of our freedom of press here in the U.S...

Thoughts?

Re:Rumors also have...

I have to say I agree. I have learned in order to get well-balanced news, you must read the story at several sources and concentrate on the facts that consistently rise to the top.

I was pointing out the other day that US support of Israel would be but much less if we had an equal amount of Arab lobbyists - instantly I was labeled an anti-Semite and my opinion disregarded. This also happens to all media outlets that say anything non-PC. I am frankly sick of watching Israel do some very fucked up things "in retaliation" of the bombings. Why don't they just move their people out of occupied territories and quit fucking with Palestine? Seems like that would be a start. By the way, I am not an anti-Semite, just someone who sees things as they are.

None of the main stream rags will tell you we are being led to war by a corporate puppet with an 85 IQ either...(that may be inflammatory)

Re:Rumors also have...

I have to say I agree. I have learned in order to get well-balanced news, you must read the story at several sources and concentrate on the facts that consistently rise to the top.

I totally agree with you here, it's important to get a variety of viewpoints, on BOTH or ALL sides of the issue. If you don't like Israel, it's at least important to read Israeli news to get their viewpoint, try here [haaretzdaily.com] for a relatively unbiased Israeli news source.

About 2 years ago (note - before 9/11) I was consistently reading both Western news sources, as well as Israeli and Arab news sources. (Try this [arabicnews.com] for example). But the discrepencies were overwhelming. Comparing to what I consider a mostly unbiased site (BBC), the US and Israeli sources did have biases, but they almost always mentioned the other sides of the issues, and quoted people on the other side (Yes, Israeli papers often quote Palestinians). Recently, I've heard Saudi Arabia being really miffed at aljazeera for interviewing an occasional Israeli every now and then to get the Israeli point of view.

However, I was both disgusted and horrified at the reporting of the Arab news. If you do find relatively unbiased Arab news site, please let me know. The above site, and also www.arabnews.com, would typically only report crimes committed against Arabs or Muslims, and barely mention similar crimes committed by Muslims. Suicide bombings in Israel and attacks of India's Hindus were not mentioned, although corresponding attacks against Muslims by Israelis or Hindus were reported daily. It really made US news look totally unbiased and factual.

I am frankly sick of watching Israel do some very fucked up things "in retaliation" of the bombings. Why don't they just move their people out of occupied territories and quit fucking with Palestine? Seems like that would be a start.

Firstly, I'm a Jew that doesn't think you're an anti-Semite for the views you've expressed.

Secondly, I agree with Israel responding with too much force for bombings, and not following diplomatic paths to peace instead.

However, there are several dozen other countries doing things far worse than Israel (Sudan for instance, 2 million dead in ongoing civil war, slavery of black Christians, etc), but nobody seems to give a shit about these atrocities. Why is Israel singled out by nearly all countries for most of the evil going on in the world? I think it's because it provides an easy scapegoat. The problems within the entire Arab League can be blamed on Israel, even 9/11 is being blamed on Israel because bin laden claimed he was fighting for the oppressed Palestinians, etc. Of course there are far more oppressed peoples within the Arab Leaque itself, but since they're not oppressed by Israel their story doesn't make it out (Iraqi Kurds, Sudanese Christians, etc).

Secondly, you are either too young or have only a short-term memory. Before there was any occupied territories, there was terror, attacks, and outright war launched at the state of Israel. And even before Israel was a country, there was terror and attacks on the Jews living in the land now called Israel/Palestine. I think Israeli's hearts have hardened, after having fallen prey to Russian pogroms, the Holocaust, and centuries of other European anti-semitism. Golda Meir basically summed it up by saying (rougly) "We'd rather have people not be happy with us than be pitied and dead."

I don't agree with Israel's heavy response to terror, and I don't agree with the occupation. But when people claim that the terror would magically stop when Israel pulls out of the territories, they're disillusional. Hint, hamas and hizbollah do not accept any Jewish state in the region, and only refer to Israel as "the zionist entity". Luckily, most Palestinians don't share these views.

Finally, people like to criticise Israel and read off a memorized list of some dozen-odd UN security resolutions against Israel. Firstly, nearly all of these have provisions that the Palestinians too must adhere too, which they aren't. So it's BOTH Israel and Palestine in violation. Secondly, the entire Arab League is unilaterally unified against Israel (it was created strictly in opposition to the creation of Israel, but now it seems to be a valid entity), and have a significant block of power at the UN. To a lesser extent, the OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) is nearly organized against Israel, and this is a block of about 50 votes in the 200-odd votes at the UN. So when people complain about Israel not following UN resolutions, it's important to keep in mind that a good block of the UN is specifically biased against Israel itself.

Re:Rumors also have...

I think we're talking things like DECSS/DMCA issues -- supression of decryption/encryption programs and research papers. Also the post-9/11 unwillingness/inability of the press to criticize Bush Jr..
Remember, as well, the lambasting that Bill Moyer took for his comments on the Hijackers (( and I fully agree with him on that one -- As much as I may disagree with them, I'm not going to call someone who's willing to die for what he believes in a coward.. Misled and stupid, yes.. but not a coward)).

There were also things like the censorship of anti-WTO protests and protestors in Seattle. The US is far from a fully 'free press' state.

There is also the issue of 'directed' press... Things like various networks pushing the 'popularity' of sister companies' movies as news or supressing news that might make their parent companies look bad. Many companies have gotten so big that, when they start to push for censorship of the press, it's almost as bad as having the government do so.

Re:Rumors also have...

If you think the U.S. isn't the best place to live, then you don't have to live here. You are perfectly free not to come, or to leave if you are here.

Guess what, I'm not going to the US, nor will I ever if things stay the way they are right now. A few years ago I was seriously thinking of emigrating to the US after my study, but now I've grown older and more aware of what's happening in the world I found out I already live in the best country in the world: The Netherlands (#1 in the freedom of press list btw).
Sure the weather sucks, but everything else is pretty good. We have real freedom here, I can smoke pot on the stairs of the police station, and offer a hit to a police officer and all he will do is politely refuse the offer. (before you start gibbering about gateway drugs or whatever crap you've been brainwashed with, consider this: we have one of the lowest percentages of drug addicts in the world. besides, I'm not hurting anyone, why should the government decide if I can smoke pot or not.). We have a real democracy, not just 2 parties both sponsored by the same corporations, no there's at least 10 parties. we count every vote instead of using some dumbass 19th century system in which it is possible that even when more people vote for one candidate, the other becomes president. There's no creepy "citizens corps" style organisation here (from what I've read about the CC , it's probably going to be worse than the east german stasi). Guns aren't allowed but why would I want to have a tool designed to kill a person ?

Re:Rumors also have...

Yeah, when the tanks roll into his front yard he'll be wishing he had that .38 special.

Re:Rumors also have...

Someone who believes small arms would have defeated the Nazi invasion of the Netherlands has been watching too many American action movies. (After all, it worked in Independence Day, it must be true...)

A personal firearm is about as effective in protecting liberties as is a four-leafed clover. Guns are fetishes of masculinity, that is when they are not used for murder.

Re:Rumors also have...

The actions of the Dutch resistance members were instrumental in the ultimate liberation of the Netherlands from Nazi occupation. They provided invaluable intelligence, acted as couriers, helped downed aviators escape and evade capture, and performed a vast number of other vital actions. French and Dutch resistance fighters staged countless small ambushes and attacks against occupying troops, which tied up resources that could have been used elsewhere and demoralized the Nazi soldiers.

Don't believe small arms are effective? What can one man with a rifle accomplish, you ask? Ask Gunnery Sgt Carlos Hathcock. With 93 confirmed kills (and over 300 probable), Gunny Hathcock was the top sniper in Vietnam, possibly the best ever. At one point, he single-handedly kept a NVA batallion pinned down for 3 days. Or how about MSGT Gary Gordon and SFC Randall Shugart? Armed only with their rifles and sidearms, sergeants Gordon and Shugart held off an attacking force numbering in the hundreds for several hours. You can read the details of their sacrifice in their Medal of Honor citations [army.mil]. Don't say that one man with small arms can't make a difference. The facts speak to the contrary.

LOL

But thousands of people disagree with you, as proven by the fact that they go to great lengths to come to the U.S. -- not just long visa lines, but leaky boats and dangerous desert crossings.

If live here is so bad, why are they trying so hard to come here?

Yeah, it's difficult to see why those Cuban refugees don't just sail their leaky boats across the Atlantic to Finland or why those illegal Mexican immigrants don't just make a dangerous desert crossing to the Netherlands, isn't it? Let me put this another way: if Cuba was 90 miles off of the shore of Norway, do you think those oppressed refugees would ignore it and swim to New York? I sincerely hope you're trolling.

Look, the United States is a great place to live, but the fact that it's an obvious destination for disadvantaged peoples who just happen to live right freaking next to us is not at all an indication that we are the best place to live .. only that we're a hell of a lot better than some of our neighbors to the south.

Re:Rumors also have...

shh... you'll distract us from the bread and circus'

This report is a lie

We need to censor it now, before it gets out.

Re:This report is a lie

IT kinda already is.. do you see yahoo reporting it in English? No.. just in Germany. Kind of sad if you ask me.

Re:This report is a lie

Did you mean to misspell "gall" on purpose? If so, that's a pretty sly Roman Empire-era reference/homonym/pun triple-entendre bit of humor. If not... well, uh, nevermind.

Canada is 5th?

Funny, I could swear the only reason we're so low on the list, is we have no real good 'news' to report, other than what happens in the US...

Re:Canada is 5th?

It's also surprising, since almost all of the major Canadian newspapers are owned by two people.

I live in British Columbia. About two years ago the Nisga'a Treaty was being heavily debated within this province and lesser so throughout the country.

A fair chunk of the newspapers in the interior of British Columbia are owned by one man (I forget his name). And he did not allow any of his editors to write editorials in favour of the Nisga'a Treaty. How is that for freedom of the press.

The survery claims to asked questions relating to state monopolies. But did they ask about monopolies in general?

Re:Canada is 5th?

How is that for freedom of the press

Sounds just fine to me -- the guy who owns the papers gets to print whatever he wants. On the other hand, it does sound like a serious problem of a monopoly dominating the forum of ideas...

Re:Canada is 5th?

A fair chunk of the newspapers in the interior of British Columbia are owned by one man (I forget his name).

Conrad Black? [honestreporting.com]

Re:Canada is 5th?

It's also surprising, since almost all of the major Canadian newspapers are owned by two people.

Well, this quite satisfies the requirements for democracy, you know. After all, there can be no more than two different points of view. In the US they are known as Republican and Democratic.

Re:Canada is 5th?

After all, there can be no more than two different points of view. In the US they are known as Republican and Democratic

I thought that was one point of view?

Re:Canada is 5th?

After all, there can be no more than two different points of view. In the US they are known as Republican and Democratic.
I thought that was one point of view?

Shh! that's supposed to be a secret!

Re:Canada is 5th?

Nonsense. I am black on the right side; he is black on the left side. Can't you see the difference? ;)

Re:Canada is 5th?

As the Feederz said, "When you're being sodomized, who cares if it's from the Right or the Left".

Re:Canada is 5th?

The survery claims to asked questions relating to state monopolies. But did they ask about monopolies in general?

I don't think so. In Germany, the intertwined nature of the mainstream press is not transparent. Most of the ties are publicly documented, but they are usually only used (if they are used at all) to quietly control who happens to own a press. Such information is not available in most countries which were surveyed, so it wouldn't be fair to take it into account in the study for countries with a more transparent press.

Re:Canada is 5th?

It just goes to show that this article is more about balance in the mainstream press than about the freedom to publish things.

In the U.S. you really can publish most anything you want. Notwithstanding some of the recent DMCA crap and excesses of IP, you are perfectly free to say whatever horrible things you want.

You'll probably never get on CNN saying that slavery is a good idea, but at the same time you can certainly publish your own newsletter if you have the money (or even start your own TV station).

Not so in Canada. The media may be a little less interested in slanting things toward their own political agenda, and a wider range of viewpoints may hit the mainstream public, but that's not near the same as a free press.

Try to have a copy of "The Turner Diaries" in Canada and see how far you get before being arrested for having hateful literature.

No one needs a first ammendment to publish a cookbook.

Re:Canada is 5th?

No one needs a first ammendment to publish a cookbook.

Not unless it's To Serve Man.

I hope people get this joke...

Re:Canada is 5th?

The problem is that the citizens of the US are less interested in freedom every day. Nowhere is this more obvious then the press. The press no longer even pretends to be unbiased or altruistic. It simply reports what the politicians, the police, PR dept of the parent company, or the idology of the owner says.

The press has gone from being watchdogs to being a megaphone for those with money and power.

Re:Canada is 5th?

The survery claims to asked questions relating to state monopolies. But did they ask about monopolies in general?

Adam Smith supposedly said that big business is effectively the same as big government. His 'Free Market' refered to a free market of multiple small businesses.