Slashdot Log In
Laptop Fuel Cells Approved For Air Carriage
Posted by
timothy
on Mon Oct 07, 2002 06:01 PM
from the how-much-will-refills-cost dept.
from the how-much-will-refills-cost dept.
gilgsn writes "According to reports in BusinessWeek, the US Department of Transportation has ruled that a new fuel cell developed by US company Polyfuel can be taken on airplanes. The announcement clears the way for the commercialisation of fuel cells as an alternative to batteries in notebook computers. The use of direct methanol fuel cells on aeroplanes has been questioned as they contain methanol, which is flammable. According to Jim Balcom, Polyfuel's CEO, the US DOT said that a fuel cell designed by his company could be taken into aircraft cabins when it goes on sale because it contains a relatively low concentration of methanol. Fuel cells are viewed as a promising power source in notebook comptuers as they are instantly refuellable (using fuel cartridges) and will power laptops two to three times longer than standard batteries. Full Story." This will be more exciting news when the fuel cells are actually available.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Laptop Fuel Cells Approved For Air Carriage
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 247 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Gahhh (Score:1)
Bush loves the idea! (Score:1, Funny)
Safe? (Score:1, Troll)
Same as trying to boost a car and mis-connecting the jumper cables.
Re:Safe? (Score:5, Funny)
The actually sell these little wooden sticks that are tipped with chemicals such that when rubbed against the box the chemicals ignite and, in turn, ignite the wood.
If you think that is bad, they even have special ones that will ignite when rubbed against any number of common items, such as the "zipper" on so-called "Levi's." (Which, I understand, are allowed on aircraft.)
The really amazing part is that these things will slip right past even the most astute airport screener and can be purchased at any grocery store without a special license!
I have heard rumors about a secret type of these things, which I hear are called "matches," though I don't know what it is they are supposed to "match," that are made from chemically treated paper. This type supposedly comes in "books" that are so small they can be easily hidden in the palm of one's hand, and are essentially undetectable.
We live in ghastly days . .
-Peter
PS: Rubbing alcohol doesn't explode, nitwit. Oh, and I don't know where you are from, but where I live "boosting" a car and "jumping" a car are two totally different things.
Olde Fortran (Score:1)
Cell Phones and More (Score:5, Informative)
The neat thing are the carbon nanotubes used to drive these things. NEC is working on fuel cells for phones [itworld.com].
---
Interview with GoDaddy President Bob Parsons [compunotes.com]
Just one? (Score:3, Interesting)
Just one might have a small amount, but what about the person who carries a bag full of them? Initial excuse being that there will be only a few places to get these when they first hit the market.
Re:Just one? (Score:4, Interesting)
Good (Score:1)
Methane gas? (Score:5, Funny)
33 years old and still making potty jokes. It's sad, really.
Better than Li-ion? (Score:3, Interesting)
Li-ion isn't the safest technology, When Lithium Ion batteries were first released 4 years ago(Sic!) they were actually banned from transportation on aircraft. Unsolved problems with batteries exploding violently resulted in the ban. [transair.com] [transair.com] Let's hope that some lessons has been learned and this won't happen this time around. Though, Li-ion batteries are still used today because of better safety regulations [nec-tokin.net] [nec-tokin.net] and even built in microprocessors to protect from overcharging. Lithium will still explode or overheat if charged at a too high voltage and if it catches fire, don't try to put it out with water!
The advantages of Li-ion obviously outweight the hazards and since fuel-cells don't seem any worse they will probably get accepted too. Apart from
better performance they might find a niche already because of normal batteries abysmal heat specifications. My laptop battery is not to be operated at temperatures higher than 35 degrees celcius, which really is impossible to achieve if you are using the computer standing on a desk. Not considering people in hotter countries or scientists at the southpole...
[extremetech.com]
Look here for a more balanced story on battery technology [extremetech.com]
Sounds cool, but not for my laptop. (Score:4, Insightful)
Bork!
Re:Sounds cool, but not for my laptop. (Score:4, Interesting)
How long do these things last? (Score:1)
However, if tehy do not last long, and users are having to swap them out constantly, doesn't that pose a fire hazard? (having 2 fuel cells per lap top toting passenger?)
It would saem that methanol wouldn't be that big of a problem. The first aide kits on planes have rubbing alcohol in them!
I say go for it!
gas on airplanes... (Score:2)
And why shouldn't they be approved? (Score:2)
Hydrogen is much less dangerous than everyone in the pro-oil community is saying. It wasn't even the cause of the Hindenburg fire, as the mythical tale of why hydrogen is bad says. If we are going to fly on planes with tonnes of flammable material under our butts, then what is the harm of having some flammable material in a much smaller quantity on our laps? If we outlaw everything that might catch fire, then we shouldn't allow fat people on planes, because their fat may liquify, and they would spontaneously combust.
Victorian machinery (Score:3, Funny)
That being said:
This could be a boon to the more adventurous computer users. Instead of having to drag a solar pack around, and a bag of spare batteries, a jug of methanol and you'll be set for weeks!
What will the new measurement be - MIPS/liter?
Aren't lithium batteries explosive? (Score:1)
A few questions. Battery size. Actual times? (Score:4, Insightful)
The article also states that they power laptops 2-3 times longer than standard batteries. So what's standard? Between different laptops, and depending on activity, there can be a significant difference how long batteries last. A hard estimate of how long they last under normal conditions (no CD's etc running all the time) would be a lot nicer. Call me suspicious but they also say 2-3 times longer than standard batties. My laptop doesn't run very long at all on a few AA's (insert smiles here).
Lastly, just a poke at the article because I hate lazy editors:
also -notebook comptuers- it would be nice if the reporter could spell
What Safety (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What Safety (Score:5, Insightful)
Safety is not the issue (Score:1)
Fuel cells are very promising but do not yet perform on par with normal batteries (in terms of life/ cost / weight).
When they do, I am sure that airline safety will be the smallest of concerns.
Tor
Great new revenue for local computer stores (Score:2, Insightful)
aggh. (Score:4, Funny)
Next thing you'll tell me is that there is like a tenth planet or something.
Damn slashdot. I used to be a normal person.
obligatory simpsons quote (Score:3, Funny)
One way or another, today's young go-getters are going to end up high on meths. Oh the canadian irony.
Compatable with installed base? (Score:2, Insightful)
Flammable? (Score:4, Funny)
Screw the airplane--what about my lap? I mean seriously, an airplane is a lot harder to set aflame than my cordurouys.
Is this necessarily a good thing? (Score:3, Insightful)
As much as I'd like to run my laptop on fuel cells, this sounds like a potential loophole for carrying far more-flammable fuels onto airplanes. Not that there are people who would go to the trouble of implementing something like that when they could just fill their shoes...
A little off-topic... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been looking at laptops lately, a lot of them have built in 802.11 and bluetooth. Problem is: how do you know if they are on or off? The average business user who has no idea what his/her laptop is capable of is expected to know to turn the wireless stuff off. Because of this there has been chatter about banning laptops all together.
It seems to me that air-travel should be a larger concern for mobile devices these days. My cell phone that has all these organizer and game features doesn't have an 'airplane' profile that shuts down the transmitters on it. Should laptops have 'Airplane' profiles too?
In any case, I know it's a little off topic. It's nice to see a company saying "we'll get this approved for use in the air", but arguably air travel is their target market. Personally, I wouldn't invest in them until I knew more about what the future holds for computing devices in the air.
And in other news... (Score:1)
While fuel cells are very promising, there still remain enormous challenges before they can compete with normal batteries, for example in terms of price, performance, weight and so on. When (if) they become a competitive alternative, then surely airline regulations wont be a significant hurdle for commericial success.
Tor
More power available=More heat? (Score:1)
literally (Score:1)
Power Jacks (Score:1)
News of November the 16th, 2009 (Score:5, Funny)
Geek 2
Geek 3
Geek 2
Geek 1
Geek 3
*** Sound of several minutes of apparent use of tools ***
Geek 1
Geek 2
Geek 3
*** Static (or various moans and cries with a dark voice rambling "Liberate Tuteme Ex Infernus"(sp?) if you're in a marcabre mood.) ***
Perhaps on older aircraft... (Score:1)
this will be more problem as life goes on (Score:2, Redundant)
and then it hit me -- no way man, it would suck ass. when you can store enough energy to run a car for 50 years in the size of a gas tank, what happens if something goes wrong (as it obviously will) with the storage? if somebody *intentially* sets it off, etc?
there are all these scientists out there who are striving for higher and higher power density in energy storage -- but i think there is an end; not necessarily the "diminishing returns" end, but a "maybe it's not a good idea for a AA battery to have enough juice to power a cadillac" -- because when you get enough power density in everyone's hands, everyone will have the power to blow a whole lotta stuff up.
this will probabbly become the next great hurdle in energy storage -- and ironically it's not even a technical challenge, but rather a socialogical one.
Figures!! (Score:1)
I agonize over buying a laptop for 2 months, and then 5 hours after I decide they come out with one that can run for 3 times as long...
For an encore I intend to learn 4 dead programming languages, get a job at an internet company just before they go under, and commit suicide 10 minuets before they announce my winning lottery ticket.
Ahh who cares, in 3 years they will discover methanol fuel cells cause cancer.
direct-methanol fuel cells (Score:4, Informative)
1. They're easily rechargable. Anyone can pour a weak methanol solution from a bottle into a fuel cell's reservoir, but not everyone has the equipment (or desire) to store compressed hydrogen in their home or car.
2. They're stigma-free. Mention hydrogen and the first thing many people think of is the hindenburg. While it's true that hydrogen was _not_ the cause of the disaster (entire thing was covered in flammable paint), many people think it is and will shy away from hydrogen-powered cars and appliances for that reason. As far as I know, there have been no significant disasters for which methanol has been blamed. (Disclaimer: I may be wrong.)
3. A weak methanol solution really is safe - it's not going to hurt you unless you drink it. (Methanol isn't drinkable alcohol, that's ethanol. Methanol is converted by the body into formaldehyde, the stuff you use to preserve dead things.)
Now, if it only worked with ethanol.. (Score:2, Interesting)
-jcr
excellent news (Score:2)
Here's why: People have been working hybrid electric vehicles and decent batteries for decades. It was ONLY AFTER the cell phone and laptop boom that there was any significant advancement in rechargeable battery technology. So now we can make HEVs (and hopefully real electric vehicles).
If the idea of using fuel cells in laptops, cell phones, etc. takes off, we might end up with a generation of very useable fuel cells that we can apply to vehicle technology.
Of course, Detroit, Evil Oil Companies, and Starbucks will probably conspire and prevent this from happening
Ahhh... a deja vu... (Score:2)
OK on safety--what about oxygen consumption? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's all about the profit model... (Score:4, Insightful)
so HP makes most of its money off of proprietary inkjet refill carts. It's the disposable razor model, where you get the printer for a song, but the supplies suck you dry. now with fuel cells, for the sake of 'safe transferrance' of fuel to the cell, the fuel cell supplier will sell you fuel packs in proprietary cases (probably with microchips (ala Epson ink carts) to deter 'piracy' (ie third parties)). The batteries will go for a song, and at $10 each the refills won't seem prohibitively expensive. heck, you could get a 10-pack for $70 at costco, most likely.
But use them day after day for your commute to work, use them on planes, on vacation so you don't have to lug a power supply (since you'll be able to buy them on demand all over the world, like film) and suddenly a huge new industry emerges, because we're too clumsy to put methanol into a compartment without NASA-level safeguards.
Yeah, I'm bitter, but this is how the world works. Things don't come to market because they're better; things come to market when people figure out how to get rich off it.
Methanol from Garbage (Score:1)
How? (Score:1)
"Air carriage"? (Score:1)
Where can I read more about this newfangled "air carriage" you speak of? Is it anything like Doctor Flavinbottom's ocean-going mechanical horse?
Truly, this is an age of marvels.
Isn't this already the case? (Score:2)
Then again, my laptop gets hot enough to fry an egg, but has yet to burst into flames... Speaking of which
Methanol Fuel cells instead of Hydrogen? (Score:1)
If we can have methanol fuel cells to run laptops, is there any particular reason we can't get them sized up to do things like run cars? Methanol's a lot easier to come by than hydrogen, a lot easier to store, yadda yadda. The only downer is that it breathes out CO2 and water, instead of just water. But so do you. Um, and me too.
The whole idea as I understood it was that these things produce electricity lots more efficiently than piston or turbine based generation.
I must be missing something.
Stupid question - refills OK for planes? (Score:2)
I'm personally not convinced it's going to be more convienient to find a fuel cell refill than a power outlet for the next 10 years or so. Even if the battery life is longer (which is great), when you're out, you're out and I don't want to have to play parent to my laptop and take a thousand bottles of "laptop formula" with me on trips to feed the thing.
Next thing in luxury housing and offices. (Score:1)
Soon, we're gonna recharge with an aerosol of cigarette lighter or something similar.
It'll be silly putting handling for batteries into a laptop, it will just add weight - hey, everyone is using those fuel cells now.
So, in future, laptops don't get plugged into the mains, they get a line of methanol.
This will be the next big thing in managed offices and luxury housing - "... fitted with cat5e cabling and methanol to every room
(Seriously, I think that a docking station will do AC conversion as just now, and no-one will ever pipe methanol through their office, and certainly not through their home - whadaya think?)
Scientific American Article (Score:2, Informative)
The small quantities of methanol, and the dilution with water, means the risk is pretty low (you could cause more trouble, I guess, breaking out the lithium from your batteries and adding it to water - don't try this at home,folks).
For those who are asking, that article also explains why it is difficult to scale these cells up to automotive use.
One problem for the automotive industry is that methanol attacks many of the components of the current fuel distribution system, which is quite sensitive to the chemical composition of what it carries. At one time you could find carburetor conversion kits for some British motorcycles which included gaskets of different materials to handle this problem, and I tried this during the 1970s fuel crisis. Handling pure methanol without a standard fuel pump is not much fun, but it surely cleans out the carbon from the engine and the experiments were worth it just from that point of view.
And btw, rubbing alcohol WILL NOT WORK in your methanol fuel cell, neither will vodka.
Last Post! (Score:1)
Try:
[Where is Jimmy Hoffa? (C shell)
^How did the^sex change operation go? (C shell)
"How would you rate BSD vs. System V?
%blow (C shell)
'thou shalt not mow thy grass at 8am' (C shell)
got a light? (C shell)
!!:Say, what do you think of margarine? (C shell)
PATH=pretending!
make love
make "the perfect dry martini"
man -kisses dog (anything up to 4.3BSD)
i=Hoffa ; >$i; $i; rm $i; rm $i (Bourne shell)
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...
Re:"Relatively" Low? (Score:1)
Thank god a new technology can be approved that will help anyone (Ok 2 batteries - 5 hours not bad, but that won't get me over the Pacific with my DVDs/MP3) that wants to use a laptop on long trips.
Re:safety (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:safety (Score:4, Insightful)
A mildly poisonous (compared to, for example, household bleach) chemical like methanol won't do you any harm in a sealed container in quantities of less than an ounce, as in a laptop fuel cell.
May I also remind you that the ethanol you buy at the store is denatured with methanol anyway. You probably already have a good amout of this toxic stuff already sitting in your medicine cabinet. We deal with extremely toxic stuff all the time. For example, aspirin is much more toxic than methanol. Try eating 1 cup of aspirin. You'd die of liver failure.
We can't just let all of these irrational fears get in the way of advancement.
Re:"Relatively" Low? (Score:2, Informative)
You could make a pretty nice fireball with a couple of those.
Re:Vodka is flammable, too (Score:2, Funny)
Re:"Relatively" Low? (Score:3, Funny)
O.M.G -- To think that for all these years, I've been flying in airplanes accompanied by dozens of little 1-ounce TICKING TIME BOMBS in the beverage cart -- each one filled with a FLAMMABLE ethanol mixture!
I'm not stepping onto an airplane again until this situation is fixed!!!
(Hmm... I could offer to dispose of these dangerous articles at no charge to the arlines.)
Remember when they used to smoke on airplanes? (Score:2, Interesting)
Prime example of what's next. (Score:2)
Sigh...such is free speech.
Re:Most people dont realize (Score:1)
Ow.
And then I'll seriously kick your ass while you're trying to figure out how to recharge the thing. The shock will not be in the least bit incapacitating.
You're better off jamming the capacitor lead in my eye.
Re:safety (Score:1)
Re:Why Recharge when you can Refill (Score:2)
Re:Yay, a new weapon. (Score:2)