Stealware: Kazaa et al Stealing Link Commissions 684
goombah99 writes "We all heard about spyware, well now Kazaa, Morpheus and LimeWire are sneaking a new type of nastiness onto your computer, software that - without you even knowing it - redirects commissions for online purchases you make from other vendors you make back to them. For example, if you buy a CD from an affiliate of Amazon.com, say some charity, the software fools Amazon into crediting the commission to Morpheus, not the charity! The story quotes a LimeWire Developer who admits 'While I agree that this is really a
bit of a scam, it is a way for us to pay salaries while not adversely affecting our users.' The insidious part is the stealware
program remains even if you delete the original P2P software. And you supposedly gave your permission when you clicked through the EULA."
Fer Chrissake, it's FRAUD! (Score:5, Funny)
"While I agree that slapping my wife around isn't very nice, it does get me my dinner on time."
"While I agree that insider trading is against SEC rules, how else am I going to get the 2nd Aston-Martin?"
Re:Fer Chrissake, it's FRAUD! (Score:4, Insightful)
WTF! This is funny it's serious and the poster is right this is dam right illegal, people are being defrauded and the government(s) should step in and shut these people down.
Do they not have any morals? How can they do this sort of thing and sleep at night?? You're STEALING money from charities FFS.
Dancing with the devil (Score:5, Insightful)
Not much different of an attitude from the RIAA.
Re:Dancing with the devil (Score:3, Insightful)
They're not stealing from the users! They're stealing from miscellaneous affiliates who have not give ANYONE the right to take their commisions. The P2P software user doesn't have the right to give these companies permission to steal from affiliates!
I really hope this stops a lot of people from using these P2P networks, and causes the government to shut them down. There was a point when Napster could claim that it was the end-user breaking the law by downloading and/or sharing copyrighted material. Now it's the P2P software companies that are commiting fraud and outrightly STEALING! If the government was able to shut down Napster for simply providing a means to an end, then the government should absolutely have the power to shut down these P2P software vendors for outrightly DEFRAUDING and STEALING from millions of innocent people!
Re:Dancing with the devil (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dancing with the devil (Score:4, Interesting)
You know, if this keeps up, the RIAA isn't going to need that pro-hacking bill; hacktivists are going to get so fed up with Kazaa that they take them down on their own.
Seriously, the more I deal with the computer and related industries, the more disgusted I become. I miss the days when people basically did what they want, and were mostly harmless. And I'm only 22.
Re:Dancing with the devil (Score:5, Insightful)
C//
Re:Fer Chrissake, it's FRAUD! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Fer Chrissake, it's FRAUD! (Score:3, Interesting)
At the minimum, this meets the legal definition of fraud (IANAL, but the guy down the hall is, and he just told me that this meets the "legal yardstick"). At the most, we may be looking at criminal theft. Either way, this consitutes a real crime and is the kind of thing that governments were meant to deal with.
Re:Fer Chrissake, it's FRAUD! (Score:5, Interesting)
1.) You -=knew=- that the charity was not going to get the commission if you didn't buy it through their site
2.) You, the purchasing party, made that decision on your own. No one made it for you.
3.) All of the money involved was your own, and (again) it was your choice.
With this theftware, the situation is different. EULAs are paper tigers in court and we all know it. Even if they weren't, I'm not entirely sure tha this kind of scheme is legal in the first place, as there appears no way to cancel the contract once the software is uninstalled.
These companies are not putting up the money to buy the CD, they are taking it out of someone elses pockets. By any definition that is theft, particularly if you can demonstrate the irrelevancy of the EULA.
Victimless crime? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Victimless crime? (Score:4, Informative)
Their diversion of cash does hurt the customer.
Many co-op preschools in my area, in order to be able to charge less tuition money, permit parents to agree to engage in a certain amount of fundraising. Among the options available is to sign up for Schoolpop [schoolpop.com], at which point the school gets a quite generous cut of commissions for purchases on Amazon and similar sites.
However, if the KaZaa folks steal the commissions, the parent is liable, since the parent must raise some minimum amount (yes, Schoolpop provides the data to the school so the school knows who's raised the money for them). In cases like this, which are quite common, the KaZaa folks and their hitchhikers are directly stealing from their users, as well as from schools and charities.
Re:Victimless crime? (Score:5, Funny)
-- Nelson, The Simpsons
Of course this isn't shoplifting but it's still funny
What it basically says... (Score:3, Informative)
"By signing this contract you allow us to steal from your neighbor."
This is the same thing, period.
First, it asks the permission to someone not related to the contract's target, which is illegal. (You cannot have a contract that says: By signing this, you agree that your friend X owes us XX bucks.)
Second, stealing is illegal.
So, it doubly illegal!
This is just sick.
Re:What it basically says... (Score:3, Insightful)
As others have noted, language in a EULA stating that the user agrees to commit an illegal act does not legitimize the act or absolve anyone from legal liability.
Re:What it basically says... (Score:3, Insightful)
And no, we don't need new "digital" laws to cover this, existing laws cover it very nicely.
ObIANAL: IANAL
Re:Fer Chrissake, it's FRAUD! (Score:5, Informative)
s178BA - Obtaining money by deception - 5 years
s178BB - Obtaining money etc by false or misleading statements (it doesn't require the statement to be in writing, false claim as to referrer will definitely count) - 5 years
s180 - Causing payment etc by false pretence etc (the false referrer will count here too) - 5 years
This could be prosecuted under any one of these.
Re:Fer Chrissake, it's FRAUD! (Score:2)
Re:News Flash: People who enable piracy are crooks (Score:3, Interesting)
Finally! This is what the RIAA has been trying to say all along! Finally someone on
We need to shut down the Internet. It enables piracy. All these ISP's are crooks, just selling something to enable piracy.
If we don't shut down the whole Internet, then at least shut down broadband. The only reason people get broadband is the same reason they get P2P: to do something illegal. (The same reason they got a PC in the first place, I might add.)
we now return you to your regular p2p downloading.
Re:News Flash: People who enable piracy are crooks (Score:3, Funny)
And friends who hum new songs. They're breaking the encoding of the cd using a psychoacoustic matric, which violates the DMCA.
Oh, and bad reviews! They're stealing money by giving away how dumb so many things are nowadays. Need to put them in prison with the rapists, murderers, bank robbers, jewlery theives and anybody who doesn't like Ashcroft's haircut.
Crap like this is going to Kill P2P (Score:3, Interesting)
These guys are their own worst enemy. The RIAA doesn't need to do anything. These companies will end up destroying themselves. This is not the type of PR these guys need.
Sean D.
Re:Crap like this is going to Kill P2P (Score:3, Interesting)
Its sad, but unharnessed P2P file trading is just too cool a thing to last forever. So my wife sits at home and tries to fill up our new 80GB hard drive while I'm at work.
Re:Crap like this is going to Kill P2P (Score:4, Insightful)
Kazaa, Morpheus et. al. are a simple concept: try to take advantage of people's enourmous predisposition to violate copyright laws via digital technology to skim some cash by any means whatsoever. It's a rotten business model and a rotten way to behave and it isn't much of a surprise that the rotten people responsible for it are as dishonest to their users as they are about what their software is really used for ("now don't use this to illegally copy protected media, kids, wink wink nod nod").
Re:Crap like this is going to Kill P2P (Score:3, Interesting)
15-year-old morons who have already destroyed their brains with drugs and alcohol (like, for example, my old bosses son) don't give a rip about this kind of stuff. They will still be installing Kazaa on their school networks, their dad's company's computers and where ever else they manage to get access to. It doesn't matter to them that Kazaa is stealing from the charity that their step-mom always goes to Amazon through. Hell, if they knew they'd probably think it was cool!
So, no, since that's pretty much their target market, the PR isn't going to do jack to them. The charity finding out that Kazaa is stealing their commisions and sueing them and/or sicking the FTC on them for fraud, however, just might be the straw that broke the camel's back.
It's a shame, really. There is so much legitimate possibility for P2P, it's really sad to me that it is now so tainted by this kind of scuminess.
Moral issues anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's part of it, it does affect the users - money that they may have WANTED to go to a particular affiliate is now going to these guys. Yay.
The other part is what about the affiliate contract? doesn't this violate it?
Re:Moral issues anyone? (Score:5, Informative)
Kazaa Lite (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Kazaa Lite (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Kazaa Lite (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok so you are saying to not do it yourself but to endorse the community around it. If the community grows (whether from "Lite" users or not), it will be good for the Kazaa company. Do you really want to support a company that is twisting the internet in such an underhanded way? At first I was like you. They put in some spyware and they said that they would take it out (which as far as I am aware, they never did) and so I downloaded the Lite and thought 'mostly harmless'. Yet now they are showing thier true colors. The Kazaa company thinks that any underhanded way they can possibly make money is fair game in bussiness and war. I don't want to support a company with no moral standard and embraces such a corporate culture. I want the whole kazaa p2p to whither and die and to be never heard of from again.
Re:Kazaa Lite (Score:5, Funny)
The price of freedom. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm uneffected by this because i'm a happy WinMX user. I've never had a problem whatsoever, unlike AudioGalaxy and Bearshare (this is awhile ago) that deleted some of my system files, thus making me have to reformat!
Re:The price of freedom. (Score:3, Informative)
>that is allowing them to distribute and download
>music that a lot of the major companies don't want
>you to do?
Insightful.
>I'm uneffected by this because i'm a happy WinMX
>user. I've never had a problem whatsoever, unlike
>AudioGalaxy and Bearshare (this is awhile ago) that
>deleted some of my system files, thus making me
>have to reformat!
Yeah, isn't that something? It's faster to reformat a Window's partition than it is to deltree c:\windows and c:\progra~1. It takes hours to deltree and mere minutes (usually) to format.
I just boot LOAF (Linux on a Floppy) if I have to rm -fR the windows and the program files dirs on a windows partition... much much faster.
As for the stealing of commissions intended as charitable contributions, I have no first hand information on it but... if it is going on, it diminishes the spirit of charitable giving and probably breaks the law. Flame on!
Re:The price of freedom. (Score:2, Interesting)
There is more to P2P then mp3 files. I have been using KaZaa lite for almost 6 months. I have NOT downloaded or shared a single MP3 file on it. I use it extensively for amature videos and pictures (not prOn either). Mostly car street and track racing and small movies. P2P is excellent for this as most people can not afford a monthly transfer fee from a hosting company, I do not have to browse through hundreds of pages with Google, and I do not have to use my monthly Giganews account.
I am assuming that KaZaa lite does not have this ill effect.
Now how is this not stealing? (Score:3, Interesting)
What would happen if I walked into a car dealership, bargained a nice proce for my new Kia, and told the salesperson that instead of him getting a commission, I'm going to take that money as a rebate? Wouldn't that be stealing, or am I missing something here?
Re:Now how is this not stealing? (Score:2, Interesting)
It's pretty funny to see everybody asking this, while they are only bitching because they can't get their free music without ads and spyware... Don't you think that that's the same thing the RIAA is saying? "how is this not stealing..."
Re:Now how is this not stealing? (Score:4, Insightful)
The difference: if the software tricks Amazon into awarding affiliate sales commission to Morpheus instead of the intended recipient, the intended recipient has lost money that they would definitely have received.
When you download "See My Boobies One More Time", Britney and her record company are only being deprived of income if you would have bought the album without the P2P service. In fact, with P2P you might check out more of the album, like it, and wind up buying it when you wouldn't have done so if your only exposure was the two overplayed songs on the radio.
To sum it up, what Kazaa, etc are doing takes the money away every time. The P2P user isn't always a true financial loss to the RIAA.
Note that I'm not saying this makes copyright infringement ok, I'm saying it's a "lesser evil" than the fraud being perpetrated on Amazon affiliates.
What's Next? (Score:3, Funny)
"We do think this is stealing, but they are stealing music anyways so it can't be wrong? Plus it pays our salaries."
Self Limiting? (Score:4, Interesting)
"Last week, Amazon cut off affiliate payments to Morpheus, one site that employs the shopping software, said an online executive. Coldwater Creek, an online clothing store, has also blocked Morpheus."
huh? (Score:2, Insightful)
How is this not fraud or theft?
By the way, kinda strange that you can't really BUY many of the p2p apps, but rather they come only as ad/spy ware sponsored by the same few companies. The claim that the developers need to do this to make money is thus utter BS. Make a good p2p client and sell it instead of loading it with crap.
Whats all the fussin' and a-feudin' about? (Score:4, Funny)
I mean for crissakes - EULA is an ACRONYMN!
People *still* use that crap? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:People *still* use that crap? (Score:4, Insightful)
There has to be some way to allow users to use other clients, and still access the huge resource of files, similar to what winmx (www.winmx.com) did when napster was still around, and had a unified interface to napster, opennap, and it's own network. Now that nap and opennap have died off, it's own winmx network seem to be flurishing.
Ah, how to justify, let me count the ways... (Score:2, Redundant)
<satire>
Well, hijacking truckloads of computers is how gangs and "the mob" pay their saleries while not adversly affecting others. You know, it is only those "mean old" insurance companies that pay.
Offering protection to shop owners is another way the mob and street gangs pay salaries while promoting safer streets, right? The shop owners "agree" to the extra protection and the mob guys provide it.
</satire>
Yea, right! These guys are WORSE than SPAMMERS and the MPAA rolled into one!
duh (Score:2)
This is equally so for the charity, and they are doing better things with my donation. In fact I order through third-parties mainly because they get the bonus.
If Kazaa needs the money they should set up their own system with amazon. There's just no excuses for this kind of malpractice.
Just Hold On a Darn Minute Here... (Score:5, Funny)
Humor folks, enjoy it. =)
If they're an affiliate,how many CDs did they sell (Score:5, Interesting)
i miss napster ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Gnucleus (Score:5, Informative)
Unbelievable (Score:4, Insightful)
Like so many claims surround P2P, this claim is utterly unbelievable: how do you build a program that hijacks sales and NOT know you're doing this ?
I just hope Amazon and whomever is affected by this sues their asses off.
You can beat them. (Score:5, Informative)
Using AdAware to delete cydoor.dll will likely leave your P2P client not working. That's where the dummy cydoor.dll [cexx.org] comes in. It allows the client to start without providing any of the unwanted cydoor functionality.
For more info on spyware and scumware in general, check out the quite wonderful Counterexploitation [cexx.org] site...
Hope this helps...
Re:You can beat them, but they make it HARD (Score:4, Interesting)
I used my brother's computer the other day to show him how to crossfade tracks in Nero. Anyway I went to search something at Google and upon hitting search button was redirected to some shady search engine site for my results. The best part is that it lists the same shady porn/hacker links no matter what you search for (albeit in different order each time). So I tried Yahoo Excite and other sites, same hijacking. "That's it I'm downloading AdAware to fix this!" I go to www.lavasoft.com and wouldn't you know the bastardware re-directed me to the same friggin search engine site.
OK, now I go into Control Panel and removed at least 10 apps that I never heard of (suprised that they even show up in there) each time confronted with scary/threatening warnings about how removing this software will damage my computer or break my software etc. I installed Ad-Aware, Kazaa-lite and cleaned it up.
I assume these bastard-apps came bundled with the plethora of naked girl screensavers, dancing strippers etc. he installed. (He's 14 what do you expect)
Easy solution (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know if the big online retailers actually care about affiliate programs or not. If they do, then stealware is intolerable. Otherwise, the programs are useless.
better solution 'Bug traq' (Score:3, Interesting)
each affiliate has a key that they encrypt there product numbers, a hash and a few other standard authentication bits and bobs.
When you buy a product from an affiliate Amazon looks up the affiliate's ID in a database, un-encrypts the product ID and checks the hash.
The problem isn't that there's 'spy ware' spoofing Amazon, more like Amazon's shopping site has piss poor security.
Anyone fancy posting to Bug traq on spoofing affiliation with Amazon?
KaZaa Admits to Stealing Candy from Sick Children (Score:5, Funny)
"We knew it was wrong," said one vice-president, "but we had to keep the free snacks flowing for the programmers, or else we were screwed. We couldn't stop -- they'd all jump ship."
The executives insisted they had done nothing wrong. "Those kids are sick! What the hell are they getting candy for, anyway?" he asked rhetorically. "We left them instant cous-cous and bean soup. They've got it pretty good, if you ask me."
FSF founder and computer guru Richard Stallman was unavailable for comment. "He's out redirecting CDNow affiliate refferals to pay for his movie rental late charges," said an anonymous source close to the programmer.
Re:KaZaa Admits to Stealing Candy from Sick Childr (Score:2)
I guess Amazon will be changing their contract... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I guess Amazon will be changing their contract. (Score:4, Informative)
you may not: [..] read, intercept, record, redirect, interpret, or fill in the contents of any electronic form or other materials submitted to us by any person or entity;
This should be enough to boot any account from amazon that has transactions coming from altering affiliate links. I'm starting to wonder how much my site 'lost' due to things like this.
Kazaa (Score:4, Interesting)
The very fact that it WAS spyware has kept me from using, even since they had supposedly gotten rid of it. Of course, I am a fairly paranoid individual. I see this as a good thing, however.
There are plenty of alternatives out there that are not spyware and don't go screwing with things they shouldn't be.
LimeWire without the Lime (Score:3, Interesting)
If you're running OS X, you can get the Ultrapeer/swarm-downloading goodness of LimeWire without that bitter SpyWare aftertaste. Have a look at Acquisiton [xlife.org]. It uses the LimeWire core with a Cocoa front-end. While still very early, using Acquisition after using LimeWire is like... using OS X after Xp (oooh! Bad troll! how'd you get in here?!?)
I don't know the guy who writes it or anything, but he's a fellow Canadian so I feel the need to plug.
Suggestions for the not-so-techincally adept? (Score:2)
I've installed and removed Morpheus on my machine. I installed Limewire, and it's still installed at the moment.
I can uninstall software; that's no problem... if I can find it. Can anyone direct us on how to remove the stealware from our systems? Oh, and I have Limewire installed on both Linux and Windows machines.
Re:Suggestions for the not-so-techincally adept? (Score:3, Informative)
Furthurnet.com (Score:5, Informative)
Furthurnet.com is a system where fans of bands which allow bootlegging of live concerts post full sets from those shows.
Pros:
*Free, no ads, no spyware, nothin
*Legal - music is only by bands who approve
*New stuff - you can get stuff no on CD's yet
*Live stuff - could be a plus or minus depending on the artist, but its a new perspective.
Cons:
*Bigger - they're recorded in a non-lossy format shn, so a full concert is anywhere between 200-600 meg
*Recording quality not as good - depending on the band, the recorder and show, the acoustics and equipment aren't as good as live CD's and certainly not as clean as studio.
*Fewer artists
I just discovered this a few days ago looking for Jack Johnson stuff. I love it. Take a look. Its on Win and linux (maybe Mac too, not sure)
Re:Furthurnet.com (Score:3, Insightful)
But thats my $.01 (its not worth 2)
Is this true? (Score:2)
How does it work? How do you detect if you have it on your system?
While I normally trust the NYT (as much as I trust any paper), I'd kind of like to have some verification of these claims from the hacker commmunity because this sounds way too much like some sort of industry scare tactic.
Once again....use a virtual machine (Score:5, Interesting)
File sharing companies are, at the very best, a dubious bunch. Experience has shown tht they will try to screw up your machine in some way.
So...let them. They'll find some way of doing it eventually anyway. The trick? Just make sure the 'machine' is a virtual machine. I personally use Virtual PC for Windows [connectix.com], but VMWare [vmware.com] would do just as well.
Make a blank virtual machine, install your P2P clients on it and take a back-up of that file. Then use that machine for nothing but P2P. The result? Spyware is useless, because there's nothing happening to actually spy on. The machine gets too spyware-ridden? No problem - delete the current machine and restore from that fresh backup you took.
Cheers,
Ian
Ok (Score:3, Insightful)
You may have given somebody permission as far as your browser goes but that doesn't give you the right to change a link on a persons website... You can agree all day long but it isn't *your* link nor is it *your* commission being stolen.
I find this rather repulsive but I have to admit this is rather ingenious ( in an evil scientist kind of way ). However, the fact that a user accepts it in the EULA doesn't remove the fact that they don't have a contract with the website owner giving them permission to do this.
Use vmware (Score:3, Informative)
How to rid of it (Score:2, Informative)
Users wont care (Score:2)
All of them know they are stealing already. The fact that the software they are using is also stealing from others wont faze them in the slightest.
BTW the mentioning of 'a charity' in the article was cheap as almost all affiliates will be merchants. It was mentioned to draw emotion, when the reality is different. Poor form.
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smokey the bear loves wallpapers australia [wallpaperscoverings.com]
LimeWire (Score:2)
I tried gtk-gnutella and it wouldn't connect, I liked bearshare when I was using windoze, and setup my firewall to prevent spyware traffic.
It's against the affiliate agreement for amazon. (Score:5, Informative)
Section 5, at the end:
In addition, you may not: [snip] (b) read, intercept, record, redirect, interpret, or fill in the contents of any electronic form or other materials submitted to us by any person or entity;
Limewire on linux (Score:2, Interesting)
Bastards
Killing the Goose. (Score:2, Interesting)
So being sneaky and nasty is really not in their best interest.
It's truly strange to think that the age of Napster was not a portent of the future, but an aberrant burp; that we might be going toward K. W. Jeter's Noir [amazon.com] , in which copyright "pirates" are tracked down by bounty hunters who suck out their brains, which are then embedded into radios or toasters for an existence of infinite torment and given to the artist whose works were infringed, instead of Distraction [amazon.com] , in which infotech-based gift and reputation societies rise to pre-eminence in a United States, its copyright-dependent economy reduced to rubble when China flooded the world with copyright-free copies of the U.S.'s bounty.
Okay, either future would be strange, but they're excellent books.
Wonder who will get the commission on these links?
Adam Brate (ab at adambrate dot com)
Shocked! (Score:5, Funny)
hey, nice idea (Score:5, Funny)
Be interesting to see Tiscali's reaction to this (Score:2)
Then again, when has ripping off/exploiting the impoverised ever stopped a corporate entity in its quest for an extra dollar of profit?
What version of LimeWire? (Score:2)
I run LimeWire straight from console in Linux (and Windows) using "java -jar LimeWire.jar", mainly cause I don't trust their installer to not install spyware. You can download this platform-independant .jar from their website [limewire.com] using "LimeWireLinux.tgz" or "LimeWireWinNoVm.zip". Does this spyware exist in the .jar version, or only in the .EXE installer version? And if it is in the .jar file, does it function in Linux (I seriously doubt it)? If so, how?
What you you have both installed? (Score:2, Funny)
Gnucleus (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.gnucleus.com/
http://gnucleus.sourceforge.net/
And it's Not Evil.
Unlike many file sharing systems, Gnucleus is not run by a company. This project has been active for over a year and no one has made a dime of it. We do not want your money, we want your support in development and making this program something great. Few windows programs are open-source, this is one of the few, because of that it is impossible for us to ever charge you for this program or future versions. I make this program out of my need for a honest file sharing system.
Solution (Score:4, Insightful)
Has to be said... (Score:3, Funny)
and bonus points to anyone who pictures the artwork with that caption from the old D&D books (Dungeon Master's Guide?) when they hear that phrase
Just use winMX (Score:3, Informative)
It's a much better client than morpheus/kazaa, its network size has passed the threshold to be useful.
Doesn't matter for students, really... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've gotten quite a workout on my legs from running up and down the stairs getting to each computer in a 7 story building, though.
But seriously - I've gone so far as to do a free-pizza-if-you-come-here-and-listen-to-me presentation on how KaZaa is bad, and I'll still see KaZaa on every desktop I touch (except mine, of course).
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Finally (Score:4, Interesting)
Nice!
The idiot Kirk did create my favorite juxatposition of quotes: So now he is threatening to sue people who quote him? He is a complete ass.
The stupidest thing out of all of this. The merchants who go with them see an increase in affiliate sales - sure, because they are paying affiliate comissions now even if someone just typed the site name into the browser! These companies do not drive traffic or promote the companies, they leave that to webmasters, they just step in at the last minute and grab the sale. In the long run this seriously impacts merchants and causes them to see a lower return on their affiliate programs, and then as affiliates leave since their commissions are being taken, the merchant is left with nothing.
The ad networks love this because they are paid a % on each comission. So what do they care? Comission Junction has gone from trusted third party, to scam that will do anything not illegal. I guess the idea of being ethical is beyond them? Phww.. Surprise, they are an idealab company.
Chet
Are they idiots? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why do they believe that the user's agreement makes this legal? An agreement between two parties cannot, as a general rule, relinquish the rights of a third party. This is almost certainly felony fraud, earning the players 5-10 in the clink. I hope the players have good attorneys. As soon as the victims (hint: not the user) hear about this and file a complaint, charges will be filed. They're not going to be civil charges, and it's not going to be judge Judy.
Some people are really stupid about the internet! "Oh, this is the internet, therefore if I do something unethical, they must not have passed a law against that yet." Not so. God. DUMB!!!!!
C//
Re:just great... (Score:2, Informative)
It's already been done [kazaalite.com].
Re:just great... (HOW TO REMOVE) (Score:5, Informative)
A Software Cleanup
Computer users who want to remove shopping software from their machines can do so in a few steps. Instructions for removing three of the most common programs:
BUYERSPORT - The shopping software with Morpheus:
Click the Start button.
Click on Find.
Click on Find Files or Folders.
Type in mbho.dll. Click on find now. When the file appears in the directory window, drag mbho.dll into the trash.
LIMESHOP - The software with LimeWire:
Click the Start button.
Click on Settings.
Click Control Panel.
Double-click Add/Remove Programs.
Click LimeShop.
Click Add/Remove.
SAVENOW - The software used by Kazaa:
Click on Start.
Click Settings.
Click on Control Panel.
Double-click on Add/Remove Programs.
Click SaveNow.
Click on Add/Remove.
Amazon won't stand for this (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Amazon won't stand for this (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Um, does the phrase massive lawsuit mean anythi (Score:3, Insightful)
IANAL but... The EULA claim is irrelevant. Even if the EULA were enforceable - which it obviously is not no contract between scumcorp and the user can affect the rights of the afilliate and Amazon.
The EULA is invalid for so many reasons it isn't funny. First no contract can in any case give a license to perform an illegal act. Second no EULA entered into through a clickwrap agreement has ever been enforced for a term remotely close to this.
But the EULA is in any case irrelevant because it is clear that Kazza is no more legit than Naster was.
Of course crooks of this type tend to be litigious and there is every chance they will bring nuisance lawsuits to try to silence their critics. I don't think it will work in this case since even the RIAA can probably see that it is in their interests to make sure that any scum lawsuits are fought.
I have argued on many occasions that the way to kill theftware is to go after their money supply. In particular make any company whose roduct is bundled with theftware liable for damages to the RIAA.
Re:Um, does the phrase massive lawsuit mean anythi (Score:3, Interesting)
Come on, who REALLY reads a EULA? It's just the annoying thing you need to click "OK" on or the software quits the install program. Nobody takes that shit seriously. What we do take seriously is when viruses and trojans get installed on our computer all hiding behind some legalistic bullshit. If you put in your EULA that you can come to my house and kill my children and I passively click "OK" without reading it it's still illegal to come to my house and kill my children! There are still laws that have to be followed that override a EULA.
The broader picture (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Legal? (Score:3, Insightful)
The flipside of this is they can screw you over in any illegal way they like and there's just about jack you can do about it. It's like owing your bookie money. Because the debt CAN'T be legally enforced, you have to pay it.
Re:Reprehensible (Score:4, Interesting)
In a truly civilized world these bastards would die a very prolonged, extremely painful public death.
What did you expect (Score:2)
However I am surprised by all the posts coming in a massive outcry. There is nothing surprising : The the whole principle of p2p is based on ignoring traditionnal morality to bring personnal satisfaction at no cost or price. So this is not even taking it a step further it just another instance of a same concept!
So what?
Re:Steal from charities??? (Score:3, Interesting)
Alot are saying this. But yet they *do* see the difference between downloading an album versus shoplifting it from Best Buy.
KaZaa/Morpheus/etc all reek of get-rich-quick schemes based on the success of Napster.
I'm no more shocked than when I get an e-mail promising free porn, and then end up with 9000 popups eaching wanting to charge a dollar on my credit card for 'age verification purposes'.
You can always hide behind some legalese gobbledy-gook in an EULA. All hail the mighty litigator.
Re:Way beyond the pale (Score:4, Insightful)
Want to prosecute P2P systems? Get in line...
Re:Way beyond the pale (Score:4, Interesting)
So this would be a perfect example of how a P2P network can be used for good, and as a marketing tool. Interesting to note that this artist didn't seem to mind the notion that the legion of Kazaa users they probably just created might then go and pirate all their songs, but given that ICP charged some $100 to get in to this packed conference and convention, they've obviously found some alternative revenue sources.
The problem with the "it has legitimate uses!" argument is that there aren't enough examples like this to offset the illegal ones. Note to artists: don't webcast your concerts - no one can watch them anyway with server overload and no one wants to watch U2 in RealMedia anyway. Do this sort of thing instead.
Second that question (Score:3, Insightful)
An AC saying it's windows only with no documentation doesn't exactly satisfy me... I tried it out a few weeks back and didn't see any evidence of abuse, but then I wasn't looking for it, silly me I thought Limewire were the good guys. Grrr. I like Mldonkey a lot better anyway, but now I'm wondering if I may have gotten some bugs piggybacked on the Limewire client that I'm not even using. If anyone knows what to look for it would be appreciated...