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Windows XP to Target MP3 Files

Posted by michael on Thu Apr 12, 2001 07:57 AM
from the beginning-of-the-end dept.
blown.penguin writes: "Reuters UK reports that Microsoft and RealNetworks plan to "wean customers way from MP3 files" and "limit the quality" of MP3 files that can be recorded on a computer running Windows XP. You can read all about it here." The entire Wall Street Journal story is here. Read it and weep. Dave Farber (who, incidentally, does understand the issues and isn't making this comment in a "get used to it" sense) has a great quote: "The consumer is going to eat what he's given."
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  • Not this consumer... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:02AM
  • what is new? 98 etc does this, theres no issue by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:14AM
  • Re:Not even that. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:41AM
  • not to mention, 64k wma files sound like ass by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:53PM
  • Re:They'll limit what can be *recorded* by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:15AM
  • RealPlayer by Mike Hicks (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:12AM
  • Re:So ? by Mike Hicks (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:24AM
  • Not even that. (Score:4)

    by Wakko Warner (324) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:47AM (#296268) Homepage Journal
    They're only limiting the rate at which their *own* software can create MP3s (to 56k). If you were to download LAME for Windows, or any of the myriad other MP3 encoders for Windows, you'd still be able to create MP3s at whichever rate you wanted to.

    Who the hell uses Windows' built-in applications anyway?

    - A.P.

    --
    Forget Napster. Why not really break the law?

  • Re:This is probably a good thing. by Alan (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:51AM
  • Re:love Big Guy's thoughts on interoperability by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:22AM
  • How strange. Batten down the hatches... by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:45AM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by Danse (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:19AM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by Danse (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @07:59AM
  • Re:We should think of it as a blessing... by jedidiah (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:08AM
  • Re:Response from the Linux Community by jedidiah (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:23AM
  • How can they do it? Conjectures within... by Kaz Kylheku (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:58AM
  • Re:Nobody will use it. by Daniel (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:43AM
  • Re:WMA strategy by Daniel (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @12:36PM
  • by Daniel (1678) <dburrows@@@debian...org> on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:45AM (#296279)
    I'd love to know how this is going to be accomplished. Prevent Windows Media Player from playing mp3s / recording over a certain bitrate? Sure. Prevent another mp3 player from doing this? How, exactly?

    I don't think they need to; most people will use what they're given, and if the Microsoft Spiffy Audio Format sounds better, they'll use that.

    Daniel
  • Re:This is probably a good thing. by Jason Earl (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:13AM
  • Re:This is probably a good thing. by Jason Earl (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:37AM
  • Re:This is probably not what you think. by Jason Earl (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:56AM
  • Re:This is probably a good thing. by Jason Earl (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:59AM
  • by Jason Earl (1894) on Thursday April 12 2001, @06:48AM (#296284) Homepage

    Linux is an OS. People are not going to reinstall/delete their harddrive over this. What about their games? What about compatiblility with what they use at work?

    The same could easily be said for Windows XP. Believe it or not Microsoft has got to sell Windows XP. If Windows XP is chuck full of stupid "features" that are actually disincentives to the upgrade then people will stick with what they have. This is nearly as dangerous for Microsoft as if the user had switched to Linux. Remember, Microsoft's biggest competitor isn't Corel, or Oracle, or IBM, or even the amorphous "Linux," Micrsoft's biggest competitor is previous versions of their own software.

    Even worse issues like games and compatibility with work also make it more likely that people will stick with what they have. I don't know of any businesses that have rolled out Windows XP (nor do I know of any that have done a serious desktop rollout of Windows 2000, for that matter). They should be making their operating system as attractive to buyers as they possibly can. Instead they are lining up an initiative to treat their customers as copyright breaking thieves. Things like WMA and the new copy protection scheme aren't likely to entire current Windows users to this new OS.

    Meanwhile Linux will continue to grow. naysayers have been predicting its imminent demise since it's first arrival on the scene, and they have always been spectacularly wrong. The reason for this is simple, Linux is too darned useful. It's price tag is a siren song for hackers and entrepreneurs everywhere, and the cost of maintaining the infrastructure that keeps Linux alive is negligible. Microsoft can't bankrupt Linux, it can't buy Linux, and it can't intimidate enough Linuxers to make a difference.

    This doesn't make Linux better than Windows. I personally don't think that Linux is ready for the desktop, for example. But it does guarantee that Linux will keep growing, and that it will continue to become a more viable alternative every day. If Microsoft continues to misuse their customers they will someday find that most of them are jumping ship.

  • Re:Yeah right by acb (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:17AM
  • Has desktop Linux peaked? by acb (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:24AM
  • Re:Good news, bad news by acb (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:29AM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by acb (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:44AM
  • Restraint of trade? by acb (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:58AM
  • Re:Giant corporations != culture by acb (Score:2) Saturday April 14 2001, @06:17AM
  • by acb (2797) on Thursday April 12 2001, @09:00AM (#296291) Homepage
    The mass media is not culture. Culture is not something made by the beautiful freaks of Hollywood and an army of marketroids and handed down from the megacorps to the hungry, bored consumer masses below; culture is something people create and interact and participate in. And buying consumer goods product-placed in TV shows doesn't count as participation in culture.

    If you want to see culture, go to a band venue and see some live bands, or to an art exhibition, or read a book. But if you don't make the effort to participate, it is not culture. Purchased experiences don't count.

    There is little difference between a sedentary, passive couch potato and the most benighted barbarian; in fact, it is arguable that most "primitive" societies, with their rituals and oral traditions, have infinitely more culture per capita than contemporary Western consumerist society.
  • XP = Windows with Big Brother expansion pack by bjb (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:18AM
  • Available for OS/2 here by SpiceWare (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:02AM
  • Re:MP3 -- WMA by Genom (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:19AM
  • Re:what does XP stand for!! HERE'S WHAT by Genom (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:25AM
  • Re:So ? by ajv (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:59AM
  • Re:i hate ms by ajv (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:57AM
  • by ajv (4061) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:51AM (#296298) Homepage

    I say never let facts get in the way of a good Microsoft bashing article on /. For the very, very few of you using beta 2, the following registry key is of interest.

    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaPlaye r\ Settings\MP3Encoding]
    "LowRate"=dword:0001f400

    Just change it. The above will change it 128k (from 56k). The UI shows this and reflects it.

    Also Media Player 8 will allow you to encode .wma files without setting the license keys. I'm not sure that this will make it to the final release, or even WMP9, but ...

  • by ajv (4061) on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:10AM (#296299) Homepage

    /. ... Microsoft ... FUD... where to begin? Let's start with some facts from a beta tester.

    In beta 2, the supplied MP3 encoder gets its Low Rate setting from the registry. This is set at the factory to 56k. You can go into the registry and change 56k to 128k or whatever. And it works, but 64k .wma files sound better than 128k mp3 files, and use less than half the space. And, so far, you can continue to turn off licensing your .wma files.

    There are no NTFS or other deliberate data corruption ploys. I have existing MP3 files that play just fine in WMP and in WinAmp (which also continues to work).

    CuteRip, my favorite ripper before WMP, continues to work, and continues to encode at whatever setting I set it to. WMP 8 plays these files just fine. But compared to WMP8, CuteRip is feature poor and slow. WMP8 not only goes and grabs the titles without paying for it, it retrieves album art work and orders it properly for you in your media library. As soon as you start ripping in WMP8, it starts playing the encoded files, and it encodes both .wma or .mp3 on my PIII/700 laptop about 3x real time. It's flawless. There seems to be no penalty for playing whilst ripping. It has digital and analog error correction if your CDs have a few scratches like mine do.

    Microsoft may or may not ship a MP3 encoder with WMP 8, but it is in beta 2. Microsoft may or may not ship WMP 8 with the ability to turn off licensing .wma files, but it is in beta 2.

    Sorry for the barrage of facts. I'm now returing you to your regularly scheduled fact-free Microsoft bash.

  • Re:How are they going to do this? by ink (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:32AM
  • by jamiemccarthy (4847) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:54AM (#296301) Homepage Journal
    "somebody will make a program that rips cd's into a weird new extensions like .FMS (fuck microsoft) instead of .mp3

    stupid winxp will not realize what's going on..."

    WinXP will be leased, not bought. It will contact a server at Microsoft headquarters every n days to confirm whether it needs "system updates" or not. And if your net connection is down for more than k days, your system will refuse to run, so don't think you can just pull the ethernet jack and use a (crippled) system.

    If a program to use your .FMS extension ever gets more than 1,000 users, Microsoft will patch the operating system to exclude it, and within a few days your workaround will stop working.

    This will happen back and forth a few times until 99% of the userbase gets thoroughly sick of it and uses whatever format Microsoft makes it easy to use. Ease-of-use, slow and steady, wins the race.

    Don't think Microsoft will zap out your program from Redmond? Think DirecTV [slashdot.org]. They own the operating system from boot to shutdown. No matter how clever you are, they will take your program down remotely.

    That's the short-term fix. In the long-term, 5 to 10 years, you will find that Microsoft and the hardware manufacturers will team up to create an audio standard which requires you to know a secret key to put data to your computer's speakers. If you don't apply to Microsoft for a special license, your program will be unable to make noise -- without going through Microsoft's API, of course, which will make only noises guaranteed not to infringe copyright, like boops, beeps, or files stored in whatever format Microsoft makes it easy to use.

    Enterprising hackers will of course find and steal secret keys, so that they can release freeware MP3 players that run on Windows. But again, as soon as these programs get popular enough to show up on Microsoft's radar, the operating system will download the new patches which specifically forbid these programs from working.

    Try to understand. Microsoft's eventual plan is that you will not own your computer anymore. They will own your computer, and lease its use to you on very specific licensing terms. Their long-term goal is that people who try to use their computers like Turing machines, thinking they can make them do anything they want, will go to jail.

    Jamie McCarthy

  • Napster only uses mp3s by CMiYC (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:18AM
  • isn't it obvious? by garcia (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:33AM
  • Re:This is probably not what you think. by Darkstorm (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:00AM
  • Re:XP...Whislter...."For Morons" by Darkstorm (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:07AM
  • XP...Whislter...."For Morons" by Darkstorm (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:21AM
  • Re:This is probably not what you think. by Darkstorm (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:32AM
  • by hatless (8275) on Thursday April 12 2001, @07:30AM (#296308)
    You wrote:
    That's the short-term fix. In the long-term, 5 to 10 years, you will find that Microsoft and the hardware manufacturers will team up to create an audio standard which requires you to know a secret key to put data to your computer's speakers. If you don't apply to Microsoft for a special license, your program will be unable to make noise -- without going through Microsoft's API, of course, which will make only noises guaranteed not to infringe copyright, like boops, beeps, or files stored in whatever format Microsoft makes it easy to use.

    It's here already. It's called Secure Audio Path. Windows ME can do it, and XP will ship with it built in. See this, [wired.com] among other items.

    The idea is that with compliant audio hardware--presumably all audio hardware within a year or two--an encrypted stream will be handed to "smart" audio hardware. If it's a secured media format, it needs to be decrypted, upon authorization, by the hardware. If it's unencrypted, it will only play if it's not watermarked. Similar work has been done on video hardware that would refuse to display cracked, watermarked video streams.

    Even if you have Linux drivers for this hardware, and even if you can get to your BIOS settings, which Microsoft now demands be undocumented onscreen as a condition to granting hardware certification, and somehow manage to install Linux on this new hardware, the audio hardware is doing rights management for you.

    Air supply thus cut off. Checkmate.
  • Re:RealJukebox already there by BrerBear (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:52AM
  • by Thag (8436) on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:03AM (#296310) Homepage
    What, exactly, is the value for me the consumer in buying this POS operating system anyway?

    My apps won't work, the interface is dumbed down and therefore aggravating, backwards compatibility is questionable, and let's not forget the damn thing won't even be servicable for two more service packs!

    What? What the fsck is the POINT?

    Honestly, I'm glad I've been looking into Linux, because I'm going to FORCED onto Linux!

    Jon Acheson
  • And the CUSTOMERS asked for THIS? NOT! by Locutus (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:30AM
  • Re:What this really means by Locutus (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:08AM
  • by Locutus (9039) on Thursday April 12 2001, @08:55AM (#296313)
    I wonder if the customers asked for Microsoft to downgrade the quality of MP3 recording capabilities? I wonder if customers asked for a non-standard Java implementation? I wonder if customers asked for a booting systems which makes it really hard to boot other OS's?

    This is another Microsoft Embrace/Extend/Extinguish tacktic which gives them the right to dictate the contend on CUSTOMERS computers. What's next html, XML, smtp, or any open standard? Would Quicktime, Real, or other proprietary technology also get downgraded by Microsoft Pre-Installed applications?

    I think THAT is why people are upset about this. IMHO.

    LoB
  • Re:adoption by the masses by benmhall (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:34AM
  • Re:Not me by Cid Highwind (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:00AM
  • Re:We should think of it as a blessing... by Cid Highwind (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:04AM
  • [OT] wine and gaming by Cid Highwind (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:12AM
  • Re:Hm. by Seraph (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:10AM
  • YARNTUTWXP by ch-chuck (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:13AM
  • Re:Windows NEVER Came With HQ MP3 Codecs by nuxx (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:28AM
  • Windows NEVER Came With HQ MP3 Codecs by nuxx (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:30AM
  • Re:Windows NEVER Came With HQ MP3 Codecs by RayChuang (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:59AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis (needs a new name) by tuffy (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:44AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis by tuffy (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:26AM
  • The balkanization of the web. by crovira (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:31AM
  • by Kope (11702) on Thursday April 12 2001, @06:16AM (#296326)

    What is happening, and what will continue to happen, is that the corporate interests will come together to limit the consumer's IP rights not through legislation (though they are trying that route very successfully as well) but through the coercive force of product lines. By making it very inconvinient for the average consumer (and face it folks, /. readers aren't average consumers of computer gear!) to excercise their rights under current copyright law, the manufacturers can errode those rights.

    If you can't make a recording for fair use without hacking hardware and software, then you won't be making that recording, if you are the average consumer. And after a few years of virtually no-one excercising their rights to fair-use, the notion that those rights exist will slowly be eroded and THEN it will be far easier to pass legislation outright stripping those rights from the public.

    The problem with this, and similar stories, is that no effective public information campaign will be fought against it. Anyone who stands up and yells "foul" will be shot down as either an evil napster-esque hacker/cracker or an anti-Microsoft bigot. In either case you will be considered safe to ignore by the average consumer - adn the result will be that teh sheople will do what the corporations want them to do.

    The only real way to counter this trend is to get congress to pass legislation that mandates that any consumer recording/playback device include the ability for people to excercise their fair use rights on all media forms that are handled in recording/playback -- either in the product or in an optional add-on. This will stop the trend of making products that are "broken" with regards to fair-use by design. Unfortunately, it will have the side-effect of increasing cost of consumer goods, as the corporate entities will use that sort of law as an excuse to raise prices.

    Of course, such a law will never happen, congress is far to beholden to the big corporations to ever do anything to actually protect the people from bad corporate policies. So those of us who are clued can watch in frustration as our ability to excercise our first amendment rights are slowly and meticulously stripped from us by the refusal of corporations to provide the consumers the means to excercise those rights. But we'll all be happy 'cuase we'll have such nice cheap products to entertain us!

  • by Admiral Burrito (11807) on Thursday April 12 2001, @07:55AM (#296327)
    Well I have news for them: No consumer will choose to eat shit over cake.

    Most folks out there don't know how to rip MP3s. They either need to get help from a friend, or they need apps bundled with Windows. Otherwise they're just left wondering "what is a ripper?" For them, shit vs. cake is going to be a question of crippled MP3 or full-quality WMA. With the scales so tipped, MP3 is not the cake!

  • Re:cracked in 5 seconds by Lumpy (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:39AM
  • How long til someone sues MS for this? by cablemite (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:36AM
  • They'll limit what can be *recorded* by dejaffa (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:04AM
  • Screw windows anyway..... by UnkyHerb (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:36AM
  • Re:So ? by Miguelito (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:37AM
  • Ogg Vorbis (Score:5)

    by image (13487) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:13AM (#296333) Homepage
    All the more reason to agressively push for the adoption and penetration of Ogg Vorbis.

    By know, everyone in the know should have checked out the Xiphophorus company homepage [xiph.org], and taken a look at Ogg [xiph.org] and Vorbis [xiph.org].

    If we can create a Napster-like groundswell for an open audio codec such as Vorbis, then it will not matter if Windows XP ships with only Windows Media Audio and the Windows Media Player. The fact is, while WMA is good, it isn't open or free, and and the Windows player isn't as strong as WinAmp or XMMS.

    Free is good. That is why Napster did so well. If the downloadable audio market is saturated by ".ogg" files and flooded with high quality and free audio players, then Ogg Vorbis has a chance of beating those nasty little ".wma"'s.
  • Re:Worse Than You Think by Graymalkin (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:11AM
  • Re:What this really means by Graymalkin (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:21AM
  • Re:What this really means by Graymalkin (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @12:27PM
  • Re:Worse Than You Think by Graymalkin (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:28PM
  • Re:Tempting for ordinary users by ethereal (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:09AM
  • Re:I don't agree... by ethereal (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:05AM
  • Re:Problem solved by ssklar (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:58AM
  • Re:Giant corporations != culture by pheonix (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @04:55AM
  • Re:Giant corporations != culture by pheonix (Score:1) Sunday April 15 2001, @06:11PM
  • Consumer = Ultimate Designer of software by bruceg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:41AM
  • Or better The consumer is goint to eat Elsewhere by IQ (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:23AM
  • You didn't read the articles did you by Photon Ghoul (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:07AM
  • M$ at is again! by johnnnyboy (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:31AM
  • Re:Market Control by Tim C (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:27AM
  • Re:So what? by pal (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:35AM
  • But this wasn't on Slashdot? Had to be.. right? by Felinoid (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:21AM
  • Re:Who made Microsoft GOD?! by Felinoid (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:54AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by Sancho (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:49AM
  • What this really means by cahopper (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:35AM
  • Know thy enemy (Score:3)

    by rakjr (18074) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:32AM (#296353)
    • "Microsoft, for example, plans to severely limit the quality of music that can be recorded as an MP3 file using software built into the next version of its personal-computer operating system, Windows XP, according to the report.""Under Microsoft's new restrictions -- which prevent its built-in software from recording MP3 files at fidelity rates higher than 56 kilobits per second -- MP3 music "sounds like somebody in a phone booth underwater," says P.J. McNealy, an analyst who researches Internet audio issues for Gartner Inc. in Stamford, Conn. (Existing versions of Microsoft's audio software don't allow consumers to record music as MP3 files of any quality.)"
    This part sounds like an easy thing to overcome. The problem is...
    • "if MS somehow disabled or crippled the ability of other MP3 encoders to work under XP."
    This sounds more like Microsoft's past practices. (1) Microsoft has in the past, for the benefit of its customers, crippled their OS in ways the caused odd failures with their windows product line. Those targeted were DR DOS, Novell DOS, and Borland, to name a few. (2) With Microsoft's current mode of updating, they do not need to ship a crippled XP, they can progressively over time reduce the ability of other MP3 encoders functionality. This would be done as part of their BUG fixes. Try to name a MS patch which has not broken something new. This set of patches will just happen to have a target.
  • Re:Hm. by heinzkeinz (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:27AM
  • Re:i hate ms by yog (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:49AM
  • by magic (19621) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:22AM (#296356) Homepage
    Microsoft said its decision not to include built-in support for recording better-sounding MP3 music also avoids it having to pay license fees required by Thomson Multimedia SA and the Fraunhofer Institut, which collect at least US$2.50 from software vendors for each copy of recording software based on their MP3 technology.

    It seems like Microsoft, not the customer is the one trying to slip out of a license :).

    I've never used MS products to record or play MP3's, so I could care less about MS's lack of support.

    Compare all of this to Apple, who just released the best MP3 encoder/ripper/song manager/cd burner program I've ever used, iTunes. Oh yeah, Apple makes their product free to everyone, too. With OSX running both MS Office, apple apps and all of my favorite unix tools, why would I upgrade to Win XP instead of throwing out my PC and getting a G4? Maybe even a Titanium G4 with a GeForce3... :)

    -m

  • More bad reporting... by mindstrm (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:18AM
  • Please read the whole story by lythander (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • Depends what you mean by "open" by gruntvald (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @02:37PM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by MindStalker (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:14AM
  • Poor Windows Support Techs... by martinm_76 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:39AM
  • This is why monopoly is dangerous by EvlG (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:11AM
  • Marcovision is proprietary?! by ConceptJunkie (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:58AM
  • Re:Marcovision is proprietary?! by ConceptJunkie (Score:2) Friday April 13 2001, @06:47AM
  • mmm....sausage by majcher (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:30AM
  • blind Microsoft bashing - perfectly reasonable by Ranger Nik (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @02:53PM
  • Evil Empire... by WyldOne (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:35AM
  • Re:i hate ms by lhand (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:15AM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by Wah (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:20AM
  • Remember... (Score:3)

    by Shotgun (30919) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:23AM (#296370)
    Yesterday's interview with Mr. Young. People don't want to run an operating system. They want applications. Keep it up M$. Linux, BSD, et.al. continues to grow daily.

  • I LOVE this by reneky (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • i'm astonished ... by jonMC (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:08AM
  • Re:This is stupid! by Flower (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:37AM
  • ...has a great quote: "The consumer is going to eat what he's given."

    This is obvious bait, Michael, so I'll take it. A statement, such as the one above, is exactly the kind of thing you'd expect from a monopoly. The customer is going to have to settle with whatever we want? What kind of business practice is that in a normal market?

    The correct answer, Microsoft, is that the consumer will get whatever he demands. This, and the active registration, is further proof that what the consumer wants does not matter to Microsoft. It is what THEY want.

  • Re:Yeah right by Red Moose (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • by leereyno (32197) on Thursday April 12 2001, @08:01AM (#296376) Homepage Journal
    The article does NOT say that the rent-a-center version of Windows will not play MP3 files. Neither does it say that it will be fundamentally crippled when it comes to the creation of MP3 files.

    What it does say is that Microsoft will limit the ability of the built-in media creation tools to create MP3 files in favor of their own MWA format.

    In other words it doesn't matter. Anyone wanting to create MP3s will simply use something else.

    But to read the responses that people post, you'd think that XP had an anti-MP3 layer built in to the OS itself preventing both the playback of existing MP3's, as well as causing applications that can create them to crash.

    A conclusion is a foolish thing to jump to.

    If the word .DOC format is any indication, I wouldn't touch WMA with a ten foot pole. Why give M$ yet another way to create incompatibilities and headaches when you try to use someone else's products?

    In the big picture open standards are best, even if the standards are not as good as other standards that are proprietary.

    Lee Reynolds
  • What's The Big Deal? by macsforever2001 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:14AM
  • Re:Good news, bad news by mjpaci (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:00AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis by SpinyNorman (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:31AM
  • 8 days? by BLKMGK (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:34AM
  • ROTFL!!! by BLKMGK (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:40AM
  • YES at last, intelligent life!!!! by BLKMGK (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:46AM
  • Troll.... by BLKMGK (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:50AM
  • oh please by cebe (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:38PM
  • love Big Guy's thoughts on interoperability by Kwantus (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:07AM
  • Re:Throwing down the Guantlet by Grand Facade (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:09AM
  • Re:i hate ms by el_chicano (Score:2) Friday April 13 2001, @05:00AM
  • Re:the Hardware Spec by gorilla (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:25AM
  • Re:Nobody will care. by .pentai. (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:01AM
  • Re:Simple answer.... by K8Fan (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:51AM
  • Re:Depends what you mean by "open" by HerrNewton (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:43PM
  • Re:Depends what you mean by "open" by HerrNewton (Score:2) Friday April 13 2001, @12:51PM
  • Re:this is a non-issue by irishmikev (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:53AM
  • Please Read the Whole Story by irishmikev (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:55AM
  • WMA Better and samller? by winse (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:44AM
  • Re:Market Control - Whats more likely .... by bob_jordan (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:53AM
  • Read the air quotes by MadAhab (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:17AM
  • Re:Hm. (Score:4)

    by MadAhab (40080) <slasher AT ahab DOT com> on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:37AM (#296398) Homepage Journal
    The article also implies that Microsoft has jiggered an API yet again to screw everyone who isn't them. The implication is that the API for reading raw data off a CD-ROM (errorneously written as as "writing" in the article?) has changed. Even the WSJ knew that it was bull when they were told "existing software may need to be 'optimized' for XP". They knew damn well it meant "rescued from a blatant attempt to break it."

    It's not unbelievable, either. What applications need lots of fast, raw, error-corrected access to CD-ROMs? CD rippers, and that's about it. The games market, Real Media, etc, can be coerced into "optimizing" for XP.

    And despite the "gee, whiz, this shoar will help lee-nux" posts, the only people who can rejoice over this are 1) Fraunhofer and 2) Real Media. I bet that 50% of the CDs out there are Real-Jukebox-ripped. Although proprietary and enshitted formats are the default, most people seem to figger it out and get mp3s (which goes to show how much computer illiteracy goes out the window when "free stuff" is the reward).

    Boss of nothin. Big deal.
    Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.

  • Floating Ads? by withak (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:10AM
  • Re:Nobody will care. by Malcontent (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:49PM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by Juln (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @02:48PM
  • Software, not the OS by CAIMLAS (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:37AM
  • Sit 'n Spin by _Sprocket_ (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:15AM
  • Re:Nobody will care. by Anopheles (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:33AM
  • imac by haledon (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:07AM
  • Tempting for ordinary users by GoofyBoy (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:55AM
  • Re:This is probably a good thing. by GoofyBoy (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:59AM
  • Re:Nice Troll by GoofyBoy (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:58AM
  • Besides, I'll never get locked out of my MP3 files by xixax (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:49PM
  • What about quality music? by byronne (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:27AM
  • beginning-of-the-end for who? by Mr. Slippery (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:43AM
  • Re:Are you serious? by Mr. Slippery (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:12AM
  • by hattig (47930) on Thursday April 12 2001, @07:08AM (#296413) Journal
    Instead they are lining up an initiative to treat their customers as copyright breaking thieves

    Makes me think of a future Linux advert:

    Linux - because you are innocent until proven guilty. (with imagery os happy families watching their holiday videos or whatever)

    Windows - because you are a low life cheating thieving scumball. (with images of business people not being able to copy essential data, "I need this movie NOW! Why won't this machine let me have it?", then images of families not being able to see the home movies with a requestor saying "You are not allowed to copy digital content" "But its OUR content!")

    :-)

  • Re:I don't agree... by Hard_Code (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:03AM
  • Re:Read The Article!!! by paRcat (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @05:24AM
  • by paRcat (50146) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:13AM (#296416) Homepage
    If anyone would care to take a look at the last few paragraphs of the WSJ article, they'd see that this only applies to the MS software. Any other software, while still needing to be optimized for Windows XP, still has the ability to record at whatever bitrate it wants to.

    They are simply trying to make WMA the standard by bundling in recording software that won't record MP3's over a 56K sampling rate.

  • Re:Ogg Vorbis by commbat (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:04AM
  • Time to improve our skills by Dwonis (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:23PM
  • ISPs can take a bite out of this by Dwonis (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:42PM
  • You know what you get when you A.S.SU.M.E. by caldroun (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:45AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis by 1010011010 (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:50AM
  • Read the Article... by weloytty (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • Re:This is probably not what you think. by grazzy (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:45AM
  • Re:This is probably not what you think. by grazzy (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:43AM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by Anguirel (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:06PM
  • Re:Nice Troll by Anguirel (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:30PM
  • Re:This is probably a good thing. by Anguirel (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:57PM
  • Re:This is probably a good thing. by Anguirel (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:24PM
  • Re:adoption by the masses by Anguirel (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:44PM
  • As David Spade Would Say by Milican (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:14AM
  • Shooting themselves in the foot by Spyky (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • Re:Marcovision is proprietary?! by gotan (Score:2) Friday April 13 2001, @03:29AM
  • by gotan (60103) on Thursday April 12 2001, @06:19AM (#296433) Homepage
    If MS really manages to "unsupport" MP3 into oblivion it may turn out to be not a good thing at all since the Media Industry will happily go along with this scheme (they want content protection at all costs, even if it means to depend on Microsofts proprietary standard, anyone remember the GIF story?). At first everything will be fine and dandy, until most windows people forgot about MP3 players. So: less/crappy MP3-players -> less MP3 -> less music under Linux (you don't think MS will release a player for Linux, do you?). Then the Media Industry will happily screw the consumers until "fair use" is a fairy tale. Next Microsoft will screw Media Industry and Consumers by demanding license fees for their proprietary standard (see Marcovision) Or just make recording software expensive to rent (why sell it at all ...). Maybe they even sell the players (yeah, they come for free ... you only need to purchase Windows).

    The obvious way to thwart this plan is reverse engineering the Microsoft codec. Then it will be DeCSS all over again. The other way is not to use that new standard. But microsoft doing everything to make it look bad and just stopping short of having it's new OS erase them off the HD on sight is really making it hard to convince Joe User to go on with MP3.
  • Re:Er... you missed something... by barracg8 (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:21AM
  • Not that bad (Score:5)

    by fpepin (61704) <fpepin@a e i . ca> on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:30AM (#296435)
    Look at it people, it's not as if MS was going to make sure that no MP3 are going to be able to play on the Windows XP.

    All they're doing is give a low-quality MP3 encoder with it (as compared to none), and have it be able to encode in their own proprietary format with high quality.

    The current encoders might not work all that well right now with it, but they'll be updated so that they can run with it pretty quickly I think.

    Lazy people who just want to use what is built-in might want to start using the Windows Audio format, but there's not much preventing you from keeping your MP3 around.

    Sure MS wants to push against MP3s, but so far they haven't planned anything drastic with it like banning them from their new OS. Yes, they're using their clout to encourage people not to use it and they'll be pretty successful I think, but people will still have a choice.
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by nmx (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @03:27PM
  • This is good for MP3 Applications by xerx (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:01AM
  • A registry setting allowing one to go over 56k doesn't exactly comfort me. Once content controls are built and integrated into Microsoft products, the controls are no longer in my hands but in Microsoft's.

    Microsoft can easily, once the basic mechanism is coded and in place, at any time and with any "Windows Update" patch (now automated?) change the underlying DLLs or OS code to reject registry settings above, say, 56k if its in their interest to do so.

    --LP

  • Response from the Linux Community by AppyPappy (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:15AM
  • Bill F|_|cking Gates by penguin_punk (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:42AM
  • Re:It's here. Secure Audio Path, folks. by deblau (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:18AM
  • Worse Than You Think by Lindril (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:00AM
  • I love this quote: by iceT (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:10AM
  • by iceT (68610) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:15AM (#296444)
    If they push the format to WMV, then they are DEFINATELY NOT weakening their monopoly. MS has no investment in MP3. They can't control the format, they don't get any revenue from it, and they don't don't own a patent on it.
  • RealAudio / Jukebox already does limit mp3s. by blazerw11 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:26AM
  • Re:You didn't read the articles did you by dbrutus (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:55PM
  • Re:This is probably not what you think. by Knobby (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:36AM
  • Only MS provided software will be crippled by scharkalvin (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:53AM
  • by decipher_saint (72686) on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:40AM (#296449) Homepage
    In a stunning statement eariler today, representitves of the juggernaught Microsoft Corporation stated that "To aid in the fight for copyright protection, Windows XP will intermittedly crash, throw exceptions and generally lose track of paging whenever possible in an effort to stop people from interacting with, on any level, coprighted material". This press release confirms an earlier statement that "bugs are now features"...

    -----

  • Re:Hm. by technos (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:16AM
  • by rkent (73434) <rkent@nOspaM.post.harvard.edu> on Thursday April 12 2001, @07:54AM (#296451)
    The same could easily be said for Windows XP. Believe it or not Microsoft has got to sell Windows XP. If Windows XP is chuck full of stupid "features" that are actually disincentives to the upgrade then people will stick with what they have.

    *sigh*... no. Windows XP will be adopted for the same reason Windows ME is being adopted: OEM bundling. No one buys OSs on purpose, they buy a computer, and it needs an OS. What they get will be whatever Microsoft wants to give them.

    And, given that XP is NT-based and ME is still basically a DOS patch, maybe old windows users will be essentially forced to upgrade -- if all the new programs come out "WinXP/2000 compatible," then you are stuck if you don't have an NT-based windows.

    I think they've got this one in the bag. D'oh.

  • Product sales? by mach-5 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:07AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by donstenk (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:13AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by bgraziano (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:48AM
  • I fixed this long ago by Lxy (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:03AM
  • Re:Why can't anyone actually read the article? by dondelelcaro (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:38AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by TummyX (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:14AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by TummyX (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @04:28AM
  • adoption by the masses by passion (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:15AM
  • From my cold dead fingers! by johndill (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:43AM
  • So what? by PenguiN42 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:12AM
  • Ogg Vorbis! by phliar (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:58AM
  • Then and Now by Ukab the Great (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:25AM
  • Re:Nobody will use it. by Geekboy(Wizard) (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:36AM
  • "DOS ain't done 'till Lotus won't run!" by gcrisp (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:44AM
  • Re:Shooting themselves in the foot by inquisitor (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:05PM
  • by donutello (88309) on Thursday April 12 2001, @07:44AM (#296467) Homepage
    How does this crap get moderated up?

    Those specs are for the "Easy PC" - a version of PCs sold to people who don't want to deal with a lot of the stuff a lot of PCs make you deal with today - you know, those same people who like buying fruit-colored cars and computers? There was an article about this on Slashdot a few days ago too. I won't go into the details of why anyone would want to buy a computer like that - this crowd is obviously too narrow-minded to get it - but rest assured that that won't be the only kind of XP Box sold.
  • Windows XP is a set top box operating system... by Henke (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @04:26AM
  • Re:cracked in 5 seconds by Ded Mike (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:39AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by Ded Mike (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @12:17PM
  • Your post is on crack... by rakslice (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:46AM
  • they're not (Score:4)

    by BenHmm (90784) <(moc.yelsremmahneb) (ta) (neb)> on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:25AM (#296472) Homepage
    They talked about it last week, and all they are going to do is not ship Windows Media Player 8 with an MP3 encoding codec. HOWEVER, it is entirely possible to both play MP3s and install someone else's codec.

    Actually I have a copy of WMP8 and it rocks. Built in CD burning, nice interface, a link to a .NETish database that brings cover art and lyrics down for the CDs you rip (into wma, of course) and the new wma codec sounds v.good indeed at 56k.

    Now, I have a nice mp3 player that supports wma, and by ripping with WMP8 at 56k I can get twice the music in my pocket and it sounds better.

    that's such an evil ploy.

  • .wma files by Fastball (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:46AM
  • Attention Dave Farber by NTSwerver (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:07AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by Wolfier (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:10AM
  • Whose "digital rights management"? by webweave (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:33AM
  • Re:They'd better be getting paid a LOT by Tiroth (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:26AM
  • Re:who are the police? by hoser (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @02:04PM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by Steeltoe (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:23AM
  • This announcement is against the law by aphor (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:40AM
  • by aphor (99965) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:30AM (#296481) Journal
    1. The music record industry is not a business of producing music.
    2. The record industry is based on the value of the service they *do* provide.
    3. The record industry *distributes* music, and the business is tied up in lucrative *distribution* agreements.
    4. It used to be difficult to distribute music because of the scarcity of high-power radio transmitters and the bulkiness of the recorded music media.
    5. The Internet has made music distribution cheap and easy.
    6. The value of the services provided by the record industry is now diminished.
    7. Producers and artists (some anyway..) will (achingly) slowly abandon the fantasy of getting obscenely rich overnight through big recording/distribution deals. (Ian MacKaye)
    8. Musicians and producers will learn to make money promoting their fanclubs and networking with their fans who will buy product because they would be despondent if the band stopped making songs.
    9. Music like N'Sync will not sell because their fans will not buy when they can download for free.
    10. One-hit-wonders will make less money for big record companies
    11. Big record companies will have to give better deals to artistic productions because their risk is lower after having established a fan base.
    12. Good musicians will make more, but the most popular will prolly make less.
    13. Bad musicians will have to keep their day jobs for sure.
    14. Record company executives will have to take their golden parachutes in droves.
  • by aphor (99965) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:57AM (#296482) Journal

    Please read Cornell Law School's Antitrust Primer [cornell.edu]. It will explain that it is illegal to use dominance in one market, like the PC OS dominance of Microsoft, inorder to influence another market, like the recording and distribution of music. Start posting the *DAMAGES* to consumer choice so we can talk about the monetary value of what they are taking away. Then we can sue them.

  • Can you set it higher than 128? by lupine (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:09AM
  • Another thing i dont have to worry about by cybercuzco (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:21AM
  • Re:Windows Media Player vs XMMS by mobets (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:47AM
  • Hey, come on.. by Tom7 (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:54AM
  • I don't agree... (Score:4)

    by Tom7 (102298) on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:44AM (#296487) Homepage Journal
    MP3 is effectively an open standard. It is not truly free in the sense of Ogg Vorbis, but in practice people make encoders and decoders without paying a cent to Fraunhaufer. It is, or will become, the GIF of music.

    If in fact MP3 is under fire from The Man, we don't need more fragmentation in the scene. Concentrate on strengthening the MP3 format. IMO, the risk of (effectively) losing freedom regarding the distribution of music is not worth the small gain in freedom from using a free format.
  • Re:So what? by Carnivore (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:34AM
  • Re:This is probably not what you think. by jamesbulman (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:23AM
  • Re:MS Kills its Killer App?! by n-baxley (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:57AM
  • by rediguana (104664) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:40AM (#296491)

    Ummm, did anyone consider that perhaps MSFT may cut off direct hardware access thereby not allowing any rippers direct access to the CDROM drive. Perhaps not possible with 9x, but it would be with an NT kernel. After all, why does the end user need raw access to the CDROM?

    You would then be forced to go through an API to access a CD. The API itself will do the encoding and then pass on the result. The API would only support those codecs that MSFT allows to be plugged into the architecture. No MP3, no OGG.

    This would fit in very nicely with the plans to have end-to-end encryption in all media devices. It would probably be enough to stop the average end user.

    Of course it may be possible to hack, but I wouldn't want to be doing that in MSFT's house of cards. I'm sure they could set it up so that your system becomes very unstable if you install a hacked API. Oh wait, perhaps they are already doing that ... :)

  • Re:Pay more, get less... by skiy (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @11:03AM
  • WE all know... by jgerman (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:15AM
  • Limiting features? by aralin (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:04AM
  • Don't count on it.. by Sir_Winston (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:54PM
  • How will it end? by CyKo (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:10AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by Contact (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:14AM
  • by Contact (109819) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:06AM (#296498)
    I'd love to know how this is going to be accomplished. Prevent Windows Media Player from playing mp3s / recording over a certain bitrate? Sure. Prevent another mp3 player from doing this? How, exactly?

    All an mp3 ripper does is convert one set of data (uncompressed audio) to another kind of data (compressed audio). I can't see how they can detect this.

    The answer is that Microsoft are saying that they'll limit the quality of recordings made using the built in software, not those made on Windows XP. Use something else to encode / your mp3s, and you're fine.

    I'd mention the fact that this story could have been written more carefully, but that's getting cliched. ;)

  • Re:How are they going to do this? by superpeach (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:09AM
  • This just pushes developers to move a bit faster.. by _bug_ (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:57AM
  • Re:OpenDivx is not open by _bug_ (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:07AM
  • Misleading (Score:3)

    by game-theory (114612) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:14AM (#296502)
    The article states you will not be able to use the *built in Microsoft Utility* to record higher than 56k. When was the last time you used any of MS's built in utilities past dialup connection and solitaire?

    They mention many third party apps don't seem to work properly on the current betas/RC's. Again, I expect this to be remedied once XP hits the shelves and a little bit of time passes.

    I think the article is right in that many mainstream users *don't* care which format or utility they use, but I don't think its mainstream users who are going to be ripping/encoding CD's.

    So, basically this article says Microsoft will, in their own applications, favor their own format over a third party format. Wow, I know that surprises the hell out of *me*.
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by Tarpan (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • No biggie by andy@petdance.com (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:29AM
  • Re:Rate of Adoption is slowing by Von Rex (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:42AM
  • Re:So ? by Von Rex (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:51AM
  • The DAY this gets out of beta... by Galvatron (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:56AM
  • Who cares? by mpost4 (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @09:18AM
  • by nehril (115874) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:07AM (#296509)
    Microsoft, for example, plans to severely limit the quality of music that can be recorded as an MP3 file using software built into the next version of its personal-computer operating system, Windows XP, according to the report.

    This looks like the software built into XP (Windows Media Player) will suck for ripping MP3s, but will rock for recording Windows Media Format files. This does NOT affect third party programs like MusicMatch, etc. except for the fact that people may not want to buy or download another music program if XP already has one (think I.E. vs Netscape).

    However if people are already used to the MP3 scene and have invested lots of time creating a collection (and buying portable mp3 players) then this tactic may not work as expected. If Microsoft did start messing with third party software then I would expect that antitrust lawyers would have a field day.

  • Re:Nobody will use it. by Xpilot (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:19PM
  • Re:Nice Troll by epukinsk (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:22PM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by malfunct (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:51AM
  • Re:Yeah right by malfunct (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:55AM
  • Re:X-P by SuiteSisterMary (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:38AM
  • Re:they're not by tkrotchko (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:05PM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis by donglekey (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:11AM
  • Re:The toothpaste is out of the tube by LaoK (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:17AM
  • Re:The toothpaste is out of the tube by LaoK (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @05:09AM
  • A couple of thoughts... by Angelwrath (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:46AM
  • irony by paranoic (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:47AM
  • Sniff Sniff....Do you smell that? by Gigs (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:53AM
  • Re:Windows XP Doomed! - Mac & Linux by tz (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:34AM
  • Re:How can they do it? Conjectures within... by DennisZeMenace (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:20AM
  • who cares? by ocipio (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:36AM
  • Re:Terrible Article by daSpaZZ (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:24AM
  • Re:Terrible Article by daSpaZZ (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:25AM
  • Please, Microsoft, Put the Codec Down! by Wintermancer (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:16AM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by x1r0k3wl (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @03:45PM
  • why MDCT? by luke_ (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:00AM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by shren (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:02PM
  • Re:Throwing down the Guantlet by shren (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:08PM
  • Re:I don't agree... by pjrc (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:31PM
  • The problem with modern corporations... by smackdotcom (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:32AM
  • Re:Simple answer.... by Arcanix (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:43AM
  • Re:Simple answer.... by Arcanix (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:45AM
  • Windows XP Doomed! by Shocker69 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:10AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by Shocker69 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:19AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by Shocker69 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:20AM
  • It figures by HerrGlock (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:03AM
  • Isn't this just a butt saving move by quantumek (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:38AM
  • Microsofts intelligence ratio by Corrupt_SYN (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:39AM
  • Interesting Side Note by Laplace (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:51AM
  • Re:Yeah right by Saint Mitchell (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:14AM
  • So? by alleria (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:14AM
  • And the best Windows/DOS tookit is called. . . by kfg (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:35AM
  • Of course not, it's a heavy handed move. . . by kfg (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:38AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by BitchAss (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:26AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by BitchAss (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:00AM
  • XP = eXtra Paraphenila by akiaki007 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:51AM
  • Nobody uses MS tools to create MP3s by Utopia (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:16AM
  • So let me get this straight... by e_n_d_o (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:39AM
  • You guys must've learned it all from MS by gamorck (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:02AM
  • Re:So ? by Kanon (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:13AM
  • Yeah right by Kanon (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:03AM
  • RealJukebox already there by dazedNconfuzed (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:25AM
  • Re:Any ideas on what it's doing? by dazedNconfuzed (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:27AM
  • Re:Good news, bad news by Decimal (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:05AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by AntiNorm (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:55AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by Twisted Mind (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:08AM
  • Re:So ? by Twisted Mind (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:10AM
  • Microsoft's own file formats... by mmaddox (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:19AM
  • *sigh* by DigitalSorceress (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:18AM
  • Time for Vorbis? by TellarHK (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:14AM
  • And all this time.... by TheLocustNMI (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:18AM
  • Re:Windows XP Doomed! by The Dark (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:06AM
  • Windows is not as ubiquitous as they think... by diabolus_in_america (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:50AM
  • Re:Ahhh, but what they don't know is... by PinkFloyd (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:58AM
  • Isn't this.. by PinkFloyd (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:07AM
  • Re:They'd better be getting paid a LOT by peccary (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:26PM
  • by peccary (161168) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:07AM (#296570)
    How does this make money for Microsoft? I'm not a direct shareholder anymore, but if I were, I would definitely want to hear from the honchos an answer as to why they are weakening their monopoly to fight somone else's war.
  • Re:Shooting themselves in the foot by AndyChrist (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:16AM
  • This will effect who exactly??? by mallie_mcg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • Re:i hate ms by ReidMaynard (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:18AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by MsGeek (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:24AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by Sam_Spade (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:39AM
  • Sensationalism for nerds. Stuff that's overblown. by jargoone (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:08AM
  • Windows Media Player vs XMMS by GodSpiral (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:36AM
  • I dont think so by fohat (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by Fat Rat Bastard (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:35AM
  • by Fat Rat Bastard (170520) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:14AM (#296580) Homepage
    ...using the built in software

    The WSJ article also mentioned how WinXP happens to "break" existing encoders as well (IIRC it's the tweaks to NTFS that accomplished that) so there is *some* creedence to the "Microsoft is trying to squash MP3 with WinXP" angle.

    If you don't have anything nice to say, say it often.

  • Only from the Mind of Microsoft by jester-tx (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:33AM
  • Re:*Nix partition... by jester-tx (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:46AM
  • So what? by volume (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:24AM
  • Re:This is probably a good thing. by ProfBooty (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:17AM
  • Re:Classic Slashdot Lammer by yoshi_mon (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:39AM
  • Who made Microsoft GOD?! by Pu22L3R (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:17AM
  • Re:Yeah right by Bluesee (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:27PM
  • Re:i hate ms by Mojojojo Monkey Inc. (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:11PM
  • Classic Slashdot Lie by VividU (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:01AM
  • Re:Classic Slashdot Lammer - yes you are. by VividU (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:17AM
  • Re:The Way it Has To Be by Sinjun (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:19AM
  • Re:Nice Troll by sydb (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @12:32PM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by sydb (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @12:34PM
  • Re:This is probably not what you think. by sydb (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:04PM
  • Meanwhile.... by RobertAG (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • Re:Meanwhile.... by RobertAG (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:01AM
  • Re:Meanwhile.... by RobertAG (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:10AM
  • Re:Or better The consumer is goint to eat Elsewher by Gonarat (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:21AM
  • No change really... by flip-flop (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:33AM
  • Hop In Bed by SomeOtherGuy (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:47AM
  • Re:WMA Better and samller? by SomeOtherGuy (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:51AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis! by JCCyC (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:39PM
  • Re:Hm. by Suppafly (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:03AM
  • the Hardware Spec by Alien54 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:15AM
  • Re:the Hardware Spec by Alien54 (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:44AM
  • 5 months and counting... by thechink (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:24PM
  • Re:they're not by jmu1 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:21AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis by jmu1 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:28AM
  • Re:In beta 2, here's a key you'll be interested in by jmu1 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:34AM
  • Re:cracked in 5 seconds by jmu1 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:40AM
  • Problem solved by haplo21112 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:04AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by haplo21112 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:18AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by haplo21112 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:22AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by haplo21112 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:24AM
  • Re:Problem solved by haplo21112 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:20AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by haplo21112 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:20PM
  • Re:Problem solved by haplo21112 (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @04:34AM
  • Re:Not even that. by aanantha (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @12:46PM
  • people don't always use what's given by mbourgon (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:29AM
  • MS General Protection Default by SigmoidCurve (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:04AM
  • Calm down and learn how to read by WildBeast (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:40AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by Nullsmack (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:10AM
  • Re:I don't agree... by dstone (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:54AM
  • EAT THIS FARBER by zencoder (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:19AM
  • Re:I hate M$ as much as the next Slashdotter... by Phokus (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:05AM
  • Re:In beta 2, here's a key you'll be interested in by Phokus (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:15AM
  • Re:So ? by ichimunki (Score:2) Friday April 13 2001, @06:31AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by sulli (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:10AM
  • WMA strategy by sulli (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:10AM
  • Re:Nobody will use it. by sulli (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:47AM
  • by sulli (195030) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:14AM (#296631) Journal
    Upon further reading and reflection, it seems to me that MS would be collossally stupid to push this. MP3 is a huge "killer app" for PCs today - it's one of the few things pushing users to upgrade their PCs and internet connections. Actively making this experience less useful would seem to further reduce sales at a time that people seem less and less interested in upgrading.

    If I had MS stock, I'd sell it now.

  • by sulli (195030) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:09AM (#296632) Journal
    Nobody will use this garbage!

    Read the WSJ article, emphasis and comments added:

    Under Microsoft's new restrictions -- which prevent its built-in software from recording MP3 files at fidelity rates higher than 56 kilobits per second -- MP3 music "sounds like somebody in a phone booth underwater," says P.J. McNealy, an analyst who researches Internet audio issues for Gartner Inc. in Stamford, Conn.

    (Existing versions of Microsoft's audio software don't allow consumers to record music as MP3 files of any quality.)

    [And so nobody uses them!]

    The new restrictions in Windows XP won't prevent other vendors' software applications from recording MP3 music at a higher fidelity, but early testers of beta versions of Windows XP already complain that the most popular MP3 recording applications -- which compete with Microsoft's format -- don't seem to function properly

    [Maybe because MS is using its typical anticompetitive dirty tricks?]

    apparently because of changes Microsoft made to how data are written on CD-ROMs under Windows XP. Microsoft says that while other software vendors' products may not be "optimized" to run with Windows XP, those products should run acceptably with the operating system.

    Whoever at MS thinks Joe User will stick to 56kbp is smoking crack. Everyone will simply use Winamp or one of the hundreds of other MP3 tools. If MS wants to make sure nobody uses its software, this is a great way to do it!

    (Compare Apple, whose excellent iTunes [apple.com] is user-friendly and MP3 only.)

  • DirectSound by core10k (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:20AM
  • it'll only affect windows users anyway by kludge99 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:36AM
  • Re:Simple answer.... by grammar nazi (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:09PM
  • by grammar nazi (197303) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:15AM (#296636) Journal
    Under Microsoft's new restrictions -- which prevent its built-in software from recording MP3 files at fidelity rates higher than 56 kilobits per second -- MP3 music "sounds like somebody in a phone booth underwater," says P.J. McNealy, an analyst who researches Internet audio issues for Gartner Inc. in Stamford, Conn. (Existing versions of Microsoft's audio software don't allow consumers to record music as MP3 files of any quality.)
    I guess it doesn't count as using market share in one area as leverage to gain market share in the other area. Since the Fraunhofer Institut is not a large corporation and it isn't a US National organization, I'd say that it would have little chance in hell of fighting MS in court. MS could say that the 'German company is un-american and trying to stifle american innovation'.

    If Fraunhofer were a US National company, then I'm sure that the anti-trust laws would prevent this type of behavior. Especially if MS somehow disabled or crippled the ability of other MP3 encoders to work under XP.

  • It's a consumer driven market.. not vice versa. by MrJerryNormandinSir (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:32AM
  • Re:You didn't read the articles did you by java_sucks (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:03AM
  • Re:You didn't read the articles did you by java_sucks (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:37AM
  • Evevn for 3rd parties? How? by jchristopher (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:41AM
  • Re:Yeah right by jchristopher (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:51AM
  • Re:RealJukebox already there by really? (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:26AM
  • Re:RealAudio / Jukebox already does limit mp3s. by really? (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:29AM
  • coming soon! by AgentGray (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:50AM
  • The obvious solution... by mblase (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:44AM
  • BeOS by Jaysyn (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:59AM
  • Re:i hate ms by Jaysyn (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:03AM
  • Re:They'd better be getting paid a LOT by Jaysyn (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:10AM
  • Re:XP = eXtra Paraphenila by Jaysyn (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @02:21PM
  • Re:Depends what you mean by "open" by Jaysyn (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @09:05AM
  • more info at.. by myspys (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:30AM
  • Re:Hm. by micromoog (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:24AM
  • Hm. (Score:5)

    by micromoog (206608) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:16AM (#296653)
    The Reuters article seems to blow things out of proportion a bit. Here is an article from C|NET [cnet.com] explaining the technical details of the new Windows Media Player copy protection scheme . . . it's pretty scary, but doesn't affect MP3's at all.

    The only new information in this Reuter's article is that the audio recorder built in to XP will only allow the recording of low-quality MP3s. You can still use whatever you want to rip your CDs.

    True, Microsoft is trying to guide users away from the MP3 format, which is despicable, but this isn't some heavy-handed move to ban MP3s from XP altogether.

    By the way, here's another story from StreamingMedia.com [streamingmedia.com] that reports things very differently . . . according to this one, Microsoft has not yet decided (as of March 28) whether to include MP3 encoding abilities in Media Player.

  • Re:They'll limit what can be *recorded* by pcidevel (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:55AM
  • Re:They'll limit what can be *recorded* by pcidevel (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:55AM
  • Re:adoption by the masses by LuckyLuke58 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:33PM
  • This is the MS modus operandi, and its "good"... by magores (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:42AM
  • How is this so unusual? by 13Echo (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:30AM
  • Interesting by Placido (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:14AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by chainxor (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:47AM
  • Re:i hate ms by chainxor (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:58AM
  • Re:Rate of Adoption is slowing by chainxor (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:05AM
  • Re:Who's trying to avoid paying for what they use? by White Roses (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:07AM
  • Re:Rate of Adoption is slowing by m2t (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:15AM
  • This *is* a worry (Score:3)

    by Mr_Silver (213637) on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:28AM (#296665)
    Too many people are missing the point here. Whatever Microsoft does invariably becomes the de facto standard whether it is or it isn't. Why do you think that its seen as a major problem if Windows doesn't support some sort of standard? They've already said they won't support Bluetooth in the immediate future. This is bad for bluetooth because suddenly the enormous number of people who use Windows won't be using that. Sure it'll come in a later release, but what if it didn't?

    Putting crappy encoding rates into Windows is a bad thing. It'll also probably work. Why? Because most users don't download alternatives. Whats the most used telnet client in the world? Windows Telnet. Its crap. Whats the most used web browser? Internet Explorer. It used to be crap. Why? Because they were in with the windows package from the beginning.

    I remember when IE sucked, but people still used it over Netscape because downloading and installing Netscape was a hassle. People didn't want to do it. People didn't know they could do it.

    Its all very well running around and saying "Well I'll just download a better program". Great, but the majority of people won't. They'll use what they have and if they are gently persuaded to use something else then they will.

    So yes, this is going to be a problem. The savvy people will download and use something else. Those that aren't so savvy (of which there are a hell of a lot more) will use what they are given.

    If what they are given encourages them to use something else that gives a better result, then they'll do that.

    --

  • Re:i hate ms by Beatlebum (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:01PM
  • Re:cracked in 5 seconds by m2e (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:41AM
  • OpenDivx is not open by Cardhore (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:08AM
  • This really will not be a problem at all by Cardhore (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:22AM
  • Oh go fsck yourself. by Bender Unit 22 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:58AM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by Cyclone66 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:50AM
  • Re:That's all fine and dandy, but ..... by Cyclone66 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:04AM
  • Re:Nobody will use it. by Cyclone66 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:26AM
  • Re:WMA strategy by Cyclone66 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:31AM
  • Re:Sit 'n Spin by update() (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:44AM
  • by update() (217397) on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:58AM (#296676) Homepage
    Here's the crucial quote:

    Under Microsoft's new restrictions -- which prevent its built-in software from recording MP3 files at fidelity rates higher than 56 kilobits per second -- MP3 music "sounds like somebody in a phone booth underwater," says P.J. McNealy, an analyst who researches Internet audio issues for Gartner Inc. in Stamford, Conn. (Existing versions of Microsoft's audio software don't allow consumers to record music as MP3 files of any quality.)

    Actually, a less Slashdot-ish spin on this might be "Microsoft to add support for MP3 encoding to Windows XP". (Of course, then Taco could weigh in with an article on how that is uncompetitive bundling and the DOJ should step in to save LAME.)

    Unsettling MOTD at my ISP.

  • Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by Hairy_Potter (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:00AM
  • Embrace, Extend, Extinguish by Linux2Mars (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:25AM
  • So ? by mr.nicholas (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:03AM
  • Any ideas on what it's doing? by j_snare (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:07AM
  • Re:Any ideas on what it's doing? by j_snare (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:59AM
  • Re:Any ideas on what it's doing? by j_snare (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:08AM
  • Re:MS Kills its Killer App?! by j_snare (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:19AM
  • Ogg Vorbis by TJPile (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:01AM
  • JUST PLAIN WRONG by dprior (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:41AM
  • Re:Issue is Overblown by Darth RadaR (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:02AM
  • Re:Would you buy a car from M$? by Darth RadaR (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:03AM
  • Would you buy a car from M$? by Darth RadaR (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:13AM
  • No MP3, use proprietary instead? by Arethan (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:25AM
  • Re:Nice Troll by Auckerman (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @12:26PM
  • Re:Nice Troll (Score:3)

    by Auckerman (223266) on Thursday April 12 2001, @11:59AM (#296691)
    "Widen your definition to everyone in the market and not just MS and the consumers. The content providers want this protection"

    So what you are saying is: If the company that controls 90% of the desktop computers wants to team up with the RIAA and make it impossible to copy songs the the comsumer buys, thereby making it impossible in the future to buy new albums that can't be copied for legimate fair uses, thats okay cause its "market forces".

    Hogwash, utter hogwash. Market forces are about the consumer. That is the whole point of a free economy. That is why monolopies should NOT exist. When we allow one company to control 90% of home computers, it thinks bullshit like this is okay, and consumers just have to eat that dog food if they want to buy music (which eventually, they will if this goes unchecked). I'm sorry. I don't like monolopies. I especially don't like monolopies destroying fair-use in concert with record companies.

  • by Auckerman (223266) on Thursday April 12 2001, @06:14AM (#296692)
    Not everyone uses Windows. I know its hard to beleive. In fact some of us have NEVER used Windows for anything other than checking e-mail in a public library. Your nice, small, perfectly sounding *.wma files are totally useless to me for the following reasons.

    1. They don't work in MacOS X

    2. They don't work in BeOS (x86)

    3. They obviously encode very slowly ("PIII/700 laptop about 3x real time", geesh kinda slow, my 266 encodes mp3s (160) at 2.5X).

    4. What happens when someone cracks the "copy protection" in the WMA format? Is MS gonna change it without regard to compatibility?

    5. Even if I could use those files (meaning had Windows), I couldn't share them with anyone in my family, much less listen to them on any portable player.

    6. Last but not least, from what I have seen of WMP (as limited as that is) in WinME, it blows nutz UI wise, is slow on anything other than a 400P2, and wastes LOTS of valueable screen space by default.

  • Nice Troll (Score:5)

    by Auckerman (223266) on Thursday April 12 2001, @08:23AM (#296693)
    Uhh, I'm trying not to be a troll but who cares if you can't use a certain format?

    You are a troll, but thats okay. Trolling can be a fun experience. Let me give it a try. ;)

    "I can't enjoy certain anime because I don't read nor understand Japanese.

    You don't have a right to it.

    Nor did I say I did. Don't read into a statement what is not there, makes you look like a reactionary fool.

    "You post sounds like 'I want it all now! And I blame MS for it and not market forces or technology'."

    "Market forces", I damn near cracked a rib reading this. Do you honestly think consumers WANT copy protections? Do you honestly think consumers want old formats to be "updated" as often as possible so people with new computers have more trouble sending files to people with older computers? You sound like the type of person who would say IE is more popular than Netscape because it is "better' (which, btw, runs totally against what MS planners thought). I really just don't understand how people can honest believe MS is where it is at because it is the "best". I really don't understand what "market forces" are at play other than "monolopistic bundling" when MS uses its ownership of Windows to try to kill a file format. People use what came with Windows. Most don't trust or even understand downloading enough to seek alternate players.

    The ONLY reason MS wants to add copy protection to Windows is so they can get part of the theoritcal money people will pay to download music. The software industry has gone unchecked for too long. Most of the industry is consumer unfriendly, writes buggy code, and is trying to redifine what fair use is. I don't want to tell my children about the good ole days when we were actually able to buy music in a unencrypted form, make a copy for the car, a copy for the office, and loan it to friends to listen to. But, at this rate I will, because everything will be "encrypted" (even if its only ROT 26), the DCMA will stop people from breaking that encryption even if they want to merely want to play their files in their car. Not only that, if in the highly likely event that WindowsXPv12 (2010 release,build 5million) dies and you have to reinstall, your computer might suddenly think all those files you have backed up are pirated and refuse to use them (cause Windows is fucking STUPID and requires a FORMAT to reinstall). If the OS can identify your computer uniquely and .NET plays out, every time you visit goatse.cx, MS knows.

    Sounds like a shitty idea, if you ask me. I'll stick to formats that don't have any level of prevention in them. XP might look harmless now, but don't think this is nothing more than a baby step towards destroying fair use.

  • Thanks Microsoft by Ford Fulkerson (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:21AM
  • How? by mike260 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:15AM
  • Re:You didn't read the articles did you by slakr67 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:31AM
  • I just want to thank Microsoft..... by linuxrunner (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:34AM
  • Re:Meanwhile.... by quantum bit (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:57AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis (needs a new name) by namespan (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:35AM
  • Re:Market Control by Soruk (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:56AM
  • Re:Market Control by Soruk (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:46AM
  • So let me get this straight... by imadork (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:07AM
  • Re:i hate ms by stevenbee (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:59AM
  • Features by goodhell (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @02:57PM
  • C'mon Guys by spongebob (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:36AM
  • Didn't the Halloween Docs predict this? by wrinkledshirt (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:40AM
  • Already Done by jonsuen (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:55AM
  • Falling By the Wayside by virg_mattes (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @07:40AM
  • by virg_mattes (230616) on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:30AM (#296709)
    > Relavent quote: The new restrictions in Windows
    > XP won't prevent other vendors' software
    > applications from recording MP3 music at a
    > higher fidelity.


    Well, another relevant quote:

    > The new restrictions in Windows XP won't prevent
    > other vendors' software applications from recording
    > MP3 music at a higher fidelity, but early testers
    > of beta versions of Windows XP already complain that the
    > most popular MP3 recording applications -- which compete
    > with Microsoft's format -- don't seem to function
    > properly, apparently because of changes Microsoft
    > made to how data are written on CD-ROMs under Windows XP.


    Telling, no?

    Virg
  • This is probably a good thing. by sheetsda (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:26AM
  • Huh? by extenz (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:50PM
  • Re:XP = Windows with Big Brother expansion pack by acceleriter (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:09AM
  • Proprietary format? by Oshuma.Shiroki (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:02PM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by BravoZuluM (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:56AM
  • who are the police? by benthayer1 (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:22AM
  • Not me by Kasreyn (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:59AM
  • This is the way Microsoft ends... by Kasreyn (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:06AM
  • Take a rest? by Kasreyn (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:13AM
  • Here's what: by Kasreyn (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:15AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by nanoakron (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:47AM
  • Netscape Incident again? by today97 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @02:45PM
  • Re:Nobody will use it. by necrognome (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:27AM
  • by big_groo (237634) <groovis&gmail,com> on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:09AM (#296723) Homepage
    Uh...anyone heard of this [vorbis.com] little standard for audio?

    I must say, I'm not surprised. Not at all. USB 2, MP3...what's next? Hard drives?

    Mr. Gates: "Well, people will just have to learn to live without HD support in Windows 2010. Why don't they use .NET? All their data will be protected from loss, corruption and theft - Microsoft servers are very secure and reliable. Who doesn't have broadband access these days?"

    *chill running down spine*
  • This is stupid! by AlgUSF (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:11AM
  • I find your lack of faith disturbing... by Your Login Here (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:09PM
  • Implications for Linux users by Orbix (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:36AM
  • Welcome to the end of MS Windows by Vajsvarana (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:16AM
  • I think the frog in the pot analogy applies here by shizzu (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:09AM
  • So all they did was cripple windows media player? by gte910h (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:02AM
  • Leverage OS to grow WMA market & other evil deeds by gdyas (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:11AM
  • what does XP stand for!! HERE'S WHAT by gbd (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:14AM
  • Re:i hate ms by LordArathres (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:43AM
  • Re:i hate ms by LordArathres (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:20AM
  • Re:i hate ms by LordArathres (Score:1) Saturday April 14 2001, @03:55AM
  • Re:i hate ms (Score:4)

    by LordArathres (244483) on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:25AM (#296735) Homepage
    Absolutley. Windows XP is going to be an even bigger flop than 2000 was. Napster had some 70 Million plus users. The fact that these people had at least the know how to and understanding of MP3 files to realize how cool they are. Who is MS targetting with XP? Servers...No. Regular users who at least have a clue...No. Power users...No. The only people left are those who dont know a lot about computers and are just getting into them. I guess. But this group gets smaller and smaller daily. Soon, MS wont have anyone left to buy their OS's. I mean Gamers dont use ME, they use 98SE which came out more than 2 years ago. Linux and the BSD's are gaining the server market, and the power user market.

    The best thing about computers is the freedom to do anything you please with them. Building copyrights into the OS will quickly make people turn to something else. Microsoft's days are being quickly numbered.

    Arathres


    I love my iBook. I use it to run Linux!
  • Whoo-hoo! This is a GOOD thing! by shyster (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:24AM
  • by ryanvm (247662) on Thursday April 12 2001, @05:20AM (#296737)
    The WSJ article also mentioned how WinXP happens to "break" existing encoders as well (IIRC it's the tweaks to NTFS that accomplished that) so there is *some* creedence to the "Microsoft is trying to squash MP3 with WinXP" angle.

    That's pure bullshit. XP could possibly break rippers because there are fairly low-level system calls being used, but the notion that it breaks encoders is ridiculous. NTFS tweaks wouldn't harm an encoder because they use standard file writing system calls. Encoders read a file, work some data manipulation, and write the results. To break any part of the reading or writing process would break a lot of software.

    I'd wager that XP breaks the current generation of rippers and the tech "authorities" at WSJ just got a little confused.

  • Re:RealAudio / Jukebox already does limit mp3s. by rixster (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:28AM
  • MP3 gets better by Classic Ted (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:55AM
  • Blind Anti-Microsoft Spin by spideyct (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:01AM
  • Re:Nice Troll by freek_daddy (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @12:47PM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by Rosonowski (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:54AM
  • Burning out by Firewheels (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:30AM
  • oh so what by Alistair Graham (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:28AM
  • Re:they're not by panzie (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:45AM
  • a great way! by kbeast (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @11:20AM
  • Market Control (Score:3)

    by jeff13 (255285) on Thursday April 12 2001, @04:04AM (#296747) Homepage

    That's right, only giant coporations are allowed to distribute culture.

    Back off Napster, or Billy Gates will eat your children.
    ______
    jeff13
  • No more mp3's by webmanwheelz (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:36AM
  • ok by zealousness (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:13AM
  • Insidious plan by ocbwilg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:40AM
  • Re:They'd better be getting paid a LOT by ocbwilg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:45AM
  • Re:"The consumer is going to eat what he's given." by ocbwilg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:59AM
  • Re:Meanwhile.... by ocbwilg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:04AM
  • Re:MS Kills its Killer App?! by ocbwilg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:15AM
  • Re:Interesting by ocbwilg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:27AM
  • Re:They'd better be getting paid a LOT by ocbwilg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:24AM
  • Re:Meanwhile.... by ocbwilg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:31AM
  • Re:They'd better be getting paid a LOT by ocbwilg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:34PM
  • Who uses media player anyway?? by Xcom (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:53AM
  • 56kbps limit by zerofoo (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:56AM
  • Windows XP is the anti-user! by smart.id (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:54AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by zachdms (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:35AM
  • Re:Sit 'n Spin by zachdms (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:40AM
  • Re:registry leaves content controls in MS hands by zachdms (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:52AM
  • Re:They'll limit what can be *recorded* by zachdms (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:40AM
  • Re:They'll limit what can be *recorded* by zachdms (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @01:46PM
  • Re:Simple answer.... by zachdms (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @02:56PM
  • Re:Good news, bad news by zachdms (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @03:01PM
  • Re:Can you set it higher than 128? by zachdms (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @03:09PM
  • Re:This just pushes developers to move a bit faste by zachdms (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @03:14PM
  • This is why... by Mister Black (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:00AM
  • M$, Real and the Death of the MP3 by djrosen (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:27AM
  • by nanojath (265940) on Thursday April 12 2001, @06:15AM (#296773) Homepage Journal
    I don't think there's been more obvious and open challenge to the Open Source community. MP3 should disappear; it's proprietary. But if Microsoft is allowed to control the standard format for digital audio playback then that's it: the world of commercial music is going to end up looking like the world of commercial software and that's an ugly, ugly picture. Two words: Fair Use. Do you know what this means? Of course, but for those who just fell off the truck, you have a legal, constitutionally guarenteed, Supreme-Court approved right to make copies of copyrighted materials YOU ALREADY OWN for personal use. If I own the CD I have the right to tape it, burn it to a new CD, to rip it to my hard drive, to make MP3s from that, all for my personal convenience. I have the right to stream it on the intertnet so I can listen to it at work. I can't legally trade, distribute or sell it. But I can use that copyrighted information any way I want to, once I buy an original. The publishing community doesn't have the political juice to overturn fair use so they're joining forced with M$ to simply make it technologically impossible. The big lie is that we need any more laws due to the digital revolution. Napster proves that: the average consumer will always need some sort of easy, accessible method to get their product. As soon as any illegal distribution network becomes big enough to make a dent in the publishing/recording industry's massive coffers, they'll get shut down. Piracy and bootlegs will always exist: fighting those who illegally (and despicably, from my point of view as a writer and songwriter) make personal profit from piracy is part of maintaining intellectual property laws. What is really the issue is the desire of the publishing/recording industry to change the paradigm from a pay for rights (you buy copyrighted material and receive all attendant fair use rights - essentially unlimited personal playback rights) to a pay to play model where you end up paying EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU LISTEN/READ/VIEW. It's a shaft job on the consumer. A total greed power play. And this is the beginning. I've said it once, twice, I'll say it a thousand times if I have to: There is only one way out and that is by artists cooperating with the open source community to forge a new model of distribution. We don't NEED the publishing/recording industry any more: If you have what it takes you will get 10X as rich selling yourself even if you take no steps to avoid piracy. Yeah, Yeah, I'm crazy (and long winded too). Interested? Get in on the ground floor - write at the e-mail above or to PO 3171 Minneapolis MN 55403 and find out what the REAL score is.
  • Re:It's here. Secure Audio Path, folks. by XeonTux (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:46PM
  • Re:Not that bad by dachshund (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:37AM
  • It's called Secure Channel, I believe by dachshund (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:41AM
  • Re:Nobody will use it. by dachshund (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:28AM
  • Re:Who's trying to avoid paying for what they use? by Zuchinis (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:34PM
  • Re:It's a WIN-WIN situation for Microsoft by Zuchinis (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:56PM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by StaticMagick (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:42AM
  • Re:This is why monopoly is dangerous by doppleganger871 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:12AM
  • Re:More bad reporting... by doppleganger871 (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:06AM
  • Re:Not even that. by Rogerborg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:41AM
  • Re:Not concerned in the least. by Rogerborg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:46AM
  • Re:the Hardware Spec by Rogerborg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:54AM
  • Re:beginning-of-the-end for who? by Rogerborg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:10AM
  • Re:Are you serious? by Rogerborg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:14AM
  • Re:Would you buy a car from M$? by Rogerborg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:35AM
  • Re:Another thing i dont have to worry about by Rogerborg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:45AM
  • Re:i hate ms by Rogerborg (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:51AM
  • Re:This is why monopoly is dangerous by Rogerborg (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:31AM
  • Re:they're not (Score:3)

    by Rogerborg (306625) on Thursday April 12 2001, @06:18AM (#296792) Homepage

    ripping with WMP8 at 56k I can get twice the music in my pocket and it sounds better

    Which will be a great comfort when in six months you update, hit rip, and run into the popup saying "Microsoft regrets that due to persisent abuse of fair use laws by evil commie child molesting pirates, the copyright owner of this track has instructed us to levy a token licensing charge on this copy. Searching Microsoft Passport for your credit card number. Found. Purchased. Click OK to continue, or Cancel to confirm that you are a child molesting communist thief (no refunds)."

    Just because it costs nothing doesn't mean you won't have to pay.

  • This is different than IE vs Netscape. by abumarie (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:54AM
  • It's a WIN-WIN situation for Microsoft by MSBob (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:05AM
  • Keep them coming by feder (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:56AM
  • X-P by Bobb Sledd (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:14AM
  • What is the big deal? by Ayende Rahien (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @01:30PM
  • MP3's are "Unprotected" by VolareMan (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:20AM
  • Re:Dangit, MS is really cutting their throats by wanton (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:30AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis by WolfDeusEx (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:41AM
  • "The consumer is going to eat what he's given." by kanayo (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:10AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis by billmoss (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:10AM
  • Re:Good news, bad news by Cow4263 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:20AM
  • Re:Simple answer.... by genderbender (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @10:18AM
  • Re:cracked in 5 seconds by Eryq (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:56AM
  • MS is not dying by PicassoJones (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:00PM
  • Re:Good news, bad news by Balinares (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:09AM
  • Well that's just beautiful ! by Claric (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:25AM
  • what about... by vena (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:08PM
  • Pay more, get less... by squonk3125 (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:59AM
  • Meda sounds. by Liquid-Gecka (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:03AM
  • FYI, MS will certify drivers by 1 inch punch (Score:1) Friday April 13 2001, @01:20AM
  • Ahhh, but what they don't know is... by insertnamehere (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:28AM
  • Ummm, how? by Nurgster (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:05AM
  • Re:i hate ms by Paul Bentham (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:15AM
  • RE: How Can Microsoft Kill It? by Regolith (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:20AM
  • Good news, bad news by Spamalamadingdong (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:49AM
  • You should be scared by Spamalamadingdong (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:16AM
  • We should think of it as a blessing... by Tricolor Paulista (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:10AM
  • MP3 -- WMA by SA3Steve (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:10AM
  • Where can I get Ogg Vorbis? Here!! by gd23ka (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @06:55AM
  • Re:This is probably not what you think. by clontzman (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:32AM
  • Er... you missed something... by Guppy06 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:26AM
  • Re:Classic Slashdot Lammer by Sparks23 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:13AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by High Jumbllama (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:04AM
  • Just another clueless reporter by RockyJSquirel (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @07:25PM
  • Re:Simple answer.... by Magumbo (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:20AM
  • Re:Nobody will use it. by Publicus (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:25AM
  • Re:i hate ms by Tech187 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:13AM
  • Re:Good news, bad news by Tech187 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:32AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by Tech187 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:42AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by Tech187 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:58AM
  • Re:Whats wrong with paying? by Tech187 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:05AM
  • Re:How are they going to do this? by Tech187 (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:18AM
  • Re:Ogg Vorbis by The Gentleman AC (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:41AM
  • I knew my ex wife was Evil... by kmellis (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:48AM
  • i hate ms by phatmax2k (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:01AM
  • Re:So let me get this straight... by Sith4Lord2Maul (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:27AM
  • How'bout VQF? by therealsludge (Score:2) Thursday April 12 2001, @04:58AM
  • Issue is Overblown by glShemp (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @05:31AM
  • Digital Rights by whitebitch (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:11AM
  • Re:Problem solved by VeryUniqueName (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:06AM
  • Re:You didn't read the articles did you by This is Me (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:31AM
  • Re:Not even that. by Schpyder (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @09:43AM
  • Bypass the argument and solve the distribution by buckdonut (Score:1) Thursday April 12 2001, @08:25PM
  • Rip. Mix. Burn. by starmannj (Score:1) Tuesday April 17 2001, @04:42PM
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