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MS Wants To Outlaw Open Source: "Threatens" the "American Way"

Posted by Hemos on Thu Feb 15, 2001 01:53 PM
from the we-must-not-have-a-mineshaft-gap! dept.
EnderWiggnz was one of the people who wrote to us about some interesting quotes from Jim Allchin, main Windows guy at Microsoft. Essentially he argues that Open Source undermines intellectual property (which is true) but that it also stifles innovation and he "...can't imagine something that could be worse then this for the software business and intellectual-property business." My favorite quote:"I'm an American, I believe in the American Way,'' he said. ''I worry if the government encourages open source, and I don't think we've done enough education of policy makers to understand the threat." Wow. I know - let's blame Canada! That seems a logical next step!
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  • Here is a video of Microsoft celebrating! No shit! by AnonymousCowheard (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @12:47AM
  • Re:wrong way around by Golias (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:53AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by SubtleNuance (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:20AM
  • Re:Funny quote by UberLame (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:20AM
  • by sparkane (145547) on Thursday February 15 2001, @10:54AM (#428790) Homepage

    ..or intellectual property. Not exactly, and maybe not at all.

    Understand that open source, or, to put a finer point on it, GNU and the GPL, is based on the exact principle that others' more proprietary claims are based on: that creators' can say what others may do with their intellectual inventions. Note that open source software is not released into the public domain, where anyone could do anything they want with it, including creating a new version of it and claiming that creation as their intellectual property; there are very important restrictions on the use of GPL'ed intellectual property, of which we're all aware. There is still a license in other words. If you violate that license, in theory, the custodians of the GPL'ed software could sue you in court, just as more proprietary corporations can if you break their licenses.

    Of course the GPL is a million times more humanitarian than Microsoft, and their ilk. But there's a reason RMS called it Copyleft, which is that open source software is still copyrighted, but the conditions of its use and distribution are exactly opposite of those of proprietary software, where rights are not to be distributed with the program.

  • Re:In some ways, it does by marxmarv (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:21AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by _Splat (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:54AM
  • Re:Remind me... by mikefoley (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:21AM
  • Re:Nice flamebait Hemos by CargoCult (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:21AM
  • Re:Funny quote by wfrp01 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:21AM
  • Re:What stage are we at? by biohazard99 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:22AM
  • Re:There's nothing wrong with IP by KjetilK (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @12:54AM
  • Re:There's nothing wrong with IP by PerlGeek (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @12:54AM
  • Re:RMS is an Artiste! by ti_dave (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @12:57AM
  • History repeats itself for those who dont learn it by theMAGE (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:54AM
  • RMS just has mental discipline by RedLaggedTeut (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @12:57AM
  • Re:IP ain't fact, it be fiction by Panaflex (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:06AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by SnatMandu (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:55AM
  • Re:blame linux by erotus (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:09AM
  • In Big Blue we trust by cyber-vandal (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:56AM
  • Is that the same "American Way"... by nickos (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @01:14AM
  • Freedom to Innovate by nologin (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:56AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by rumba (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:56AM
  • Re:This is the deal by Cl1mh4224rd (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:19AM
  • Re:Jim Allchin - Corrected by stungod (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:56AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by dentin (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:22AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by bigwillystylie (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:22AM
  • MS Wants To Outlaw Open Source by spamtrap (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:22AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by ekrout (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:56AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by BD55 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:56AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by NineNine (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:56AM
  • Re:Oldest trick in the book (Or at least close) by plague3106 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:22AM
  • In other news ... by FeltTip (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:23AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by pjrc (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:24AM
  • American Way? by rppp01 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:24AM
  • Re:Jim Allchin by SoftwareJanitor (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:24AM
  • Whats next (Score:4)

    by qwerty823 (126234) <demNO@SPAMchaostech.com> on Thursday February 15 2001, @08:57AM (#428822)
    Next they'll be touting that the Department of Justice threatens the "American Way" (or at least M$'s version of it.)
  • Re:free=bad by connorbd (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:30AM
  • Intellectual Property: Monopoly Capitalism's Whore by tunacanrana (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:32AM
  • *sigh* by srhuston (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @08:57AM
  • Microsoft's Creed by MissKitty (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:36AM
  • Comment Number by fizban (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:36AM
  • Re:Funny quote by Rand Race (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:39AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by f5426 (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @01:23AM
  • Re:That's not fasciasm by marxist (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:41AM
  • A shot in the foot - Simply beautiful by sh4na (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:24AM
  • You can't let THESE guys define it by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:57AM
  • Re:Stifles innovation? by PerlGeek (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:24AM
  • Educational versions don't include support by svanegmond (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:44AM
  • Re:The American Way? by Timid_Monkey (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:25AM
  • Re:The American Way? by SubtleNuance (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:57AM
  • sounds like cold war.... by perler (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:29AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by bthomas80 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:57AM
  • by chipuni (156625) on Thursday February 15 2001, @10:57AM (#428839) Homepage
    You're right. The article doesn't say that Microsoft wants to outlaw open source.

    It just says that Jim Allchin, the Windows operating-system chief believes that freely distributed source:

    • Stifles innovation
    • Destroys intellectual property rights
    • Kills research and development
    • Is the worst thing for the software business

    ...and that legislators need to understand the threat.

    When I put those things together, I get the impression that Microsoft wants to outlaw Open Source. YMMV.

  • Re:In some ways, it does by plague3106 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:32AM
  • Re:Microsoft must be wary of a deal with the devil by PerlGeek (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:33AM
  • Re:Whats next by JWW (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:57AM
  • by Kiasoft (142069) on Thursday February 15 2001, @10:58AM (#428843) Homepage

    Territorial distrust is the key concept here. Microsoft does not know how to assimilate this open source territory into their own shop, because it breaks the very foundation of their ideas, beliefs and business models.

    Unlike humanity, the software world is not bound to the same "physical" territories that have caused man to consume his way into every culture that has come and gone and been assimilated. We have pushed out those that came before us and rebuild when we destroy... the "territories" as they exist in the virtual realm don't obey these rules. When you take money out of the equation and seperate from the world of Microsoft vs xyz corporation, Microsoft was able to dominate by conversion or persuasion or harrasment.

    The OpenSource model breaks this cycle by taking money out of the equation. In effect creating a new territory (although not that new) that has come into a maturity of its own that now provides man with an alternative. Shall he continue flying with MS into a world that will eventually crumble at its own overweight blunders, or will they give a chance to evolution? A chance to experience a new territory?

    Who knows? Only if we allow MS to continue their propoganda will they scare the masses away from exploring new territories, and therein lies the danger of Microsoft.. not in stifling the competition, but in stifling the territories we are allowed to play in.

    thanks for listening... people have been trying to step all in my territory today... sigh.

  • Re:Jim Allchin by f5426 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:34AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by TheCarp (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:24AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by plague3106 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:34AM
  • Re:Not the American Way, the Corporate Way by CaseyB (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:58AM
  • Re:Open Source stifles innovation - is this true ? by cyber-vandal (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:25AM
  • Re:Name one by jd (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:25AM
  • Re:What's next: by hedgefrog (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:58AM
  • Re:What stage are we at? by BillyZ (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:58AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by CyberLife (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:28AM
  • Re:Tell your representatives to promote open sourc by gfxguy (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:28AM
  • Re:Yes! Blame Canada by savaget (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:28AM
  • Re:Microsoft's assault on property ownership by geomon (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:28AM
  • No one expects the Microsoft Inquisition!! by maxmutt (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:28AM
  • Re:Thank God someone is finally talking about this by sheldon (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @06:45AM
  • So sell it then... by Drunken Philosopher (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:47AM
  • Re:free=bad by Kasmir Gandalf (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:50AM
  • Re:Funny quote; their trying to.... by budgenator (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @06:53AM
  • by Aceticon (140883) on Friday February 16 2001, @01:36AM (#428861)
    What you're saying is something like:
    In my city there's a guy which owns a Ferrari. Another one owns a Jaguar. Cars in my city are the best in the world.

    Wrong

    Just because there's a Ferrari and Jaguar in your city doesn't mean all cars are good. All the rest might be "how do they manage to still work", "rusting junk" sort of cars.

    Try "average quality of universities" instead of "top 10".

  • Oo! A man made entirely out of straw! by TheDullBlade (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @01:36AM
  • idiocies by Drakken1080 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:37AM
  • Re:Open Source stifles innovation - is this true ? by Mr. Slippery (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:59AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by plague3106 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:37AM
  • Re:Not the American Way, the Corporate Way by Kvan (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:39AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by joshamania (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @10:59AM
  • Re:Whats next by Tukla (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:40AM
  • "Design" Anybody? by Crotchmaster69 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:40AM
  • Re:Whats next by ccoakley (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:00AM
  • Re:The American Way? by Howie (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @01:42AM
  • Re:IP by twisty (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:00AM
  • What id f they use really dirty tricks ? by linzeal (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:43AM
  • Re:Open Source stifles innovation - is this true ? by rnturn (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:01AM
  • Re:The American Way? by abdulwahid (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:01AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Moofie (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:01AM
  • Free Software by eap (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @06:59AM
  • Re:Tell your representatives to promote open sourc by sheldon (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @06:59AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by LordNimon (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:07AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by sheldon (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @07:08AM
  • Re:Stifles innovation? by Jason Earl (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @07:10AM
  • Re:The American Way? by Howie (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:44AM
  • Re:What's next: by linzeal (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:45AM
  • True - But... by nickos (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:45AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by LordNimon (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:14AM
  • Re:MS is distributing GPL software! by MrBogus (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:14AM
  • Re:supply in *not* infinite by PerlGeek (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:46AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by NineNine (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:01AM
  • Re:Government lobbying worries me... by Danse (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:02AM
  • Re:What's made Microsoft so vocal recently? by bubbha (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:03AM
  • Re:Thing is... by linzeal (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:48AM
  • Re:Slashdot Poll... by linzeal (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @01:56AM
  • Comparison (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 16 2001, @02:01AM (#428893)
    If Microsoft had invented the electronic calculator machine, intead of Texas Instruments, Microsoft would be lobying now to prevent teachers form teaching math/algebra in the basic schools:

    - Teaching math/algebra harms the electronic-calculator industry and causes the loss of many jobs.
    - Doing math/algebra calculations manually is a stone-age thing, because the new calculators will do it for you.
    - Calculators are much more user friendly than paper and pencil.
    - Calcalators and much easier to lern than math/algebra and you don't even have to learn how it works.
    - Although doing calculations manualy is free, an electronica calculator provides a better TCO (Total Cost of Ownership), because you don't have to train people in lerning math/algebra.
  • Ironic by SolaRJetmaN (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:04AM
  • Volunteers by Otto-matic (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:05AM
  • Re:Standard of living by shepd (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @02:01AM
  • They must read RMS (Score:3)

    by TheDullBlade (28998) on Thursday February 15 2001, @11:06AM (#428897)
    He does talk that way.

    [fsf.org]
    Is Microsoft The Great Satan? Apparently they're just one unusually large and nasty demon in the horde of Hell-spawned proprietary developers.

    This guy is a seriously demented nutcase, as are his followers. I've been saying so for years.

    There's a difference between reasonable free software supporters who see advantages in efficiency, education, and security, and Free Software fanatics who see a moral crusade against evil monsters releasing programs without giving away the source code (horrors!).

    Various RMS quotes (gathered from the philosophy page at the FSF):

    "GNU will remove operating system software from the realm of competition. You will not be able to get an edge in this area"
    (Now where would someone see a threat to innovation in such an innocuous remark?)

    "If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they restrict the use of these programs."

    "it will still be possible for them to get paid for programming; just not paid as much as now."

    "All sorts of development can be funded with a Software Tax: Suppose everyone who buys a computer has to pay x percent of the price as a software tax. The government gives this to an agency like the NSF to spend on software development."
    (and he claims not to be a communist!)

    "[in some utopian future where people work 10 hours per week] There will be no need to be able to make a living from programming."
    (there never was a need; any programmer could survive flipping burgers now)

    "The economic argument goes like this: ``I want to get rich (usually described inaccurately as `making a living')...''"

    He honestly seems to support that programmers should be materially impoverished, not enriched, by their rare and highly useful talents. They should do it "for the good of humanity". To Hell with a new computer every year, high-speed internet, and a comfortable home for your family.

    There's every bit as good a reason to argue that people should let any stranger come along and take his car whenever one wants (see how much more use it gets! there's a profit for society!), or farm and give away all the food beyond what they need to survive (how evil to be willing to let it rot if nobody is willing to pay for it!).

    But none of those ideas make sense. People want more money than they need to survive; generally the more the better. People can be selfless in emergencies, but on the whole, they look out for themselves first. Telling people that they shouldn't follow their own self-interest may be met with public applause but will be disregarded in action, assuming that they won't serve themselves is just plain wrong.

    These economically unsound ideals are exactly why the Free Software movement is so often compared to communism: if you go by the FSF propaganda, it is based on the same wrong assumptions about human nature!

    Aside from a few fanatics and students (who make lousy stuff because they're just learning how), people program for some benefit from the final result. Many free software programmers just want the software they're working on. Some want to build up their resumes, others plan to sell documentation, service, or even merchandise. Some hope for donations or sweetheart stock deals.

    The reality is generally quite sensible. We're still working out how to properly reward innovation, and there's still a lot of unsound FSF rhetoric infecting most discussions, but when you look at actions rather than words, progress is occuring toward a reliable system of rewards.

    While I think RMS tells himself he's being self-sacrificing and noble by not "getting rich by cheating his neighbors", I think he's got some ulterior motive. Namely, I think he wants to be a celebrity. He's a ruthless self-promoter through putting his name on everything GNU and FSF then pushing the GNU name (anyone remember LiGNUx?). Like communist revolutionaries, idealistic rhetoric masks private ambition.

    RMS and the FSF are threats to any reasonable economic behavior WRT software, whether free or proprietary. We have to be ready to denounce such lunatics if we don't want to be tarred with the same brush.
    ---
    Karma casino, place your bets!
  • Re:How about.... by LordNimon (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:22AM
  • Well I needed a laugh by terrymr (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:23AM
  • if you bust your ass.... by invenustus (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:24PM
  • Hey... by nnnneedles (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:26PM
  • Don't take this lying down. by akc (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:24AM
  • Re:IP ain't fact, it be fiction by marx (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:26PM
  • Re:Linus is Finnish from Finland by Linux2Mars (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @02:04AM
  • Re:OT: Americanism and such by BD55 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:25AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by linzeal (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @02:04AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by Ereth (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:26AM
  • by debaere (94918) on Friday February 16 2001, @02:10AM (#428908)
    Correct me if I am wrong, but being an relatively outsider to the States (Canada). I thought the American way is to promote freedom of expression, and freedom to do what the hell you want, as long as iot isn't breaking any laws. *shrug* guess not :P

    Regardless, in a country whose First Amendment (AKA Prime Directive) is free speech, how in the sweet name of Zaphod can MS even think of making this statement... its downright insanity.

    Ya know, I used to like Microsoft (in general). I think their Marketing Dept needs a common-sense enima, and most of the products problems are a result of marketroid hype, but now... screw em.


    DOS is dead, and no one cares...
  • It's A Clever Approach, But... by Steve B (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:30PM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by SnatMandu (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:06AM
  • Re:The real threat to the "American Way" .. by msaavedra (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:06AM
  • Re:Microsoft "Innovation" - Whistler's Luna by DrXym (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @02:23AM
  • Re:Not the American Way, the Corporate Way by Arrgh (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:31PM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Aceticon (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @02:30AM
  • Re:The American Way by cyber-vandal (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:07AM
  • Re:Stifles innovation? by JimDabell (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:07AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by theMAGE (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:07AM
  • Re:RIGHT ON! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:07AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by DagSverre (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:07AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by nyet (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:07AM
  • Re:How about.... by LordNimon (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:33AM
  • This reminds me by rgmoore (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:34PM
  • Re:The American Way? by bugg (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:34PM
  • That's nothing. THIS is support :) by e_n_d_o (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:36PM
  • Re:Thank God someone is finally talking about this by demon (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:54AM
  • Who are we? by winse (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:55AM
  • Re:I Think His Points Are Somewhat Valid by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:38PM
  • Re:Microsoft must be wary of a deal with the devil by Blake (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:56AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by kimihia (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:07AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by mizhi (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:08AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Moofie (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:40PM
  • Step Back... by mroshea (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:41PM
  • The 'Intellectual-Property Industry'? by characterZer0 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:08AM
  • Re:microsoft is suck by Evil Grinn (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:08AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by BillyZ (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:09AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by cduffy (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:09AM
  • Re:MS is distributing GPL software! by _Bean_ (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:09AM
  • Since when has slashdot ever claimed no bias? by mizhi (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:10AM
  • Microsoft is hypocritical by VegeBrain (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @07:56AM
  • Re:The American Way? by AndroSyn (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:00AM
  • At least they're consistent... by Corporate Drone (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:02AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Moofie (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:43PM
  • Re:I Think His Points Are Somewhat Valid by spdogg8 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:43PM
  • Re:We're not all American anyway by marx (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:44PM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by LordNimon (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:11AM
  • Re:MS is distributing GPL software! by Schnedt McWhatever (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:45PM
  • Re:Whats next by badbrainsg (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:11AM
  • Re:Funny quote by AndroSyn (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:11AM
  • You all missed the important point. by dbeast (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:13AM
  • Re:Microsofts free software by TypoDaemon (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:47PM
  • Re:you gotta wonder... by Schnedt McWhatever (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:47PM
  • Re:IP ain't fact, it be fiction by interiot (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:47PM
  • Re:new M$ platform, follow-up to .NET by SubtleNuance (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:10AM
  • Re:The real threat to the "American Way" .. by madmancarman (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:48PM
  • Re:Highest Standard of living? by sammy baby (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:10AM
  • Raise your right hand and repeat after me... by Voltaire99 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:49PM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by SnatMandu (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:11AM
  • My opinion by MwtrV (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:12AM
  • Re:The killer app by Danse (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:12AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by DeepDarkSky (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:12AM
  • Re:Government lobbying worries me... by hardburn (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:12AM
  • Re:What's next: by Flounder (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:12AM
  • Re:really? by Felinoid (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2001, @05:21PM
  • Re:You can be dead right. by ummit (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2001, @06:51PM
  • and on, by lamp77 (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2001, @10:47PM
  • addendum by lamp77 (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2001, @10:49PM
  • Re:and on, by Golias (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @12:11AM
  • UNAMERICAN??? by OpenSourceLong (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:15AM
  • Re:addendum by Golias (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @12:16AM
  • Re:HEY FUCKING MODERATORS! read this! by Cl1mh4224rd (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @12:49AM
  • Re:OK... we now have too much open-source by bcaulf (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:16AM
  • Church of MicroSod by gazz (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:50PM
  • Re:Are You People Nuts? by Cl1mh4224rd (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @01:02AM
  • Damn straight! by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:51PM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by LordNimon (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:18AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by ictatha (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:51PM
  • Re:Call this a pre-emptive strike by Schnedt McWhatever (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:52PM
  • Re:Just like "Good Old Germany" by coach-r (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:25AM
  • Re:Stifles innovation? by JimDabell (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @08:32AM
  • Re:Oldest trick in the book (Or at least close) by Voltaire99 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:55PM
  • Unbelievable by Chazmati (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:14AM
  • by RandomPeon (230002) on Thursday February 15 2001, @11:14AM (#428982) Journal
    Tip for y'all: It's time to do something!!!

    1) Start giving money to the EFF, the EPIC, the FSF, et al. very fast.

    2) There are people who are supposed to condemn these kind of statements - they're called Congress. They're supposed to launch investigations into this kind of shit. If nothing else, they're supposed to know that millions of people will be royally pissed off if they vote for anti-Open Source legistlation. Here are all the email addresses for the Senate Tech Committee:

    John McCain john_mccain@mccain.senate.gov

    Ted Stevens http://www.senate.gov/~stevens/webform.htm

    Conrad Burns conrad_burns@burns.senate.gov

    Trent Lott senatorlott@lott.senate.gov

    Kay Hutchinson senator@hutchinson.senate.gov

    Olympia Snowe olympia@snowe.senate.gov

    Same Brownback http://www.senate.gov/~brownback/email.html

    Gordon Smith http://www.senate.gov/~gsmith/webform.htm

    Peter Fitzgerald senator_fitzgerald@fitzgerald.senate.gov

    Frizt Hollings http://www.senate.gov/~hollings/webform.html

    Daniel Inoyue http://www.senate.gov/~inouye/abtform.html

    Jay Rockefeller senator@rockefeller.senate.gov

    John Kerry john_kerry@kerry.senate.gov

    John Breaux http://www.senate.gov/~breaux/webform.html

    Bryon Dorgan http://dorgan.senate.gov/webmail.html

    Ron Wyden http://www.senate.gov/~wyden/mail.htm

    Max Cleland http://cleland.senate.gov/~cleland/webform.html

    Barbara Boxer http://www.senate.gov/~boxer/contact/webform.html

    Jean Carnhan senator_carnahan@carnahan.senate.gov
  • Hi, I'm a turnip by Lurker (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:14AM
  • Re:Microsoft "Innovation" - Whistler's Luna by WildBeast (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:14AM
  • IF by The-Pheon (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:15AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by jguthrie (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:15AM
  • Re:No surprise by esonik (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @11:15AM
  • Re:The idea of free content by Cl1mh4224rd (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @01:10AM
  • Re:Highest Standard of living? by Aceticon (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @03:29AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Aceticon (Score:2) Monday February 19 2001, @03:46AM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by jotaeleemeese (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @06:05AM
  • M$ is threatened by Linux, but won't admit it. by Whatthehellever (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @07:54AM
  • Re:and on, by lamp77 (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @09:46AM
  • open source code is not "commi-code" by leodegan (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:36AM
  • Re:and on, by Golias (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @10:41AM
  • Re:Allchin in the Flesh by theolein (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @11:21AM
  • Re:Whats next by herk (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:39AM
  • boom boom by theolein (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @11:27AM
  • Gimme a break by kennyj449 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:41AM
  • Re:The American Way? by PooF (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @08:42AM
  • Outlaw This by Salieri (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @04:59PM
  • Re:Microsoft must be wary of a deal with the devil by Trepalium (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:47AM
  • Microsoft feels threatend since they suck! by MrJerryNormandinSir (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:48AM
  • Re:What stage are we at? by Jeff DeMaagd (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @08:54AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Chuck Flynn (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @08:55AM
  • Re:how can open source stifle by subgeek (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:00PM
  • Re:Name one by Langdon (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @08:56AM
  • Microsoft's Benediction by slashdogdick (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:00PM
  • Wrong about the Secure Audio Path by yerricde (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:01PM
  • They already are - no honour among thieves! by leonbrooks (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:02PM
  • I live in europe by theolein (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @11:51AM
  • Re:and on, by lamp77 (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @12:03PM
  • Re:and on, by Golias (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @12:08PM
  • Re:The American Way? by alleria (Score:1) Monday February 19 2001, @04:50PM
  • Re:Stifles innovation? by JimDabell (Score:2) Tuesday February 20 2001, @10:20AM
  • Re:Funny quote by Tony-A (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @08:57AM
  • Re:Tell your representatives to promote open sourc by LordNimon (Score:2) Tuesday February 20 2001, @02:01PM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Moofie (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @09:08AM
  • Re:Thank God someone is finally talking about this by sheldon (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @09:10AM
  • Re:American Way? by Schnedt McWhatever (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:04PM
  • Try inverting your idea by NuclearArchaeologist (Score:1) Tuesday February 20 2001, @06:13PM
  • Re:Innovation == making money by ritalin (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @09:12AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by SnatMandu (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @09:15AM
  • Re:Government lobbying worries me... by sheldon (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @09:16AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by SoftwareJanitor (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @09:19AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Glytch (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:07PM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by SnatMandu (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @09:19AM
  • Re:How about.... by bfree (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @09:19AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Jucius Maximus (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:08PM
  • Microsoft Support by CgiJobs (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:12PM
  • Am I wrong? by Brandonr17 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:14PM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by manyoso (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:15PM
  • Re:Government lobbying worries me... by Malcontent (Score:1) Tuesday February 20 2001, @11:02PM
  • Re:Stifles innovation? by Jason Earl (Score:2) Wednesday February 21 2001, @07:50AM
  • Re:Tell your representatives to promote open sourc by mpe (Score:2) Wednesday February 21 2001, @09:50PM
  • Re:Microsoft must be wary of a deal with the devil by Blake (Score:1) Thursday February 22 2001, @09:18AM
  • Re:The American Way by maunleon (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @09:23AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by plague3106 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @09:34AM
  • Re:Jackballs by Graymalkin (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @09:35AM
  • Re:Microsoft is hypocritical by Cl1mh4224rd (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @09:37AM
  • Re:Remind me... by Schnedt McWhatever (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:16PM
  • Re:What stage are we at? by ncc74656 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @09:39AM
  • Re:Jackballs by Graymalkin (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @09:40AM
  • RMS is an Artiste! by FFFish (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:17PM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by plague3106 (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @09:44AM
  • Re:Stifles innovation? by Bastian (Score:2) Friday February 16 2001, @09:44AM
  • Re:Finally beating "The Star Faction" ? by RGRistroph (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:21PM
  • Re:Comment Number by Cl1mh4224rd (Score:1) Friday February 16 2001, @09:45AM
  • Re:Whats next by caffeinated_bunsen (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:23PM
  • Re:IP ain't fact, it be fiction by JWW (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:24PM
  • ..as a desktop by Stu Charlton (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:24PM
  • Re:Jim Allchin by rabtech (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:25PM
  • Re:The American Way? by Jon_S (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:26PM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by cynthetik (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:27PM
  • transforming intellectual property by Stu Charlton (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:28PM
  • Its the Evolution of the way things are done! by hvymetal (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:29PM
  • Enter the strings 'Allchin' and 'fake' into Google by PRR (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:30PM
  • Bottom Line by rabtech (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:31PM
  • WTF by tymellon (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:31PM
  • Re:The American Way? by Jon_S (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:34PM
  • Get it right... by been42 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:34PM
  • Stop the world to turn... by si_brain (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:37PM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by tshak (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:38PM
  • Its the Evolution of the way things are done! by hvymetal (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:40PM
  • The wording of this quote... by Gendou (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:40PM
  • Re:Let's get things straight by Error27 (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:41PM
  • His email addr by BSOD Bitch (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:42PM
  • Re:That's not fasciasm by marxist (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:43PM
  • Re:History repeats itself for those who dont learn by nhavar (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:45PM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by Voltaire99 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:46PM
  • Re:Think Different by ellem (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:47PM
  • Re:The Slashdot Misinformation Machine by frknfrk (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @05:49PM
  • by maroberts (15852) on Thursday February 15 2001, @09:18AM (#429073) Homepage Journal
    Interesting idea, but I think you could also make a strong analogy to the effect of Microsoft on software development, variety and innovation.
    Lets consider the main applications; before Microsoft gave us Office there were numerous spreadsheets and word processors in widespread use out there. However, because of some Microsoft undocumented Windows functions, they've managed to take over virtually the entire software Wild West and innovation is stifled by the simple fact that MS either buys out, balks or produces a rival product to anything innovative. As examples I give you: "DOS ain't done till Lotus won't run!", Doublespace, IE v Netscape, DR-DOS, and many more.

    Innovation does occur in Open Source, and staking a claim as you put it is a very competitive business. Unless you produce top quality innovative code, your co-programmers will clobber your claim area with something more innovative and better.

    I think conversely that there is little incentive nowadays to innovate in the MS world, since if your product is really good the 800lb gorilla is going to jump on it one way or the other....
  • Closed Source - Subscription Payments by hound3000 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:18AM
  • by bughunter (10093) on Thursday February 15 2001, @09:18AM (#429075) Homepage
    It's here: Doublespeak. It's finally arrived, courtesy of Redmond's marketing and advertising. MS has mastered the tactic of speaking the opposite of the truth, and using that to sell...

    Just last night I saw a commercial for MS Server software, bragging about how it was so stable, no humans needed to maintain the servers. Hah! In my experience, it's the most fragile and least secure server out there.

    And now this. Microsoft has redefined the word "innovation" to mean "mimicing our competition and driving them out of business" -- by "stifling competition," they mean OSS is unstoppable because it's not a business, there's no profit or shareholders to threaten, it's an ideal, a practice. A practice that they can't embrace because it's too foreign to their proprietary mindset.

    What's next? Cages with rats attached to our faces?

  • microsoft officially out to lunch by gilez (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:19AM
  • According to this article at The Register:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/16933.htm l

    Windows XP will itself destroy protected audio and video files that do not "authenticate" with the sound and/or video cards.

    Take Allchin's statement, alter it to this:

    "I'm a Corporatist, I believe in the Corporate Way,'' he said. 'I worry if the government encourages open source, and I don't think we've done enough education of policy makers to understand the threat."

    Without Free and Open Source Software, there is no counter to the power of the corporations to control the computer the way they now control TV, radio (about to get even tighter in the digital age), newspapers, etc.

    Microsoft's attitudes and despotism in forcing `Doze users to accept that level of unrestricted third control over their own property, will only serve to further our cause.

    I never did upgrade to 2000, though I do have a dual boot Red Hat/Doze ME machine for gaming. I certainly will never allow Windows XP (XP which seems to stand for "corporate control eXPeriment") anywhere near any of my machines, especially now that I have broadband.
  • Re:Great quote by rynelm (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:20AM
  • Re:Funny quote by Brazilian Geek (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:20AM
  • Now this is significant... by scottyboy (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:20AM
  • IBM doesn't seem to agree... by Richard Steiner (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:20AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by NineNine (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by onepoint (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM
  • Gee! Thanks, Jim! by Keith Russell (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM
  • Undermining intellectual property. by aap (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM
  • by technos (73414) on Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM (#429086) Homepage Journal
    If this happens, there is no money to pay programmers. As a result, intelligent people such as myself, who could command 6 figure salaries in any profession will take different career paths.

    With fewer programmers, the result will be less innovation and worse software.

    Furthermore, universities, etc. won't be able to afford to run computing courses,


    Hooey, all of it. If indeed you were an intelligent person perhaps you'd have a better grasp of service based economies.

    This is really simplifying it, but.

    There is $(x) amount in the pool, and a fixed demand. In the current system, where one purchases a software product, there is $(x-y) actually going to the programmers, where y is dictated by the amount of profit the software companies make.

    Now in an open model, where the software is free and customizable but there is no support, there is still $(x) and the same number of 'sales', but that $(x) is paid directly to the programmers, support techs, etc, by way of salary. In addition, there is a higher demand for said programmers.
  • software BUSINESS by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM
  • In related news... by p3d0 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM
  • Read more carefully by goodmike (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by ethereal (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM
  • Re:really? by ibpooks (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:21AM
  • Reap what has been sewn. by Greg@RageNet (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:22AM
  • here's an interesting game to play: by prisoner (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:22AM
  • by Anoriymous Coward (257749) on Thursday February 15 2001, @09:22AM (#429094) Journal
    [*] offer only applies to corporations. Individuals need not apply.
  • Re:Open Source is a Faith Based Organization! by leperjuice (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:22AM
  • More FUD please! by EvilAlien (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:22AM
  • They should know by dubl-u (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:22AM
  • They did build something great once... by TWX_the_Linux_Zealot (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:22AM
  • hey now by Dr. Awktagon (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:22AM
  • Re:The Red Scare!!! by geomon (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:23AM
  • Alternative Headline by n8ur (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:23AM
  • Re:The American way? by alpinist (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:23AM
  • Everyone seems to be laughing but... by Sterling Anderson (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:23AM
  • Re:Government lobbying worries me... by jck2000 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:23AM
  • Open Source is Freedom and Liberty! by shiftyrich (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:24AM
  • well... by jdwilso2 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:24AM
  • Augh. This is awful. by spaanoft (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:24AM
  • I've been expecting this for a while, haven't you? by Alan (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:24AM
  • Focus on Programming, not Policy Making by The_Sock (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:25AM
  • Of course he's wrong ... by taniwha (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:25AM
  • by brassrat77 (9533) on Thursday February 15 2001, @09:25AM (#429111)
    The reporter seems to have mixed up "freely distributed" (free beer) with "open source" (source code available) with public domain ("no one owns it"). When of course Linux and most open source programs do have an owner; the owner has simply chosen to license their intellectual property in this way and be compensated for it in some way other than selling licenses to use the binary.

    But it does suggest a likely way for Microsoft (and others) to attack Linux and other open source alternatives through the US legal system:

    1. "free" (as in beer) distribution of IP is bad. (example: movies and music) [and please ignore the hypocrisy of M$ objecting to the free licensing of software by anyone other than M$]
    2. Linux is "free" (as in open AND beer) and is developed by many of the same people doing (1). [and please ignore the further inconsistancies in our argument]
    3. Therefore, Linux in particular and open source software in general aid and abet illegal activities. Government action to control this is necessary [ignore the flaws in this argument, I'm sure it can be artfully presented]

    Another tack would be to sneak language into various spending bills requiring government IT departments to only acquire software that just happens to be rule out use of open source/linux/... Such regulations exist (Posix certficiation, for example), but don't always get enforced.

    Although M$'s record lobbying has been poor, they do eventually get things right. And their logical allies (MPAA, RIAA, ...) **KNOW** how to lobby.

    should be interesting....

  • Microsoft uses BSD-developed tools in NT by SoupIsGood Food (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:26AM
  • Freedom of expression by Tiger Smile (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:26AM
  • I predicted this by taustin (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:26AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by SnatMandu (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:26AM
  • Re:how can open source stifle by sxpert (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:51AM
  • Fact mirroring fiction ??? by Salsaman (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:51AM
  • Re:Speaking of english... by DGolden (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:51AM
  • Re:The American Way? by Bastian (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:52AM
  • by Breace (33955) on Thursday February 15 2001, @09:26AM (#429120) Homepage
    I like this quote:
    Microsoft distributes some of its programs without charge to customers

    Yeah, and exactly WHEN did it start doing that? Did they distribute any significant software for free before Netscape?

    Even the development tools where a pain in the ass to get your hands on before then, like the DDK for which you needed to be an MSDN subscriber to get it.

    Breace.
  • Re:Open Source stifles innovation - is this true ? by The_Real_mlf (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:52AM
  • Re:This should be interesting, in MS' appeal... by XMyth (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:52AM
  • by bughunter (10093) on Thursday February 15 2001, @09:27AM (#429123) Homepage
    Amen, brother!

    The idiocy of the concept of Corporation As Person needs to be exposed more to the average citizen. Few people today realize that it's the root of all our political and social problems. Rights and privileges no longer belong to the individual citizen, because these corporate "persons" have usurped the roles reserved for individual persons by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. And corporations are motivated by one thing, and one thing only: Maximum Profits.

    It used to be, in the 17th and 18th century, that in order to acheive corporate status, an organization had to demonstrate that it operated in the public good. And there was no rights to the corporation itself, just a limitation of liability to the officers and exectuives in exchange for their service in the public interest. But somehow this got twisted and tortured into an entity with rights and privileges surpassing that of any entity mentioned in the Consitution. It's wrong and that needs to be exposed.

    It's ruining our country. It's ruining the world.

  • I was just kidding!!! by greysky (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:52AM
  • by -kyz (225372) on Thursday February 15 2001, @09:27AM (#429125) Homepage
    Look, I know this is a troll, but it's always good to have a straw man to crush:

    The ultimate goal of Open Source is free software. Now this means that you don't pay anything for it.

    This is but one of the freedoms that Free Software (not Open Source) brings. However, many people in this world, myself included, are delighted to pay for software even when it's free. It's called 'morality', and if an author would like a gift in exchange for his dedication, I'm happy to offer one. The greater good in this scenario is not that the individual programmer is richer, but that the whole community is enriched by the new, free software.

    If this happens, there is no money to pay programmers. As a result, intelligent people such as myself, who could command 6 figure salaries in any profession will take different career paths.

    That's utter tosh. Yes, I know you're a troll. However, innovative companies such as Cygnus Solutions make large profits and employ full time programmers simply to work on free software! The software is costly to initially create and maintain, but once a single copy exists, every other copy is free. Companies like Microsoft are backwards! They charge nothing to their customers for the expense of creation and maintainence, but charge full whack for the part that's completely free - making copies! Why should it cost more to have 1000 licenses of NT workstation than to have 10? It's exactly the same software on each workstation, duplicated at zero cost.

    Finally, you might want to look at this essay on motivation [gnu.org]. I personally expect to get paid for working on proprietary customer solutions at work, but all the programming I do outside work is for Free, in all senses of the word. By doing that, I'm adding value to the software community. I also think it's fair, given how much I rely on other Free programs.

    Furthermore, the evidence is that open source does not tend to produce new innovation. For example, desktops such as KDE are based on older products from Apple and MS. When open source is the only thing remaining, innovation will obviously be reduced.

    Yes, I know this is still a troll, but currently with things like GNOME, most of the innovation is in the programming APIs and code implementations - the actual user interface is neglected, programmers are just happy to leave it looking like existing interfaces because they're not UI experts, and they at least want the user to be instantly familiar, even if they do just steal layouts (such as M$ does heavily, eg Start button vs Apple menu). Personally, if I were to come up an innovative compression method, the user would not care. All he would care is that my program had the same user interface as zip, otherwise he'd say "it compresses much better, but it's a bitch to use!"
  • Less people needed to innovate in open source by Dukhat (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:27AM
  • Re:Funny quote by pohl (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:27AM
  • MS: "I think I can, I think I can..." by sheetsda (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:27AM
  • Who's next after Corel? by MoobY (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:27AM
  • A telling quote! by Monte (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:27AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by donutello (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:52AM
  • OSS and Napster by reimero (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:52AM
  • I find it interesting... by cascadefx (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:52AM
  • Best quote out of the article by powerlord (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:53AM
  • by Alien54 (180860) on Thursday February 15 2001, @09:53AM (#429135) Journal
    Greed is good.
    Therefore Free is Bad(tm)
    The freedom to share freely what I create because I want to is Bad.
    The freedom to give is bad.

    THEREFORE

    Slavery is the goal of human happiness, especially when everyone else is the slave.

    Outlaw Christmas.

    [/sarcasm]

    Some people just cannot see the fundamental results of the flaws in their philosophy.

    Blindspots like this = justifying the crimes they have commited, that they are planning to commit, or wish they could commit.

    feh

    The freedom of the world is not dependant on everyone becoming a microserf. But microsoft's wealth is. they must grow, or die. And to heck with who they stomp on to get their way.

    I make obscene noises in their general direction

  • MS Support is a joke by droolfool (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:28AM
  • M$ PR Spin by macdaddy (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:53AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by srpayne (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:28AM
  • M$ vs. Open-Source by Phalse Impressions (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:53AM
  • We, The People? by swv3752 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:29AM
  • Microsoft Innovates by Cranston Snord (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:54AM
  • Open Source is evil? by iomud (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:29AM
  • Eh? by Dr_Bones (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:29AM
  • I'm Canadian, who should I blame? by kutulu42 (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:29AM
  • This is not funny! by geomon (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:30AM
  • "Threatening the Business" by Pope Slackman (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:54AM
  • Re:In some ways, it does by DGolden (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:54AM
  • Re:Where in that article does it say... by SnatMandu (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:54AM
  • yet another solution to "free" confusion by LinuxParanoid (Score:2) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:55AM
  • Re:Like elections by Faulty Dreamer (Score:1) Thursday February 15 2001, @09:55AM
  • Convince, Confuse and Corrupt