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Techies Rampant on Drugs
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon Oct 02, 2000 08:39 AM
from the don't-I-wish dept.
from the don't-I-wish dept.
Several folks noted this story running on the LA Times which talks about techie running rampant on drugs. Compares dot commers to the Wall Street druggies in the eighties. Fairly bleak picture actually. Personally I don't have time for anything more then whiskey (and even that seems to occur less and less as I get older).
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Techies Rampant on Drugs
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Drugs? who needs drugs? (Score:4)
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Re:Coke is just a money thing, how bout the ganj? (Score:3)
Re:Bah! Regional nonsense... (Score:3)
Eric
Re:no drugs... (Score:5)
Drug testing doesn't show current impairment. What I did last friday night, on my free time, when my pager was off, is MY TIME. It is not my employers time. They have NO RIGHT to criticize how I spend that time.
My drug use is between me and my doctor (who BTW has never raised any objections to pot smoking - and yes, he knows). If my employer can't respect my right to live the lifestyle which I choose to live, whatever it may be, then that means that they do not respect me as an adult member of society.
I refuse to work for an employer that can't respect that my time is MY TIME.
The places that I, and people I know, work (which, for me, includes a hospital) have the following policy (in my words):
"We will drug test, if we believe that a person has been using drugs ON THE JOB"
Other than that they don't test. When it comes to suspecting current impairment, during working hours, I am all for making sure people arn't high. But again - testing doesn't show current impairment. It shows evidence of use within the past 3-30 days (depending on the drug).
Techies turn to Uncle Espresso for Relief (Score:5)
dotcomtelecom.com! world headquarters (AP): Every morning, Bart Flanders rolls out of bed, throws on some clothes, and goes to work. Sixteen hours later, he is still there, finishing a major project for his company, dotcomtelecom.com!. He has worked for six days straight on this schedule and, nearly consumed by exhaustion and stress, now has a choice.
"I've been drug free for all of my life," Bart says, pacing outside his office building. A green sign across the street catches his eye. "The product has to ship tomorrow. Our investors will be there for the rollout. If I can just pull one more all-nighter, we can do this. Everyone else on my team is doing it." He pauses, and a weary smile crosses his face. "Wow, I never thought I'd actually say that. It's so, like, just like an after school special. I guess this is how junkies get started."
For all too many programmers, Bart's dillema is a familiar one. Known on the street as 'joe', 'code juice' and 'venti', use of coffee is increasingly prevalent among the programming digiterati. And experts are alarmed by its rapid gains among the road crews of our nation's cyber-highway.
"Cocaine and binge drinking have always been pretty standard among the CEOs. And LSD and marijuana are pretty much job requirements in marketting. We in Vice are used to cruising through a startup on tuesdays and thursdays, busting half the company or more," Lt. Chuck Wagner reports. He leads the 'Internet Startup Division' of the Los Gatos police department. "What's got us worried are these techie guys. I mean, I can understand a CEO needing a few lines to unwind with two of his girlfriends after a hard day. I mean these guys have stressful lives, what with being proactive and all that. But why would a mere techie be doing joe? We're watching them-- we know they're not partying. So what are they doing with their time? That's the big mystery."
Techies, as they are fondly known by their pals in marketting, are the socially dysfunctional experts who provide internet startups with valuable mockups and beta copies to show to investors. These computer geniuses are valued employees, and are carefully shielded from such terrible messes as senior staff meetings, strategy sessions and promotions.
"I don't understand it at all," confides Laura Graham, VP of operations for dotcomtelecom.com!. "I mean, we don't let these guys make any decisions whatsoever. They don't have to go to conferences, parties, etc. And I don't let them anywhere near the wild, hallucenigenic orgies which I am rumored to host. All we ask in return is that they ship a product with wildly varying requirements within hours of the unrealistic deadline we promised to the venture capital firm which is just trying to test the waters before investing in our competitor. I mean, how hard is that? It isn't like they are adaptivating, or strategizing, or playing golf. We let them play on the magic glass boxes, and we talk about the magical wonderland which is javaembeddedinternetconnectedfutureVR-TML 5.0."
"Laura just doesn't get it," Bart says with a shrug. "We're trying to create a more secure ecommerce model, and she's telling us to do it in Virtual Reality. She hasn't even been to work in two weeks." Bart is still tempted by the green sign across the street. It should be easier in his cubicle, where there are no distracting windows, but there, the smell of espresso is strong.
"It boils down to this: I have a job to do, and x hours to do it in. Without some joe, I won't be able to finish. You tell me what I need to do. I know the risks. I've lost good friends to coffee. I've seen the desperation, the shakes, the demented ravings of people crashing after a two day high. I know people who have two hundred dollar a week habits, and that's not counting cream and sugar. I've heard the cries of pain and anguish from the men's restroom. But I have to do this. Just this once."
Bart returns to his desk a few minutes later, with a paper cup and a sharp, edgy expression. On his desk is a bag with enough pure, uncut joe to last nearly a week. Its street value is at least $50.
"I know what this looks like. But I'm not a junkie. Once we've shipped our product, I'm throwing this out. It's only this once." Bart's expression turns plaintive; he fortifies himself with another sip. "You don't think I'm going to be an addict now, do you? I don't want to die."
The Dissociated Press Contributed to this report.
Re:What a load of crap (Score:3)
Actually, "regular" in this context means someone who performs an action on a fixed basis. Your confusion seems to lie in the fact that you think I'm saying regular == normal.
Oh really? Out of the three chemicals that you mention, nicotene is the most addictive, and even then a single hit won't get you addicted. Mild use without addiction can be acheived for all of these drugs. The myth of instant addiction is just that, a myth. Some drugs are more addictive than others sure, but there is no "take it once, you're doomed to be an addict" truth as you say.
And hence my point. Can you point me to the paragraph in the article that has the myth about "take once, you're doomed to be an addict"? If they want to use it enough, eventually they will have to. Don't assume that everyone is taking drugs as "responsible" as you are.
Re:What a load of crap (Score:3)
Another "regular drug user" who tries to speak for the "underground drug use" masses. A pretty good sign is usually opinions such as "Most of the people I know" or "I can confidently state" that are tried to be spun as facts.
Almost all people fall into the category of users - they might take a hell of a lot, but it's because they want to, not because they have to.
And you might want to know that addictive substances such as nicotine, heroin, and cocaine leads users to become abusers, because they eventually have to use it.
The parent post is no different than posts which whine about Linux's lack of unified GUI overhyped because everyone he knows (and himself, as a "regular Linux user") only uses the command-line. The dot-com world these days demand high hours, and with their pretty high disposable income, why isn't it suprising that drug use is on the rise? No one is saying that drug use isn't prevalent across other industries. They're simply pointing out that drug use is increasing in the tech sector.
As you can probably tell I'm sick of these scare stories taking a complete non-event and trying to turn them into news.
Yo yoyoyo G, thanks for the insight from the underground. Wanna go light a K bud?
Re:I'm surprised they just realized this now (Score:3)
between 1996 and 1997 I went from putting a half inch of grounds into the bottom of my 1L Bodum french press, to putting in about 1.5 inches (couldn't get the damn plunger down!) and doing a pound of Kona espresso a week. I worked 16 to 18 hour days, ate taco bell 7 layer burritos (because I could eat them fast while working) slept fitfully and dried out by sleeping in (fitfully) until noon on Saturdays. I accumulated enough unused vacation to vanish for over 2 months, but couldn't find the time to take it, with the workload.
In early '97 I finally took a few days off, flew out west and dried out. As the caffeine left my system and I realized what I had been doing and allowed done to me I knew it was time to find a new job and leave the chemical dependency behind.
I'm back on espresso these days, but in very small doses. If I feel like I've got electric current running through me, then I drink a lot of water and use less grounds the next day.
Having tried to code after a few beers I've found the ability to track logic effectively makes it far more frustrating than sober, and certainly not a fun thing. More fun to play video games drunk. IMHO coding procedes much faster and with fewer errors when done in 8 hours (with a few breaks) and when well rested.
--
Chief Frog Inspector
What are you talking about? (Score:3)
there's no such thing as a 'user' of cocaine or any of the other hard-core drugs mentioned in the article, with the exception of prescription drugs. if you've progressed to the point that your conception of acceptable use includes these drugs, then chances are, you already have a problem.
Hello? Have you ever tried coke? Sure, it's damn nice and you do get the urge for some more, but it's no more than the urge you get to drink more when you've had a few. I've done coke quite a few times, and I've never felt some mad craving to rush out and get some more. I treat coke as a "party drug" for special occasions only. Hell, I haven't had any since Christmas, and it's not because I couldn't get/afford it.
You seem to have fallen under the propaganda spread by people like Barry McCaffrey (America's anti-drug main man) that drugs like cocaine, crack and heroin are instantly addictive and that casual use is impossible. This is nonsense in the same vein that "Reefer madness" was. Sure, they are addictive, but not to the point where a single hit makes you an abuser.
But the sinister allure of these drugs is that you are in control of them. Make no mistake--you aren't. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but with continued use, one day--these drugs will assert themselves over you and you'll have to acknowledge who's the boss.
The reason I got started with the problem was that I started doing it every day. This was because I had a lot of work at the time, and the speed helped me get it done. But I still take the stuff now, just sensibly when I'm going out or something. I'm not going to make the same mistake, there's no hidden catch that will turn me back into a speed freak six months down the line.
Re:What a load of crap (Score:4)
I agree with your assessment of the article. I disagree with your assessment of the situation. Your assessment largely sounds like a web of rationalization and self-justification. It has about as much hard data behind it as the news report does.
They aren't trying to portray it as a den of burnt out addicts. They're trying to portray it as a place where extreme pressure drives people to drug use in an attempt to cope. Big difference. One isn't credible, one is.
I've seen the kind of stress people go through in those companies. I have friends who work in a few of them. Horrible, I would never move there to work. It doesn't surprise me that people turn to meth to try to give themselves the ability to put in the hours and concentration needed.
But doing that is like having an incredibly high burn rate for your VC money. Someday, your body is going to give out.
I think news of someone dying because they chose a stupid coping mechanism and abused it is news that should be heard. Perhaps not without all the references to the word 'fast' and the subtle implication that stricter drug laws and mandatory testing were somehow a good idea. But it serves as a good warning that some people like you might actually heed.
Re:What a load of crap (Score:4)
Notice his use of words like 'leads' and 'eventually'.
You are right. I've never heard of anyone being 'instantly addicted' after a single use of any substance. But that didn't sound like what he was saying.
>Mild use without addiction can be acheived for all of these drugs.
How would define 'mild use'? Once a week, month? My experiences with addictive substances were that I started out with casual use and eventually, as my use became more frequent, found myself hooked. Hard.
What he said was true for me. Casual, recreational use of some of these drugs lead to abuse and addiction. It happened gradually, but I did reach a point where I _had_ to keep dosing myself because I had become addicted. Quitting was the hardest thing I ever did.
I'm sure that different people have different propensity to addiction. I knew a lot of guys that went to the same parties and didn't seem to reach the same level of abuse that I and some of my close friends did. I don't know what made us different.
One guy in particular really screwed up and landed in prison as a result of his spiraling down into addiction and crime. Maybe he had other problems, I don't know, but it was enough to make me stop and see my own condition. This is probably what motivated me to change my behavior.
Now I am not condemning anyone who uses drugs or saying that using something is going to get you hooked and ruin your life. But there is a real danger of physical addiction to a lot of people and discounting addiction as a 'myth' is kind of denying reality.
Re:I don't know about Silicon Valley.. (Score:5)
> who smoke marijuana, but that's the extent of
> it. Those same friends are scared of the hard
> stuff, because they know what it'll do to you.
Ya know...assuming its clean drug (ie it wasn't produced in someones bathtub and contains lots of impurities - or wasn't cut with some nasty stuff) - and even somtimes when it isn't. Drugs themselves arn't that harmful.
Its abuse that causes harm. Or rather overuse. You can use heroin, and not become addicted. Same for caffeine, alcohol, coke, anything.
Drugs don't "make people stupid", they don't make you smart either. Even the VERY FEW drugs like alcohol, MDMA, PCP, etc which are known to "kill brain cells" well the brain is redundant as hell. Only the most biased and conflicted of interest studies have ever shown measurable cognitive deficit.
The real trap is when you start using drugs all the time to the exclusion of other activities. Stop going to school. Stop having fun in other ways, start to feel you need the drug.
There are people who can maintain themselves and monitor their usage (much the way a scuba diver monitors the air in his tank, or a sky diver watches the altimeter), there are many who can't.
There are some people (I have known some) who will quit drugs, and then become just as addicted and allow their lives to be just as controlled by other things, like a church, or a woman.
As someone I know said "The high incidence of drug users who are losers is not because drugs make them loser, but rather, if your already a loser, you might as well be a high loser".
As for Heroin, valium and alcohol being a bad mix. Thats what harm reduction is all about. Teaching people enough information to use their drugs safely. Afterall, even among the more intelligent users, MOSt will never research their drugs first, unless the info is handed to them.
Well SOMEONE is smoking crack... (Score:3)
META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="UpsideToday, Upside magazine, Internet business, ebusiness, b2b, b-to-b, stock quotes, ipo, stock market, technology, high tech, venture capital, vc, e-commerce, funding, investing, ceo, Bill Gates"
Anytime I read something like that I know there's drug use involved. Let's also look at this sentence from the LA times article:
Two women slinked off to the bathroom and found a quiet corner, away from the harsh fluorescent light. As one woman pulled out a compact and checked her lipstick, the other withdrew from her purse a bullet-shaped vial. Sliding the top to one side, she tapped out a small mound of white powder onto her fingertip, lifted it to her nose and inhaled quickly.
Again, someone is on the crack rock, and it ain't the programmers.
What I learned from this article: Yes, journalists still smoke the crack rock. Yes, the e-business craze was driven by MBA's who smoked the crack rock.
Programmers are sticking to mountain dew and routing around failure of all kinds.
Now maybe if we could hide Katz's stash from him for a couple weeks, we could see him WIG OUT!
Re:BAD REPORTING: No Wise County, NC (Score:3)
I just went to this site [state.nc.us]. Notice the "Select by County" option. There's a Wilkes County, and a Wilson County, but no "Wise County".
Drug use in the computer industry... (Score:5)
How many times have you been looking at old code and thought "What were they smoking when they wrote this?"
dot-com != geek (Score:3)
Drug use isn't endemic to our geeks. It is endemic to 26-year olds, especially rich ones, and (alas) we often work at the same place.
Re:That's what ticks me off (Score:3)
Blatant falsehood!! Studies have shown that smoking 15 thousand joints or more in an hour will result in recieving a FATAL dose! So please, everyone limit your Marijuanna consumption to LESS THAN 15 thousand joints per hour!!!
Kintanon
Coke is just a money thing, how bout the ganj? (Score:3)
Coke has been following money around for years. As someone put it, "Coke is God's way of telling you that you have too much money." Anywhere that you see millionaires pop up quickly, you can bet that they are doing coke. Granted, coke is generally a dumb thing to do (I still won't try it), but it isnt quite as dumb as the US government plays it out to be. You get the same stimulant (dopamine) high from coke without the depressent effects (GABA) of alcohol. I can understand how the big-ego party culture can easily make the switch from alcohol to coke, spiking the stimulant effect and getting rid of hangovers and the like (excluding withdrawal issues).
I think a more interesting and underground issue is the relationship (if existing) between techies and dope. I have seen tons of very intelligent people spend a few days coding and then getting stoned, only to wake up the next morning and code some more. Anyone see the same effect?
Econ 101: Lots of money, little leisure time (Score:4)
A nasty little side effect is drug use.
Yeah, that's right. The 80s Streeters were highly paid, but didn't have a lot of time to relax or have a good time. They gave up their leisure time for more and more money.
Drug use can enhance the quality of leisure time at the expense, of course, of quality of other time. But the leisure windows were so short that the down-time from drug use normally overlapped with stressful labor hours. And drug side effects, at least in the beginning, could be passed off as stress related uckfups. ("Uckfups," of course, is a highly-technical economic term.)
In short, this is a utilitarian trade-off. The marginal utility of a dollar is low. The marginal utility of leisure time is high. Using the former to enhance the latter is good, but only for a few months at best. After that, you turn into a quivering glob of uckfup.
BAD REPORTING: No Wise County, NC (Score:5)
There is no Wise County, NC. There are no such records in the local news in the Research Triangle Area of NC.
What editor let this piece of poorly researched crap see ink?
Doh... (Score:4)
Yupp, 55% of all coders are addicted to coke...
The other 45% prefer Mountain Dew...
Re:BAD REPORTING: No Wise County, NC (Score:3)
wise county, texas may be a different story (and according to my texas journalist brother-in-law) might well match the stats
btw i teach journalism at the university of north carolina just beside the research triangle park
Yes, but... (Score:3)
Being Smart (Score:4)
The majority of people seem to think that there is no inbetween when it comes to drugs, either you're a straight-edged proper member of society or else you're a no-good junkie. I'm not suggesting that everyone go out and do drugs, but what's the big deal?
It seems that no-one really wants to talk about drugs from a neutral point of view. Most people either side with the government "Reefer Madness and War on Drugs" point of view or else they are uninformed pro-drugs zealots using only the facts they like to hear.
Don't bring the same old song and dance to the table, we know the creed of the war on drugs so well now that most people who would consider using drugs realize that it is only a propanganda assault and that it doesn't really explain WHY people shouldn't use drugs.
No one ever says they want to be a junkie when they grow up - and I don't think anyone ever says they want to be a theoretical physicist either.
Re:NY Times Story about this (Score:5)
Then there was the drug culture of the 50s, of course that was legal; Cary Grant was very public about the fact that he used LSD over 100.
Then of course there was thr 40s and the 30s...and who can forget the roaring 20s.
Drug use has gone on since the dawn of time. Humans (and yes, even some other animals) have been using drugs forever. Hell... bars are just another form of a "Drug den".
A recent study showed that students who graduate from the DARE program are more liklely to use drugs than kids who don't. We just need, as a culture, to face the fact that drugs are interesting, and no amount of "drugs are bad m'kay" is going to change that.
In every community there will always be drug use. Its not a problem, its a reality. It is part of human nature. It is something that just must be accepted. To fight it is to make it worst, its like struggling against quicksand.